Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote: Olivia,
> But how would a person without an account request membership?
Either with the email +subscribe command (listed on the group's home page), or by clicking the "Join This Group" button on the group's home page.
If they use the email command they are not required create a password (account) at . If they use the web button they'll be prompted to create one.
> I'm worried about future new members being able to find the group and
> request membership without me being actively involved. Could the person
> recommending the group send a link?
The groups home page, showing the email commands, the join button, and other information about the group is available to non-members. The group's home page is probably the most useful link to provide when recommending the group - just as I've done.
> Related to this is that I haven't seen groups come up in
> google searches, yet yahoo groups are very findable by their subject
> matter.
They can be found in Google and other web searches. But it is true that is not yet as well known as Yahoo Groups, and there are far fewer groups here as yet. You can help your group's search ranking along by posting links to your group in many public places on the web (where appropriate, I'm not suggesting comment-spamming or other abusive techniques).
-- Shal
-- Olivia_J On the internet, nobody knows you're a cat
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Olivia, But how would a person without an account request membership? Either with the email +subscribe command (listed on the group's home page), or by clicking the "Join This Group" button on the group's home page. If they use the email command they are not required create a password (account) at groups.io. If they use the web button they'll be prompted to create one. I'm worried about future new members being able to find the group and
request membership without me being actively involved. Could the person
recommending the group send a link? The groups home page, showing the email commands, the join button, and other information about the group is available to non-members. The group's home page is probably the most useful link to provide when recommending the group - just as I've done. Related to this is that I haven't seen groups.io groups come up in
google searches, yet yahoo groups are very findable by their subject
matter. They can be found in Google and other web searches. But it is true that groups.io is not yet as well known as Yahoo Groups, and there are far fewer groups here as yet. You can help your group's search ranking along by posting links to your group in many public places on the web (where appropriate, I'm not suggesting comment-spamming or other abusive techniques). -- Shal
|
Re: how to limit visibility of archives?
Big sigh of relief! Thanks, Shal! Olivia_J
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 6:44 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote: Olivia,
> Darn. This is a deal-breaker. I absolutely must have the group listed in
> the directory, but I absolutely can't have the archives be public.
As you've already discovered, that setting is available in the drop-list. I realize now that my description implied otherwise (that both must be public or neither).
Sorry for the confusion.
-- Shal
-- Olivia_J On the internet, nobody knows you're a cat
|
Re: how to limit visibility of archives?
Olivia, 1. listed in directory, publicly viewable archives
2. listed in directory, private archives
3. not listed in directory, private archives.
Isn't #2 exactly what I want - listed in directory, but private archives? Yes it is. I didn't mean to imply that setting isn't available. Yet now reading what I wrote I see I needed to be clearer. It seems that "private archives" is not the same as "private group" in
the yahoo sense. Here it just means that the old posts are not viewable
by non-members. Is that correct? Correct. -- Shal
|
Re: how to limit visibility of archives?
Olivia, Darn. This is a deal-breaker. I absolutely must have the group listed in
the directory, but I absolutely can't have the archives be public. As you've already discovered, that setting is available in the drop-list. I realize now that my description implied otherwise (that both must be public or neither). Sorry for the confusion. -- Shal
|
Re: how to limit visibility of archives?
Shal,
I just went there and found the three options. I'm trying to understand this better, because the word "private" seems to mean something different in yahoo from in . Here are the three options (I know you're aware of them, but I'm going to ask you questions to better understand them):
1. listed in directory, publicly viewable archives 2. listed in directory, private archives 3. not listed in directory, private archives.
Isn't #2 exactly what I want - listed in directory, but private archives? It seems that "private archives" is not the same as "private group" in the yahoo sense. Here it just means that the old posts are not viewable by non-members. Is that correct? If that's correct, then I'm fine with that option. (In yahoo, a "private group" is a completely different thing.) Here, I just want a restricted group, that's listed in the directory, with private archives.?
