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Re: Jimmy Bruno Midnight Blue Guild eBay Auction
I'm amazed that this message got by the moderator - a blatant
advertisement. Perhaps I am wrong, but I assumed that part of the role of the moderator is to filter out spam and commercial messages. That said, this is one of the reasons that I don't like Jimmy Bruno -- how can you take a title - "Midnight Blue" which is one of the all time jazz guitar classics by Kenny Burrell, and blatantly reuse the name? (Are album titles copyrighted?) I think this is incredibly disrespectful. If you listen to his first album, you'll also hear a song that he claimed to write as bearing a very strong resemblance to Blusette. I guess I'm really surprised at Concord Records as well who are probably going to rush to sign up Kenny G., Eminem, and Britney Spears. I've heard it said that his record company, among others, pushes the "smoking" image and discourages him from playing ballads, which in my opinion, he is really quite artful. I like both Bruno and Metheny at various times. I recently heard Pat speak for a couple hours, and was amazed by his really honest commitment to music. I agree his sound is kind of muddy to me. -Jim --- In jazz_guitar@y..., concord_records2001@y... wrote: To celebrate the release of Jimmy Bruno's smokin' new Concordrelease Midnight Blue on August 14th you can bid to win a private lessonwith Jimmy in his hometown of Brotherly Love- Philadelphia!$1999.99 and one Seymour Duncan pickup! The winner may choose from either20 |
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Re: Mick Goodricks Advancing Guitarist
Jesper Barrit
Hey ES175guy !!
Try amazon.com ... Go here - ... GREAT book, btw =) /Jesper From: v.ingle@... To: jazz_guitar@... Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: [jazz_guitar] Mick Goodricks Advancing Guitarist I would like a copy of Mick's book to with my learning process, I can't find one anywhere. Not here in the city I live in, on the web nada'. If anyone out there can help me, I'd greatly appreciate it, Thanks. ES175guy |
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Innovation
Mark Stanley
As you can tell, I have a little too much time on my hands to
think about this, but so be it. Player's are remembered for being unique. We still talk about Monk because he was a great composer and didnt sound like anyone. Pat Metheny does not sound like any other guitar player and his knack for composition is remarkable (not to mention everything else he does on guitar). Someone here wrote that his solo on "Blues for Pat" on the Joshua Redman album Wish was not as innovative as Vinnie Barbarino or someone. Try listening to "We Had A Sister" on the same recording and try to come up with any current guitarist with that depth of composition and beauty. You wont, because most guitarists, especially jazz ones, cant write worth a wooden pickle. They are all concerned about "chops" and by the way, people who seem to use that word never have any. I did a recording session w/ Phillip Glass where one of the string players told me that not many of the local classical musicians would work w/ Glass because he wasnt enough like blah blah blah. That's what I hear a lot of you saying here. Mr. X is not blah blah blah... I had a very long conversation with Dennis Chambers about this phenomenon today. The bottom line: Let X=X. P.S. you can tell the leader by the # of arrows in his ass. -Mark |
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New to the list
Just thought i'd say hi and let everyone know who i am before i start
shooting my mouth off on stuff i know nothing about. :} I'm dave, and live the suburbs of St Paul, MN. My playing goes through different phases of interest, where i pick up some body of technique or pursue some theory or sound in my head. And currently, i'm back on a jazz kick. I'm not much for chops, but i'm pretty good at sounding like myself! My physical technique is changing in interesting ways right now... for years, i have played acoustic mostly fingerstyle and electric almost exclusively with a pick. Now suddenly, i'm playing electric with bare fingers, and acoustic with a pick (and playing simpler, folky stuff on acoustic, but that's another story). The fingers thing is nice. I'm working on playing solo lines with my bare thumb (and Wes Montgomery style octaves, but it will be a long time before i feel i do that well), and picking out more precise chord voicings with bare fingers. I'm also able to apply the highly personalized finger-strumming i do on acoustic to jazzier chords, although it's harder when i have more to mute. A good chunk of my sense of jazz comes from what i listen to at the time... these days, i'm listening to a lot of electric Miles Davis - Tribute to Jack Johnson, Agharta, Bitches Brew, etc. I'm also really into "Yo Miles!", a tribute album to this period by Henry Kaiser and Wadada Leo Smith. In a slightly mellower vein, i've been jamming along with Mingus. Basically, my ears are drawn to a different place than the