On 3/17/22 21:16, Lothar baier wrote:
> Nowadays things are different , good luck trying to get kids interested
> in electronics or ham radio they rather spend time on social media ,

? ?Wrong.? Electronics as a hobby is far, far larger than it has ever
been an ANY time in the past.? You're apparently not looking in the
right places.? It is DIFFERENT now, and that's ok.? Kids aren't winding
coils on Quaker Oats cans and screwing Fahnestock clips down to pieces
of wood (well, some are, but not as many as there were in the 1950s),
but plenty of young people are "doing electronics", and they're doing it
just fine.

? ?Further, amateur radio is alive and well.? I suggest that you look up
the statistics on issuance of licenses.

? ?It's very common for older people to say things like this, all the
time, all over the place.? I hear old farts complaining at each other at
hamfest "this hobby's DYIN'!", over and over.? They've not looked at the
licensing statistics either.

? ?I expect that the same goes for our topic of discussion here, test
equipment.? Though too many of these kids don't recognize high-quality
test equipment when they see it, with the "nano" "oscilloscopes" and
such flooding the market for a few tens of dollars.? It's up to us to
EDUCATE them and help them understand.

? ?Not sit on a mailing list spouting "woe is me, everything I love is
disappearing" when, in reality, it really isn't.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave, getting into a very bad mood

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

?

?

Eventually dad bought a etch tank from isel , it used a different
cchemical (ammonia persulphate ) and the agitation was done by the
means of air bubbles generated by a airpump ! The problem with ferric
chloride was that while it worked great for most boards dad did I had
issues with under etching on my microwave boards

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Zentronics42
via groups.io Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 6:27 PM To:
[email protected] Subject: Re: BS, was Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

I still etch with ferric chloride here at the house. But I do use an
earth sciences Hot shaker table with a water bath rather than food
prep area. So at least some improvement.

Zen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 6:55 PM To:
[email protected] Subject: Re: BS, was Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric
chloride solution on the kitchen stove

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:

Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you
seem to collect things like names. I have gone by Zenwizard on line
for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however
there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off
topic story there).

Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never
did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is
a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use
of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but
just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.

Either way, welcome!

I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even
now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have
recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper
spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my
10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going
well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave
equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am
in to the expensive toys it seems.

RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into.
But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any
two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient,
but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If
we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No
thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if
you're lucky.

Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good
signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would
probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to
come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power
meter.

As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of
it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two
to talk to each other in some way. I'll also be taking two students
to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be
the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?

Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally
blown by that, they might survive! B-)

I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but
you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;)
I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you
might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend
that Hamvention road trip.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

?

?

Hi, I have 8350B ver7 with 83595A with version 3, have you found
firmware V7 for plugin 83595A ?

Is there a version 7 for this plugin?

*De :*[email protected]
<[email protected]> *De la part de* Yue *Envoyé
:* 8 novembre 2021 22:22 *? :* [email protected]
*Objet :* [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM
firmware required

Hello!

Any one has an 83595 plugin (HP 8350) with firmware rev.7 ? I need the
U1 U2 ROM contents to make it work with 8510B. At this moment I only
found the rev. 4 on KO4BB, and seems only the rev.7 work with 8510B.

If you got an 83595 with firmware rev.7 please upload the ROM content
to KO4BB, and/or let me know.

Thanks lot !

p.s to check the plugin firmware revision: switch 8510B on [ shift ]
[
99 ]. Look the number shows on the plugin display.

If you do edge coupled microstrip filters or directional couplers than
the accuracy of the gaps is very important but another aspect that has
to be considered is the roughness of the edges

If you do edge coupled microstrip filters or directional couplers than
the accuracy of the gaps is very important but another aspect that has
to be considered is the roughness of the edges

On Mar 18, 2022, at 21:04, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 21:57, Bryce Schroeder wrote:

Yes, it can hold 50 micron / 2 thou trace separation. I am in the
(slow) process of preparing a complete tutorial and open-source
tool chain. (It works, but actually using it at this point is quite
an undertaking for software reasons. I only just last year reverse
engineered the proprietary protocol used by the engraver:
) The calibration process is
also somewhat involved, but it's important (I imagine especially if
you are doing microwave filters and other things where the
dimensions are highly critical to be accurate not just precise.)

Nice! I'll look forward to your tutorial.

