¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Date

Re: Protecting Equipment

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

An older Uninterruptable Power Supply makes a very convenient way to reduce line voltage. Find one of the old "loaf of bread" sized units that uses the large 60 cycle transformer, rather than the newer ones that use a switching inverter. Remove everything except the transformer, fuse holder, outlets and switch. Use one half of the? primary winding along with the 120 volt secondary to make an autotranformer. It will drop 120 volts to about 109, which is much easier on older gear designed for 110 or 115 volts.?

???? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY





On 3/20/22 13:45, saipan59 (Pete) wrote:

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 08:59 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
Its not really a problem in real life since most DC blocks only have capacitors that are 100n or lower, the short current pulse doesn¡¯t hurt anything!
It seems to me that saying "100n is small enough to protect the circuit" is not the answer, without stating how big the DC level is. Isn't it the ENERGY absorbed by the delicate components that is key?

A different variation on Protection: The AC line voltage here is routinely 125V. Some older equipment might be "stressed" by that. I use a buck transformer to bring it down to about 115V. The transformer, coincidentally, came from an HP spec-an that I disassembled for parts.

Pete


Anyone have a BNC Connector for a HP5460XB Series scope.

 

I have a HP54602B that has a BNC connector that has been damaged beyond repair. Does anyone have one of these BNC connectors from a scrapped PCB?
The BNC for the B series is vastly different than the A series or the ones? that have probe detection. I believe that these were made specifically for HP by Trompeter Electronics as they have the part number 54601-27601-1 and the Trompeter Triangle symbol on them. They mount with a T8 metric screw and have the alignment pin shown in the pictures.

Thanks for looking!

Sam
W3OHM


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

On 3/20/22 11:11, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:
How much did the Philips kit cost?
Don't know -- parents' gift in 1964.


Re: Protecting Equipment

 

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 08:59 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
Its not really a problem in real life since most DC blocks only have capacitors that are 100n or lower, the short current pulse doesn¡¯t hurt anything!
It seems to me that saying "100n is small enough to protect the circuit" is not the answer, without stating how big the DC level is. Isn't it the ENERGY absorbed by the delicate components that is key?

A different variation on Protection: The AC line voltage here is routinely 125V. Some older equipment might be "stressed" by that. I use a buck transformer to bring it down to about 115V. The transformer, coincidentally, came from an HP spec-an that I disassembled for parts.

Pete


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

I used to think mean cruel mangement was unique to the Syracuse area. A friend went to dental offices asking for their old X-ray photo chemicals.? 99% of them not only refused, they were actually furious at him for asking.? They insisted on pouring it down the sewer, which did not help our already overloaded treatment plant. The silver residue was very toxic to the bacteria used to digest the sewage. Those of us working in consumer electronics sweatshops didn't fare any better.? There would be massive amounts of abandoned equipment in attics and back rooms, yet the shop owners would not allow us to take it home or even buy it.? It was always VERY curious that when I went on vacation and returned, they had decided while I was gone was just the time to clean out the junk room.? By the late 70s, almost all of us had escaped to far better careers and the sweatshops were out of business.

?? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY





They certainly do recycle the copper!

I presented the information to the VP of the company, and
he said no. The etchant tank had a plastic garden hose
fitting at its bottom, so I told him that I was willing
to fill the old carboys, with a garden hose, and even work
for free, as we used at least one carboy per day, which
exceeded my hourly pay... He said no...

I guess he liked pouring money down the drain for some
reason.

-Chuck Harris




Was it possible to recycle the copper removed by these etchants?

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY




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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I was born in 1950, and my technical interests were growing exponentially by 1957. I never saw or heard of the Philips project kits until now. Indeed, Philips or Norelco electronic items were very scarce where I was. Until the late 1960s, the only Norelco products one would see for sale where I was were shavers and a few cassette recorders. I certainly saw and repaired a lot of Philips radios and sound gear brought into the TV shop I worked at, but it was all bought and brought there from elsewhere, usually by returning military people. The only training and project kits available in local stores were the Erectronic Transistor Kit, a few very simple kits by Remco, and some project kits by General Electric. There were kits offered in the back of magazines, but the Philips is the best one of that period I have seen yet. How much did the Philips kit cost??

??? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/20/22 11:33, John Griessen wrote:


On 3/20/22 04:51, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi
wasn't the EE20 the ad on set with speaker and a lot more components
wish I still had it as it was an inspiration for lots my age into electronics

I had one of the beginner sets from Philips also when I was 7 or 8 in Beaumont Texas.? I'm 1957 vintage also.






Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

That brings back a second part to the story of when
I used to make circuit boards professionally:

The company I was working for, Electro Products, Inc...
I mention them because they are long gone... made a lot
of circuit boards as part of being a full service assembly
house.

Anyway, they bought ferric chloride by the 30 gallon
carboy, and poured it all down the sanitary drain when
they were done. The plumbers had come in twice that I
was aware of to break up the floor and replace the cast
iron drain pipe.

So, I was talking to the guy that delivered the latest
batch of carboys, and he casually mentioned that his
company would give me $30 for each carboy returned full
of used etchant. They certainly do recycle the copper!

I presented the information to the VP of the company, and
he said no. The etchant tank had a plastic garden hose
fitting at its bottom, so I told him that I was willing
to fill the old carboys, with a garden hose, and even work
for free, as we used at least one carboy per day, which
exceeded my hourly pay... He said no...

I guess he liked pouring money down the drain for some
reason.

-Chuck Harris


On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 16:39:29 +0000 "Lothar baier"
<Lothar@...> wrote:
Recycle my butt ?lol , when the etchant was Saturated it was dumped
down the toilet On Mar 19, 2022, at 11:31, greenboxmaven via
groups.io <ka2ivy@...> wrote:

?

Was it possible to recycle the copper removed by these etchants? Was
it possible in mass manufacture of circuit boards to laminate copper
outlines of the crcuit paths, when there was substantial empty space
on the finished board, so less would have to be etched away ?

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 3/19/22 10:29, Jeff Kruth via groups.io wrote:
Hi Lothar!
Two questions: When you used Ammonium Persulphate, did you have to
add an activator (few drops of something) to make it etch faster?
remember Kepro selling a small bottle with their "kit" that have the
"magic" activator. Not sure if its needed.

Second: What is your eBay handle, sounds like you have some good
stuff.

Regards
Jeff Kruth


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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

The?American Basic Science Club provided ten monthly kits, which educated me in the?early?1960s.
(Google has?many hits to show the themes:?electronics, light, cloud chamber, optics¡­)

I built a 3-tube?regenerative receiver after learning through early kits. ?My real introduction to electronics!

Gave me the confidence to modify a?5-tube superheterodyne receiver to receive short wave.

Larry
AC9OX


d


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

On 3/20/22 04:51, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi
wasn't the EE20 the ad on set with speaker and a lot more components
wish I still had it as it was an inspiration for lots my age into electronics
I had one of the beginner sets from Philips also when I was 7 or 8 in Beaumont Texas. I'm 1957 vintage also.


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Lothar baier
 

The kits i had sound like what you described with the pillar springs and sheets schematic, the only difference was the kits i had used blue plastic boards that had a little console attached which contained a speaker , pot and a variable capacitor

On Mar 20, 2022, at 09:16, Lothar baier via groups.io <Lothar@...> wrote:

?Lol no its a different JBC
On Mar 20, 2022, at 05:51, Paul Bicknell via groups.io <admin@...> wrote:

?Hi
wasn't the EE20 the ad on set with speaker and a lot more components
wish I still had it as it was an inspiration for lots my age into electronics

Paul




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner
Sent: 19 March 2022 22:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Ditto. I still have few bits of my EE20 knocking around.

I presume you have seen

and


I don't have any of the concentrated HCl + iron sulphate my father bought home on the bus, but I do have some lumps of sodium - and the red hot (soldering) poker.

On 19/03/22 19:44, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Adrian

I think I must be a few years younger than you as I was born in !957 I
started learning with the Philips electronic kits think it was called
EE8 at the age of 10 but already dismantled a TV during one holiday
when I was about 6

Regards Paul located south coast England


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Nicol
Sent: 19 March 2022 19:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

I also grew up in the UK and was at secondary school (age 11-16) in the early 1960s and had the same experience as Paul, because I went to a village college we also had 2 hours a week of what was known as 'Rural Science' added to the other practical subjects, we had just over half an acre of cultivated land, a small fruit orchard and a couple of large glasshouses where we got to put farming theory into practice (and took our share of the fruit and veg harvest home!). All practical subjects were taught with the view that we would likely be getting jobs that would need those skills for real too, so we got 'work experience' weeks from time to time where we were sent off to local companies for a week and worked on the shop floor. The result was mostly a whole bunch of very employable 16 year old kids leaving school with the basic skills and confidence to set us up for life.

Oh yes, my first soldering was done with a fire-heated iron too, Dad gave me a crystal set kit for my 8th birthday and we sat up building it that night, heating the iron on the kitchen coal fire. Strange, that must have been March 1957 and I still remember that night so clearly!

Adrian

On 19/03/2022 18:41, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Dave regarding good quality tools and how to use them

In the UK when I was at school we had a minimum of 1 and a half
hours per week of Metalwork , Woodwork , Technical drawing (total 5
Hours minimum ) this all changed and a new subject called ICT
relapsed it all with less than 2 hours a week by a teacher that was
not able to do the subject

So we ended up with a generation that never learnt how to use any
tools until they went to collage subsequently we have a generation
between 33 to 40 that are dangerous with a tool I also had to teach
several electronic and mechanical graduates that had their degree
how to solder

Personally I had a screw driver in my hand from the age of 5 and
bought my first electric soldering iron with my 10 birthday money as
I had difficulty soldering Jack plugs with an iron I had to worm up
on the gas stove

And by the time I was 19 it was worn out and I replaced it with a
Weller that is still good 40 years later ( several new parts ) I must
admit it is difficult to convince someone 10 sets of plyers in my
draw will cost ?600 to replace when they think they are worth ?30 and
?40 would be to expensive

Regards Paul





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave
McGuire
Sent: 19 March 2022 15:54
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

On 3/19/22 01:55, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Hey, bad-mood-Dave!
Well it's good to be known for something, at least. :-)

Children takes the bad quality chinese crap because of price. I was
(still I am, surely) a very poor guy and had to use bad quality
tools in my childhood. And suffered the effects on that. When I went "pro"
I understood the value of good, quality and expensive tools. My
first weller soldering iron I got when I was 15, and I still use it!
:-)

But for hobby...not everyone can afford an E8285A. I have one just
because I got it for free. Around $2000 here in Brazil, too
expensive fot 98% of all us Brazilians

I am happy children are buying crap tools. In the past theu couldn't
afford anything. Been there...
I see your point. I think (and my thoughts on this are evolving with the help of this conversation) that the biggest problem I have is the younger folk not understanding or believing when/if these cheap Chinese instruments are inferior.

"Hahahaa, you're dumb, you spend thousands of dollars for an oscilloscope, but I got one for thirty bucks!!" They're all equivalent in the eyes of many of these people, it seems.

My thinking is that, whenever possible, we should be mindful of WHY people like us have respect for high-end equipment, and impart that knowledge to the younger generations, so they can appreciate them too.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

































Re: Protecting Equipment

Lothar baier
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Its not really a problem in real life since most DC blocks only have capacitors that are 100n or lower, the short current pulse doesn¡¯t hurt anything!



On Mar 20, 2022, at 06:52, Matt Huszagh via groups.io <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:

?It's worth adding that a DC block only provides some measure of safety. The ramp up voltage of a DC signal is an AC signal and can pass right through your series cap. If you look at DC blocking filter designs like the HP 3048A option K23, there's a limiter after the series cap. It seems like the "right" devices for this sort of thing are RF power limiters. Unfortunately, the cost of many of these devices new from reputable manufacturers probably matches or exceeds what many people paid for their second-hand spectrum analyzer. Maybe there are good second-hand market options, but I haven't looked into to it. If you want something to reliably protect a low frequency SA, that shouldn't be too hard to design and build. But, if you want to get the full 22 GHz range out of your 8566, I expect that wouldn't be so easy.


Moderated Re: Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper

 

Hi all,

just for information, there are 2 (TWO!) 8644A in good shape offered on a popular internet auction site.
Search for item #334365530011. Only drawback: pickup only, in the eastern part of Germany.

cheers
Martin


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Lothar baier
 

Lol no its a different JBC

On Mar 20, 2022, at 05:51, Paul Bicknell via groups.io <admin@...> wrote:

?Hi
wasn't the EE20 the ad on set with speaker and a lot more components
wish I still had it as it was an inspiration for lots my age into electronics

Paul




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner
Sent: 19 March 2022 22:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Ditto. I still have few bits of my EE20 knocking around.

I presume you have seen

and


I don't have any of the concentrated HCl + iron sulphate my father bought home on the bus, but I do have some lumps of sodium - and the red hot (soldering) poker.

On 19/03/22 19:44, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Adrian

I think I must be a few years younger than you as I was born in !957 I
started learning with the Philips electronic kits think it was called
EE8 at the age of 10 but already dismantled a TV during one holiday
when I was about 6

Regards Paul located south coast England


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Nicol
Sent: 19 March 2022 19:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

I also grew up in the UK and was at secondary school (age 11-16) in the early 1960s and had the same experience as Paul, because I went to a village college we also had 2 hours a week of what was known as 'Rural Science' added to the other practical subjects, we had just over half an acre of cultivated land, a small fruit orchard and a couple of large glasshouses where we got to put farming theory into practice (and took our share of the fruit and veg harvest home!). All practical subjects were taught with the view that we would likely be getting jobs that would need those skills for real too, so we got 'work experience' weeks from time to time where we were sent off to local companies for a week and worked on the shop floor. The result was mostly a whole bunch of very employable 16 year old kids leaving school with the basic skills and confidence to set us up for life.

