Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
My experience with SRAM and Flash cards:
I used an old Gateway laptop with WinXP. I could read/write an SRAM card just the same as if it were a drive. I could also read/write a Flash card that came from an old Cisco router. If I remember, it was a Smart brand card. I don't know if my laptop had the optional 12V, or if that card required it.
As to multiple programs, the other poster was correct. Just copy everything to the root of the card. Obviously, you can't have files with the same name, but it seems that HP took care of that with the diagnostics that they provided. I had RF Tools, NA FM, AM Tests and EDACS all on one Flash card.
Make sure you have the program files that are for a FAT filesystem, not LIF. If the files have extensions (.prg and others), then you have the correct files.
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Re: 8920B low frequency limit
Hi Robert
I think that we are both making the same point but using slightly different language.
Somewhere I have an advertising flyer for the 8920A with splashed on the front page "New electronic attenuator increases reliability" unfortunately not dated. The key to when it happened is in the 2000 year catalog.
All of the batch of 8920S's I repaired that were fitted with the PIN diode attenuator said 400KHz to 1GHz on the front panel.
I think that with a 8920A it should be buyer beware until checked.
George G6HIG Dover UK On Wednesday, 6 January 2021, 20:00:16 GMT, Robert G8RPI via groups.io <robert8rpi@...> wrote:
I made a longer post earlier but it does not seem to have been approved by the moderator yet.
The A23 extended option list is in IODIAG2 (my not yet approved email said LISTOPT in error.)
I've put a photo of the screen in Photos / G8RPI. This also shows that the unit has a 0.4-1000MHz sticker. Interestingly it has no OPT055 on the option sticker.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: 8920B low frequency limit
To repeat myself from the other group---
I have an 8935
RF gen goes down to 100KHz
Wally
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Re: 8920B low frequency limit
I made a longer post earlier but it does not seem to have been approved by the moderator yet.
The A23 extended option list is in IODIAG2 (my not yet approved email said LISTOPT in error.)
I've put a photo of the screen in Photos / G8RPI. This also shows that the unit has a 0.4-1000MHz sticker. Interestingly it has no OPT055 on the option sticker.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: 8920B low frequency limit
Yes, that confirms that you have to check the individual instrument to be 100% sure. The information in catalogs indicate the 8920A should always have had a mechanical A23 module from new. I can find no formal reference to any option for the PIN A23 for the 8920a in catalogs or older spec sheets. However the 8920A datasheet on the Keysight website says the 8920A only goes to 30MHz unless you have option 055!? The early 8920B specification sheets around 1997 and 1997 catalog (catalog had both A & B listed) had the B signal generator going down to 250kHz and not option 055 listed. The first dated reference I can find for option 055 is in the 2000 catalog and that is only for the B. I have a suspicion that the late production A models were just a B with the A memory board and front panel fitted for customers who wanted compatibility with existing systems. Amtronix can convert a late A to a B so there can't be that much difference.
So unless you or someone you trust actually tests the generator output in the specific test set you cannot be 100% sure. The LISTOPTS test in ROM (may not be present in all firmware revisions) does give reasonable confidence if A23 Extended Measurement is indicated as installed.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: 8920B low frequency limit
The units with the relay based attenuator should also have the .4-1Ghz label on the front ..this is true for the A's and B's
the early 8920A only had the relay based RF I/O? standard and the later /last vintages ( parallel printer port knock out ) had the option 55 usually marked as well as the front panel label.
the 8920B&8924 came standard with the electronic attenuator and? either no frequency range marked on the 8920b or the 30-1G on the 8924 .
I have seen some 8924's that had option 55 ....very rare and not sure the front label was changed.
I also thought the I/O configuration report would show the relay based attenuator but that report varies on the firmware level and model ...that test is not in all the firmware versions.
Have never seen and enhanced range A23 option? ...who knows ...marketing may have tried to put a more sophisticated spin vs. using relays in the title ( 42 years at HP ...great engineering ...horrible marketing )
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Re: 8920B low frequency limit
Hi Robert
As I said I have little experience with the 8920B. The really confusing issue with the 8920A is the front panel which gives the range as 400KHz to 1GHz even when option 055 is not fitted.
My tests on a later 8920A without option 055 fitted, showed that the output/input performance drops off a cliff below about 11MHz. No use generating say 400Khz if it cannot make it trough the input/output module.
My main reason for the posting was to warn potential buyers off the likes of a certain auction site that the 8920A HF/LF performance is not necessarily that being claimed.
You are no doubt aware that the average radio amateur in the UK now never goes above using DC, certainly at this point in the solar cycle.
Nice to hear from you directly, I always follow your input.
George G6HIG Dover UK
On Wednesday, 6 January 2021, 08:56:59 GMT, Robert G8RPI via groups.io <robert8rpi@...> wrote:
Bit of a cross post from HPAK group.
For 250kHz signal generator usable output the 8920A/B must have a mechanical (relay) A23 output module. Option 055 was the normal option for a mechanical input assembly on a 8920B. However lack of an option 055 mark is not conclusive. I have a later 8920B that has no 0ption 055 mark (2 option stickers present) but if you run the configuration list diagnostic it indicates "A23 extended measurement" is fitted. Testing against a 8566B confirms the signal generator output is flat down to 250kHz. So you have to check the unit to be 100% sure.
Robert G8RPI.
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8920B low frequency limit
Bit of a cross post from HPAK group.
For 250kHz signal generator usable output the 8920A/B must have a mechanical (relay) A23 output module. Option 055 was the normal option for a mechanical input assembly on a 8920B. However lack of an option 055 mark is not conclusive. I have a later 8920B that has no 0ption 055 mark (2 option stickers present) but if you run the configuration list diagnostic it indicates "A23 extended measurement" is fitted. Testing against a 8566B confirms the signal generator output is flat down to 250kHz. So you have to check the unit to be 100% sure.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
255 or 125 files? I remember in FAT that you could only put 125 (or 122?) files in the root dir Well, time to go after the other cards, I'm very curious about the "AM TESTS" card...
Thanks for the help!
Alexandre, PU2SEX =)
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---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- Em seg., 4 de jan. de 2021 ¨¤s 19:50, Robert G8RPI via <robert8rpi= [email protected]> escreveu:
Hi,
Glad you got it working.
You can put as much software on the card as will fit or possibly 255 files max. No directories; they all go in the "root".
The card I have has both RF tools and NA FM on it.
Even more interesting I can view and edit the .pgm (IBasic) files on the PC so might try some modifications. Or even write my own.
Always easier to start with something that works.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
A small write-up to gather all the knowledge and data necessary to create a card
(in portuguese, google translator is your friend =D )
Thanks you all for the help
?
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Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
Hi,
Glad you got it working.
You can put as much software on the card as will fit or possibly 255 files max. No directories; they all go in the "root".
The card I have has both RF tools and NA FM on it.
Even more interesting I can view and edit the .pgm (IBasic) files on the PC so might try some modifications. Or even write my own.
Always easier to start with something that works.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
Just to update you all:
I got an old notebook (toshiba L60?!) with pcmcia and windows XP. Inserted the HP 1MB SRAM card on it and copied the files of the RF Tools package to it. Worked flawlessly \o/. Note I had to format the card AGAIN on the pc for it to copy the files.
Next, loaded Memory Card Explorer (MCE) on the notebook, had lots of troubles to run. If you need to run it, and it shows "memory window error" or something like that, open CMD, go to MCE dir and type MCE WD4 or one of the options of the W command: D0, D4, D8, DC, E0, E4, E8, EC. One of then MAY works for you. Note that the command is W and not /W. I spent 2 hours fighting MCE because of the slash. Everywhere on the net says you need the /. After you give the correct command, it will save on the INI file and you'll run it just clicking on the icon.? Ok, MCE running, got the BIN file and wrote it on the SRAM card. Worked ok. Got an old 4MB linear flash card, wrote it, worked also OK.
