Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Since everyone seems to be waxing nostalgic about their programming
experience these days, here's my contribution:
I started learning Fortan in 1967, which ran on the campus's IBM
7040 mainframe.? Later, the university got an IBM 360 and I learned
360 assembler language.? Later, for a programming class, I did all
the programming on a Data General Nova minicomputer and learned its
assembler language, which we ran on a floppy-disk-based operating
system called Zbec (or something like that).?
Later, I went to work for IBM as a logic designer but ended up
writing a lot of programs in 370 assembler, then PL/AS followed by
PL/X.? Also wrote lots of stuff in REXX, TCL and CLIC.? CLIC
(Compiled Language for Interactive Commands) is one I haven't heard
anybody mention.? It was developed at IBM's San Jose facility and
might have been an IBM internal-only language.? It was actually
quite a powerful language but suffered somewhat from its clunky
CLIST-like syntax.? CLIC programs were compiled to some kind of
intermediate language, which was then executed by a CLIC executor.?
There were versions of CLIC for both MVS and VM.? CLIC was pulled
off the IBM mainframes around 1999 when it was discovered that it
was not Y2K compliant and they had no motivation to fix it and the
world was suffering from Y2K paranoia.
My favorite language for many years was PL/X.? I wrote many ISPF
dialogs in PL/X to interface with the many EDA tools we used.? I
still have a version of PL/X for OS/2 on my vintage PC running OS/2
Warp.
Of course, as a logic designer, I had to learn various EDA-oriented
languages: BDL/S, BDL/C, EPL/S, TDL (Tucson Design Language) and
finally VHDL and Verilog.
Charles Bailey
(now out of retirement, working for IBM again, and coding more VHDL,
Verilog, TCL, and 2 weeks ago, a program in REXX to extract some
data from a Verilog netlist.)
On 2020-11-28 15:31, Ed Liss wrote:
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I had many favorites over the years.? Fortran IV was
the first.? That then shifted for SPS (IBM 1620 assembler) and
then to BAL (S/360).? PL/I was lurking in the background before it
finally emerged to become the "bill payer".? I never liked COBOL
but it was a "bill payer".? Hate RPG.? Today my favorite is Visual
Studio (Basic).? I am dabling with Netbeans (Java) but I don't
think it is all that great.
_._,_._,_
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
Mike;
I think it will default to my old system catalog not to the one I created on the empty volume SY2KB.
IEF376I? JOB/TWO$70? /STOP? 2020333.1151 CPU??? 0MIN 00.16SEC SRB??? 0MIN 00.02S IDCAMS? SYSTEM SERVICES?????????????????????????????????????????? TIME: 11:51:11 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008300 ? EXPORT SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG DISCONNECT??????????????????????????? 00008400 IDC3012I ENTRY SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG NOT FOUND????????????????????????????? ? IDC3009I ** VSAM CATALOG RETURN CODE IS 8 - REASON CODE IS IGG0CLEG-42???????? ? IDC3003I FUNCTION TERMINATED. CONDITION CODE IS 12???????????????????????????? ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008500 ? SET LASTCC = 0??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008600 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ? SET? MAXCC = 0??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008700 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00008800 ? DEFINE USERCATALOG (???????????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00008900 ?????????????? NAME(SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG) -???????????????????????? 00009000 ?????????????? FILE(SYSUT1)??????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00009100 ?????????????? VOLUME(SY2PKB)????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00009200 ?????????????? CYLINDERS(30)?????????? -??????????????????????????????? 00009300 ?????????????? BUFFERSPACE(8192) )????????????????????????????????????? 00009400 IDC0510I CATALOG ALLOCATION STATUS FOR VOLUME SY2PKB IS 0????????????????????? ? IDC0512I NAME GENERATED-(I) SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG.CATINDEX????????????????? ? IDC0001I FUNCTION COMPLETED, HIGHEST CONDITION CODE WAS 0????????????????????? ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 00009500 IDC0002I IDCAMS PROCESSING COMPLETE. MAXIMUM CONDITION CODE WAS 0??????????????
On Saturday, November 28, 2020, 6:28:40 PM CST, Mike Schwab <mike.a.schwab@...> wrote:
Not needed.? If you didn't created a matching alias the default is the master catalog.
On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 6:05 PM Rahim Azizarab via groups.io <rahimazizarab= [email protected]> wrote: > > I ran the JCL to create an IPL volume and it went flawlessly.? Then I created my Master catalog which went fine too; but when it came time to allocate my system datasets (SYS1) under my newly created master catalog Zos does not allow STEPCAT or JOBCAT to catalog my system files under my newly created catalog.? This is when the old MVS38 comes handy because I can move my DASD to MVS38 and allocate my SYS1 datasets under my Master Catalog then I can bring it back to add contents to them. > >? ? ? ? ? //* >? ? ? ? 11 //RECATLG? EXEC PGM=IDCAMS,REGION=1024K,COND=(0,NE,DEFCAT) >? ? ? ? ? //* >? ? ? ? ? //* CATALOG SMP DATASETS >? ? ? ? ? //* >? ? ? ? 12 //STEPCAT? DD? DSN=SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG,DISP=SHR >? ? ? ? 13 //SYSPRINT DD? SYSOUT=* >? ? ? ? 14 //SYSIN? ? DD? * >? ? ? ? ? //*? ? ? ? END OF SUBMITTED SYSGEN00 (2 OF 2) >? ? ? ? 15 //SYSIN? ? DD *? ? ? ? ? ? ? GENERATED STATEMENT >? ? ? ? 16 //SYSUT2? DD? SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR) >? ? ? ? ? //*? ? ? ? END OF PRIMARY SYSGEN00 >? STMT NO. MESSAGE >? ? ? ? 7 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED >? ? ? ? 12 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED > > > > Rahim > > > > > > > > > -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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Re: revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
Not needed. If you didn't created a matching alias the default is the master catalog. On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 6:05 PM Rahim Azizarab via groups.io <rahimazizarab@...> wrote:
I ran the JCL to create an IPL volume and it went flawlessly. Then I created my Master catalog which went fine too; but when it came time to allocate my system datasets (SYS1) under my newly created master catalog Zos does not allow STEPCAT or JOBCAT to catalog my system files under my newly created catalog. This is when the old MVS38 comes handy because I can move my DASD to MVS38 and allocate my SYS1 datasets under my Master Catalog then I can bring it back to add contents to them.
//*
11 //RECATLG EXEC PGM=IDCAMS,REGION=1024K,COND=(0,NE,DEFCAT)
//*
//* CATALOG SMP DATASETS
//*
12 //STEPCAT DD DSN=SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG,DISP=SHR
13 //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
14 //SYSIN DD *
//* END OF SUBMITTED SYSGEN00 (2 OF 2)
15 //SYSIN DD * GENERATED STATEMENT
16 //SYSUT2 DD SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)
//* END OF PRIMARY SYSGEN00
STMT NO. MESSAGE
7 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED
12 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED
Rahim
-- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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Hi Carlos,
The 360 Mod 40 was rated at about 125,000 instructions per second or 125KPS. I would expect your 64 bit 3G processor to deliver around 60,000,000 instructions per second or 60MIPS. That is about 480 times faster than a 360 Mod 40. Add in the Hercules I/O buffering and you can see why Hercules emulation on a modern PC processor provides such a huge performance boost over the original 360 hardware. Its not about memory allocation, its all about the 480 times (60,000,000/125,000) improvement in instructions per second.
The software, both PL/I F and OS/360 Sort/Merge were designed and written with the memory and performance constraints imposed by the 360 hardware being a major consideration. Providing additional memory, above and beyond their stated memory specifications generally delivers little or no performance improvement as they are not designed to exploit the additional memory provided by MVS.
As to your question of slowing down Hercules to deliver similar performance of a 360/40 then that issue would best be addressed by one of the Hercules developers.
Regards
Tom
?
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revisiting SYSGEN in Z world
I ran the JCL to create an IPL volume and it went flawlessly.? Then I created my Master catalog which went fine too; but when it came time to allocate my system datasets (SYS1) under my newly created master catalog Zos does not allow STEPCAT or JOBCAT to catalog my system files under my newly created catalog.? This is when the old MVS38 comes handy because I can move my DASD to MVS38 and allocate my SYS1 datasets under my Master Catalog then I can bring it back to add contents to them.
????????? //*????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?????? 11 //RECATLG? EXEC PGM=IDCAMS,REGION=1024K,COND=(0,NE,DEFCAT)?????????? ?
????????? //*
????????? //* CATALOG SMP DATASETS???????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????? //*
?????? 12 //STEPCAT? DD? DSN=SYS1.VSAM.MASTER.CATALOG,DISP=SHR???????????????? ?
?????? 13 //SYSPRINT DD? SYSOUT=*????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?????? 14 //SYSIN??? DD? *???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????? //*??????? END OF SUBMITTED SYSGEN00 (2 OF 2)??????????????????????? ?
?????? 15 //SYSIN???? DD *?????????????? GENERATED STATEMENT?????????????????? ?
?????? 16 //SYSUT2?? DD? SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)???????????????????????????????????? ?
????????? //*??????? END OF PRIMARY SYSGEN00?????????????????????????????????? ?
?STMT NO. MESSAGE????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????? 7 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED???????????????????????????? ?
?????? 12 IEFC034I JOBCAT OR STEPCAT NOT PERMITTED?????????????????????????????
Rahim
?
??
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May be then I should use a Virtual Machine running windows with a slower clock and use h390 on it?
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Hello Carlos, Am 28.11.2020 um 21:27 schrieb carlos feldman <carlfelster@...>: Is there any way to set Hercules emulator speed to be like one IBM 360/40?, As far as I know, Hercules speed entirely depends on the Hosts’s CPU. I realy don't know if it a well programed piece of software, or the 64 bit 3 Gig processor I'm using. I guess, both. :-) :wq! PoC
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
I had many favorites over the years.? Fortran IV was the first.? That then shifted for SPS (IBM 1620 assembler) and then to BAL (S/360).? PL/I was lurking in the background before it finally emerged to become the "bill payer".? I never liked COBOL but it was a "bill payer".? Hate RPG.? Today my favorite is Visual Studio (Basic).? I am dabling with Netbeans (Java) but I don't think it is all that great.
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Reduce the memory to 16 in your config file it is the MAIN parameter.
On Saturday, November 28, 2020, 2:27:08 PM CST, carlos feldman <carlfelster@...> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'm testing sort routines (IHESRTA), in PL/I. Even with modest 25 K and only one WORK disk, speed is blazing fast to sort 32K 190 byte registers, less than a second, compliation and linkedit insluded.
Is there any way to set Hercules emulator speed to be like one IBM 360/40?,
I realy don't know if it a well programed piece of software, or the 64 bit 3 Gig processor I'm using.
?
Regards
Carlos
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Hi everyone,
I'm testing sort routines (IHESRTA), in PL/I. Even with modest 25 K and only one WORK disk, speed is blazing fast to sort 32K 190 byte registers, less than a second, compliation and linkedit insluded.
Is there any way to set Hercules emulator speed to be like one IBM 360/40?,
I realy don't know if it a well programed piece of software, or the 64 bit 3 Gig processor I'm using.
?
Regards
Carlos
|
Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Apart from some playing at Kingston Polytechnic after school, I started with PL/1 and assembly under VM/SP,? then assembly, 3270 datastreams, PL/1, VSAM, IMS, and all the usual under MVS, and then MVS systems programming.
Bizarrely, I did a lot of work programming ISPF from assembly (some of it authorised, for good measure).
I still find myself thinking of the underlying assembly, even when I'm using a compiled language :-)
Roops
Started in 1971 with writing COBOL.
I was a few years an application programmer, but systems programming had my attention.
So I became a systems programmer. My first job was replace OS/VS2 SVS by MVS.
In my many years as a systems programmer I learn Assembler. I quit the systems programming
department in 2002 with installing z/OS.
In 2002 I started my career as a storage administrator in the Open systems world.
