The 85097A system using a PC would be very challenging to get working.? I have seen people online trying to locate the software.
The 85097B doesn't need a PC - see attached, but the manual doesn't list 8753E as a compatible analyzer - only 8753ES.
I have the 85060C.? It works well.? There are a couple listed in the $150 range.
I have two ecal modules.? One type N and the other 3.5 mm.? I got them cheap as 'not working - parts only'
Some sellers don't realize the module will show red until it warms up - about 20 minutes.
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HP5315/5316 Option 6 question
Hi - I am curious if anyone has knowledge of the schematic/manual for the Offset/Normalizer (Option 6) for the 5315/5316A versions of the the Universal Counter.? I see that the Option 6 appears to have disappeared in the 5316B version of the counter, likely due to poor sales.? I am more curious than anything as to how the option was interfaced to the counter.? From pictures, the option was a separate unit that encased both the counter and dip switches for the option.? I have not been successful with finding the document referenced in the HP5316A manual. I would appreciate a copy of this manual if anyone is willing to share. Thanks Jim 
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Re: HP 1727A CRO: Problem with the vertical output amplifier.
This is what I got.
pin 3: 13.80V
pin 4: 13.05V
pin 5: 13.06V
pin 6: 13.83V
pin 12: 27.5V
pin 13: 27.77V
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Uh, why bother with the OCXO if you have a GPSDO?
Jim Ford
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> Date: 2/22/22 10:00 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Storage Cap Ripple
The OCXO in my 8566B was 75 Hz out and died shortly thereafter...
I found a source of NOS OCXOs - Quest Components part?OSC92-51B-10MHZ fitted my particular 8566B.? They claim to still have a few.? They'll cost $25 (minimum line item) plus shipping... a bargain compared to other sources.
I bought some extras and have been checking them out.? The latest has settled down to 9.999 999 97 MHz compared to my GPSDO after running for a couple of months.
If Quest run out, drop me a note...
Orin. ? One more quick thing - be sure the 10 MHz reference is OK, whether it's the internal OCXO, or an external source. I've had many failures of the internal reference (all oven failures) on the 8566 over the years. I've mentioned this here a number of times, and my opinion that the OCXO placement was a very poor choice, thermally speaking. It's right in the main air plenum that distributes cooling air for the whole unit, so it gets the best cooling of all, making its oven work very hard whenever the unit is running. The 8568 in contrast, has its (same model) OCXO nice and toasty, isolated in a front corner compartment.
If the reference is off frequency just a little bit - like due to oven failure - the whole system can't lock and operate.
Ed
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Thanks for sending those pictorials. This clears it up a bit for me. If that is in fact the case, then I am not sure a ecal is really worth the effort. The idea is nice, but no need to run out and buy more old H/W to support an ecal module.
Rich
On Wednesday, February 23, 2022, 10:25:22 AM EST, nj902 <wb0emu@...> wrote:
You need a controller to run the ecal module. Examples are the 85060 or 85097A.
See attached examples
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You need a controller to run the ecal module. Examples are the 85060 or 85097A.
See attached examples
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Lothar,
It probably is wired straight through. This is the situation with the serial cable on the 89441A Vector Signal Analyzer System. In that case it's a DB9 connector and is wired straight through even though the chassis/module is labeled as serial. A standard DB9 RS232 cable will not work. It confusing, but almost all HP cables are wired straight through.There are a few exceptions and some weird ones such as the MSIB cables for the 70000 instruments. Just make sure that there are no power pins from either instrument that might damage the PAL if connected incorrectly. -George
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I might have a line on a eCal Kit for my 8753E. After reviewing the manual for the eCal kit, and the manual for the 8753E I am left with a couple of questions, that the manual really did not help me understand.
There is a DB25 connector on the eCal kit. Does this simply plug right into the serial port of the 8753E. If not, how is the VNA interfaced to the eCal kit? My assumption is it must connect somehow to the instrument other than through the RF Ports, but this is not clear to me from reading the manual.
eCal kit talks a lot about specifications, and much more about mechanical tolerances, but no real interface to the instrument data. Can someone give me a brief rundown of what one might expect?