Oh yes, my first soldering was done with a fire-heated iron too, Dad gave me a crystal set kit for my 8th birthday and we sat up building it that night, heating the iron on the kitchen coal fire. Strange, that must have been March 1957 and I still remember that night so clearly!

Adrian

On 19/03/2022 18:41, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Dave regarding good quality tools and how to use them

In the UK when I was at school we had a minimum of 1 and a half
hours per week of Metalwork , Woodwork , Technical drawing (total 5
Hours minimum ) this all changed and a new subject called ICT
relapsed it all with less than 2 hours a week by a teacher that was
not able to do the subject

So we ended up with a generation that never learnt how to use any
tools until they went to collage subsequently we have a generation
between 33 to 40 that are dangerous with a tool I also had to teach
several electronic and mechanical graduates that had their degree
how to solder

Personally I had a screw driver in my hand from the age of 5 and
bought my first electric soldering iron with my 10 birthday money as
I had difficulty soldering Jack plugs with an iron I had to worm up
on the gas stove

And by the time I was 19 it was worn out and I replaced it with a
Weller that is still good 40 years later ( several new parts ) I must
admit it is difficult to convince someone 10 sets of plyers in my
draw will cost ?600 to replace when they think they are worth ?30 and
?40 would be to expensive

Regards Paul





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave
McGuire
Sent: 19 March 2022 15:54
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

On 3/19/22 01:55, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Hey, bad-mood-Dave!
Well it's good to be known for something, at least. :-)

Children takes the bad quality chinese crap because of price. I was
(still I am, surely) a very poor guy and had to use bad quality
tools in my childhood. And suffered the effects on that. When I went "pro"
I understood the value of good, quality and expensive tools. My
first weller soldering iron I got when I was 15, and I still use it!
:-)

But for hobby...not everyone can afford an E8285A. I have one just
because I got it for free. Around $2000 here in Brazil, too
expensive fot 98% of all us Brazilians

I am happy children are buying crap tools. In the past theu couldn't
afford anything. Been there...
I see your point. I think (and my thoughts on this are evolving with the help of this conversation) that the biggest problem I have is the younger folk not understanding or believing when/if these cheap Chinese instruments are inferior.

"Hahahaa, you're dumb, you spend thousands of dollars for an oscilloscope, but I got one for thirty bucks!!" They're all equivalent in the eyes of many of these people, it seems.

My thinking is that, whenever possible, we should be mindful of WHY people like us have respect for high-end equipment, and impart that knowledge to the younger generations, so they can appreciate them too.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA






























Re: Agilent 3458A Troubleshooting

 

If you haven't seen it yet, Illya Tsemenko (xDevs) has done extensive work on these machines and documented the process thoroughly. See for example . I think there are other posts too.

Good luck.
Matt


Re: Protecting Equipment

 

It's worth adding that a DC block only provides some measure of safety. The ramp up voltage of a DC signal is an AC signal and can pass right through your series cap. If you look at DC blocking filter designs like the HP 3048A option K23, there's a limiter after the series cap. It seems like the "right" devices for this sort of thing are RF power limiters. Unfortunately, the cost of many of these devices new from reputable manufacturers probably matches or exceeds what many people paid for their second-hand spectrum analyzer. Maybe there are good second-hand market options, but I haven't looked into to it. If you want something to reliably protect a low frequency SA, that shouldn't be too hard to design and build. But, if you want to get the full 22 GHz range out of your 8566, I expect that wouldn't be so easy.