I became familiar with Windows, AIX, Sun Solaris and Linux.
Storage boxes like EMC, HDS, HP and NetApp are pretty familiar to me.
So I write PHP, Cobol, HTML, CSS, Python, Shell scripts and still Assembler.
After my retirement 2 years ago, I restarted the development of RPF.
Assembler is like riding a bike. You new unlearn Assembler.
Cheers,
Rob
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Started in 1971 with writing COBOL.
I was a few years an application programmer, but systems programming had my attention.
So I became a systems programmer. My first job was replace OS/VS2 SVS by MVS.
In my many years as a systems programmer I learn Assembler. I quit the systems programming
department in 2002 with installing z/OS.
In 2002 I started my career as a storage administrator in the Open systems world.
I became familiar with Windows, AIX, Sun Solaris and Linux.
Storage boxes like EMC, HDS, HP and NetApp are pretty familiar to me.
So I write PHP, Cobol, HTML, CSS, Python, Shell scripts and still Assembler.
After my retirement 2 years ago, I restarted the development of RPF.
Assembler is like riding a bike. You new unlearn Assembler.
Cheers,
Rob
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Being a microcontroller programmer, I'm very close to assembly, and it's bit byte and interrupts management, but I prefer using C, which in turn is very close to assembly, if you use properly. Of course you have to use it knowing what a cpu does. Unlike IBM, where compiled languages are a set of system routine calls, even for the simplest task, in microcontroller most of the instructions are translated into assembly, which makes very easy to debug, and with compact code. C++ is other breed of beast, and can be sometimes confusing in the generated code. Anyways since the very early days IBM had very good and easy to use input and output routines, that can be interfaced with very few assembly lines. Today's microcontrollers, also have easy to use hardware interfaces, you can write on a few bytes a serial port driver?
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Re: mounting a SCRTCH volume
There is a new version of SDL-Hyperion out.?
The following is the Howto for it.
??????? sudo apt update
??????? sudo apt list --upgradable
???? ?
??????? sudo apt install --yes build-essential
??????? sudo apt install --yes cmake git autoconf flex gawk
???? ?
??????? which gcc
??????? gcc --version
??????? mkdir /home/<youruserid>/hercules
??????? cd /home/<youruserid>/hercules
??????? mkdir sdl42
??????? mkdir herc42
??????? mkdir extpkgs
???? ?
??????? cd extpkgs
??????? git clone https://github.com/SDL-Hercules-390/gists.git
???? ?
??????? cp gists/extpkgs.sh .
??????? cp gists/extpkgs.sh.ini .
???? ?
??????? ./extpkgs.sh CLONE c d s t
???? ?
??????? cd ../sdl42
??????? git clone https://github.com/SDL-Hercules-390/hyperion.git
???? ?
??????? cd hyperion/
???? ?
??????? util/bldlvlck
??????? ./autogen.sh
???? ?
??????? ./configure --prefix=/home/<youruserid>/hercules/herc42 --enable-extpkgs=/home/<youruserid>/hercules/extpkgs
??????? ./config.status --config
???? ?
??????? make -j
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020, 4:45:35 PM CST, Kevin Monceaux <kevin@...> wrote:
Gregg,
On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 05:31:55PM -0500, Gregg Levine wrote:
> Wow! Do you plan on weaving using actual homespun? (Thread woven from raw
> cotton or wool or linen stuff.)
I have a Turkish spindle, but haven't tried spinning yet.
> But in my defense mine is of computers in general. Both what we discuss
> here, and the regular desktop and laptop style.
I have a fondness for computers in general too.? I wish I had the funds and
space for a larger collection.? I have a couple of VAXstations, an IBM
9406-270, 9406-520, and an RS/6000 whose model number I forget at the
moment.? I think the version of AIX on it is from way back in the 3.x range.
It used to run DT/6000 where I work before it was retired.
--
Kevin
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Similar to Wally’s story, for me it is all about Assembler, all of the time.? I’ve been writing IBM Assembler code since 1978.? It comes so naturally to me that code flies out of the keyboard like it was my native speaking language.? When I want to work on something, using a different language is never considered.