Rich
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Okay, many thanks for all the suggestions and offers of help, guys; much appreciated.
@benj3867 - Clearly this is an order of magnitude more demanding than any other bit of troubleshooting I've ever done in the past and I'm in over my head at present if what you say is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it). Two problems here: 1. I do not at this stage have a "precision mindset" (as evidenced by my failure to pick up on the? importance of narrow allowed tolerances from the stated voltages). 2. Whilst I have a ton of vintage high-end test gear, very little if any of it is listed in the HP manuals as being suitable for the kind of measurements required here. So I'm doubly disadvantaged. Whilst I could in time cultivate a precision mindset, acquiring the necessary test gear will remain a severe obstacle. On previous occasions when this kind of problem has presented, I have simply mothballed the faulty item in question and got on with other stuff until I felt I'd learned enough/gained sufficient confidence to take a fresh look at it. This technique has served me quite well in the past, too. So I'm thinking that's perhaps what I need to do at this juncture: just print out all the members' suggestions, stick them in an envelope taped to the analyser and park it up for a year or so whilst I build up my skill level further still by fixing up other stuff. Does that seem like the best approach? I can live without an RF SA for a while if I must.
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@Jinxie, I did not mean to discourage you by saying that this repair is impossible without very accurate equipment that you do not have; this is not necessarily the case, and I myself have fixed many pieces of equipment with surprisingly inadequate gear. What I did want to convey to you is the fact that the 8566B is an extremely sophisticated piece of equipment that requires a precision mindset if one wants to achieve 100% success in troubleshooting it. Assuming that the 22V rail is “good enough” when it measures +1V, and the specified allowed deviation is at most 50 times less (+20mV), did not look like a promising start.
To make my point even more concrete, as Matt said, one can sometimes get rid of the YTO unlock error by performing the “13. Sweep, DAC, and Main Coil Driver Adjustments”. One of the steps in this procedure calls for adjusting the “scan reset offset” voltage to zero with an accuracy of +-500 micro-volts.
In other words, you can not assure a successful repair without accurate gear and mindset, but you may still be lucky enough and be able to fix it with an accurate mindset and less accurate gear.
As for your comment that “no way can I meet those kind of standards...”, I do not believe that this is necessarily the case given that you also say that “I have a *ton* of high-end test gear here..” --- even if it is all vintage with unknown calibration status. For example, my experience with a few used HP 3456A meters is that they are within specs, or very close to it, many years after being last calibrated. Also, even if out-of-spec, their errors are quite consistent and they still have tons of resolution which is what counts most in this case. In other words, your 34566B will function perfectly well if it is adjusted with all voltages consistently off by the same small error: the relative voltages at different points in the circuit are more important than their absolute values (within reason of course).
Finally, if you are lucky, the problem may be simply a bad electrolytic capacitor on A20, A19 or A21. Given that you have an LCR and ESR meters, why don't you start there first?
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I’ve experienced a YTO unlock condition on both of my 8566’s: an A unit and a B unit. In both cases, performing the “13. Sweep, DAC, and Main Coil Driver Adjustments” fixed the issue for me (you’ll need the tests and adjustments manual for this). I’d try to get some sense that the instrument is otherwise functional before you start performing adjustments, though. If you change a bunch of things to compensate for a faulty component you may just end up messing up the previous (and possibly still good) calibration.
These adjustments do require additional equipment. I’d do a quick read through of the procedure first so you know what equipment you’ll need and what the process entails. With the necessary gear, most of the procedure isn’t too hard to do. However, I have found the “YTO Main Coil Driver Adjustments” a bit tricky (the frequency can take a while to settle) but doable. On the other hand, I’ve never felt like I’ve gotten a satisfactory result from the “Band Overlap Adjustments”.
Finally, just to reiterate what everyone else is saying: that ripple on the unregulated supplies seems normal to me. I measured something similar when I checked them on my A unit.
