On Mar 18, 2025, at 8:38?AM, Ed Marciniak via groups.io <ed@...> wrote:

?

I recall someone telling me that special function will not work with a ~6db ENR source

Let me do a +1 for the Metcal soldering station suggestion. I have 2 older MX500 stations, those are the 13.5MHz version. Two-handed soldering can be quite useful and works fine using my full optical, prisma equipped stereo microscope (no LCD, no electronics, just glassware ;-)
Do note that the cartridges/tips used determine the tip temperature (essentially the Curie temperature of the tip), no adjustment necessary or possible. They are relatively costly, especially for specialised tips. I was very lucky to find a large stash of tips advertised in Germany, which I bought a substantial part of for real good prices. In retrospect, I have bough the whole lot..
Wilko

I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.

I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.

I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.

if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD.? That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.

that?might?help?a?bit.

Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.

Harvey



On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:

Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.


On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:

????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave

????Hi?Radu,

????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.

????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.

????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).

????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.

????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.

????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.

????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.

????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.

????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????-- ????John Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM

?

M3.5x.6
搁别苍é别

Maybe I have the same problem as the 8656: the cover screws for the 8643 is NOT 6-32 (USA, national coarse), nor is it 6-40 (USA, national fine). The diameter is very close to USA #6, a finer thread than 32 threads per inch. It has to be some metric size that the local specialty guy did not recognize.

Thank you Goran for the idea of looking at the parts list. I will try to find an 8643 manual on line somewhere and see what it says.

Bill


On 3/17/2025 5:17 AM, G?ran Krusell via groups.io wrote:

p. 6-36. 4 * MP101, 6-32.
G?ran

?

Thank you again all - really thoughtful and comprehensive input.

I may be able to buy a Nikon SMZ645 for $250-300 or so. I wonder what you all think about that opportunity. This would come with what seems to be the C-PS160 stand (I think?...) and some sort of sizable horizontal arm - overall, it seems to be able to reach pretty freely around maybe as much as a quarter or so of my bench. This is by eyeballing pictures I received etc. Ideally, this would have a bit of autonomy around the bench, but maybe I'm asking too much from an optical microscope and should just also have a small digital wifi microscope for other inspections and other examinations,?blasting?what it sees on a large screen. I have duly registered the advice this far to focus on an optical stereo microscope - it's just that I think a small battery powered wifi microscope would add some additional functionality to the bench.

My eyes have a bunch of issues, including the fact that they're very dissimilar left to?right. I can't imagine this not being a "glasses on" type of situation. There'll be a zillion different?lens between my eyes and the subject of magnification!...
Radu.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 6:27?PM Steve Hendrix via groups.io <> <SteveHx@...> wrote:

On 2025-03-17 2:59 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> wrote:
> Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo
> microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing
glasses?

I personally wear bifocals. I take them off when using the
microscope,
to allow my eyes to get close enough to see the full field of
view. It
just shift the optimum focus for me, from what's optimum for my tech.
Not a big issue.

That approach does not, of course compensate for astigmatism, so
if you
have significant astigmatism you might do better with glasses on.

Steve Hendrix

Thank you all, great input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank you.
Radu.


On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:

On 3/17/25 07:59, Dave McGuire via groups.io <> wrote:
> On 3/17/25 00:02, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> wrote:
>> Having done enough (red) eye cracking smd soldering jobs or
inspections in case of suspected failure (cold joints, etc.), I've
>> decided to invest a bit on a better optical setup.
>> There's plenty of cameras on the marketplaces and retailers out
there, but what are some better choices? Good experiences with
>> some specific models?
>> Also, what to watch for? Specs, minimal magnification that
crosses over a good threshold?
>> I have a couple of large screens at my bench - I'm thinking
this will be best done by shooting this over to one of those. USB,
>> HDMI?...
>> Lighting/LEDs making a significant difference?
>> Thank you for your input.
>
>? ? The Mantis by Vision Engineering.
>
>? ? On the prototyping bench I moved from a Nikon SMZ-1 with an
after-market LED ring light to a 1st-generation Mantis about ten
> years ago, and upgraded to a Mantis Elite last year.
>
>? ? The Nikon is a binocular inspection microscope with great
optics (typical of Nikon) and excellent overall performance.? I had
> an opportunity to try out a Mantis when visiting a customer's
lab.? I was astonished by its capabilities and purchased one
> immediately.
>
>? ? My upgrade to the Mantis Elite last year was a similarly
impressive thing.
>
>? ? Two important considerations are binocular optical paths and
lighting.
>
>? ? Binocular optics are, IMO, absolutely required for SMT work.
>
>? ? Lighting is next.? People often skimp on this and use a
random desk lamp or whatever happens to be lying around, but a proper
> lighting system makes all the difference.? There are cheap
aftermarket LED right lights that are surprisingly effective; this
> suggests that the lighting really isn't that difficult a problem
to solve.? The key is 360-degree, oblique, even lighting to
> eliminate shadows.? (lighting is built-in on the Mantis microscopes)
>
>? ???????????? -Dave

Hi Radu,

I've got Greenough scopes (binocular) by Olympus and Vision
Engineering (precursor to Mantis), and fiber light rings and sources
to sell.

The Vision Engineering ones are kind of large, but trying an
Olympus? Greenough would be painless -- you could return it if not
liking it.

When I assemble SMT boards I use a Greenough on a boom that lets
me move with fine dials in X and Y (and of course Z for focus).

I've also tried the Vision Engineering and it would probably be a
speedup tool, but Ive not afforded enough bench top space to use
one effectively yet.

Also have Nikon SMZ-7 and a? Vision Engineering Greenough for sale.

Booms to hold them are super heavy, so looking locally makes the
most sense.

I agree with Dave, that if you want to do prototypes your speed
and quality will
improve drastically with stereo vision -- it puts your "there" in
the micro world...? Also you will notice more since flat view
onscreen doesn't translate to 3D in your mind well.

The large screens might be OK for some things, but not for active
seeing when looking for tiny cracks, missing solder, adequate
solder paste, etc.

Now to get busy cleaning and photographing the ones I mentioned...
--
John Griessen
Albuquerque NM

Maybe I have the same problem as the 8656: the cover screws for the 8643 is NOT 6-32 (USA, national coarse), nor is it 6-40 (USA, national fine). The diameter is very close to USA #6, a finer thread than 32 threads per inch. It has to be some metric size that the local specialty guy did not recognize.

Thank you Goran for the idea of looking at the parts list. I will try to find an 8643 manual on line somewhere and see what it says.

Bill


On 3/17/2025 5:17 AM, G?ran Krusell via groups.io wrote:

p. 6-36. 4 * MP101, 6-32.
G?ran