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Juan,

I get hooted down all the time!

I say "Let them hoot!"

Cheers

Will

Dear all. Hi this is my first post to this excellent list (I usually frequent Classical guitar lists and recognize some regulars here - Bob-H and Ron-B at the least).
I'm a big fan of George Benson (I own a GB-200 signature Ibanez amongst other jazz guitars) and i'm wondering who list members consider to be the players carrying forward the Montgomery/ Benson lineage/ style in the modern era?

BTW, in the classical idiom of which i am a published composer, i have a piece published and regularly performed which is a homage to GB called 'Beyond Horizons'. It's the title track of the following album:-




... and published here:-




Best regards, Mark
PS is GB by any chance a member of this list?? If so THANKYOU George for the music!

Last year I saw a s/h Kimbara classical and bought it for
just ?70 because I thought it had a great tone. My research showed that
Kimbara actually never made anything but re-badged other makes and that
mine was probably made in Japan in the 1970s by an Ibanez subsidiary.
It outplays my Rodriguez and my Admira.

In all things I often ignore the brand and check out the individual
item.

Will

Bobby,
What I object to is the way over the top responses to the current paradigm. Mr. Simmons does not come across as a sympathetic figure in any way shape or form. I don't have the quotes in front of me, but his threats are simply heinous. Also someone mentioned that the daughters of the pirates should be raped, disgraced, and sent home in shame. This is just so out of context as to be shameful in itself!
Jim

Hi Angelo,
I saw this coming, and I'm going to try to respond, but you and I are
not going to see eye to eye on this ever, so read at your own discretion.

On 10/18/2010 6:14 PM, Angelo wrote:

It's definitely the point. He is only interested in publicity for himself.
Isn't this the guy who had a reality show? He's a publicity hound and
that's
why he's getting involved. He smells a buck. Nobody wants his music. They
don't even steal it and probably wouldn't take it if he gave it away for
nothing......
Yet, you give him "hero" props... smh

Well, somebody must like their music because they've sold multiple
millions of records, and they still perform to large, packed venues. If
his greed for publicity is his motive, so what? At least he's doing
something, and he's got the soapbox (and legal fees) in which to do it.

And the biggest thieves are the recording industry....

Ya know, I keep hearing this. Why izzit that now that they are being
done away with, nobody is making money anymore. Great, ya got a grammy
for your youtube video, now how are ya gonna pay the rent?

In previous posts, I was all over the record companies, ASCAP, the
Union, &c - all of them, for not properly representing the interests of
their rosters. In short, they gave the store away. But the billions that
the whole industry is now losing to pirates far overshadows any problems
the industry encountered in the past.

So what? It means they have figured out how to make money without

suing and
prosecuting people. They are rich. I don't feel sorry for them...

You don't think they sue? What planet are you living on? These guys are
serious businessmen, and thinking they don't steal from eachother and
sue eachother is about as naive as one can get. Hell, they shoot
eachother...

What I see is that you and others here are giving the record company

pimps
a free ride as to their complicity in this... They refuse to take less
profit and look into new models of sale. How is it that Apple is making a
small fortune from iTunes? Couldn't the record company come up with a new
model? Instead, they take the war on drugs model of prosecuting the end
user. We all know how successful that was (is)..

Apple is making a fortune with ITunes by being in the forefront of
having not paid royalties where due. And even when they do pay, the
scale for the artist is worse than any deal ever cut with a record
company, including record clubs.

I'm repeating the same advice I gave to the dinosaurs, "Adapt, or die"...

I believe that, Angelo. I guess they just refused to listen.

Dave has defended his publishing company right

into the ground. Is that enough for you?

No, it's not. Are you telling me thousands of people are pirating
copies of
"Try A Little Tenderness?" .I'm not sure who he is defending the company
against..

A quick search of the tune on Youtube just yielded:

About *1,420* results

Multiply this number by the number of hits each one of those gets
worldwide, and tell me if you think that the product is worth trying to
protect.

My point is that it's the large corporations, the same ones who have
marketed good music out of the picture, who are "suffering" because of
piracy - and over-priced product. $20 for a Kiss cd??? Gag!

Your point is off target. You're just too cheap to buy records.