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Re: HP 1727A CRO: Problem with the vertical output amplifier.
I will be referencing the PDF manual attached below in my description of where I am as far as trouble shooting. I have narrowed the problem area down to either U1 or surrounding components (pgs. 133-134). Attached are some captures of signals present on various pins of U1, refer to the file names for extra details.
--- It is easier to debug the state of the IC from DC voltages. With no signal input, what voltages do you measure at pins 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 13? Ozan
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The OCXO in my 8566B was 75 Hz out and died shortly thereafter...
I found a source of NOS OCXOs - Quest Components part?OSC92-51B-10MHZ fitted my particular 8566B.? They claim to still have a few.? They'll cost $25 (minimum line item) plus shipping... a bargain compared to other sources.
I bought some extras and have been checking them out.? The latest has settled down to 9.999 999 97 MHz compared to my GPSDO after running for a couple of months.
If Quest run out, drop me a note...
Orin. ?
One more quick thing - be sure the 10 MHz reference is OK, whether it's the internal OCXO, or an external source. I've had many failures of the internal reference (all oven failures) on the 8566 over the years. I've mentioned this here a number of times, and my opinion that the OCXO placement was a very poor choice, thermally speaking. It's right in the main air plenum that distributes cooling air for the whole unit, so it gets the best cooling of all, making its oven work very hard whenever the unit is running. The 8568 in contrast, has its (same model) OCXO nice and toasty, isolated in a front corner compartment.
If the reference is off frequency just a little bit - like due to oven failure - the whole system can't lock and operate.
Ed
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Re: HP 8662A Keycap "BACK SPACE" needed
Hello Peter,
you could have an 8510A-style arrow keycap from me, which you could mount pointing to the left. No need to spend time on doing artwork with this solution and the unbiased eye would not even realize that this is not the original knob...
I am located in good 'ol Germany, please contact me offline if interested.
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
I don't complain about VHDL much because I've worked with the absolute epitome of "designed by committee" crapware: The digital cellular network protocols. The "AT" command set manual for the last digital cellular modem that I designed into a product was SEVEN HUNDRED pages long, and had more to do with billing than anything else.
That's not engineering. That's greed.
-Dave
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On 2/22/22 21:15, Jim Ford wrote: I figured you'd say that, Dave!
Jim
------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 2/22/2022 7:56:09 PM
Subject: Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
? Agreed 100% about VHDL!
???????? -Dave
On 2/22/22 20:54, Jim Ford wrote:
A bit later than Palasm was AHDL from Altera, since bought by Intel. Kind of nice, as one could generate fairly complex designs quickly and without the overhead BS of VHDL.? VHDL was designed by committee, and it shows.
Jim Ford
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 2/22/22 2:02 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
On 2/22/22 16:32, Jeff Anderson wrote:
?> I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's. Great
?> for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were
?> power-hogs, if I recall correctly.
??? That didn't last long, fortunately.
?> I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL.
?> Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.
??? I use PALASM today, for when I need PALs/GALs.? It's great...simple,
fast, no fluff, no BS, predictable.
?????????? -Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
I figured you'd say that, Dave!
Jim
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Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------ From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...> To: [email protected]Sent: 2/22/2022 7:56:09 PM Subject: Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
Agreed 100% about VHDL!
-Dave
On 2/22/22 20:54, Jim Ford wrote:
A bit later than Palasm was AHDL from Altera, since bought by Intel. Kind of nice, as one could generate fairly complex designs quickly and without the overhead BS of VHDL. VHDL was designed by committee, and it shows.
Jim Ford
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 2/22/22 2:02 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
On 2/22/22 16:32, Jeff Anderson wrote:
> I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's. Great
> for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were
> power-hogs, if I recall correctly.
That didn't last long, fortunately.
> I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL.
> Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.