This comes at a price of course; I’ve sometimes had to engage with most of the other common languages from time to time and I am not strong in any of them.
A recent post said Assembler was like a Formula-1 race car and expensive to maintain.? It certainly is a race car but it doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive to maintain.? I think it depends more on what you put into it, as far as clean clear code, lots of relevant comments, and some white space to make it less dense; these things all make it much easier to maintain.? It took me about the first 10 years of my career to learn this though.? It wasn’t until I changed jobs and had to start maintaining Assembler code written by others that I saw how difficult it could be to work your way through it.? But it taught important lessons for me in how to write clearer and more maintainable code.
Things like “structured assembler” (a set of macros to attempt to give Assembler code a hint of the structured code of some other languages), as well as use of oddities like equated register names (e.g., LINKREG, BALREG, WORKREG instead the plain and clear R15, R14, R5, etc.), are abominations to me.? These things can slow down understanding and maintenance to a crawl, at least for me.? The main problem with these things is that they partly hide what’s under the covers. In Assembler, you need to see what is under the covers to really understand what the code is doing.
All of the stuff I’ve released here over the years, like NJE38 (NJE for MVS 3.8) and over on the VM/370 side, the DIAGNOSE 58 Full Screen Support and the DIAGNOSE 7C Logical Device Facility, and more, were all written in 100% Assembler.
Regards,
Bob
?
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
On 2020-11-27 14:21, carlos feldman wrote: BUT..................
As an engineer and also a programmer, I love Fortran, PL/I, C, and even Quick Basic.
But I despise Java, Prolog, Lisp
What are your programming likes and dislikes ? Started, in 1985, with Algol 60 and the keystroke code to program the Texas Instruments TI-59 at university, dabbled a tiny bit with with Basic, and followed that with Turbo Pascal (2.00, 3.01a, 6.00 & 7.01) at home, and started with PL/I in 1985, and still use it 35 years later. Added REXX on the big iron in the early 1990'ies. In the 19I90'ies I did a little work for Texas Instruments, being about the only person outside TI that could program their TI-95 programmable calculator in TMS 7000 assembler, after having found out how to get into the (weakly) protected system ROMs, and having disassembled the entire "OS". Returned to (Virtual) Pascal in about 2008, but nowadays only use it to hack the resulting assembler output to pieces, even going as far as adding the x86 instructions that it doesn't support as long "db" sequences, kind of like the old TP 2/3 "inline" statement. ;) (It's been abandonware since 2004 and the builtin assembler only supports CPUs up to Pentium) And I've also started using (Regina) REXX on the PC, it's lack of EXECIO was always a big drawback, but the ANSI "with output stem whatever." seems to cater for most of my (mundane) needs. And I "wrote" about half-a-dozen of E15 exits in assembler for Y2K, to handle some of the more exotic/signalling six-character dates. Absolutely hate the bloatware that produced nowadays, RECV390 by Edgar Hofmann extracts files from XMIT'ed PDS'es in 39K, a version in Java by one "dewittlknapp" comes comes in a 52.3 Mb download, and another one in Java ("only" 210kb) needs an additional 200Mb of OpenJDK stuff. Pass me a bucket... Robert -- Robert AH Prins robert.ah.prins(a)gmail.com The hitchhiking grandfather @ Some useful(?) REXX @
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Hi
'(peace)
--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the rainbow
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
In all these missives regarding programming languages used et al, no one has mentioned
1. RPG, RPG II (and later)? from IBM 1401 and newer systems.
2. Macro assembler??????? from IBM 1401, 7094, ICL 1501 and 1900's
Now back in the day at one of my first jobs in London as a programmer around 1963 (1401) I had to use machine code (if nothing else then keying in the bootstrap code to start the machine) then after a few months using Assembler then Macro Assembler and then followed by Cobol.?? Note I did do operating on a 1401 in 61 at weekends to earn pin money etc - save having to do a paper round.