mainstream jazz guitar traditions. I don't listen much to either traditionalists or fusion players. The jazz guitarists i like tend to be people like Marc Ribot, Bill Frisell, Steve Tibbetts, David Torn, Sonny Sharrock, etc... people who push hard for a unique tone as much as a personal sense of melody and harmony. Here's a practical question for the group to chew on... i recently got a new axe, a Gibson Blueshawk. I like it a lot, but it definitely needs new pickups. The stock set is a pair of "Blues 90" pickups which are the same size as a P90 soapbar, but not the same construction. I'm thinking of replacing them with either Fralins or Rio Grandes. Anyone have experience with either brand and want to say yea or nay? I'm trying to get a tone that's capable of a nasty edge when i turn it up, but can also speak clearly on complex chord voicings, and i love the sound of the classic P90, especially on semi-hollow and hollow guitars. Any other suggestions? As you may have noticed, once i get going i tend to keep going. :} -dave |
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Bruno, Metheney and the Range of Innovation
Jazzers: appreciating Bruno and Metheney both is easy.
I listened to _Bright Size Life_ a million times and Metheney was my fave at the time. I was into the same sorts of sounds. He has a significant body of work that puts him in the "pantheon" of greats. No doubt. Bruno is part of the bebop guitar resurgence. Part of it is simply how fun it is, and how fun it can sound. Listeners recognize the expression of freedom and go along for the ride. Bebop also tends to ruin you for non-bebop. It does seem as if one should at least "go through" bebop to wherever you are going. It is the best way to learn harmony, and harmony (changes, as some have referrred to them--and not a bad way of thinking of it) is the key to understanding music. The downside is that it can get academic, where theory counts more than the sound. But that is just bad bebop. To see the appeal of Bruno, check out _Burnin_. It isn't just the chops; it is exciting music. Recently Bruno is experimenting more, as with _Polarity_ with Joe Beck. He will have a body of work at some point as well. Jazz guitar is going through an "historical" period in which it doesn't matter what era one picks. Acordingly the same goes for styles. Most guitarists play from more than one period or style. What is even better is that we now have so many good players that together they pretty much cover the spectrum of what one can think to do. As I write this, I am listening to John Pizzarelli's trio cd, _Kisses in the Rain_. He can cook with that rhythm that he got from his dad. He can fly with the single note stuff too. Now his stuff isn't ready to be the sound track for the next Star Trek, it is definetly "placed" in time and style. But that's cool, He is further exploring an unexhausted style/era. Randy Groves ===== J. Randall Groves, Ph.D. ("Rando") Professor of Humanities Ferris State University groves@... bebopguitar@... |
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Re: The difference between Jazz & Blues
Deolindo Casimiro
From: "Sebastian" <jazz_1971@...> Jazz was more of an offshoot of blues, but it had a mixture ofI always thought Claude Debussy (and his peers) was a member of the Impressionist School (not the Romantic). In fact, as the story goes, the unpredictability of his harmonies and his habit of extending chords - something the Romantic School would loathe - may have inspired some early bebop luminaries. Anybody agrees? |
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Re: Mick Goodricks Advancing Guitarist
--- In jazz_guitar@y..., v.ingle@a... wrote:
I would like a copy of Mick's book to with my learning process,Aebersold has the book for $14.95. www.jajazz.com |
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Re: Bruno, Metheney and the Range of Innovation
Mark Stanley
*
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MODERATORS note: This thread is in danger of getting personal. Everyone is reminded of the guidelines in the group. Attack the viewpoint, not the person. * I believe Pat has played a Gibson 175 for 30 years. Is that not an archtop? I have a 1954 Gibson 175 and it appears to be an archtop. Pat got more from Ornette intervalically than Diorio. He got a lot from Goodrich too. [SNIP] Mark --- Randy Groves <bebopguitar@...> wrote: Jazzers: Metheney is fairly innovative (I just don't |
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Reminder - The Jim Pellegrino Trio
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
The Jim Pellegrino Trio Date: Saturday, August 18, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 12:00AM EDT (GMT-04:00) Sat, August 18th, John Carlini will be playing with "The Jim Pellegrino Trio" at The Verve. The lineup will be- Jim Pellegrino - Tenor Sax and Flute Bob Funesti - Acoustic Bass John Carlini - Acoustic Guitar Verve Restaurant 18 E. Main St. Somerville, NJ (908)707-8655 |
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Re: Digest Number 394
You said of Pat Metheny's music:
And then, in the very next sentence, you said:Its more for the background to a tv program on the mating of Ha! You kill me!I'm not putting him down for what he does... What makes this hilarious is that Metheny himself recently dumped all over everybody's favorite easy target, Kenny G., for desecrating Louis Armstrong by recording a postumous duet with him. Metheny did, however, present a reasoned and coherent, if spittle-flecked, argument as to why Mr. G.'s number was such a travesty. Keep swinging. cb |
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Bruno, Metheney and the Range of Innovation
Jazzers: Metheney is fairly innovative (I just don't
like his sound--get an archtop! please!--I will try the trio cd though), although all that wide-interval fourths and fifths stuff he gets from Joe Diorio. On the value of innovation, I like the whole range from retro stuff of Howard Alden and Frank Vignola to straight ahead bop/standards of Bruno, Burrell, Randy Johnston or Joe Pass to the 1st level of "stretch," Diorio, Jim Hall and Metheney to the wilder stuff of someone like James Emery (anyone heard him? total guitar god but music first and invention the most important) or even McGlaughlin in his Shakti incarnation (the Mahvishnu stuff went out there too). How are we to think of this range of material when it comes to music appreciation? I think it is a mark of postmodernism that all this is coexisting in the marketplace at the same time, and that the same people can listen and enjoy all of it. Of course, postmodern music will have to mix these in the same work of art, but that is another topic. Randy Groves ===== J. Randall Groves, Ph.D. ("Rando") Professor of Humanities Ferris State University groves@... bebopguitar@... |
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Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat
Mark Stanley
I guess I have more to add to my former post about this
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topic. Saying "Metheny plays jazz?", is just a vicious thing to say. Jimmy Bruno probably said that because he is angry, wears ugly green golf pants and has the name of a pizza delivery boy. You listen to "Lonley Woman" on Rejoicing and tell me that is not a pure jazz improvising genius on guitar. The Travels album alone is enough to put Pat on my list of most useful and brilliant JAZZ musicians of all time (Jazz being a thing that evolves). I originally got involved w/ this thread trying to defend Jimmy Bruno from a lot of the negative comments people made about him, but know he just sounds like a jerk. I have to say that what people who like Bruno keep saying is the word "chops". That word has almost zero meaning to me about being a good musician. You want chops, go listen to Frank Gambale who (I really dont like lowering myself to this level) plays a bunch of soul-less, technique derived garbage for L.A. dorks w/ M.I.T. t-shirts on. He's on my list of people who I can do w/ out, along w/ Richard Proctor Frank Gambale Steve Vai C.C. Deville Mick Mars many more, but what's the point? Mark --- jimlil00@... wrote: The only comment I have seen about Metheney from |
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Re: The difference between Jazz & Blues
Thank you for the clarification. I completely agree. In any
case, to keep things simple, just listen to Charlie Parker (jazz) and B.B. King (blues)! You can go forward and backwards in history from there and figure it out... and tonic))blues is about women (or the lack thereof).Nope. Bluesers ALWAYS gots wimin, or one, at least. It's (think 'museum',that's blues.Nah... It's no shoes, or durty or no socks, hole inna earliestor art gallery)One of the worst fights I ever saw was at a "serious" venue, doubtsbut...) etc...about the difference between jazz and blues, just go to amazon.com jazzThat's Jazz. (but be careful with this categorization because jazz')guys 'play the blues', but blues guys usually don't 'play the just it atreally, really great music. ofTower!)I suppose one could be concerned with aesthetics enough to people,all the new stuff going on. What I consider jazz, some guys will and itand its his way of putting people down, but this is really silly jazz.)is happening now, so no one can really say it is or it ain't get into (unless someone REALLY wants to! ;))Geez, there's so many variations, only an arrogant ass would |
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Re: The difference between Jazz & Blues
Hi all,
Thank you so much for all of your responses on this subject. I am now start to understand the differences between Jazz & Blues music. I look forward to learning Jazz music from you soon, especialy the chords progression. I love Jazz's chords progression !!!! :-) Have a great day. Cheers, VDT ===== Emails: VietDuyTran@... viettran@... Website (Nha.c): |
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Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat
Mark Stanley
OK, I'll do that. Tell me what CD it's on and I'll buy it.
