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On 04/15/2018 07:25 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

CHANGE: Instead of changing the Message-ID for all recipients, we now
?? only change the Message-ID for the original sender.

I'm not able to put my finger on why, but this one has my spidey-sense
tingling. It just seems wrong to distribute the "same" message with
different Messsage-ID content.

Looking at it from a citation/legal POV, is the original Message-ID
placed in a field "X-Message-ID"? If so, then it is quasi-acceptable.
However, if the original Message-ID is no longer in the message, then
you just destroyed the ability to differentiate between messages. I am
aware that Message-IDs are, in theory, non-unique.

jonathon

jonathon,

Looking at it from a citation/legal POV, is the original Message-ID
placed in a field "X-Message-ID"?

It is placed in a field named "X-Orig-Message-Id".

I am aware that Message-IDs are, in theory, non-unique.

Actually email senders are admonished to ensure that they are unique across all of space and time. Ok, that's a bit overstated, but it is the idea.

Shal


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On 04/17/2018 01:50 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

I am aware that Message-IDs are, in theory, non-unique.

Actually email senders are admonished to ensure that they are unique
across all of space and time. Ok, that's a bit overstated, but it is the idea.

I meant to write: "I am aware that Message-Ids are, in theory, unique,
but in practice, non-unique."

jonathon

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Having the same message content arriving with two Message-IDs is a bit worse than just the user seeing both copies. It causes email in-reply-to chains to be broken if the user happens to reply to the wrong one. They'll end up replying with a message-id that nobody else has seen. Many email clients will consider this a new conversation thread, and separate the messages from the rest. If this happens enough, it can really fragment a conversation.

David

To re-iterate what I've said in the past: I have pretty strong opinions on this. I don't believe list management software should *ever* be changing the message IDs.

As I understand, this was originally done so that gmail users would see their own messages. Perhaps the response here is to instruct people on how to configure gmail for this behavior (since it affects much more than just a particular mailing list). (The easiest way is to write a catch-all filter rule that then does nothing. For some reason this causes the sent message to remain in the inbox instead of being moved to Sent).

With this change, however, something changed about the defaults. I have users now complaining that they are seeing their messages twice, and we had previously configured things to never send messages with changed message IDs. Did something change about the default or configurable behavior in this regard?

Thanks,
David

David,

I changed this thread's title to match its content (should have done that before). The original post is still the changelog entry though.
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/7316

Having the same message content arriving with two Message-IDs is a bit
worse than just the user seeing both copies.

Mind you, a given recipient only gets one version, and the Gmail user like me with this feature turned on only gets the Groups.io ID on my own messages.

So it only matters if I reply to my own message. Everyone else's replies would have the original Gmail message-ID. Though this might explain the occasional "mystery" split I've seen on site. If I don't reply (by email) to my own message then the Groups.io ID goes nowhere but into my email folders.

As I understand, this was originally done so that gmail users would
see their own messages.

Correct.

Perhaps the response here is to instruct people on how to configure
gmail for this behavior ...

I've never seen such an instruction that actually worked. Except for tricks that boil down to "post from a different email address".

(The easiest way is to write a catch-all filter rule that then does
nothing. For some reason this causes the sent message to remain in the
inbox instead of being moved to Sent).

I don't want to see the message as sent. I want to see the message as returned, complete with Groups.io's header and footer fields, and possible edits by a moderator while pending.

With this change, however, something changed about the defaults. I
have users now complaining that they are seeing their messages twice,
and we had previously configured things to never send messages with
changed message IDs. Did something change about the default or
configurable behavior in this regard?

I've not noticed any changes.

But then I have the "I always want copies of my own messages" box checked, and always have. So this change should only affect the Message-ID in messages I send as received by others. Now they should be seeing the original Gmail ID; whereas before they (like I) would see the Groups.io ID.

Shal


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