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Yosemite permits on recreation.gov

 

In case this hasn't been posted yet, here is the Yosemite page that explains how permits will work on recreation.gov.



It sounds like they'll be charging for unsuccessful permit requests.

Frank



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Frank
 

It looks like it will no longer be possible to stay the first night at Little Yosemite Valley if you want a Donahue exit permit:

¡±?An additional quota applies to backpackers exiting the park on the John Muir Trail over Donohue Pass. This quota is not changing under this system, but how it works is changing. Permits with a Donohue Pass exit will only be available for those with a permit for Happy Isles pass-through (Donohue Pass eligible) or Lyell Canyon (Donohue Pass eligible). If you want to include Donohue Pass (or beyond) in your trip, your entry trailhead must be one of these two trailheads.¡±
 

That is correct. JMT hikers will not be able to camp at LYV.?

Inga
 

Strange, wonder why JMT hikers are being moved out of LYV? If I recall correctly (the Yosemite website is already updated to 2022 permit info), the rolling lottery included 20 daily permits from the combination of HI-LYV, GP-LYV, HI-pass thru and Sunset Lakes (and 25 daily permits from TM). If it will remain at 20 permits starting from HI, then presumably this is going to put more stress on the "pass through" camping options since the previous total daily quota for this permit (JMT + non-JMT) was 10 daily permits (6 reservable + 4 walk ups). I would have thought continuing to park some of the JMT hikers in LYV the first night would have reduced stress on the dispersed camping beyond.?

Maybe it was getting too difficult for non-JMT hikers to get LYV permits?
 

I don¡¯t really understand the change either. LYV is very developed and has facilities, including toilets and developed sites, that can accommodate a large number of backpackers. You could be right that they want to make LYV more available to backpackers doing local trips and assume that longer distance hikers can do more than that short distance on the first day, but some hikers prefer to take it very easy the first few days, taking advantage of being able to resupply at Tuolumne Meadows.?
 

Does anyone have a god contact person at Yosemite Conservancy? I'd like to discuss with them the impact on older hikers of eliminating the LYV option. For older hikers, the pass-thru will make day 1 really hard (though they could use the Lyell Canyon start, arguably better in any case for all JMT hikers, but especially for older ones).
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John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
 

John:? I am preparing an email to you on this.
 

Agree.?


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:52 PM Lange Jorstad via <langejorstad=[email protected]> wrote:
Strange, wonder why JMT hikers are being moved out of LYV? If I recall correctly (the Yosemite website is already updated to 2022 permit info), the rolling lottery included 20 daily permits from the combination of HI-LYV, GP-LYV, HI-pass thru and Sunset Lakes (and 25 daily permits from TM). If it will remain at 20 permits starting from HI, then presumably this is going to put more stress on the "pass through" camping options since the previous total daily quota for this permit (JMT + non-JMT) was 10 daily permits (6 reservable + 4 walk ups). I would have thought continuing to park some of the JMT hikers in LYV the first night would have reduced stress on the dispersed camping beyond.?

Maybe it was getting too difficult for non-JMT hikers to get LYV permits?

 

What happens if someone is tired and hikes a half mile past LYV and camps say just after the half-dome turn off? Won't we be creating more campsites instead?


On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 11:05 AM Will Cronan <wecronan@...> wrote:
Agree.?

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 9:52 PM Lange Jorstad via <langejorstad=[email protected]> wrote:
Strange, wonder why JMT hikers are being moved out of LYV? If I recall correctly (the Yosemite website is already updated to 2022 permit info), the rolling lottery included 20 daily permits from the combination of HI-LYV, GP-LYV, HI-pass thru and Sunset Lakes (and 25 daily permits from TM). If it will remain at 20 permits starting from HI, then presumably this is going to put more stress on the "pass through" camping options since the previous total daily quota for this permit (JMT + non-JMT) was 10 daily permits (6 reservable + 4 walk ups). I would have thought continuing to park some of the JMT hikers in LYV the first night would have reduced stress on the dispersed camping beyond.?

Maybe it was getting too difficult for non-JMT hikers to get LYV permits?



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anand
 

Maybe look at exemption for seniors?


On Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 9:13 AM Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
John:? I am preparing an email to you on this.

 

For what it's worth, my contact at YNP said that some changes are related to constraints with Recreation . Gov. I'm not sure if it's exactly your issue but some things may change after the first year as they work through some kinks.?

Inga
 

Or get a Tuolumne Meadows permit and a second HI to TM permit for 3 days prior.

If you can get them both...

Ethan?

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 5:27 PM David Terrie <david.terrie@...> wrote:
Maybe look at exemption for seniors?

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 9:13 AM Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
John:? I am preparing an email to you on this.

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"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
 

>What happens if someone is tired and hikes a half mile past LYV and camps say just after the half-dome turn off? Won't we be creating more campsites instead?

Remember, you have to go beoyond the point of the arrow on this map?

Which means you have to get closer to the Clouds Rest Jct.? The stretch from Half Dome Jct. to Clouds Rest Jct isn't all that long or strenuous.
 

There is significant elevation gain between LYV and the first legal camping for the pass through permit which is between the Half Dome and Clouds Rest junctions. The entry quotas for the trailheads control the number of hikers camping in various spots and aren¡¯t changing, from what I am reading. The change is that one can no longer attach a Donohue exit permit to the HI¡ª>LYV permit. This doesn¡¯t make much sense and definitely penalizes older hikers or just those who want to take it easy the first few days. I don¡¯t see how it results in any benefits.
 

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There appears to be some discrepancies in the Yosemite wilderness permit pages descriptions.

They state that there will be no trailhead quota changes. The quota page shows 10 permits available for Happy Isle Pass-through permits, but the JMT page states there will be 15 Happy Isle pass-through permits available. Are they handling the JMT trailhead quotas separately? I don't think they did that in the past.

The new JMT Happy Isle quota would fit within the Happy Isle LYV quotas. Maybe they selected the wrong Happy Isle trailhead?

Frank


On 9/17/2021 5:59 PM, Inga wrote:

For what it's worth, my contact at YNP said that some changes are related to constraints with Recreation . Gov. I'm not sure if it's exactly your issue but some things may change after the first year as they work through some kinks.?

Inga

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Frank
 

I would interpret all this to mean that the total Donohue/JMT quotas will not change, but there will likely be changes to how those are distributed.? For example if the total holds at 45, and there are only 15 available for LYV/Passthrough, then there must be an increase of the total Lyell from the present 25 to 30.? ANynumber of combinations of smaller adjustments are possible, but I would expect something like this.? I am especially interested to see whether the total allocation to Lyell increases.? It currently has just over? 55 % of the total permits.
 

Yes, those disperse areas will be more impacted for sure. (Case in point, the couple of campsites at JMT/Clouds Rest junction i.e. sunrise creek camp).

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 6:17 AM steve herr via <groundhogsteve=[email protected]> wrote:
>What happens if someone is tired and hikes a half mile past LYV and camps say just after the half-dome turn off? Won't we be creating more campsites instead?

Remember, you have to go beoyond the point of the arrow on this map?

Which means you have to get closer to the Clouds Rest Jct.? The stretch from Half Dome Jct. to Clouds Rest Jct isn't all that long or strenuous.
 

Re: Donahue exit permit, can you give an example of how this attaching process would have worked prior? My old brain is not following¡­

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 7:45 AM ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
There is significant elevation gain between LYV and the first legal camping for the pass through permit which is between the Half Dome and Clouds Rest junctions. The entry quotas for the trailheads control the number of hikers camping in various spots and aren¡¯t changing, from what I am reading. The change is that one can no longer attach a Donohue exit permit to the HI¡ª>LYV permit. This doesn¡¯t make much sense and definitely penalizes older hikers or just those who want to take it easy the first few days. I don¡¯t see how it results in any benefits.

 

Will: Can you clarify what you mean by "attaching process"?
 

Peter,
Ravi states this: ¡°The change is that one can no longer attach a Donohue exit permit to the HI¡ª>LYV permit.¡±
I¡¯m not sure what that means¡­
Will

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 9:01 AM Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
Will: Can you clarify what you mean by "attaching process"?

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