Olivia_J
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, oliviaj catlady <oliviajcatlady@...> wrote: Thanks, Shal. Darn. This is a deal-breaker. I absolutely must have the group listed in the directory, but I absolutely can't have the archives be public. DARN.?
This would be so simple to change. Can you try to convince Mark??
I personally don't mind the one-way street with private groups staying private, because doing otherwise seems like a broken promise to people who joined when a group was private. But this other thing makes no sense, at least that I can see. I can't see any advantages of it and it seems like a trivial matter to change. Unless I'm missing something...
Olivia_J
-- Olivia_J On the internet, nobody knows you're a cat
|
Re: how to limit visibility of archives?
Thanks, Shal. Darn. This is a deal-breaker. I absolutely must have the group listed in the directory, but I absolutely can't have the archives be public. DARN.?
This would be so simple to change. Can you try to convince Mark??
I personally don't mind the one-way street with private groups staying private, because doing otherwise seems like a broken promise to people who joined when a group was private. But this other thing makes no sense, at least that I can see. I can't see any advantages of it and it seems like a trivial matter to change. Unless I'm missing something...
Olivia_J
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote: Olivia,
> In my new group here, I see that archives are "visible to anyone." I
> would like archives to be visible to subscribers only, as I see is the
> case in at least one other group I belong to. But I can't find the
> variable in "settings" for this. Where would I find this?
On the Settings page there's an item named "Privacy". This controls both whether the group is listed in the directory and whether access to the message archives are public or private (members only).
There are two things I don't like about this control.
First and foremost is that it is a one-way door: once the group's archives have been made private they cannot be made public again. I have that same complaint against Yahoo Groups, though I understand that many people think that it is a beneficial feature to protect members' privacy.
The other is that it gangs together two different things (directory listing and archive visibility). I think tying unlike things together adds to complexity and confusion.
Oh, yes, and while we're here: if you want your group to be found in web searches, best to have it listed in the directory. Even better to have the archives in public, but not if that goes against the nature of the group.
-- Shal
-- Olivia_J On the internet, nobody knows you're a cat
|
Re: how to limit visibility of archives?
(I'm clarifying my wording here as an opportunity to demonstrate a feature of groups.io not found in Yahoo Groups: the ability to edit a message that's already posted.) Olivia, In my new group here, I see that archives are "visible to anyone." I
would like archives to be visible to subscribers only, as I see is the
case in at least one other group I belong to. But I can't find the
variable in "settings" for this. Where would I find this? On the Settings page there's an item named "Privacy". This controls both whether the group is listed in the groups.io directory and whether access to the message archives are public or private (members only). There are two things I don't like about this control. First and foremost is that it is a one-way door: once the group's archives have been made private they cannot be made public again. I have that same complaint against Yahoo Groups, though I understand that many people think that it is a beneficial feature to protect members' privacy. The other is that it controls two different things (directory listing and archive visibility), forcing you to consider and choose between which combination of settings you want. I think combining unlike things together adds to complexity and confusion. Oh, yes, and while we're here: if you want your group to be found in web searches, best to have it listed in the directory. Even better to have the archives in public, but not if that goes against the nature of the group. -- Shal
|
how to limit visibility of archives?
In my new group here, I see that archives are "visible to anyone." I would like archives to be visible to subscribers only, as I see is the case in at least one other group I belong to. But I can't find the variable in "settings" for this. Where would I find this? Is this perhaps a feature that's available only to upgraded groups? Thanks for any info!
Olivia_J
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Thanks, Shal!!!?
One more question or potential stumbling block: Once I've established the group, suppose a friend recommends it to someone without a account. I understand that people don't need an account to be ?invited? to the group and join it. But how would a person without an account request membership??
I'm sure this is simple, but I haven't come up to speed yet. I'm worried about future new members being able to find the group and request membership without me being actively involved. Could the person recommending the group send a link??
Related to this is that I haven't seen groups come up in google searches, yet yahoo groups are very findable by their subject matter. I am worried in general about potential new members not finding us and/or not having an easy enrollment mechanism if they don't already have an account. This is the biggest hurdle in my mind of transferring over.
Thanks!
Olivia_J
Sent from my iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 5, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Shal Farley < shals2nd@...> wrote:
Olivia,
?I'm not sure what you mean
by the statement below, and am wondering
?whether there's a typo in it.
Hmm... It might have parsed better if I had used a couple of
commas:
?The "bad
news" in that message, with respect to Yahoo Groups, is made
?better in subsequent messages in that thread.
But what I really meant is "read the whole thread".
The first message in it has paragraphs marked "good news" and
"bad news" - the bad news paragraph essentially said that
importing messages from Yahoo Groups is hopeless. That turned out not to
be the case.
-- Shal
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Olivia,
?I'm not sure what you mean
by the statement below, and am wondering
?whether there's a typo in it.
Hmm... It might have parsed better if I had used a couple of
commas:
?The "bad
news" in that message, with respect to Yahoo Groups, is made
?better in subsequent messages in that thread.
But what I really meant is "read the whole thread".
The first message in it has paragraphs marked "good news" and
"bad news" - the bad news paragraph essentially said that
importing messages from Yahoo Groups is hopeless. That turned out not to
be the case.
-- Shal
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Thanks, Shal. I'm not sure what you mean by the statement below, and am wondering whether there's a typo in it. Even after changing ?"in that message" to "is that message" (?), I've tried and still failed to understand what you mean here:
The "bad news" in that message with respect to Yahoo Groups is made better in subsequent messages in that thread.?
Olivia_J
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:41 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote: Olivia,
> I forgot to ask: is there a way to transfer the posts (archives)? I'm
> guessing there is not.
There almost is. It is a work in progress, and for now you have to download the messages yourself and then ask [email protected] to do the import manually.
/g/beta/thread/197393#4030
The "bad news" in that message with respect to Yahoo Groups is made better in subsequent messages in that thread. But it is still clumsy.
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Olivia, I forgot to ask: is there a way to transfer the posts (archives)? I'm
guessing there is not. There almost is. It is a work in progress, and for now you have to download the messages yourself and then ask [email protected] to do the import manually. /g/beta/thread/197393#4030The "bad news" in that message with respect to Yahoo Groups is made better in subsequent messages in that thread. But it is still clumsy. By the way, that group "beta" is the official group for discussing new features and feature requests in groups.io. It is (lightly) moderated by the developer of groups.io, Mark Fletcher. /g/betaIn my opinion, a lot of the "how to" chit-chat that happens in the beta group would be better off here in GMF or in Group_Help, but it will be up to Mark to put his foot down when he's had enough of it. /g/Group_HelpFor a much more concise list of update announcements see this group: /g/updates-- Shal
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Hi Olivia, 1. After an automatic transfer, does the old yahoo group stay in
existence, with all its members? Or does it disappear, or does anything
happen to it? Nothing happens to the Yahoo Group. The only thing the transfer agent does is read the email addresses out of the Manage Members list. I'd like to maintain the old group until everything is sorted out. Perfect. When and if you want to close down access to the Yahoo Group you have to do that yourself. 2. Does groups.io have a search function for searching through posts? Yes, but as yet it is primitive (no advanced search function). 3. It seems like the automatic transfer automatically creates an account
for everyone, but requires them to create a password "the first time
they sign in." The automatic transfer only adds their email address to the group. I think it isn't until the member first accesses the web site and creates a password that an account is created for them. What if they don't sign in? My group has many members who access the
group exclusively through email. My understanding is that they will
automatically start receiving, and be able to send, email to the new
(automatically transferred) groups.io group without having to sign in. Correct. "Email only" members work the same as in Yahoo Groups: if a member doesn't need to use the web pages then they don't need a password (account). -- Shal
|
Re: questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
I forgot to ask: is there a way to transfer the posts (archives)? I'm guessing there is not.
Sent from my iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:33 PM, oliviaj_catlady < oliviajcatlady@...> wrote: Hi Shai, Nice to see you over on this end.:-) I'm on the verge of transferring my yahoo group over here. I've already created the group and I've discovered the email to [email protected], etc. I have a couple of questions: 1. After an automatic transfer, does the old yahoo group stay in existence, with all its members? Or does it disappear, or does anything happen to it? I'd like to maintain the old group until everything is sorted out. 2. ?Does have a search function for searching through posts? 3. It seems like the automatic transfer automatically creates an account for everyone, but requires them to create a password "the first time they sign in." What if they don't sign in? My group has many members who access the group exclusively through email. My understanding is that they will automatically start receiving, and be able to send, email to the new (automatically transferred) group without having to sign in. Is that correct? Thanks! Olivia_J
|
questions about transferring a yahoo group to groups.io
Hi Shai, Nice to see you over on this end.:-) I'm on the verge of transferring my yahoo group over here. I've already created the group and I've discovered the email to [email protected], etc. I have a couple of questions: 1. After an automatic transfer, does the old yahoo group stay in existence, with all its members? Or does it disappear, or does anything happen to it? I'd like to maintain the old group until everything is sorted out. 2. ?Does groups.io have a search function for searching through posts? 3. It seems like the automatic transfer automatically creates an account for everyone, but requires them to create a password "the first time they sign in." What if they don't sign in? My group has many members who access the group exclusively through email. My understanding is that they will automatically start receiving, and be able to send, email to the new (automatically transferred) groups.io group without having to sign in. Is that correct? Thanks! Olivia_J
|
You can also have things checked on the Settings page to send you an email when there are memberships pending and a few other things. Each will have instructions on what you can do by email, if anything.
Duane
|
Marvin, Want to set up a couple of groups.
So how do I go about it. The top banner of Groups.io pages has a link to "Find or Create a Group". Click that. Then in the left column will be a "Create A Group" link. Click that, fill in the fields, and click the green "Create Group" button at the bottom of the page. And also need some trusted people, as co-owners, co-moderators.
Any one want to help me out. Generally you should be asking people you know and trust personally, not strangers from a group such as this. But if you've corresponded with someone long enough by email you may feel comfortable with giving him/her that role. Also what are the e-mail commands for setting up, like subscriptions, banning,
unbanning. Group settings I think can only be made via the web pages, not by email commands. Members can subscribe, unsubscribe, and change some options in their subscription by email command. -- Shal
|
Hi. Want to set up a couple of groups. So how do I go about it. And also need some trusted people, as co-owners, co-moderators. Any one want to help me out. Also what are the e-mail commands for setting up, like subscriptions, banning, unbanning. Any ideas. Thanks. Marvin. ?
|
Duane, You mentioned in a post on Beta that it should be possible to import
the downloaded archives into Thunderbird. I haven't checked into it
much yet, but thought maybe you could offer a little insight to keep
me from reinventing the wheel if you've done it. Local folder? Each
group separate? Add-ons needed? Other tips? I've not done it, that assertion was based on the use of standard .mbx format for the messages. I'm pretty sure that's the format Thunderbird itself uses - each mailbox is represented by two files: one without an extension which is in .mbx format, and one with the extension .msf which is an index of some kind. Why Thunderbird chose to put the messages themselves in a file with no extention, rather than the .mbx extension, is a mystery to me. It is inconvenient in Windows, but maybe it made sense to people from the *nix world. Each group would be a separate .mbx file, and so would appear in Thunderbird as a separate folder. What I'm not sure of is whether it would work better to simply drop those files in the "right" folder within an existing Thunderbird installation, or try and use the Import function. In my experience the Import function is wonky and makes way too many assumptions about what it is getting and where from. But then I haven't done a substantive import since about version 3 of Thunderbird... -- Shal
|
Shal Farley
Duane