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Re: Yosemite - early season backpacking impressions #Conditions

 

Thanks! I'm heading in pretty soon, going up to Half Dome and Clouds Rest, so this is invaluable. (I just posted a query asking about conditions.)

You not only didn't need snowshoes, but do appear to be using microspikes, correct? Were those completely sufficient?

I suspect the snow might be deep enough going up Clouds Rest that I'd be postholing in the upcoming conditions, though. Hmmm.
Re: Yosemite - early season backpacking impressions #Conditions

 

Oh wow, yes indeed.
Re: JMT- current conditions with pics

 

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Tom, lucky you !
Wonderful to see someone skiing pics !

Karina Bezkrovnaia

On Apr 25, 2023, at 13:07, Tim Goodrich <tim@...> wrote:

?With all the talk of bridges and this being a JMT group, thought I'd post a couple photos of current conditions along the JMT. We set out Saturday from Main Lodge at Mammoth to do an overnight at the base of Mount Ritter and ski it the next day. Unfortunately, the avalanche gods had other plans as the way up Shadow Creek had numerous wet slides. While not large, the idea of being swept into Shadow Creek was not appealing. So, we turned around and ended up doing 16 miles, arriving back at Mammoth at 9:15pm. But at least we live to ski another day and seeing bear tracks on the way back was cool!

The pic of the bridge is the one at the base of the Shadow Creek drainage- it actually has a bit of a cornice on it. As you can see, still lots of snow up there!

Tim



<bridge.jpg>
<Shadow Creek.jpg>
<JMT.jpg>
<bear.jpg>
Re: Yosemite - early season backpacking impressions #Conditions

 

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And that’s why park is closing now as they have flood warming.

Karina Bezkrovnaia

On Apr 25, 2023, at 13:26, Mike McCormick <mike.mccormick@...> wrote:

?Nice video. Thank you for posting.

On Apr 25, 2023, at 12:01 PM, Rick A. <nobohiker@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I spent the weekend up in Yosemite for some early season backpacking and was blown away how massive the snow pack is this year. No surprise here after reading all the snow reports, but seeing it in person is so impressive.
Almost made it up to El Capitan (~7600 ft) some notes:

- high snow trail markers weren’t visible as they were buried in snow
- some creek crossings were already challenging and they likely will become impassible soon. I’d be surprised if the valley won’t flood in the coming weeks.
- Hiked the first bit of the JMT, up to Nevada falls, It’s just a gorgeous hike.

Short video documenting fun creek crossings and snow play ;-)


Happy Trails!
Re: Yosemite - early season backpacking impressions #Conditions

 

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Nice video. Thank you for posting.

On Apr 25, 2023, at 12:01 PM, Rick A. <nobohiker@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I spent the weekend up in Yosemite for some early season backpacking and was blown away how massive the snow pack is this year. No surprise here after reading all the snow reports, but seeing it in person is so impressive.
Almost made it up to El Capitan (~7600 ft) some notes:

- high snow trail markers weren’t visible as they were buried in snow
- some creek crossings were already challenging and they likely will become impassible soon. I’d be surprised if the valley won’t flood in the coming weeks.
- Hiked the first bit of the JMT, up to Nevada falls, It’s just a gorgeous hike.

Short video documenting fun creek crossings and snow play ;-)


Happy Trails!
Re: Major bridge outage reported on Facebook #Conditions

 

I will be very surprised and impressed if anyone reaches that bridge from the South in May.
It might be bear tracks, but if you peer closely at the aerial image, there appear to be tracks curving away from the bridge on the upper right.
JMT- current conditions with pics

 

With all the talk of bridges and this being a JMT group, thought I'd post a couple photos of current conditions along the JMT. We set out Saturday from Main Lodge at Mammoth to do an overnight at the base of Mount Ritter and ski it the next day. Unfortunately, the avalanche gods had other plans as the way up Shadow Creek had numerous wet slides. While not large, the idea of being swept into Shadow Creek was not appealing. So, we turned around and ended up doing 16 miles, arriving back at Mammoth at 9:15pm. But at least we live to ski another day and seeing bear tracks on the way back was cool!

The pic of the bridge is the one at the base of the Shadow Creek drainage- it actually has a bit of a cornice on it. As you can see, still lots of snow up there!

Tim
Yosemite - early season backpacking impressions #Conditions

 

Hi All,

I spent the weekend up in Yosemite for some early season backpacking and was blown away how massive the snow pack is this year. No surprise here after reading all the snow reports, but seeing it in person is so impressive.
Almost made it up to El Capitan (~7600 ft) some notes:

- high snow trail markers weren’t visible as they were buried in snow
- some creek crossings were already challenging and they likely will become impassible soon. I’d be surprised if the valley won’t flood in the coming weeks.
- Hiked the first bit of the JMT, up to Nevada falls, It’s just a gorgeous hike.