I have bought thousands of records, CD, and DVD's over my lifetime.

I don't

buy them now because they are junk and only have one tune worth

listening

per item. Not a good enough ratio for me..>

Just about every tune on the older jazz and even pop albums was enjoyable.
That can't be said for the trash the record company execs create these
days.. They're not even worth stealing.. Not to me, anyway...

You mean you bought them back when you told the dinosaurs to adapt or
die. Your defense of thieves, whether or not you personally either like
or buy the records is really the point. Is it that you truly are jealous
of musicians who manage to succeed, or that if you don't like it, then
it's ok if someone steals it?

The Teachers Union in NY sucks... but that's another thread.

No it's not. It's exactly the point. The Teachers union in NY is one of
the most powerful unions in the country. It has provided your raises,
your tenure, your medical benefits, your sick days, your vacations, your
livelihood, your security. And you have the audacity to say it sucks.
Just how well would you do on your own against, say, Michelle Rhee?

Musicians (even Gene Simmons, whether you like him or not) take
tremendous risks to be in the business at all. NYC teachers take none,
and have no concept of what it's like to be someone who has to It's why
most of them became public school teachers in the first place - for
security, benefits pension, &c. The musicians are not asking for raises,
pension, security, benefits, or any free ride. All they are asking for
in this is for their duly copyrighted materials to be protected by the
laws that are on the books and are supposed to protect them.

You, who have been all but breast-fed by the teachers Union, have a
problem with this because you think CDs are overpriced.

I also belonged to Local 802 which was an extension of the clubs. They
extorted money from musicians and did nothing to the clubs who were in
violations of the by-laws. Because the union was run by and the clubs were
owned by the same "Organization", the musicians were screwed...AND the
composers didn't get dick...

For better or worse, 802 is the only real game in town for musicians. It
ain't no AFTRA, and it certainly ain't no teacher's union, and it does
suck, as you say. But kicking out the legs from underneath it is not
going to solve anything. Musicians have to press them to finally get off
their asses and represent them properly. Hell, I can think of 3 lawyers
right off the top of my head who could take on this problem with
hundreds of lawsuits if the agencies which are supposed to represent
their clients would step up to the plate - but that would just piss you
off, because, of course, musicians are supposed to exist for your
convenience.

For you, of all people, to make these comments is callous and

hypocritical.

Yada, yada, yada.... ad hominum, as a last resort (or is that "retort"?)

always works... (i!) <--irony alert

That's a crap answer and you know it. I won't even address it.

"He who lives by the sword, etc..."

Exactly.

I don't sound like it right now, but I really do like you,
Bobby

I'm not on this earth to be liked :-)

Believe it,
Bobby

I missed the original post somehow, but here's a quick recommendation to get started learning who the greats are. Pick up "Progressions: 100 Years of Jazz Guitar", a 4 cd box set. Tip of the iceberg...and you can then follow up on whatever players move you most.

Jeff

Sure, lots of us know who the great players are and have been. In many ways I would like to have all that discovery in front of me that you have. ;-) You have countless hours of musical pleasure to absorb. I would just google "jazz guitar" and see all that comes up and when the same names keep popping up I would make it my responsibility to check them out. One great player leads to another. At one time I was thrilled to learn that there was great guitar playing before electric guitar. I have always loved "Pioneers of Jazz Guitar" on the Yazoo label. There are other compilations of the history of jazz guitar, but this is a real fun place to start. I wish you well on your journey. It is a steep path, but oh so rewarding. BTW, it is cool to use your real name here. Nobody is gonna try and take advantage of you.
Jim Mings

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "Palmer" <rivmuse2@...> wrote:

Okay. Here is an angle that just occurred to me and I don't know if anyone
has recognized it before. I've never heard it mentioned.

We all used to get FREE music all the time!

It was a little thing called RADIO!


All the young people we are bashing here (99% of downloading being done by
those under 25years of age) are just listening to their music the same as we
all used to.

Unfortunately you are missing a big chunk of the equation. The music was not free, the radio stations paid for it.

Radio stations bought licenses to broadcast the music:







In order to pay for the licenses the stations had to be financially viable either through listener sponsored, advertising or grant etc.
But the result was that musicians, performers, writers etc received royalties.