I use PALASM today, for when I need PALs/GALs. It's great...simple,
fast, no fluff, no BS, predictable.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: HP-8753E Options Activated
Hi Lothar:
That is one of the first things I checked. They match 100% to their respective serial numbers. I even modified the second CPU Boards S/N to match the "Host VNA", and still could not get it to except license keys. At the moment, I cannot find one fault as I go through more in depth BITE. More specifically, other functions which require SW8 to be placed into Alter seem to work.?
Rich??
On Tuesday, February 22, 2022, 10:06:16 PM EST, Lothar baier <lothar@...> wrote:
I was thinking of one more thing I came across but its pretty rare which is why it slipped my mind
?
When you power up the unit look at the screen , check the serial# displayed and make sure its not corrupted and matches the serial# on the back of the unit .
I had it happen one time that the serial# was corrupted in the EEPROM and since the option keyword is tied to the serial number it wont work if even one digit is off , it also sometimes happens that used equipment dealers swap CPU boards
if they make one good unit out of multiple bad ones and while some update the serial number sticker on the back others don’t so this can throw you off too especially if you use the serial# of the label to request the option keyword
?
Sent from for Windows
?
From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 8:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated
?
Hi Lothar:
My instrument came from HP with OPT6 so I have this hardware, but this is good information nonetheless. ?
FYI - I checked all the Vcc RAILS around the EEPROM they are not low, nor is their evidence of out of tolerance ripple on them.?
Rich
On Feb 22, 2022, at 9:21 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:
?one note on option 006 ,? altough you can turn 006 on in the EEPROM you will need to change the source and run the source and sampler related adjustment tests !
unlike the older 8753A/B/C the D and up units did not use a doubler but rather switched out the YIG oscillator signal for frequencies above 3GHz so there is second signal path in the die cast box on the source module that is not populated on the 3GHz source?
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Re: HP-8753E Options Activated
I was thinking of one more thing I came across but its pretty rare which is why it slipped my mind
?
When you power up the unit look at the screen , check the serial# displayed and make sure its not corrupted and matches the serial# on the back of the unit .
I had it happen one time that the serial# was corrupted in the EEPROM and since the option keyword is tied to the serial number it wont work if even one digit is off , it also sometimes happens that used equipment dealers swap CPU boards
if they make one good unit out of multiple bad ones and while some update the serial number sticker on the back others don’t so this can throw you off too especially if you use the serial# of the label to request the option keyword
?
Sent from for Windows
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 8:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated
?
Hi Lothar:
My instrument came from HP with OPT6 so I have this hardware, but this is good information nonetheless. ?
FYI - I checked all the Vcc RAILS around the EEPROM they are not low, nor is their evidence of out of tolerance ripple on them.?
Rich
On Feb 22, 2022, at 9:21 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:
?one note on option 006 ,? altough you can turn 006 on in the EEPROM you will need to change the source and run the source and sampler related adjustment tests !
unlike the older 8753A/B/C the D and up units did not use a doubler but rather switched out the YIG oscillator signal for frequencies above 3GHz so there is second signal path in the die cast box on the source module that is not populated on the 3GHz source?
|
Re: HP-8753E Options Activated
Hi Lothar: My instrument came from HP with OPT6 so I have this hardware, but this is good information nonetheless. ?
FYI - I checked all the Vcc RAILS around the EEPROM they are not low, nor is their evidence of out of tolerance ripple on them.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 22, 2022, at 9:21 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:
?one note on option 006 ,? altough you can turn 006 on in the EEPROM you will need to change the source and run the source and sampler related adjustment tests !
unlike the older 8753A/B/C the D and up units did not use a doubler but rather switched out the YIG oscillator signal for frequencies above 3GHz so there is second signal path in the die cast box on the source module that is not populated on the 3GHz source?
|
Re: HP-8753E Options Activated
one note on option 006 ,? altough you can turn 006 on in the EEPROM you will need to change the source and run the source and sampler related adjustment tests !
unlike the older 8753A/B/C the D and up units did not use a doubler but rather switched out the YIG oscillator signal for frequencies above 3GHz so there is second signal path in the die cast box on the source module that is not populated on the 3GHz source?
|
Alex_03
Jinxie
Dave McGuire