So, I got RF Tools working on the E8285A. Woohoo! \o/
Is there any other software avaiable? I was curious of the AM Tools. Can I have more than 1 software on a card? Using subdirectories?
Thanks A LOT for the software and the info =)
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---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- Em dom., 3 de jan. de 2021 ¨¤s 19:32, Alexandre Souza via <alexandre.tabajara= [email protected]> escreveu:
Robert, I have NEVER EVER SEEN a pcmcia card works as a driver. But if you are saying, I'll give a try. I love to learn new things :D thanks for the tip! Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
Em dom, 3 de jan de 2021 18:42, Robert G8RPI via <robert8rpi= [email protected]> escreveu: I did some checks today and found the following.
1/ PC used old Sony laptop running XP and the "generic" PCMCIA memory card drivers from windows installled.
2/ Memory card was a SRAM 2m card with write protection switch.
3/ Card formatted in the laptop for FAT, unknown capacity - result was a 512kB capacity card recognised? by windows.
4/ Individual fles (.pgm, .lib etc from the files ssection here) copied under windows.
5/ Card ejected and WRITE PROTECT SWITCH set to ON
6/ Card tried under "Tests" in a 8920B and I was able to load the programs into the test set.
The odd bit was it seems that the first time the card was put in the 8920B it had to have write protect on but subsequently it could be off.
This was hard to verify fully.
Robert G8RPI
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Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
Robert, I have NEVER EVER SEEN a pcmcia card works as a driver. But if you are saying, I'll give a try. I love to learn new things :D thanks for the tip! Enviado do meu Tele-Movel Em dom, 3 de jan de 2021 18:42, Robert G8RPI via <robert8rpi= [email protected]> escreveu:
I did some checks today and found the following.
1/ PC used old Sony laptop running XP and the "generic" PCMCIA memory card drivers from windows installled.
2/ Memory card was a SRAM 2m card with write protection switch.
3/ Card formatted in the laptop for FAT, unknown capacity - result was a 512kB capacity card recognised? by windows.
4/ Individual fles (.pgm, .lib etc from the files ssection here) copied under windows.
5/ Card ejected and WRITE PROTECT SWITCH set to ON
6/ Card tried under "Tests" in a 8920B and I was able to load the programs into the test set.
The odd bit was it seems that the first time the card was put in the 8920B it had to have write protect on but subsequently it could be off.
This was hard to verify fully.
Robert G8RPI
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Re: How to write a PCMCIA SRAM card?
I did some checks today and found the following.
1/ PC used old Sony laptop running XP and the "generic" PCMCIA memory card drivers from windows installled.
2/ Memory card was a SRAM 2m card with write protection switch.
3/ Card formatted in the laptop for FAT, unknown capacity - result was a 512kB capacity card recognised? by windows.
4/ Individual fles (.pgm, .lib etc from the files ssection here) copied under windows.
5/ Card ejected and WRITE PROTECT SWITCH set to ON
6/ Card tried under "Tests" in a 8920B and I was able to load the programs into the test set.
The odd bit was it seems that the first time the card was put in the 8920B it had to have write protect on but subsequently it could be off.
This was hard to verify fully.
Robert G8RPI
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Re: 8920A and 8920B faults
Em 03/01/2021 11:04, Craig Harris escreveu: Servicing 101 is to first eliminate issues with the power supply. That is what solved my E8285A. It was a shorted tantalum cap on the 40V rail... -- ---8<---Corte Aqui---8<---
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Re: 8920A and 8920B faults
interesting that the MISC test passed when connecting DUPLEX to ANT.
Would almost lead me to believe the loopback relay is bad or not getting activated during the selftest or a poor connection / contact n the relay.? A complete failure would show errors like the 8920B.