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

Hi Lothar

I do remember the kits you are talking about but different to the Phillips EE8 / EE20 kits
As they had a wooden board and you placed the cardboard lay of the circuit you where to build
Onto the Board then inserted the connecter pillars from underneath and springs on top

The big difference the Philips kit is the lead connections, all were held to gather with pressure from a spring
I think the other make of kit the spring cared the current as wires where pushed into the coils of the spring

In fact there seems to be vireos variations to the same kit the EE8 starter kit I had did not have a speaker but it appears later on they did
So was limited with only a little earphone fortunately I found a speaker at the toy shop and the following birthday I had the EE20

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: 20 March 2022 00:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

When you talking about phillips EE kits are you talking about the things that used the blue hole plates and springs to clip the parts ?
On Mar 19, 2022, at 19:35, Lothar baier via groups.io <Lothar@...> wrote:

?Back when i was a kit there were no cheap tools , in Germany we had all small local stores selling tools and all of it was name brand quality stuff .
As far as soldering irons concerned ERSA was the common name but you had to either go to CONRAD or order the iron, weller was mostly used by commercial users and out if reach for hobbyists at the time .
Dad bought me a ERSA soldering station for Christmas when i was 12 and granny got hit up mostly for hand tools usually as birthday presents.
I got aquainted with weller at my first job and then bought a rework
station through my place of employment mostly because they got a hell
of a discount, i stayed loyal to weller until i got a job at Nokia ,
they used JBC and once i used one of their stations I ditched weller
On Mar 19, 2022, at 15:52, Adrian Nicol via groups.io <Adrian@...> wrote:

?Hi Paul, yes 1949 for me!

My Dad was at the Cavendish Labs in Cambridge so I got to cut my teeth on all sorts of discarded electronic bits and pieces, when I was about 12 he got a lift back in the Cavendish van with a vast, non-functional Cossor 1049 'scope "to see if I could fix it" - on reflection, should you really give a 12 year old a box with a beefy 400V HT and a 4KV half Amp EHT supply and suggest he pokes around inside it? - as it happened it was easy to fix and two gassey valves and a burnt out pot later I had my first scope (or 'Oscillograph' as it was actually called) It's still out in the barn somewhere, I should dig it out and see if it can be fired up one day - it had a very pretty blue phosphor in the tube I seem to recall and probably emits a lifetimes X-ray radiation dose in about 8 hours!

First TV I fixed was a neighbour's Pye VT4 when I was about 14 I think, I got my first real mains electric shock on that too, learnt a valuable lesson about never assume always check! It was out of it's case sitting on my bench and I'd been getting ready to put it back before leaving for school. When got back, picked the chassis up to slide it into the case and ...Bam!... really got zapped but I knew I'd unplugged it before I left that morning. Of course what I didn't know was that my mum had plugged it back in to show the neighbour how it was now all working.....we both learnt from that, she still dined out on how she nearly killed her son when she was in her 90's bless her.

Adrian

On 19/03/2022 19:44, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Adrian

I think I must be a few years younger than you as I was born in !957
I started learning with the Philips electronic kits think it was
called EE8 at the age of 10 but already dismantled a TV during one
holiday when I was about 6

Regards Paul located south coast England

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Nicol
Sent: 19 March 2022 19:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

I also grew up in the UK and was at secondary school (age 11-16) in the early 1960s and had the same experience as Paul, because I went to a village college we also had 2 hours a week of what was known as 'Rural Science' added to the other practical subjects, we had just over half an acre of cultivated land, a small fruit orchard and a couple of large glasshouses where we got to put farming theory into practice (and took our share of the fruit and veg harvest home!). All practical subjects were taught with the view that we would likely be getting jobs that would need those skills for real too, so we got 'work experience' weeks from time to time where we were sent off to local companies for a week and worked on the shop floor. The result was mostly a whole bunch of very employable 16 year old kids leaving school with the basic skills and confidence to set us up for life.

Oh yes, my first soldering was done with a fire-heated iron too, Dad gave me a crystal set kit for my 8th birthday and we sat up building it that night, heating the iron on the kitchen coal fire. Strange, that must have been March 1957 and I still remember that night so clearly!

Adrian

On 19/03/2022 18:41, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Dave regarding good quality tools and how to use them

In the UK when I was at school we had a minimum of 1 and a half
hours per week of Metalwork , Woodwork , Technical drawing (total
5 Hours minimum ) this all changed and a new subject called ICT
relapsed it all with less than 2 hours a week by a teacher that
was not able to do the subject

So we ended up with a generation that never learnt how to use any
tools until they went to collage subsequently we have a generation
between 33 to 40 that are dangerous with a tool I also had to teach
several electronic and mechanical graduates that had their degree
how to solder

Personally I had a screw driver in my hand from the age of 5 and
bought my first electric soldering iron with my 10 birthday money
as I had difficulty soldering Jack plugs with an iron I had to worm
up on the gas stove

And by the time I was 19 it was worn out and I replaced it with a
Weller that is still good 40 years later ( several new parts ) I
must admit it is difficult to convince someone 10 sets of plyers
in my draw will cost ?600 to replace when they think they are worth
?30 and
?40 would be to expensive