Next site / job was ICL 1900's which also had Burroughs and Honeywell along with a lot of UR's (Unit Record systems) and yes serious programming here using short lengths of single wire cable with a baby plug at each end connected to a wide plug board that was the programming method. If you exceeded 10 layers of wire you knew the program was too complex and had to break it down some more.
This cabling was used in 1401 and 360 back boards (instead of modern circuit boards).
Now to help move away from UR systems we used RPG and initially used a UR that had a card reader and punch connected to one of the mainframes acting as input.
Now using RPG the processing could get more complex i.e., beyond read card, basic process, punch output card and create a report.
The Macro assembler was used for the stuff that RPG (and Cobol) could not yet handle and once practised could churn out code very quickly.
Or was it, when I was young :)
Vincent
still only 73 and started young..
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On 27/11/2020 18:40, pjfarley3 wrote:
+1, that is a true statement.? Cussing the machine is the one thing we programmers all have in common.
But in response to the original question, I think there is no need for a “favorite” language.? In my experience I have written in Fortran (II and IV), COBOL, 360/370/390/z Assembler, PL/1, Rexx, Pascal, SQL, (g)awk, miller (a scripting language), Snobol, Icon (a procedural successor to Snobol), *ix shell scripting, C, Metal C, python, HTML, and even a smidgeon of perl, and that’s not counting the large variety of utility “languages” you need to get the rest of the job done (JCL, IDCAMS, IEBDG, Comparex, Insync Compare, CA FileMaster, CMD.EXE scripting, Powershell, etc.).
I think the only major language I never had the opportunity or need to learn was Basic in any of its incarnations.
My “favorite” language tends to be the one that gets the task done today, and there is frequently a different language suited to each specific task in each different time period.? Use whatever language is available that works for you, and never stop learning new things.
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
Those are great one’s.
I enjoyed; ?REXX, Blankenship Basic, ADA, an old Army Program Sircus and COBOL.
George
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On Nov 27, 2020, at 08:21, carlos feldman <carlfelster@...> wrote:
? BUT..................
As an engineer and also a programmer, I love Fortran, PL/I, C, and even Quick Basic.
But I despise Java, Prolog, Lisp
?
What are your programming likes and dislikes ?
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Re: Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR
+1, that is a true statement.? Cussing the machine is the one thing we programmers all have in common. ? But in response to the original question, I think there is no need for a “favorite” language.? In my experience I have written in Fortran (II and IV), COBOL, 360/370/390/z Assembler, PL/1, Rexx, Pascal, SQL, (g)awk, miller (a scripting language), Snobol, Icon (a procedural successor to Snobol), *ix shell scripting, C, Metal C, python, HTML, and even a smidgeon of perl, and that’s not counting the large variety of utility “languages” you need to get the rest of the job done (JCL, IDCAMS, IEBDG, Comparex, Insync Compare, CA FileMaster, CMD.EXE scripting, Powershell, etc.). ? I think the only major language I never had the opportunity or need to learn was Basic in any of its incarnations. ? My “favorite” language tends to be the one that gets the task done today, and there is frequently a different language suited to each specific task in each different time period.? Use whatever language is available that works for you, and never stop learning new things. ? Peter ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Theodore M Rolle Jr Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 12:36 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [H390-MVS] Real programmers don't write in FORTRAN. FORTRAN is for pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies. SAYS MY Tk4- COOKIE JAR ? The only language common to all programmers is profanity. ? Unfortunately, I have to ?disagree with this statement. During my application programming days, i was tasked with writing an application to read an IMS database and plot the facilities on the CALCOMP plotter attached to the mainframe. The CALCOMP libraries were only available in FORTRAN. So, the main program was written in FORTRAN. I wrote a COBOL subroutine to read the IMS database for the facilities (poles, transformers, capacitors, and circuit numbers).? The inputs to the program were the corner square coordinates of the grid corner, and the scale. Greater scale = more facilities. The app was a smash hit for the ?engineering folks.? ? BUT.................. As an engineer and also a programmer, I love Fortran, PL/I, C, and even Quick Basic. But I despise Java, Prolog, Lisp ? What are your programming likes and dislikes ?
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