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Although receiving an invitation and simply replying to the invite is embarrassingly easy to do, I have some wanna be subscribers who just cannot seem to master it.? Is there a way to direct subscribe new members?
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Yes, ?but only for premium lists. And the new user must still confirm by replying.?
Although receiving an invitation and simply replying to the invite is embarrassingly easy to do, I have some wanna be subscribers who just cannot seem to master it.? Is there a way to direct subscribe new members?
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The first question that needs answered is: Are you a Premium or Legacy Group? Excerpted:
Note:?The
Direct Add feature?is available only in paid Premium and Enterprise groups. It is not available in free Premium 30-day trial groups or in Free groups. For further on this:
/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-member-notices/direct-add-notice
?
If you meet the requirements to use the
Direct Add feature then follow this link to the details of how it works.
?
The Users and Owners Manuals have lots of these answers.
?
--
Dan Tucker, Groups.io ?AFDRetiree’s Group
and AFSMA Group Founder/Owner/Moderator
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Although receiving an invitation and simply replying to the invite is embarrassingly easy to do, I have some wanna be subscribers who just cannot seem to master it.? Is there a way to direct subscribe new members?
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On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:51 PM, Larry Finch wrote:
And the new user must still confirm by replying.?
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Larry -- I'm pretty sure that subscribers who are Direct Added are preconfirmed and bypass NC status. I actually do not like this feature and wish it wasn't so.
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Regards,
Bruce
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On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 09:38 PM, Frank wrote:
Is there a way to direct subscribe new members?
Frank -- Only paid groups have the Direct Add feature. Legacy Basic and groups on the Premium 90-day trial do not.
?
Regards,
Bruce
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On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 07:32 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Larry -- I'm pretty sure that subscribers who are Direct Added are preconfirmed and bypass NC status.
That is correct and it's how I add members to my group (once they have paid their club membership fees and the Membership Secretary has added them to the membership database).
I actually do not like this feature and wish it wasn't so.
Being able to Direct Add new members saves me from the world of pain that is sending invites and then chasing up those who don't respond.? I think it's one of best features on Groups.io. ?
Regards
Andy
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I believe that for the anti-spam legislation in many countries, the user must confirm that they want the emails. That’s why the user has to acknowledge being added to the list or even acknowledge that they asked to join the list. ? -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
? ?
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On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:40 AM, Ken Cameron wrote:
I believe that for the anti-spam legislation in many countries, the user must confirm that they want the emails.
For marketing emails, the general rule is that you need to opt-in instead of having to opt-out.
That’s why the user has to acknowledge being added to the list or even acknowledge that they asked to join the list.
Mailing lists and marketing emails should provide an easy way to unsubscribe, and Groups.io does that with the footer in each group message. ?
Regards
Andy
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On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 05:05 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Being able to Direct Add new members saves me from the world of pain that is sending invites and then chasing up those who don't respond.?
It's speculated that Direct Add is a leading source of spam trap addresses finding their way into groups.io accounts. Most problems stem from typos that will land in Bounced status eventually. But some of them do not, and that's why we had to do reverification.?
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In that context, I once suggested that Direct Added people [who don't already have a groups.io account] like everyone else. Forget reverification, how about doing initial verification? What a concept...
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I knew the notion wouldn't be popular, and it wasn't.?
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I don't believe responding to a confirmation email is all that onerous. But if so many folks are unable to do it with an invitation (the OP's point), perhaps I am mistaken. We'll probably have to land in the Spamhaus doghouse a few more times before the tide turns. This is one situation where I hope I'm not vindicated.
?
Regards,
Bruce
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Thanks to all of you for your responses.? I'm a new (free version) user.? Frank Abrams P?Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:06?AM Bruce Bowman via <bowman46118= [email protected]> wrote: On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 05:05 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Being able to Direct Add new members saves me from the world of pain that is sending invites and then chasing up those who don't respond.?
It's speculated that Direct Add is a leading source of spam trap addresses finding their way into accounts. Most problems stem from typos that will land in Bounced status eventually. But some of them do not, and that's why we had to do reverification.?
?
In that context, I once suggested that Direct Added people [who don't already have a account] like everyone else. Forget reverification, how about doing initial verification? What a concept...
?
I knew the notion wouldn't be popular, and it wasn't.?
?
I don't believe responding to a confirmation email is all that onerous. But if so many folks are unable to do it with an invitation (the OP's point), perhaps I am mistaken. We'll probably have to land in the Spamhaus doghouse a few more times before the tide turns. This is one situation where I hope I'm not vindicated.
?
Regards,
Bruce
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Frank,
There's an option to upgrade to only one month of Premium for $20, and then it automatically reverts back to a free group after a month's time.? This is handy for doing a bunch of Direct Adds within a few weeks.? I do this at specific times when we have a bunch of new members.? (And in the months in between, I just do invites, because it's not that much work to chase down the occasional person or send them very specific instructions about what to look for and reply to.)