Regards Paul





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave
McGuire
Sent: 19 March 2022 15:54
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

On 3/19/22 01:55, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Hey, bad-mood-Dave!
Well it's good to be known for something, at least. :-)

Children takes the bad quality chinese crap because of price. I
was (still I am, surely) a very poor guy and had to use bad
quality tools in my childhood. And suffered the effects on that. When I went "pro"
I understood the value of good, quality and expensive tools. My
first weller soldering iron I got when I was 15, and I still use it!
:-)

But for hobby...not everyone can afford an E8285A. I have one just
because I got it for free. Around $2000 here in Brazil, too
expensive fot 98% of all us Brazilians

I am happy children are buying crap tools. In the past theu
couldn't afford anything. Been there...
I see your point. I think (and my thoughts on this are evolving with the help of this conversation) that the biggest problem I have is the younger folk not understanding or believing when/if these cheap Chinese instruments are inferior.

"Hahahaa, you're dumb, you spend thousands of dollars for an oscilloscope, but I got one for thirty bucks!!" They're all equivalent in the eyes of many of these people, it seems.

My thinking is that, whenever possible, we should be mindful of WHY people like us have respect for high-end equipment, and impart that knowledge to the younger generations, so they can appreciate them too.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


























Re: Youtube video HP service center in the 90th

 

PTT Telecom BV Kootwijk's 8562A S/N 3029A05239 was the star of the show.

I wonder where it is now?

On 18/03/22 02:24, Rik Bos wrote:
This is a promo video from HP about their service center in the Netherlands.
With thanks to Frans Koek who provided the video.
<>
Lots of equipment and computers have fun.
-Rik


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

Hi
wasn't the EE20 the ad on set with speaker and a lot more components
wish I still had it as it was an inspiration for lots my age into electronics

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner
Sent: 19 March 2022 22:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Ditto. I still have few bits of my EE20 knocking around.

I presume you have seen

and


I don't have any of the concentrated HCl + iron sulphate my father bought home on the bus, but I do have some lumps of sodium - and the red hot (soldering) poker.

On 19/03/22 19:44, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Adrian

I think I must be a few years younger than you as I was born in !957 I
started learning with the Philips electronic kits think it was called
EE8 at the age of 10 but already dismantled a TV during one holiday
when I was about 6

Regards Paul located south coast England


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Nicol
Sent: 19 March 2022 19:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

I also grew up in the UK and was at secondary school (age 11-16) in the early 1960s and had the same experience as Paul, because I went to a village college we also had 2 hours a week of what was known as 'Rural Science' added to the other practical subjects, we had just over half an acre of cultivated land, a small fruit orchard and a couple of large glasshouses where we got to put farming theory into practice (and took our share of the fruit and veg harvest home!). All practical subjects were taught with the view that we would likely be getting jobs that would need those skills for real too, so we got 'work experience' weeks from time to time where we were sent off to local companies for a week and worked on the shop floor. The result was mostly a whole bunch of very employable 16 year old kids leaving school with the basic skills and confidence to set us up for life.

Oh yes, my first soldering was done with a fire-heated iron too, Dad gave me a crystal set kit for my 8th birthday and we sat up building it that night, heating the iron on the kitchen coal fire. Strange, that must have been March 1957 and I still remember that night so clearly!

Adrian

On 19/03/2022 18:41, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Dave regarding good quality tools and how to use them

In the UK when I was at school we had a minimum of 1 and a half
hours per week of Metalwork , Woodwork , Technical drawing (total 5
Hours minimum ) this all changed and a new subject called ICT
relapsed it all with less than 2 hours a week by a teacher that was
not able to do the subject

So we ended up with a generation that never learnt how to use any
tools until they went to collage subsequently we have a generation
between 33 to 40 that are dangerous with a tool I also had to teach
several electronic and mechanical graduates that had their degree
how to solder

Personally I had a screw driver in my hand from the age of 5 and
bought my first electric soldering iron with my 10 birthday money as
I had difficulty soldering Jack plugs with an iron I had to worm up
on the gas stove

And by the time I was 19 it was worn out and I replaced it with a
Weller that is still good 40 years later ( several new parts ) I must
admit it is difficult to convince someone 10 sets of plyers in my
draw will cost ?600 to replace when they think they are worth ?30 and
?40 would be to expensive

Regards Paul





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave
McGuire
Sent: 19 March 2022 15:54
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

On 3/19/22 01:55, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Hey, bad-mood-Dave!
Well it's good to be known for something, at least. :-)

Children takes the bad quality chinese crap because of price. I was
(still I am, surely) a very poor guy and had to use bad quality
tools in my childhood. And suffered the effects on that. When I went "pro"
I understood the value of good, quality and expensive tools. My
first weller soldering iron I got when I was 15, and I still use it!
:-)

But for hobby...not everyone can afford an E8285A. I have one just
because I got it for free. Around $2000 here in Brazil, too
expensive fot 98% of all us Brazilians

I am happy children are buying crap tools. In the past theu couldn't
afford anything. Been there...
I see your point. I think (and my thoughts on this are evolving with the help of this conversation) that the biggest problem I have is the younger folk not understanding or believing when/if these cheap Chinese instruments are inferior.