Does everything work on the 8920A outside of the test ?
If you look in the CLIP a little more to the right you should see a relay the loops the GEN out to the RX
The issue on service monitors like the 892X selftest is that since they loopback on themselves the failures may not be what they seem.? HP did a fantastic job of trying to direct the troubleshooting based on the failure data but it's not foolproof .
Often the most effective way is to swap modules with a known good unit but be careful there especially on the RF I/O since the calibration data will be different and the RF I/O has a huge number of calibration points.
On both the 8920A and the 8920B it would be good to check the RF GEN output levels on both the DUPLEX and RF I/O
On the 8920B you may have a low or no output on the RF GEN ...bad output module ?
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Re: 8920A and 8920B faults
Servicing 101 is to first eliminate issues with the power supply.
Granted keying high power into a sensitive cct is not advisable and can/will cause damage.
(The Motorola units all have a fuse on the input inside the removable ANT BNC connector and will scream at you or alert you if you do something naughty.
The fuse will pop and save you much heart ache and money because you can simply replace it s a user accessible item)?
I have seen on later Agilent schematics input protection on the sensitive input. 8920s ?
I understand the desire to delve in. But you have stated you do not have the basic of basics requirement in servicing which is an oscilloscope.
You can read all the literature you like but that wont tell you what`s wrong only where to look.
Its not advisable to use faulty equipment to diagnose but in a pinch, can you not use the OSC on one unit to check the other??
Once you have eliminated the power supply (all the way down to the cct in question) you can then move on to deeper issues.
JYELMGREN has given you some clues to check the input cct. Have you done this?
Sounds like you might be deep in the woods? Servicing service equipment is not for the faint hearted.
That said, I will try to give you some sound advice and help.
Get yourself an oscilloscope if you are intending to do fault finding.
Best of luck,
Craig.?
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Re: 8920A and 8920B faults
Hello again, thanks for taking the time to reply.
I have done a few more tests today to further isolate it down, I will start off with the 8920A
the antenna input detector fails when I run the RF diags however it will pass the tests under Misc diags (RF I/O to Duplex out and Duplex out to Ant IN)
I have heard of the damage that can be done by keying into the antenna port and exceeding the 200mw limit, it just seems strange that it will fail in the RF diags test and not the Misc tests. I have been reading the CLIP for the 8920 and was thinking that a good starting point to look at would be either the?432YZ-7486 relay or the CR-204 HSMS-2800 schottky diode, what do you think?.
The 8920B does run a lot of failures in both the RF diags and MS diags which to me lines up more along the line that someone has accidently keyed into the antenna port. I have checked the PSU rails as best I can but will try to borrow a CRO to get a better look.
all in all the 8920A only fails on the antenna detect whereas the 8920B has 21 failures in RF diags on various tests.
I have attached a bunch more screen grabs of the tests and the results and will start with the 8920B input assembly this week, Hopefully I can find something concrete when I open it up.?
Thanks again,
Allan
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Re: 8920A and 8920B faults
The 8920A failure is a common problem and typically caused by someone keying into the antenna port.
You have to pull the RF I/O and crack the case and look at the antenna port components.
typically it checks? for no signal on that detector during the main RF diag and on the MISC diags? when you cable the DUPLEX OUT to ANT it should see a level there.
On the 8920B? does that unit pass all the RF diags? and MISC diags ?
It almost like you have a bad? RF I/O or the SA assembly but the RF diags? & MISC? diags should have caught something
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Re: 8920A and 8920B faults
Hi Allan,
I have no experience with the 8920s in particular but have years of experience with Motorola units.
You haven`t detailed what you have done so far so lets take it from the top.
Before looking for a deeper problem I would personally run a CRO over the power supply rails checking for correct and clean voltage levels.
Both units look to be showing suspicious signs of dirty rails.
Craig.
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Alexandre Souza