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I havent even heard Jimmy Bruno, so I wasnt making a comparison of the two players. Just a general statement about how really great musicians like the ones that come to this forum, tend to put down players who are great and how that seems like an ego problem to me. If you dont like 'em, you dont like 'em. There's plenty of players I dont like, so I dont listen to them. But I try to take it all in, bop, blues, avante guard, noise, pop, rock, country. It's all good. I hope I dont sound too self righteous. It's just my negative experiences w/ jazz musicians in the past is something that I've learned from. What I learned is that if the world looks like sh*t it's because you have your head up your ass. I must concur, though, that Metheny Trio Live (the latest) you could not fit into any film score, tv show, etc. It's great playing and if you dont think so we can agree to disagree. :)MARK --- jimlil00@... wrote: The only comment I have seen about Metheney from |
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Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat
Paul Erlich
--- In jazz_guitar@y..., jimlil00@e... wrote:
The only comment I have seen about Metheney from Bruno was in aI used to think this about Metheny but he's put a lot of music out and it isn't all like this. His latest _Trio->Live_ is really exciting jazz. I don't think I've ever heard another guitarist who understands harmony on such a deep level -- listen to "Giant Steps". When has a soloist on that tune ever _flowed_ so well before? theFrankly, I don't think either Jimmy Bruno or Pat Metheny have much experience in these latter areas. Jimmy's pretty bad-ass, but only in the "I spent 14 hours a day listening to jazz records and practicing my guitar when I was growing up" kind of way. |
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Re: Digest Number 394
Mike Cover
Hey Jaim...
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You look like Tiny Tim in that photo where you were eying the camera!! But your group's music grooves!! -Grandaddy Mike ----- Original Message -----
From: Jaim Zuber To: jazz_guitar@... Cc: nicholasbaham@... Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Digest Number 394 At 09:48 PM 8/14/01 -0000, jazz_guitar@... wrote: >Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:42:34 -0000 > From: nicholasbaham@... >Subject: Vox amps > >I'm wondering if anyone out there has considered using Vox amps for >jazz guitar performance. I have a Vox Cambridge that I use for >practice and small gigs for my archtop and it really produces a nice >clean tone that rings both warm and clear for the p90 pickups on my >archtop. I've considered getting a larger Vox like the AC30. I'm >wondering if anyone has had any experience using these. I've been gigging with a Matchless DC-30 (Vox AC30 clone) and a 50's Guild Thinline hollowbody. I get a nice warm tone, with a touch of overdrive when I turn up. I love it. Had many folks rave about it too. I plugged into AC-30's (if the store had one) when I was guitar shopping. They don't have a wide range of tones but they do have sounds great. I do more of a jazz/funk thing, I haven't used it for a straight jazz gig. jaim www.rare-medium.com |
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Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat
Absolute poppycock. Metheny's work with Jaco 25 years ago
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was innovative as hell. Check out Metheny's work with Chick Corea, Dave Holland, and Gary Burton. My ears decided long ago. Jimmy's great, but innovative? More like old-school bop. Mike Crutcher Guitarist/Vocalist/Arranger/Instructor Available for sessions/fill-ins/performances/private lessons. "You've Got To Funkifize" -Tower Of Power From: jimlil00@... |
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