Short video documenting fun creek crossings and snow play ;-)


Happy Trails!
Re: Major bridge outage reported on Facebook #Conditions

 

I will be very surprised and impressed if anyone reaches that bridge from the South in May.
Re: Speculating on the SFSJ bridge

 

I agree with Mike.? I don't see any evidence of avalanche or other catastrophic event, and relatively little deformation on the upstream side.? Would like to see a lower angle shot, but from the available view, it looks like the upstream railing is evenly bowed and the lower beam on the same side is straight.? It is all still bhigh above the water, so little buckling over all.? But time and better photos will tell
Re: Safely crossing the creek at the SFSJ bridge, what about this method?

 

Ned's comments are in the thread here (I requested quote permission from him):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2023jmt/posts/1663620644082370/
?
I am quoting Ned's comments below.? Comments in brackets are mine:
?
Quote (from Ned): "What we’re talking about, here, is trying to devise a “safe” or minimally risky way to wade a deep, fast moving, inclined, boulder-strewn crossing of a RIVER.

The South Fork of the San Joaquin River at this location and after the huge winter the region has had (hence the bridge being out) is no creek!

No one should be attempting an immersion crossing of any River in the Sierra this year during the Thaw - with or without a pack on!

Also, do not use ropes as high-lines held onto with one hand as they move and sway and give you a false sense of security.
?
If a waterway is steep, deep, wide, and full of wild whitewater, DO NOT CROSS! Turn around or search far upstream for a wide, calm, slow, shallow, smooth-bottomed location where you can cross within your skill set!

Even if a high-line could be set up to ferry equipment across, everyone still has to get in the River.

This is not a safe crossing method that I’ve ever taught or endorsed.
?
Lisa [who asked a question about crossing near MTR], people do not appreciate the force of water until they’ve been pushed by a wave at the beach. Then, suddenly, they realize it has weight and force and is an entity to be respected!

All it takes is a trip, stumble, misplaced pole-plant, slight pain, or just an eddy in the current to knock you over in a waist deep current and now you’re struggling for your life.
Just because some noted and published person did it with apparent ease and confidence doesn’t mean it’s a foolproof and safe method for all.

Thigh-deep is my max depth. If a crossing has a channel that’s deeper than that, I’m looking upstream for a different site.

Any waterway that runs across your path that drains thousands of mountaintop acres miles away and a few thousand feet higher in elevation than where you are right now, I hold in high regard, with extreme respect, and probably won’t cross until all the odds are stacked in my favor.
?
Lisa [who asked another question about it possibly being safer later in the summer and then near MTR], yes and only then! I have waded across the SFSJ River at the MTR to get to the hot spring on the other side, but only when the water was as deep as my leather boots were tall!""
?
Re: Safely crossing the creek at the SFSJ bridge, what about this method?

 

Ned TIbbits made a lot of good counterpoints about the above but on the Facebook 2023 JMT Hikers Forum.? I made my reply there, quote: "I agree with the comments made by?, but not only the ones he made above but also the ones he has made in person in his courses which I've taken plus online on other JMT forums. It makes me amend my query as follows. One, the rope I mention does not need to be attached to the swimmer. The rope could be tied to a cloth sack with a rock on it, and the rope could be thrown across the creek where the equipment pulled over arrangement is planned. Where the rope is crossed by throwing does not need to be where one swims or wades across, they could be a good distant apart. As mentioned by Ned in the past, one should consider traversing only at safe points. Sometimes the creek/river is hardly moving further upstream or further downstream. Crossing Bear Creek in the past, sometimes we would walk for a half hour up or downstream to find a safer crossing. If there is no safe crossing space, for sure do not attempt to cross where there is any concern you might drown or get injured by rock under the water. If you are comfortable cross country hiking, for sure take one of the alternative routes. Hopefully the park rangers will come up with a safe alternative where hikers are detoured to go to make it safely across. I brought up this thread because if it is not discussed and counterpointed, by experienced people like Ned, then those who consider something like I discussed might try it without being warned of the dangers (counterpoints). I have not ever done this, I've been fortunate in the 11 JMT hikes I've done to cross safely. I have had to wade up to waist high, but there was virtually no current where I crossed."
Re: Safely crossing the creek at the SFSJ bridge, what about this method?