Today music is uploaded and "shared" on sites such as Youtube and file-lockers, such as rapid share, fileserve, and torrents.

No licenses are bought, the sites make money through advertising
and the traffic that the non-licensed music draws. The sites keep all the advertising dollars for themselves and the artists, musicians, performers, writers etc receive NO royalties.

--- In jazz_guitar@..., Angelo <angelo.nyc@...> wrote:

Don't most studio musicians get paid per session? So it wouldn't
really matter to them if the CD sold ten or ten million copies.

This was generally true in the USA but not the case in other countries. I have a number of royalty based session agreements
from recordings in the UK. See here:

I would like someone to explain to me how all this piracy is
affecting the average musician, who by the way, is probably not
paying composers for the right to play their tunes on gigs...

Venues are responsible for those payments, not musicians.
Any venue that plays music whether live or recorded or even the radio
is required to purchase a public performance license (this is not
the same as a cabaret license - some form of which is generally required for any live music). See, for example ASCAP:



For an overview of collection societies see here:

The beautiful theme from Barry Lyndon:

Jeff Beck - Mna na h'Eireann (The Women of Ireland)


John Amato
Isaiah 55:11

You can never go wrong with Jason Lollar's pickups. :)

I'll second that i got a johnny smith pu from jason it is great!
Best
Tony Hughes

At 05:53 PM 10/18/2010, Will wrote:

The point is that if you get an instrument with junk
pickups then any "upgrade" will sound better.

Some Epi pickups are poor whilst others I have replaced
were great and the Duncan upgrade was a waste of money.

I recently acquired two Epi pickups for just ?20 from a client
who wanted Duncans. I checked them all out and the Duncans were
no different at all. So, I now have two excellent pickups that
I got for a song which I will install in my Taurus semi. The Taurus
has DeMarzio pups fitted but the covers are rusty so the refit
is purely cosmetic.

I will put the DeMarzios on ebay where there is bound to be
some collector who is convinced that vintage DMs have a magic
tone.

The cheapest - and often most effective - upgrade is decent
heavy grade strings.

Will

I have some Alnico PAF-style pickups from an Epi
dot that are really decent, although wound a tad
hotter than my Gibson 57 classics.

At 11:39 AM 10/18/2010, Marc Leduc wrote:

And?...

;~)))

Score one for Marc.

love this group but. does anyone
know who the old players are?
that made jazz guitar?

That tinyurl is kraputski.
You can find Dave's Diminished 7th PDF at his home page

Ammo

The point is that if you get an instrument with junk
pickups then any "upgrade" will sound better.

Well, not exactly--or at least that's not the point I was making. The
stock Gibson P-90s certainly weren't junk. They sounded pretty good.
But the Lollars are head and shoulders better (and not simply
"different"), and were well worth the upgrade. By "better" I mean
richer, more defined tone and definition on each string. Much better
detail and bottom end. Much smoother highs. Just freakin' gorgeous,
basically.

I think you and I are interested in different tones, though. Maybe for
most jazz styles any decent pickup will do just fine, and changing
string gauges will improve one's jazz tone. But for the stuff I play,
upgrading pickups always makes a big difference. I also upgrade the
wiring and pots.

And you can do *a lot* better than DiMarzios, if that happens to be
your main reference point. I wouldn't call DiMarzios an upgrade over
any stock pickup--not really. I'm not knocking them, but the stuff I
put in my guitars (and what most guys like me put in their guitars) is
way better.

Jeff

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Will <will@...> wrote:

Some Epi pickups are poor whilst others I have replaced
were great and the Duncan upgrade was a waste of money.

Will,
I'm happy to see that there are people who still say, "whilst". I always
liked that word, but you'll not hear it here... pity. :-)

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Marc Leduc <marc.leduc@...> wrote:

Hey! Any sense of friendship on this forum! Nobody ask if I have removed
the
pups to see if they're actual Duncan 59s?

Marc, I'm getting the feeling that you're asking the wrong question...
I think it should be, "Does anybody care???" :-)

The cheapest - and often most effective - upgrade is decent
heavy grade strings.

Well, the cheapest & most effective upgrade is more practice.

