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Re: Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ?


 
Edited

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Hi Richard, yes the problem is terminology and it is not just because many people are abusing words; it¡¯s because? for the last 10 decades there have been people fooling with generators and transformers, creating many many difficult to describe connections, so the ordinary electricity.

I agree with much of your stuff about DC and terminology, but some not-so-good expressions have been ongoing for years

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Re. I am not sure how a three-wire DC system works. ??????I am not sure what you mean, but if you have not looked at 1890¡¯s electric power, you might think there are only 2 wire systems ?but Most people mean something like this

?whether it is a generator or battery ?this is the common configuration of ¡°3-wire¡± but ?

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The configuration of the typical LV AC system wiring is the same, or ¡°copied¡± from Edison¡¯s the 3-wire DC system where there is a ¡°middle wire¡± or ¡°common wire¡± or ¡°Neutral¡±, and ?a ?hot positive ?and ?a hot Negative, both, WRT the middle wire, and for AC, there is ¡°a middle wire¡±, and at the right point in time the AC system has a hot positive ?and hot Negative both, WRT the middle wire. ??You know doubt know this but use different words.

Re. DC does not have phase.? ..agree ?but the term ¡°split phase¡± in AC implies divided in the MIDDLE ¡­ how do you say that for DC ? I agree it is loose words but seems to convey the idea with 2 words. ???????????

Re ?Since AC and DC are quite different I don't see how a DC system could be "copied" for AC. ???Yes, but the configuration was either copied or reinvented to be the same; just keep the wires and change the two DC generators to ?two AC generators and be careful of the ¡°polarity¡± of the connections.

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This might not be right, but it was my understanding that originally Edison had one 110 volt DC generator with one wire hooked to ground. ??light bulbs limit was 110V or they wouldn¡¯t. When the generator was fully loaded, to feed more customers, he connect another generator but with the positive grounded, so he then had 220v line to line, or 110 to ¡°ground¡±. I have never seen if the Ground became a ¡°Ground wire¡± before the 3-wire system began.[Jim must know], but intentional running current in the ground was a problem, and it seems that the solution was to unground most electrical systems for a while so we had grounded neutrals and ungrounded ones. ???AS I have read and Jim said, ?AC grounding took a while, to evolve.? O course the first wires run into earth rods were in the 1754 for lightning ????? and then they invented insulators for the wires so don¡¯t forget that history. And ?the fire insurance?

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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Knoppow via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 5:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Power distribution, was: 2-wire, unpolarized outlet ?

?

Don, you now have me confused. I suspect the terminology used may be
the cause. DC does not have phase. I am not sure how a three-wire DC
system works. Since AC and DC are quite different I don't see how a DC
system could be "copied" for AC.
Three wire AC distribution is at the end user where the pole
transformer usually reduces voltage from the pole lines to the consumer
voltage. Very often these transformers have a center tapped secondary
feeding the house. The outlets in the house can go to either side of the
incoming feed and the center tap or, for some high power items like
electric stoves or clothes dryers, across both sides for double the
voltage. The center tap is the return for the single side feeds and is
not used for the across the line feed except as a neutral. This does not
include ground connections, which do not usually go to the power line
but to an independent ground, perhaps a ground stake.
For this system to work the phase of the two sides is opposite.
That is, when one is most negative the other will be most positive. That
gives the full voltage across the line, while going to the center tap
gives you half the total voltage. The voltages are determined by the
pole transformer and have nothing to do with the distribution line.
Now, DC is one voltage. It can't be "split" into two phases because
DC doesn't have phases. One side is negative, the other positive. Stays
that way back to the generator. To have double the voltage on must have
two transmission lines from the generating station wired in opposite
polarity. Then one could connect between them and get the twice the
voltage of either line, but they are still essentially independent.
For long distance tranmission at very high voltages but is not
suitable for general distribution. That's why AC is the overwhelming
system in use.
Edison was a genius but had his limits. His name lives on in many
places including a great many electrical energy companies with Edison in
their names. For instance locally the Southern California Edison
Company. In New York City, the Consolidated Edison Co (one of the last
to supply DC current) and many others. Note that the General Electric Co
before its merger was the Edison General Electric Co.
I think I am beating a dead horse and will quite now.


--
don??? va3drl

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