"Hahahaa, you're dumb, you spend thousands of dollars for an oscilloscope, but I got one for thirty bucks!!" They're all equivalent in the eyes of many of these people, it seems.

My thinking is that, whenever possible, we should be mindful of WHY people like us have respect for high-end equipment, and impart that knowledge to the younger generations, so they can appreciate them too.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA




















Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz

 

Hello Gerald,
?
Interesting discussion, and thank you for this work. It's indeed a shame that such nice analyzers as the HP8560/90 series has this common issue. I have an HP-8561E with a dead YIG.
I looked at your comparison table, and I think there is a mistake in the main coil tuning sensitivity.
From an old datasheet of the HP YIG that someone posted here, the main coil sensitivity is 22/23/24 mA/GHz, not MHz/mA. So converting to MHz/mA (the inverse), this would make the sensitivity 40.8/43.5/45.5 MHz/mA. An even bigger difference from the Teledyne YIG.
I also considered various replacement YIGs, and I bought an Avantek one on eBay just to play around with, but that one has a sensitivity of 19.5MHz/mA and a coil resistance of about 10 ohm, so also a bad fit.
Also, I think what makes replacement difficult is the way that the HP8560 series do the sweep. From the manual, it says that a 'lock and roll' method is used for sweeping that involves an open loop sweep. For sweeps larger than 20 MHz, the main coil YTO is swept open loop. For sweeps between 2 and 20 MHz, the FM coil is swept open loop, and for sweeps smaller then 2 MHz, the Fractional-N PLL is swept in lock. In my understanding, this means that the coil sensitivities (Main and FM) must appear to the analyzer as being the same as the original YIG.?
So far, I have been weary of spending 1,000 USD for a replacement YIG, so I am happy to hear any other suggestions you folks may have in this thread.
?
BR?
Peter OZ1CPQ


Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

 

JCB Dave

On Sunday, March 20, 2022, 06:45:34 AM GMT, Dave Seiter <d.seiter@...> wrote:


JBC- isn't that the British heavy equipment company? (backhoes, bulldozers and such)

-Dave

On Saturday, March 19, 2022, 05:35:04 PM PDT, Lothar baier <lothar@...> wrote:


Back when i was a kit there were no cheap tools , in Germany we had all small local stores selling tools and all of it was name brand quality stuff .
As far as soldering irons concerned ERSA was the common name but you had to either go to CONRAD or order the iron, weller was mostly used by commercial users and out if reach for hobbyists at the time .
Dad bought me a ERSA soldering station for Christmas when i was 12 and granny got hit up mostly for hand tools usually as birthday presents.
I got aquainted with weller at my first job and then bought a rework station through my place of employment mostly because they got a hell of a discount, i stayed loyal to weller until i got a job at Nokia , they used JBC and once i used one of their stations I ditched weller
> On Mar 19, 2022, at 15:52, Adrian Nicol via groups.io <Adrian=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?Hi Paul, yes 1949 for me!
>
> My Dad was at the Cavendish Labs in Cambridge so I got to cut my teeth on all sorts of discarded electronic bits and pieces, when I was about 12 he got a lift back in the Cavendish van with a vast, non-functional Cossor 1049 'scope "to see if I could fix it" - on reflection, should you really give a 12 year old a box with a beefy 400V HT and a 4KV half Amp EHT supply and suggest he pokes around inside it? - as it happened it was easy to fix and two gassey valves and a burnt out pot later I had my first scope (or 'Oscillograph' as it was actually called) It's still out in the barn somewhere, I should dig it out and see if it can be fired up one day - it had a very pretty blue phosphor in the tube I seem to recall and probably emits a lifetimes X-ray radiation dose in about 8 hours!
>
> First TV I fixed was a neighbour's Pye VT4 when I was about 14 I think, I got my first real mains electric shock on that too, learnt a valuable lesson about never assume always check! It was out of it's case sitting on my bench and I'd been getting ready to put it back before leaving for school. When got back, picked the chassis up to slide it into the case and ...Bam!... really got zapped but I knew I'd unplugged it before I left that morning. Of course what I didn't know was that my mum had plugged it back in to show the neighbour? how it was now all working.....we both learnt from that, she still dined out on how she nearly killed her son when she was in her 90's bless her.
>
> Adrian
>
>> On 19/03/2022 19:44, Paul Bicknell wrote:
>> Hi Adrian
>>
>> I think I must be a few years younger than you as I was born in !957
>> I started learning with the Philips electronic kits think it was called EE8 at the age of 10 but already dismantled a TV during one holiday when I was about 6
>>
>> Regards Paul? located south coast England
>>?