But after that, a decent set of strings and properly done set up can help a lot. I just don't remember him saying what strings he had on it in the first place.

best,
Bob

Does anybody really want to steal Kiss' music??

Not the point. Gene Simmons has every right to try to protect the
business he is in and to spread that word to his fellow musicians in the
hope that they can benefit from those words. Personally, I think the
musicians have been (stupidly) silent about it for far too long.

It's definitely the point. He is only interested in publicity for himself.
Isn't this the guy who had a reality show? He's a publicity hound and that's
why he's getting involved. He smells a buck. Nobody wants his music. They
don't even steal it and probably wouldn't take it if he gave it away for
nothing......
Yet, you give him "hero" props... smh

Most of the piracy of music is of the current teen musical
heartthrobs...not
old has-been jazz players.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me that the entirety of the
music business, throughout every genre, has been hijacked by thieves.

And the biggest thieves are the recording industry. They rape the
entertainers, who go along with it because they are so addled by the smell
of fame, they'd do anything for it... Pimps and whores, but I don't mean
that in a bad way.

I don't see Puff Daddy, or Jay-Z going around in rags and driving
Pintos...

And they don't see you driving around in a new Jag. So what? I already
made the comment that these guys are some of the few non-fools left in
the business, and that is sad, considering they aren't even musicians.

So what? It means they have figured out how to make money without suing and

prosecuting people. They are rich. I don't feel sorry for them...

Don't most studio musicians get paid per session? So it wouldn't really
matter to them if the CD sold ten or ten million copies.

This whole problem has "pin action". As it gets less and less rewarding
(or even possible) to make and promote recordings, every person in the
industry is affected. You are a smart guy, Angelo - how is it you don't
see that?

What I see is that you and others here are giving the record company pimps

a free ride as to their complicity in this... They refuse to take less
profit and look into new models of sale. How is it that Apple is making a
small fortune from iTunes? Couldn't the record company come up with a new
model? Instead, they take the war on drugs model of prosecuting the end
user. We all know how successful that was (is)..
I'm repeating the same advice I gave to the dinosaurs, "Adapt, or die"...

Has anyone on this list written a top-ten tune and hasn't been
sufficiently rewarded?

Again, not the point, but Dave has defended his publishing company right
into the ground. Is that enough for you?

No, it's not. Are you telling me thousands of people are pirating copies of
"Try A Little Tenderness?" .I'm not sure who he is defending the company
against..

My point is that it's the large corporations, the same ones who have
marketed good music out of the picture, who are "suffering" because of
piracy - and over-priced product. $20 for a Kiss cd??? Gag!

Your point is off target. You're just too cheap to buy records.

I have bought thousands of records, CD, and DVD's over my lifetime. I don't
buy them now because they are junk and only have one tune worth listening
per item. Not a good enough ratio for me...

Just about every tune on the older jazz and even pop albums was enjoyable.
That can't be said for the trash the record company execs create these
days.. They're not even worth stealing.. Not to me, anyway...

I would like someone to explain to me how all this piracy is affecting

the

average musician, who by the way, is probably not paying composers for

the

right to play their tunes on gigs...

It's the music establishments who pay for the music played in their
clubs. Or at least that's what it USED to be. Everybody made a buck,
everybody was happy. Angelo, I know that you are (or were?) a school
teacher. You had a Union to defend you every step of the way, and
without it you would have made around $6000 per year, and without any
benefits forever. If the Social Studies teacher is treated unfairly, the
Phys Ed teacher is right there to stand on that picket line and defend her.

The Teachers Union in NY sucks... but that's another thread.

I also belonged to Local 802 which was an extension of the clubs. They
extorted money from musicians and did nothing to the clubs who were in
violations of the by-laws. Because the union was run by and the clubs were
owned by the same "Organization", the musicians were screwed...AND the
composers didn't get dick...

For you, of all people, to make these comments is callous and hypocritical.

Yada, yada, yada.... ad hominum, as a last resort (or is that "retort"?)

always works... (i!) <--irony alert

"He who lives by the sword, etc..."

Exactly.

I don't sound like it right now, but I really do like you,
Bobby

I'm not on this earth to be liked :-)

------------------------------------



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