开云体育

On Sep 28, 2018, at 3:54 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 01:32 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
For this purpose it doesn't matter whether the message is or is not "spam" by any given criteria. All that matters is that this person didn't want it. A statement that carries the express or implied "so stop sending messages like it".
I have had some of my subscribers actively do this. They decided that they really didn't want any more group messages. Rather than bother figuring out how to unsub, a message was marked as spam, and they were unsubbed. I did my usual follow-up, and was surprised to find that they really didn't want to be added back.

It's easy to lose sight of the fact that sometimes the FBL mechanism works exactly the way it's supposed to.

This points out that some subscribers/members recognize that it is easier to unsubscribe by mis-marking Groups.io messages as SPAM, than to find and go through the unsubscribe process of requesting and confirming Un-Subscription.

It should be easier to find and use the 'unsubscribe process' than to ‘mark a message as Spam’.
I was suggesting that there should be an additional ‘confirm this is Spam’ step which includes the warning that this also includes an automatic ‘unsubscribe me’ command.
As long as the ‘unsubscribe process’ has a equal number or more steps than the ‘mark it as Spam’ process, users are encouraged to mis-mark messages as Spam, which also makes Groups.io look more like a Spam source.

The FBL mechanism has the unintended consequence of unsubscribing them and making Groups.io look bad, because Email Providers also mark messages as Spam without their clients (our subscribers/members) knowing - not to mention the frustration it also causes group owners.

So the question is: Do we really want groups.io to ignore such requests, at the cost of possibly being labeled a spammer site? Think really hard about that.

I think the question is how to inform users how to unsubscribe AND what is Spam, that their Email Providers may be mis-marking messages to them as Spam, and what it means when a message is marked as Spam.

Back in late February, Norton Internet Security blocked the entire groups.io domain. AVG soon followed. You can read all about it here. The problem persisted for nearly a week. I had moved my group(s) a little over a week prior to that. I had a very difficult time convincing everyone that we hadn't just made a horrible mistake. Compared to that, an occasional "false alarm" strikes me as a minor inconvenience.

Better education = less ignorance = less “false alarms”.

Assuming we are in agreement to this point (and I suspect we're still far from unanimous), anything we can do to educate our subscribers is helpful.

Agreed, but I favor prevention over repairs.

Some good tools are already available, if not well-known.

Unknown tools are rarely used.

Perhaps the unsub notification sent to the subscriber could include a link to the GMF wiki entry, or its equivalent in the system Help (/static/help#fbl). I could support that as a suggestion in beta.

This is still 'putting the horse behind the cart’. Success requires reducing and eliminating unwanted un-subscriptions. I do agree that a more effective unsub notification should remain as a ‘last line of defense’.

However, as group owners, we should know our subscribers. We should know if the wiki entry needs to be beefed up or dumbed down for the people in our respective groups.

I not convinced that 1000s of wiki rewrites are the best answer - if multiple versions of the same information is required, perhaps user selected menu options should be included for "beefed up or dumbed down” language.

Again professionally written information seems more likely to effectively communicate than many amateur notes.

I recognize that this would cost money. Not to scare anyone away by suggesting 'opening Pandora’s Box', but Mark’s recent survey asked what would you be willing to pay for. I have 11 groups, all under 100 members, I’d be willing to pay something nominal - maybe a penny a member a month (to a maximum of $5 or $10) - for no additional features, but to rewrite information, better organization, and eliminate ambiguities of terms e.g. subscriber (email only) vs member (web access) users. Would it be worthwhile for Groups.io to collect these small fees? I pay Apple 99 cents/month for additional cloud storage...

We should know how prevalent the problem really is in each group, and take action accordingly. We, individually, should take ownership of this and other things, to make everything as smooth as possible for our members. That is the job we signed up for.

It would be great if Parents could take care of every problem of their Children, but most people realize Professional help is more effective and efficient for some things...