I find bulk inviting to be far less than satisfying than bulk direct adding.? (And for me, "bulk" means 10 to 20 people.)? As Andy mentioned, it requires chasing down members.? I find that many people don't recognize the system-generated email sent from <groupname>@groups.io .
In more than 20 years of running groups (going all the way back to Mark's original eGroups), I have never had Direct Adds result in more spam.? I never type in email addresses; I always copy and paste the addresses from prior emails from the persons I am adding.
(Note that I don't generally have open groups, so I know who nearly all the people I'm adding are.? In the one or two situations when I ran an open group, I always add to approve any members, which occasionally meant having an email exchange with them to figure out whether they were legitimate.)
Yahoo Groups nearly ended things for me and my dozens of groups, when it eliminated Direct Add altogether.? I was thankful when I saw that Mark provides that ability in Groups.io .
Hope this helps.
From: "Frank via groups.io" <cfabrams@...>
To: "GroupManagersForum" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 10:22:18 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Direct add members
Thanks to all of you for your responses.? I'm a new (free version) user.? Frank Abrams P?Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:06?AM Bruce Bowman via <bowman46118= [email protected]> wrote: On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 05:05 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Being able to Direct Add new members saves me from the world of pain that is sending invites and then chasing up those who don't respond.?
It's speculated that Direct Add is a leading source of spam trap addresses finding their way into accounts. Most problems stem from typos that will land in Bounced status eventually. But some of them do not, and that's why we had to do reverification.?
?
In that context, I once suggested that Direct Added people [who don't already have a account] like everyone else. Forget reverification, how about doing initial verification? What a concept...
?
I knew the notion wouldn't be popular, and it wasn't.?
?
I don't believe responding to a confirmation email is all that onerous. But if so many folks are unable to do it with an invitation (the OP's point), perhaps I am mistaken. We'll probably have to land in the Spamhaus doghouse a few more times before the tide turns. This is one situation where I hope I'm not vindicated.
?
Regards,
Bruce
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An Opt-Out option does not excuse involuntary subscription.
Direct Add does risk involuntary subscriptions.
The risk may be low because only paid Groups can do that, and presumably their Owner(s)/ Moderators may be more responsible (than in unpaid Groups). It also relies on their Owner(s)/ Moderators having correct email addresses to subscribe, perhaps surprisingly I find that about 1 in 5 people do not communicate their email addresses correctly when saying it or writing it down (sloppy handwriting can be a factor).
Opt-In is the only near certain way to not SPAM unwilling recipients.
Michael
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 12, 2024, at 8:01?AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:40 AM, Ken Cameron wrote:
I believe that for the anti-spam legislation in many countries, the user must confirm that they want the emails. For marketing emails, the general rule is that you need to opt-in instead of having to opt-out.
That’s why the user has to acknowledge being added to the list or even acknowledge that they asked to join the list. Mailing lists and marketing emails should provide an easy way to unsubscribe, and Groups.io does that with the footer in each group message.
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On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:33 AM, Cal wrote:
There's an option to upgrade to only one month of Premium for $20, and then it automatically reverts back to a free group after a month's time.? This is handy for doing a bunch of Direct Adds within a few weeks.? I do this at specific times when we have a bunch of new members.? (And in the months in between, I just do invites, because it's not that much work to chase down the occasional person or send them very specific instructions about what to look for and reply to.)
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Bruce said: ?Frank -- Only paid groups have the Direct Add feature. Legacy Basic and groups on the Premium 90-day trial do not.
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The Owners' Help (in the section on Member Notices) says:
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Direct Add notice
Note: The Direct Add feature is available only in paid Premium and Enterprise groups. It is not available in free Premium 30-day trial groups or in Free groups.
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Frances
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Perhaps “some” of the problem with inviting is the IMO very poor email/invitation.?
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I have #suggested in Beta that this be cleaned up, reworded, and better language be used than “<group>@groups.io”, which looks like an email address/SPAM. ?IMO it's ridiculous that mods need to append a custom message in the invitation to “explain” the invitation. ??
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I even supplied a couple of acceptable versions of a re-write. ?Crickets.?
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If you want a better invitation experience, please give it some bumps on Beta.?
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The invitation isn't too bad now. Here's mine with three bullets and a red sentence. It invited one of my email addresses to join to show you what it looks like.
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Hello,
You have been invited by Frances to join the group .
The following message was included by Frances:
?
Please accept this invitation to join the test group. ?
- It is easy to use.
- Free
- Useful
Don't forget to simply reply to this email!
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If you have questions about this invitation, send them to [email protected].
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may on the website. This link will expire in 14 days, on 12/26/2024 at 9:55am PST.
If you are not interested, or if xxxxxx@... is not your email address, please ignore this email.
?
Cheers,The Team
--
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I'm a bit puzzled about this thread.? How is a direct add,
with participant confirmation, different than a direct invite,
with participant acceptance?? Different wording, yes, but it's still
a two step process, one at each side, initiated from the Group.