 

If one desires stronger line, Jerry Brown sells 800 lb line (??) and has a limited edition (one left) of 1,000 pound line as well.
Re: Speculating on the SFSJ bridge

 

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Here is my prediction.
The PCTA will post alternative routes. ?Most likely exit over bishop pass to south lake and enter via Paiute pass. ?This approach will be completely legal with a PCTA pass. ?It seems highly likely that crossing the bridge will not be allowed.
The early season PCT hikers will probably try many of the options previously discussed. ? No doubt some will try and use the bridge. ?They will report back on “Far Out” and the herd will follow. ??
If you follow NOBO hiker social media you should be able to glean direct observer information from those folks. ?What you do with that information is up to you to decide.
Good luck to all that face difficult choices. ?Even with intact bridges this year is gonna be one to remember.



On Apr 23, 2023, at 2:45 PM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:

?I don't take much hope from the fact that it is not in the River:? it looks that way to me from the start.? But if you carefully identify which bars are ahere in the structure of the bridge, and match them up with their shadows, and add in the fact that the edges of the snowbanks on both sides of the river are also a few feet above the stream, you can conclude that the bridge is not nearly as distorted as the shadow makes it look.? The downstream handrail is certainly a mess, bust the rest?? Maybe not so much.

Re: Speculating on the SFSJ bridge

 

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 02:45 PM, Peter Hirst wrote:
The downstream handrail is certainly a mess, bust the rest?? Maybe not so much.

Yeah, it's hard to gauge from an aerial shot and with the snow. Comparing that photo to the photos I took of that bridge in 2020, It doesn't look like it was pushed off the foundations (again, hard to say for sure with the snow).


If it's not wobbling and didn't slide completely off one or both of the foundations, I can see someone (not me :) ) trying to climb horizontally across it using any parts still there.
Re: Speculating on the SFSJ bridge

 
Edited

I don't take much hope from the fact that it is not in the River:? it looks that way to me from the start.? But if you carefully identify which bars are where in the structure of the bridge, and match them up with their shadows, and add in the fact that the edges of the snowbanks on both sides of the river are also a few feet above the stream, you can conclude that the bridge is not nearly as distorted as the shadow makes it look.? The downstream handrail is certainly a mess, but the rest?? Maybe not so much.
Re: Major bridge outage reported on Facebook #Conditions

 

Karina, I agree with you regarding off trail detours. Off trail travel is a completely different proposition compared to what people are used to on the JMT and other well traveled trails. I've traveled quite a bit in the Sierra and other mountain ranges, almost exclusively on trail, and have been in some tricky snow situations that sent me off course unintentionally. I don't think anyone should venture off trail without adequate training and preparation. I certainly would not do so myself. Years ago, I intended to get into off trail travel by taking some courses but never ended up doing that. Hopefully everyone stays safe this summer.
Re: Safely crossing the creek at the SFSJ bridge, what about this method?

 

Responding to the reply (in another forum) that SAR missions may happen with people trying to cross the water, I can also imagine there will be SAR missions dealing with people who are not adept at route backpacking on talus too. I figured, why not at least discuss a way to get a pack across water without it being carried manually? Yes, there is the risk of the pack falling into the water, but I figure that would be due to not knowing knots or having rope not strong enough. Yes, one needs to be able to get across the water without a pack in this scenario. Crossing water without a pack is a safer risk than crossing water with a pack.
Re: Speculating on the SFSJ bridge

 

If you take a cross section through the bridge, you get a U shape. U shapes are not very good at handling twisting (torsion). That's why I think a lopsided load (heavy snow on one side, missing snow on the other where it melted) created a twisting load could well have caused the bridge to buckle.

Not something that I would have thought about at all if I had been the one designing the bridge. And this bridge's orientation of east to west would make it more susceptible to the snow melting on one side than, say, the bridges immediately up and down stream of it.

Mike Sherman

On 04/23/2023 11:15 AM Tim Mulholland <tim@...> wrote:


This was a VERY high snow year. I’m “assuming” (an engineering term [ ;) ]) that the snow load exceeded the design load for the deck. The right beam simply failed and buckled and relieved the stress by dumping the snow.

One of my degrees is in engineering, but P.E. In my case means pseudo-engineer.

Tim
Re: Speculating on the SFSJ bridge

 

This was a VERY high snow year. I’m “assuming” (an engineering term [ ;) ]) that the snow load exceeded the design load for the deck. The right beam simply failed and buckled and relieved the stress by dumping the snow.

One of my degrees is in engineering, but P.E. In my case means pseudo-engineer.

Tim
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