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Re: Hercules, MVS speed.
Hello Carlos,
Am 29.11.2020 um 00:49 schrieb carlos feldman <carlfelster@...>: May be then I should use a Virtual Machine running windows with a slower clock and use h390 on itIn the early days of second generation IBM compatible PCs, there has been the concept of a ?turbo switch¡°. Curious as I am, I took some research and found . Unfortunately, this concept is highly flawed: It increases power dissipation from the grid and thus creates additional heat, slows down the whole machine instead if just one task. But maybe it could be worth a test? Conceptually, some kind of sandbox should run your Hercules instance, and wake it up for actual processing requests with a fixed delay of some milliseconds, or microseconds. I don¡¯t know if such a sandbox software exists. :wq! PoC |
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
Once again, you cannot sysgen on z/os, in fact I think since OS/390.? Joe On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 7:49 PM Greg Price <procegrog@...> wrote: On 2020-11-29 11:05 AM, Rahim Azizarab via wrote: |
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
On 2020-11-29 11:05 AM, Rahim Azizarab via groups.io wrote:
but when it came time to allocate my system datasets (SYS1) under my newly created master catalog Zos does not allow STEPCAT or JOBCAT to catalog my system files under my newly created catalogIt seems a problem has been needlessly invented, yes? STEPCAT/JOBCAT is not needed under Z.? The CATALOG operand of IDCAMS commands allows the target catalog to be specified.? Non-VSAM data sets can be allocated and loaded without being cataloged.? Data sets on the IPL volume should not be cataloged "by the system" (such as with a DISP of CATLG) but should be cataloged indirectly such as by DEF NVSAM (NAME(dsname) DEVT(3390) VOL(&SYSR1)) CAT(mynewcatalog/mynewpswd) or similar, to allow for swapping IPL volumes using the same catalog and paging configuration. It's not as if you can port a catalog between z/OS and MVS 3.8 in either direction... Cheers, Greg |
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
WTF? There is no such thing as ?a SYSGEN in z/OS... Dont know what you ?think youre?doing but it aint a SYSGEN. Joe On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 6:49 PM Rahim Azizarab via <rahimazizarab=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýStepcat and Jobcat were disabled in z/OS 1.7. SMS did not work with them in earlier versions.?I haven¡¯t done a sysgen since the mvs/XA days Laddie Hanus Sent from whatever device I am using. On Nov 28, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Rahim Azizarab via groups.io <rahimazizarab@...> wrote:
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Re: Hercules, MVS speed.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJust like VM/370¡¯s component Hercules simulates what is in the POP but without timing restrictions. Its very hard to simulate ¡°step ?accurate¡± or even ¡°similar performance¡± of an old machine. There are a number of reasons for this. ? I think a major issue is DASD performance. DASD latency seek times and through put are challenging to simulate. Then there are channels, Hercules does not attempt to simulate channel busy. Lastly an intel CPU is very different to an IBM CPU. Things like 360 floating point has to be simulated. ? I think as a first step, run it on a slow host, such as a slow Raspberry PI. Its not as slow as a 360¡ Second step look the SIMH 360 fork¡ ? ? I think that Richard Cornwell wanted these to be more realistic, but it does have fixed channels and io devices. ? I guess if you really want step accuracy then you could write your own emulator in VHDL and run it on an FPGA like Laurence Wilkinsons 360/30 project ? ? As this is gate level it should behave pretty much like a real model 30¡ ¡ but again it needs DASD adding ? Dave G4UGM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of tomarmstrong255@...
Sent: 28 November 2020 22:53 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-MVS] Hercules, MVS speed. ? Hi Carlos, The 360 Mod 40 was rated at about 125,000 instructions per second or 125KPS. I would expect your 64 bit 3G processor to deliver around 60,000,000 instructions per second or 60MIPS. That is about 480 times faster than a 360 Mod 40. Add in the Hercules I/O buffering and you can see why Hercules emulation on a modern PC processor provides such a huge performance boost over the original 360 hardware. Its not about memory allocation, its all about the 480 times (60,000,000/125,000) improvement in instructions per second. The software, both PL/I F and OS/360 Sort/Merge were designed and written with the memory and performance constraints imposed by the 360 hardware being a major consideration. Providing additional memory, above and beyond their stated memory specifications generally delivers little or no performance improvement as they are not designed to exploit the additional memory provided by MVS. As to your question of slowing down Hercules to deliver similar performance of a 360/40 then that issue would best be addressed by one of the Hercules developers. Regards Tom ? |
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýSince everyone seems to be waxing nostalgic about their programming experience these days, here's my contribution:I started learning Fortan in 1967, which ran on the campus's IBM 7040 mainframe.? Later, the university got an IBM 360 and I learned 360 assembler language.? Later, for a programming class, I did all the programming on a Data General Nova minicomputer and learned its assembler language, which we ran on a floppy-disk-based operating system called Zbec (or something like that).? Later, I went to work for IBM as a logic designer but ended up writing a lot of programs in 370 assembler, then PL/AS followed by PL/X.? Also wrote lots of stuff in REXX, TCL and CLIC.? CLIC (Compiled Language for Interactive Commands) is one I haven't heard anybody mention.? It was developed at IBM's San Jose facility and might have been an IBM internal-only language.? It was actually quite a powerful language but suffered somewhat from its clunky CLIST-like syntax.? CLIC programs were compiled to some kind of intermediate language, which was then executed by a CLIC executor.? There were versions of CLIC for both MVS and VM.? CLIC was pulled off the IBM mainframes around 1999 when it was discovered that it was not Y2K compliant and they had no motivation to fix it and the world was suffering from Y2K paranoia. My favorite language for many years was PL/X.? I wrote many ISPF dialogs in PL/X to interface with the many EDA tools we used.? I still have a version of PL/X for OS/2 on my vintage PC running OS/2 Warp. Of course, as a logic designer, I had to learn various EDA-oriented languages: BDL/S, BDL/C, EPL/S, TDL (Tucson Design Language) and finally VHDL and Verilog. Charles Bailey (now out of retirement, working for IBM again, and coding more VHDL, Verilog, TCL, and 2 weeks ago, a program in REXX to extract some data from a Verilog netlist.) On 2020-11-28 15:31, Ed Liss wrote:
I had many favorites over the years.? Fortran IV was the first.? That then shifted for SPS (IBM 1620 assembler) and then to BAL (S/360).? PL/I was lurking in the background before it finally emerged to become the "bill payer".? I never liked COBOL but it was a "bill payer".? Hate RPG.? Today my favorite is Visual Studio (Basic).? I am dabling with Netbeans (Java) but I don't think it is all that great. |
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
Mike; I think it will default to my old system catalog not to the one I created on the empty volume SY2KB. IEF376I? JOB/TWO$70? /STOP? 2020333.1151 CPU??? 0MIN 00.16SEC SRB??? 0MIN 00.02S IDCAMS? SYSTEM SERVICES?????????????????????????????????????????? TIME: 11:51:11?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008300 ? EXPORT SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG DISCONNECT??????????????????????????? 00008400 IDC3012I ENTRY SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG NOT FOUND????????????????????????????? ? IDC3009I ** VSAM CATALOG RETURN CODE IS 8 - REASON CODE IS IGG0CLEG-42???????? ? IDC3003I FUNCTION TERMINATED. CONDITION CODE IS 12???????????????????????????? ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008500 ? SET LASTCC = 0??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008600 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ? SET? MAXCC = 0??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008700 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008800 ? DEFINE USERCATALOG (???????????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00008900 ?????????????? NAME(SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG) -???????????????????????? 00009000 ?????????????? FILE(SYSUT1)??????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00009100 ?????????????? VOLUME(SY2PKB)????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00009200 ?????????????? CYLINDERS(30)?????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00009300 ?????????????? BUFFERSPACE(8192) )????????????????????????????????????? 00009400 IDC0510I CATALOG ALLOCATION STATUS FOR VOLUME SY2PKB IS 0????????????????????? ? IDC0512I NAME GENERATED-(I) SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG.CATINDEX????????????????? ? IDC0001I FUNCTION COMPLETED, HIGHEST CONDITION CODE WAS 0????????????????????? ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00009500 IDC0002I IDCAMS PROCESSING COMPLETE. MAXIMUM CONDITION CODE WAS 0?????????????? regards; Rahim ?? ??
On Saturday, November 28, 2020, 6:28:40 PM CST, Mike Schwab <mike.a.schwab@...> wrote:
Not needed.? If you didn't created a matching alias the default is the master catalog. On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 6:05 PM Rahim Azizarab via groups.io
<rahimazizarab=[email protected]> wrote: > > I ran the JCL to create an IPL volume and it went flawlessly.? Then I created my Master catalog which went fine too; but when it came time to allocate my system datasets (SYS1) under my newly created master catalog Zos does not allow STEPCAT or JOBCAT to catalog my system files under my newly created catalog.? This is when the old MVS38 comes handy because I can move my DASD to MVS38 and allocate my SYS1 datasets under my Master Catalog then I can bring it back to add contents to them. > >? ? ? ? ? //* >? ? ? ? 11 //RECATLG? EXEC PGM=IDCAMS,REGION=1024K,COND=(0,NE,DEFCAT) >? ? ? ? ? //* >? ? ? ? ? //* CATALOG SMP DATASETS >? ? ? ? ? //* >? ? ? ? 12 //STEPCAT? DD? DSN=SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG,DISP=SHR >? ? ? ? 13 //SYSPRINT DD? SYSOUT=* >? ? ? ? 14 //SYSIN? ? DD? * >? ? ? ? ? //*? ? ? ? END OF SUBMITTED SYSGEN00 (2 OF 2) >? ? ? ? 15 //SYSIN? ? DD *? ? ? ? ? ? ? GENERATED STATEMENT >? ? ? ? 16 //SYSUT2? DD? SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR) >? ? ? ? ? //*? ? ? ? END OF PRIMARY SYSGEN00 >? STMT NO. MESSAGE >? ? ? ? 7 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED >? ? ? ? 12 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED > > > > Rahim > > > > > > > > > -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? |
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
Not needed. If you didn't created a matching alias the default is the
master catalog. On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 6:05 PM Rahim Azizarab via groups.io <rahimazizarab@...> wrote:
-- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? |
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Re: Hercules, MVS speed.
Hi Carlos, The 360 Mod 40 was rated at about 125,000 instructions per second or 125KPS. I would expect your 64 bit 3G processor to deliver around 60,000,000 instructions per second or 60MIPS. That is about 480 times faster than a 360 Mod 40. Add in the Hercules I/O buffering and you can see why Hercules emulation on a modern PC processor provides such a huge performance boost over the original 360 hardware. Its not about memory allocation, its all about the 480 times (60,000,000/125,000) improvement in instructions per second. The software, both PL/I F and OS/360 Sort/Merge were designed and written with the memory and performance constraints imposed by the 360 hardware being a major consideration. Providing additional memory, above and beyond their stated memory specifications generally delivers little or no performance improvement as they are not designed to exploit the additional memory provided by MVS. As to your question of slowing down Hercules to deliver similar performance of a 360/40 then that issue would best be addressed by one of the Hercules developers. Regards Tom ? |
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revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
I ran the JCL to create an IPL volume and it went flawlessly.? Then I created my Master catalog which went fine too; but when it came time to allocate my system datasets (SYS1) under my newly created master catalog Zos does not allow STEPCAT or JOBCAT to catalog my system files under my newly created catalog.? This is when the old MVS38 comes handy because I can move my DASD to MVS38 and allocate my SYS1 datasets under my Master Catalog then I can bring it back to add contents to them. ????????? //*????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ?????? 11 //RECATLG? EXEC PGM=IDCAMS,REGION=1024K,COND=(0,NE,DEFCAT)?????????? ? ????????? //* ????????? //* CATALOG SMP DATASETS???????????????????????????????????????????? ? ????????? //* ?????? 12 //STEPCAT? DD? DSN=SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG,DISP=SHR???????????????? ? ?????? 13 //SYSPRINT DD? SYSOUT=*????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ?????? 14 //SYSIN??? DD? *???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ????????? //*??????? END OF SUBMITTED SYSGEN00 (2 OF 2)??????????????????????? ? ?????? 15 //SYSIN???? DD *?????????????? GENERATED STATEMENT?????????????????? ? ?????? 16 //SYSUT2?? DD? SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)???????????????????????????????????? ? ????????? //*??????? END OF PRIMARY SYSGEN00?????????????????????????????????? ? ?STMT NO. MESSAGE????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????? 7 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED???????????????????????????? ? ?????? 12 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED????????????????????????????? Rahim ?? |
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Re: Hercules, MVS speed.
Hello Carlos,
Am 28.11.2020 um 21:27 schrieb carlos feldman <carlfelster@...>: Is there any way to set Hercules emulator speed to be like one IBM 360/40?,As far as I know, Hercules speed entirely depends on the Hosts¡¯s CPU. I realy don't know if it a well programed piece of software, or the 64 bit 3 Gig processor I'm using.I guess, both. :-) :wq! PoC |
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Ed Liss
I had many favorites over the years.? Fortran IV was the first.? That then shifted for SPS (IBM 1620 assembler) and then to BAL (S/360).? PL/I was lurking in the background before it finally emerged to become the "bill payer".? I never liked COBOL but it was a "bill payer".? Hate RPG.? Today my favorite is Visual Studio (Basic).? I am dabling with Netbeans (Java) but I don't think it is all that great.
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Re: Hercules, MVS speed.
Reduce the memory to 16 in your config file it is the MAIN parameter. regards; Rahim ? ??
On Saturday, November 28, 2020, 2:27:08 PM CST, carlos feldman <carlfelster@...> wrote:
Hi everyone, I'm testing sort routines (IHESRTA), in PL/I. Even with modest 25 K and only one WORK disk, speed is blazing fast to sort 32K 190 byte registers, less than a second, compliation and linkedit insluded. Is there any way to set Hercules emulator speed to be like one IBM 360/40?, I realy don't know if it a well programed piece of software, or the 64 bit 3 Gig processor I'm using. ? Regards Carlos |
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Hercules, MVS speed.
Hi everyone, I'm testing sort routines (IHESRTA), in PL/I. Even with modest 25 K and only one WORK disk, speed is blazing fast to sort 32K 190 byte registers, less than a second, compliation and linkedit insluded. Is there any way to set Hercules emulator speed to be like one IBM 360/40?, I realy don't know if it a well programed piece of software, or the 64 bit 3 Gig processor I'm using. ? Regards Carlos |
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Apart from some playing at Kingston Polytechnic after school, I started with PL/1 and assembly under VM/SP,? then assembly, 3270 datastreams, PL/1, VSAM, IMS, and all the usual under MVS, and then MVS systems programming. Bizarrely, I did a lot of work programming ISPF from assembly (some of it authorised, for good measure). I still find myself thinking of the underlying assembly, even when I'm using a compiled language :-) Roops On Sat., Nov. 28, 2020, 16:45 Rob Prins via , <rob.prins=[email protected]> wrote: Started in 1971 with writing COBOL. |
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Started in 1971 with writing COBOL.
I was a few years an application programmer, but systems programming had my attention. So I became a systems programmer. My first job was replace OS/VS2 SVS by MVS. In my many years as a systems programmer I learn Assembler. I quit the systems programming department in 2002 with installing z/OS. In 2002 I started my career as a storage administrator in the Open systems world. I became familiar with Windows, AIX, Sun Solaris and Linux. Storage boxes like EMC, HDS, HP and NetApp are pretty familiar to me. So I write PHP, Cobol, HTML, CSS, Python, Shell scripts and still Assembler. After my retirement 2 years ago, I restarted the development of RPF. Assembler is like riding a bike. You new unlearn Assembler. Cheers, Rob |
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Being a microcontroller programmer, I'm very close to assembly, and it's bit byte and interrupts management, but I prefer using C, which in turn is very close to assembly, if you use properly. Of course you have to use it knowing what a cpu does. Unlike IBM, where compiled languages are a set of system routine calls, even for the simplest task, in microcontroller most of the instructions are translated into assembly, which makes very easy to debug, and with compact code. C++ is other breed of beast, and can be sometimes confusing in the generated code. Anyways since the very early days IBM had very good and easy to use input and output routines, that can be interfaced with very few assembly lines. Today's microcontrollers, also have easy to use hardware interfaces, you can write on a few bytes a serial port driver?
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Re: mounting a SCRTCH volume
There is a new version of SDL-Hyperion out.? The following is the Howto for it. ??????? sudo apt update ??????? sudo apt list --upgradable ???? ? ??????? sudo apt install --yes build-essential ??????? sudo apt install --yes cmake git autoconf flex gawk ???? ? ??????? which gcc ??????? gcc --version ??????? mkdir /home/<youruserid>/hercules ??????? cd /home/<youruserid>/hercules ??????? mkdir sdl42 ??????? mkdir herc42 ??????? mkdir extpkgs ???? ? ??????? cd extpkgs ??????? git clone https://github.com/SDL-Hercules-390/gists.git ???? ? ??????? cp gists/extpkgs.sh . ??????? cp gists/extpkgs.sh.ini . ???? ? ??????? ./extpkgs.sh CLONE c d s t ???? ? ??????? cd ../sdl42 ??????? git clone https://github.com/SDL-Hercules-390/hyperion.git ???? ? ??????? cd hyperion/ ???? ? ??????? util/bldlvlck ??????? ./autogen.sh ???? ? ??????? ./configure --prefix=/home/<youruserid>/hercules/herc42 --enable-extpkgs=/home/<youruserid>/hercules/extpkgs ??????? ./config.status --config ???? ? ??????? make -j regards; Rahim ??
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020, 4:45:35 PM CST, Kevin Monceaux <kevin@...> wrote:
Gregg, On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 05:31:55PM -0500, Gregg Levine wrote: > Wow! Do you plan on weaving using actual homespun? (Thread woven from raw > cotton or wool or linen stuff.) I have a Turkish spindle, but haven't tried spinning yet. > But in my defense mine is of computers in general. Both what we discuss > here, and the regular desktop and laptop style. I have a fondness for computers in general too.? I wish I had the funds and space for a larger collection.? I have a couple of VAXstations, an IBM 9406-270, 9406-520, and an RS/6000 whose model number I forget at the moment.? I think the version of AIX on it is from way back in the 3.x range. It used to run DT/6000 where I work before it was retired. -- Kevin Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. |
carlos feldman
Rob Prins
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