We have a free tier group where new members are sent a Groups.io
invite from the membership team, as a slightly better alternative
(higher completion rate) to just pointing new members at the home
page Subscribe link.? It's a pretty low bar, but they seem to need
that initial push.
Greg
Frances via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The invitation isn't too bad now. Here's mine with three
bullets and a red sentence. It invited one of my email addresses
to join to show you what it looks like.
?
Hello,
You have been invited by Frances to join the group .
The following message was included by Frances:
?
Please accept this invitation to join the test group.
?
- It is easy to use.
- Free
- Useful
Don't forget to simply reply to this email!
?
If you have questions about this invitation, send
them to [email protected].
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email,
or you may on the
website. This link will expire in 14 days, on 12/26/2024 at
9:55am PST.
If you are not interested, or if xxxxxx@... is
not your email address, please ignore this email.
?
Cheers,
The Team
--
?
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This is all great discussion. I am a brand new "owner" of a group and am really frustrated at the process of building a membership. About 1/2 of my 30 invites happened instantly with no hassle. A few others checked spam and found my invite. About 9 are stuck.? Am I wrong to tell the stuck members to just open a new email and address it to? " [email protected]" where xxx is the name of our group? This would seem to mimic their following the link on our Group home page. This "Subscribe" method seems simpler than the "Invite" method. I have tested it using a second email for myself and it seems almost instantaneous. Any thoughts? Thanks
The invitation isn't too bad now. Here's mine with three bullets and a red sentence. It invited one of my email addresses to join to show you what it looks like.
?
Hello,
You have been invited by Frances to join the group .
The following message was included by Frances:
?
Please accept this invitation to join the test group. ?
- It is easy to use.
- Free
- Useful
Don't forget to simply reply to this email!
?
If you have questions about this invitation, send them to [email protected].
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may on the website. This link will expire in 14 days, on 12/26/2024 at 9:55am PST.
If you are not interested, or if xxxxxx@... is not your email address, please ignore this email.
?
Cheers,The Team
--
?
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On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 01:11 PM, James Shover wrote:
This "Subscribe" method seems simpler than the "Invite" method. I have tested it using a second email for myself and it seems almost instantaneous.
If membership in your group isn't restricted, then they should become members immediately.? Many (most?) of us have our groups restricted in an attempt to keep spammers out.
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Duane
--
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On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 02:11 PM, James Shover wrote:
Am I wrong to tell the stuck members to just open a new email and address it to? "[email protected]" where xxx is the name of our group?
First, to clarify - this advice about inviting members is for free / basic groups. Paid groups can use this method too, but they can also "direct add". The invitation method may be a bit confusing to some, but you don't get people as members with incorrect email addresses (or are less likely!)
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The recipient just has to reply to the email from that email address. Nothing else is needed.
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If they wish, they can click through with the link provided, but it is easier to just click on reply and send the email.
The email message they get says:
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may accept the invitation on the website. This link will expire in 14 days, on 12/26/2024 at 9:55am PST.
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You definitely should personalize your invite Notice so that you can entice people to comply and join your group.
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Frances
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--
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To be clear, because the response to my last post, suggests otherwise:
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The one-month-for-$20 is *not* a free trial, it's a paying trial, and it *does* include Direct Add.? (The non-paying one-month trial doesn't include that.)
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And when I Direct Add someone, I don't believe they have to respond to anything - they are instantly on.? For me, a major advantage of directly adding 10 people is so that the new members all start receiving mail and participating from the same moment, which is very important in our groups.
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I don't like invitations because the recipient has to recognize that it's a legitimate invitation.? Receiving an email from <groupname>@groups.io may not catch their eye, requiring more work from me to follow up.
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And I never encourage anyone to use the request-to-join email address.? To me, *that* would encourage unwanted requests.
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Cal
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[Moderator clarification: the System Help says a Premium trial lasts 30 days, but the button to sign up for it says 90 days. I don't know which is correct.]
From: "Frances" <frances@...>
To: "GroupManagersForum" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 3:12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Direct add members
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 02:11 PM, James Shover wrote:
Am I wrong to tell the stuck members to just open a new email and address it to? "[email protected]" where xxx is the name of our group?
First, to clarify - this advice about inviting members is for free / basic groups. Paid groups can use this method too, but they can also "direct add". The invitation method may be a bit confusing to some, but you don't get people as members with incorrect email addresses (or are less likely!)
?
The recipient just has to reply to the email from that email address. Nothing else is needed.
?
If they wish, they can click through with the link provided, but it is easier to just click on reply and send the email.
The email message they get says:
To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may accept the invitation on the website. This link will expire in 14 days, on 12/26/2024 at 9:55am PST.
?
You definitely should personalize your invite Notice so that you can entice people to comply and join your group.
?
Frances
?
--
?
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Frank
Dan Tucker
Bruce Bowman
Andy Wedge
Ken Cameron
Michael Pavan
Frances
KWKloeber
Duane