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian Nicol
>> Sent: 19 March 2022 19:32
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
>>
>> I also grew up in the UK and was at secondary school (age 11-16) in the early 1960s and had the same experience as Paul, because I went to a village college we also had 2 hours a week of what was known as 'Rural Science' added to the other practical subjects, we had just over half an acre of cultivated land, a small fruit orchard and a couple of large glasshouses where we got to put farming theory into practice (and took our share of the fruit and veg harvest home!). All practical subjects were taught with the view that we would likely be getting jobs that would need those skills for real too, so we got 'work experience' weeks from time to time where we were sent off to local companies for a week and worked on the shop floor. The result was mostly a whole bunch of very employable 16 year old kids leaving school with the basic skills and confidence to set us up for life.
>>
>> Oh yes, my first soldering was done with a fire-heated iron too, Dad gave me a crystal set kit for my 8th birthday and we sat up building it that night, heating the iron on the kitchen coal fire. Strange, that must have been March 1957 and I still remember that night so clearly!
>>
>> Adrian
>>
>>> On 19/03/2022 18:41, Paul Bicknell wrote:
>>> Hi Dave regarding? good quality tools and how to use them
>>>
>>> In the UK when I was at school we had a minimum of 1? and a half
>>> hours per week of Metalwork , Woodwork , Technical drawing? (total? 5
>>> Hours minimum ) this all changed and a new subject called ICT
>>> relapsed it all with less than 2 hours a week? by a teacher that was
>>> not able to do the subject
>>>
>>> So we ended up with a generation that never learnt how to use any
>>> tools until they went to collage subsequently we have a generation
>>> between 33 to 40 that are dangerous with a tool I also had to teach
>>> several? electronic and mechanical graduates that had their degree how
>>> to solder
>>>
>>> Personally I had a screw driver in my hand from the age of 5 and
>>> bought my first electric soldering iron with my 10 birthday money as I
>>> had difficulty soldering Jack plugs with an iron I had to worm up on
>>> the gas stove
>>>
>>> And by the time I was 19 it was worn out and I replaced it with a
>>> Weller that is still good 40 years later ( several new parts ) I must
>>> admit it is difficult to convince someone 10? sets of plyers? in my
>>> draw will cost ?600 to replace when they think they are worth ?30 and
>>> ?40 would be to expensive
>>>
>>> Regards Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave
>>> McGuire
>>> Sent: 19 March 2022 15:54
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
>>>
>>> On 3/19/22 01:55, Alexandre Souza wrote:
>>>> Hey, bad-mood-Dave!
>>>? ? Well it's good to be known for something, at least. :-)
>>>
>>>> Children takes the bad quality chinese crap because of price. I was
>>>> (still I am, surely) a very poor guy and had to use bad quality tools
>>>> in my childhood. And suffered the effects on that. When I went "pro"
>>>> I understood the value of good, quality and expensive tools. My first
>>>> weller soldering iron I got when I was 15, and I still use it!
>>>? ? :-)
>>>
>>>> But for hobby...not everyone can afford an E8285A. I have one just
>>>> because I got it for free. Around $2000 here in Brazil, too expensive
>>>> fot 98% of all us Brazilians
>>>>
>>>> I am happy children are buying crap tools. In the past theu couldn't
>>>> afford anything. Been there...
>>>? ? I see your point.? I think (and my thoughts on this are evolving with the help of this conversation) that the biggest problem I have is the younger folk not understanding or believing when/if these cheap Chinese instruments are inferior.
>>>
>>>? ? "Hahahaa, you're dumb, you spend thousands of dollars for an oscilloscope, but I got one for thirty bucks!!"? They're all equivalent in the eyes of many of these people, it seems.
>>>
>>>? ? My thinking is that, whenever possible, we should be mindful of WHY people like us have respect for high-end equipment, and impart that knowledge to the younger generations, so they can appreciate them too.
>>>
>>>? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
>>> New Kensington, PA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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