The engraver I'm using is an inexpensive (relatively) Chinese one.
They don't really have a brand name, but the control board is
Beijing Golden Orange (Bejing JCZ) and the laser source is usually
JPT or Raycus. A 20W one will work fine though 30 or 50 W should be faster.
They cost $2-3 grand, though, so this may be cost prohibitive if
you don't do a lot of PCBs.

I design probably twenty PCBs per year, so in-house prototypes would be a big deal here. I just try to interleave my tasks so OshPark's two-week delay doesn't impact me too much, but every now and then clients demand faster service. $2-3K would be difficult right now, since production runs have basically stopped due to component availability issues, but hopefully that will clear up before too long.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

If you do edge coupled microstrip filters or directional couplers than
the accuracy of the gaps is very important but another aspect that has
to be considered is the roughness of the edges

?

On 3/18/22 22:19, Lothar baier wrote:
> If you do edge coupled microstrip filters or directional couplers than the accuracy of the gaps is very important but another aspect that has to be considered is the roughness of the edges

?? Yes.? There's a great deal of activity in building replacement boards
and modules for instruments like ours (trying to bring this further
on-topic), so if the results there are adequate, this does open up some
possibilities.? One thing that causes trouble with the more affordable
board houses is that sometimes they change substrate compositions, so
the published dielectric constant isn't always something you can count on.

??????????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On Mar 18, 2022, at 21:19, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?If you do edge coupled microstrip filters or directional couplers than the accuracy of the gaps is very important but another aspect that has to be considered is the roughness of the edges

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2022, at 21:04, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 21:57, Bryce Schroeder wrote:
Yes, it can hold 50 micron / 2 thou trace separation. I am in the
(slow) process of preparing a complete tutorial and open-source tool
chain. (It works, but actually using it at this point is quite an
undertaking for software reasons. I only just last year reverse
engineered the proprietary protocol used by the engraver:
) The calibration process is also
somewhat involved, but it's important (I imagine especially if you are
doing microwave filters and other things where the dimensions are
highly critical to be accurate not just precise.)

Nice! I'll look forward to your tutorial.

The engraver I'm using is an inexpensive (relatively) Chinese one.
They don't really have a brand name, but the control board is Beijing
Golden Orange (Bejing JCZ) and the laser source is usually JPT or
Raycus. A 20W one will work fine though 30 or 50 W should be faster.
They cost $2-3 grand, though, so this may be cost prohibitive if you
don't do a lot of PCBs.

I design probably twenty PCBs per year, so in-house prototypes would be a big deal here. I just try to interleave my tasks so OshPark's two-week delay doesn't impact me too much, but every now and then clients demand faster service. $2-3K would be difficult right now, since production runs have basically stopped due to component availability issues, but hopefully that will clear up before too long.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On 3/18/22 22:14, Lothar baier wrote:

Would be interesting to look at the edges of the traces under a Microscope or SEM and compare against etched boards

I have an SEM in my lab. Bryce, if you can send me over a small
sample, I'd be glad to do some imaging.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

If you do edge coupled microstrip filters or directional couplers than the accuracy of the gaps is very important but another aspect that has to be considered is the roughness of the edges

On Mar 18, 2022, at 21:04, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 21:57, Bryce Schroeder wrote:

Yes, it can hold 50 micron / 2 thou trace separation. I am in the
(slow) process of preparing a complete tutorial and open-source tool
chain. (It works, but actually using it at this point is quite an
undertaking for software reasons. I only just last year reverse
engineered the proprietary protocol used by the engraver:
) The calibration process is also
somewhat involved, but it's important (I imagine especially if you are
doing microwave filters and other things where the dimensions are
highly critical to be accurate not just precise.)

Nice! I'll look forward to your tutorial.

The engraver I'm using is an inexpensive (relatively) Chinese one.
They don't really have a brand name, but the control board is Beijing
Golden Orange (Bejing JCZ) and the laser source is usually JPT or
Raycus. A 20W one will work fine though 30 or 50 W should be faster.
They cost $2-3 grand, though, so this may be cost prohibitive if you
don't do a lot of PCBs.

I design probably twenty PCBs per year, so in-house prototypes would be a big deal here. I just try to interleave my tasks so OshPark's two-week delay doesn't impact me too much, but every now and then clients demand faster service. $2-3K would be difficult right now, since production runs have basically stopped due to component availability issues, but hopefully that will clear up before too long.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA