On Feb 13, 2018, at 6:38 PM, toki <toki.kantoor@...> wrote:

If the migration is done using the YahooGroups2Groups.IO software/method
Mark developed, you probably will be able to skate by.

I don’t know what the message is that is sent to transferred members is very clear about what is happening and apparently has a link for people to opt out of the transfer. We lost 2-300 people in the transfer but when I asked a sample why, they said they had moved out of the area and just not bothered to unsubscribe. It’s a neighborhood list.

The message was remarkably clear, however, because I received NO questions about it. No one was confused.

Sharon
——
Sharon Villines, Washington DC
“It’s not writing that is so hard; it’s all the thinking it requires."

On Feb 13, 2018, at 3:13 PM, Richard Carlson <rich@...> wrote:

We want to discourage potential spammers and group collectors and keep it to people who would be willing to take an extra step to prove they are worthy of our group.

I was joining a bunch of timebank lists to day to invite people to join my new [email protected] list. I found myself not joining any list that wanted to approve of me. I don’t think you can determine whether someone is worthy by asking them to answer questions. And why ask them just to be asking or to see if they are “serious.”

For years I’ve used "moderate new members" so I can approve messages from new members. That way I can catch spam but also advise new members if they send messages that are possibly offensive or off topic. But on Yahoo this was a great pain because it took about 5 clicks and waiting in between to take them off moderation. It was easier to approve all their messages than to take them off moderation.

Groups has a wonderful option which is to moderate a certain number of messages (1-5, I think). When the set number have been approved, the member is taken off moderation automatically. I find this is enough to determine if the person is there to spam or to make trouble. No need to question their intentions or qualifications.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines, Washington DC

"Give someone a book, they'll read for a day. Teach someone to write a
book and they will spend a life-time mired in paralyzing self doubt."

we want our group to be as safe as possible.? If a person is not willing to give us a bit of background info before we approve them, then we have no way of knowing whether they are truly interested in the group or whether they just want to get a bunch of email addresses.? If they don't have a shih tzu and are wanting to get one to find out what their nature etc is, then all they need to do in the questionnaire is tell us that.? We would prefer to have this information before hand rather than have to unsub them after they have been approved and had a chance to see our entire membership info.

Cherrill 
Be kinder than necessary; 
for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

As an email groups fan, why do you need to know this before approving the membership? Why not just ask them to introduce themselves in their first message and address these questions. And do you save this information?

[excess quote trimmed by moderator; quote format altered by moderator]

I sent to +help for one of my groups and I received the list of links below that is essentially an expanded view of the message footer.

I was expecting it to return information about groups.io. This address appears on the group homepage that also has a real help button in the upper left corner. I would delete this. I think it’s confusing and frustrating.

Sharon

On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:54 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:

In our pending membership, we send a questionnaire to the pending subscriber asking about 5 questions: one of them being exactly what your question is; along with 'how did you hear about our group', do you own or have you previously owned a shih tzu', what is the age of your shih tzu'... then we say 'once we hear from you, we will approve your membership.

As an email groups fan, why do you need to know this before approving the membership? Why not just ask them to introduce themselves in their first message and address these questions. And do you save this information?

One of the great values of email groups is the ability to lurk, to watch a conversation until you want to jump in. In this case it might be someone who is thinking of acquiring a shih tzu’

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines
[email protected]

On 02/13/2018 02:58 PM, Jim Betz wrote:

I am not a lawyer. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

? So I'm hearing that if you transfer a yahoo group with members in the E.U. that
you are "violating the rules related to privacy/spam".?

? 1) Is this really true?

Under the EU Data Privacy Rules, it is theoretically possible for one to
be in violation of the rules.

The big issues are:
* Where are you physically located;
* Where are the Groups.IO servers physically located;
* Where did the transfer from YahooGroups to Groups.IO physically occur?

If the migration is done using the YahooGroups2Groups.IO software/method
Mark developed, you probably will be able to skate by. (Consult a lawyer
in your local EU jurisdiction (^1), to ensure that this is the case.)

? 2) If it is true - has anyone suffered any legal consequences due to transferring someone's user who lives in the E.U.?

Whilst I haven't read anything along those lines, that absence means
absolutely nothing.

In general, the way to avoid liability, is to ask permission:
* If granted, do the action;
* If denied, do not do the action;
* If neither denied nor granted, do not do the action;

I see no way to find out which members of a yahoo group are in the E.U.

Basically, the only reliable way to find out if any members are in the
EU, or in a territory of a country within the EU, is to ask each member,
where they are physically located. Then go through the list of countries
and territories in which EU directives apply.

#####

The bigger legal risk is a copyright violation.
A user claiming that their original content was not licensed for display
on Groups.IO.

Again, you need to talk to a lawyer in your specific legal jurisdiction,
to determine what is appropriate procedures for the migration to talk place.

#####

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.


^1: The EU includes countries and territories in the Atlantic Ocean,
Indian Ocean, Pacific Ocean, Caribbean Basin, Africa, North America,
South America, Africa, Asia, Australasia, and of course Europe.
Furthermore, there are countries and territories that incorporate EU
directives, as a matter of policy, even though they are not part of the
EU.

jonathon

As Dave Sergeant said earlier, this is all about the GDPR EU regulations that come into force on 25 May 2018.? As they are from the EU legislation, they are extremely complex and are of the classic "sledgehammer to crack a nut" variety.

Loads of practical guides will appear on the internet as the date approaches, and I guess we are all going to have to read whichever of those we trust and take a view on whether we risk breaking the law for a low level complexity members' group, or we just say "stuff it" and carry on with life using Groups.io as it helps us run our groups so well.

I know where my vote lies!

In many cases I’ve resorted to admitting the member and resending the questionnaire afterwards. It seems to have a better chance of reaching them that way. Our group is NuM so there’s not much risk.

Thanks, Shai. I had created it in Member notices rather than as a New topic. Problem solved. Now I just have to reset them all to no email!

Elizabeth

On 13 Feb 2018, at 04:14, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

Elizabeth,

I am somewhat confused by the special notices thing too. I wanted to
use it to make sure all the people that have been transferred to
groups from yahoo actually knew about it. So I changed all the no
email people to special notices, and wrote an email explaining the new
situation.

So far so good.

Except you could have spared yourself some effort (I think) by checking "Disable No Email" in the Message Policies section of your group's Settings.

But I have no idea how to send this. I’m obviously missing something.

The "New Topic" page ought to have a "Send this message as a special notice." checkbox.

Alternatively, maybe I’ve messed up the whole list, since there don’t
seem to have been any messages sent or received today!

That's a little harder to guess at. Have you (or anyone else) tried to post any messages? Via web or by email?

And where are you looking? Your email Inbox? The group's Messages section? The group's Pending page?

One way to learn if messages have been attempted is to look in the Activity page. Click the "Message Activity" tab at the top to limit the list to message-related entries. Do you see any activity? Do the items give you a clue about why nothing has posted?

Shal

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In our pending membership, we send a questionnaire to the pending subscriber asking about 5 questions: one of them being exactly what your question is; along with 'how did you hear about our group', do you own or have you previously owned a shih tzu', what is the age of your shih tzu'... then we say 'once we hear from you, we will approve your membership.

Cherrill? 
Be kinder than necessary; 
for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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Not yet. We send a questionnaire in the pending member notice and require an email response. It’s not 100% effective.

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This happens in my group all the time. Drives me nuts. I would report it to Mark at support so he knows it’s happening to others besides me. He always says that the system logs it as successfully delivered, but about a third to a quarter of the time the person never gets it and I have to email them outside the system.

I have my Pending Subscription notice set for active, and it has worked until recently. I sent a Resend Pending Membership Notice to the last two people that want to subscribe to my group, but neither had replied to the notice. I sent a personal email to the two individuals asking if they received the notice, and to date one replied telling me they did not receive the notice. I told the one that replied I was going to resend them another notice, and if they would please reply back to me if they received it. This person replied a little while later that they had not received the notice, but since I felt confident they could be approved I did. It appears the Welcome Notice and the email notification I get when a person joining the group works, but not the Pending Subscription Notice. What is happening here?

Don

You are probably talking about the new GDPR regulations which will be
coming into effect from the end of May:


Until that time the existing data protection regulations are in force
which are much more relaxed and as far as I am aware there are no
issues.

I am assuming after May Mark (and Yahoo) will have to abide by the GPDR
requirements when storing and transferring data. He has not commented
to date but no doubt is aware of the new regulations.

But you have till the end of May, which is plenty of time to do the
transfers before the regulations come into force.

Dave

On 13 Feb 2018 at 11:33, Jim Betz wrote:

Hi,

? I didn't give you enough information to answer me ...

? The group I'm talking about has over 10,000 members.? That means that
simply isn't possible to get 'authorization' from all of the E.U.
members.

? Will we try?? Of course we will.? But in the end we are going to have
to transfer the group without having heard from each and every member.?
So we can't -know- we have their permission.? Can they opt out
themselves?? Yes.? That's not the issue.? The issue is about
transferring an individual person's membership (who lives in the E.U.)
from yahoo groups to groups.io.

? The real question is "does transferring someone who is in the E.U.
actually violate the E.U. regs (laws?) related to privacy?". These
regs/laws, as I understand it, are related to 'spam' and other
undesirable aspects of using the web.

? I can not disclose who told me about this - it was told to me in
confidence. - Jim B.

Mark fixed the glitches in my group?

Joe

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one of the owners of our group is from the UK… and we have several members from the EU