Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
You must watch lot of MTV Steve? Or listen to rap songs? Or black reality shows? Are menthol cigarettes cultural?
Just to also consider that black folks have embraced and continue to embrace derogatory, racist, judgmental, stereotypes assigned to them by their oppressors - you know to take the power away, or surrender, accept as they have lives to live!!
I wonder though - do you have derogatory terms for white southern women - say of Appalachia? Is it cultural for them? Is it a reflection of the entire White race? Or more kids equates to more money from guvmint? Hence socio-economic? I personally don¡¯t judge either a black teen mom from St. Louis or white teen mom from West Virginia.?
You are from what I can tell a very friendly, nice guy if I ran into you in my neighborhood but the casual racism you show, though not obvious to you, is very transparent to some! (And I do see many older white guys in my neighborhood exactly like you - not kidding!)
Yours truly, The resident Indian Chief.?
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On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:52 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
Ravi:? Of course,?doesn¡¯t mean Steve¡¯s comments aren't racist - Black teens do have more babies, but it¡¯s not a race thing more so than socioeconomic - poverty, education etc and system racism that¡¯s the cause of many other issues also is the contributor.
It's really rather fascinating.? I see it up close, from both the women's side, and the men's side. Even delicate discussions that get into the nitty gritty. Baby Mama and Baby Daddy issues across the board.
Many of the things you indicate above are true.? But there are cultural components as well.? I won't go into them now, but I follow some of the facebook postings of some of women who have worked for me.
There are cultural differences.? There just are.? And I am not making a value judgement about it.?? ?
? On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via < emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.? Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Ravi:? Of course,?doesn¡¯t mean Steve¡¯s comments aren't racist - Black teens do have more babies, but it¡¯s not a race thing more so than socioeconomic - poverty, education etc and system racism that¡¯s the cause of many other issues also is the contributor.
It's really rather fascinating.? I see it up close, from both the women's side, and the men's side. Even delicate discussions that get into the nitty gritty. Baby Mama and Baby Daddy issues across the board.
Many of the things you indicate above are true.? But there are cultural components as well.? I won't go into them now, but I follow some of the facebook postings of some of women who have worked for me.
There are cultural differences.? There just are.? And I am not making a value judgement about it.??
?
? On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via < emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.? Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Thank you for your balanced comments, chief.? I respect your comment below.? It is worth thinking about. It's sort of what I alluded to when I indicated that there is a fine line between personal reasonability or being a victim.? But, that evidently got me labeled me as a racist.
Life is 100% about nuances.? Thousands of shades of grey.? Tough love, or just "let's do better next time".? Just one example we face as parents.??
When Em says democracy is flawed.? Well of course it is.? And it is a work in progress.? I believe it is incredibly precious, and I will work to maintain its integrity in the face of monumental challenges going with it. To do away with it, or the symbols of it, because it was founded by white men, some of whom owned slaves is foolhardy beyond comprehension.
And then the rule of law.? Another facet we may have taken for granted.? Another immense challenge to the democracy.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:16:36 PM CDT, RC <chivukula.ravi@...> wrote:
Teen birth rates are higher among
American Indian/Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander,
Hispanic, and Black adolescents than among teens overall¡
Of course doesn¡¯t mean Steve¡¯s comments aren't racist - Black teens do have more babies, but it¡¯s not a race thing more so than socioeconomic - poverty, education etc and system racism that¡¯s the cause of many other issues also is the contributor.
From the article:
"The links between teen childbearing and family planning and
socioeconomic characteristics, as well as the relatively high rates of
adolescent childbearing among Black and Hispanic teens, can be
attributed largely to inequities in access to family planning services
and information; differences in attitudes about contraception, teen
pregnancy, and teen childbearing; and distrust of medical professionals
due to experiences with providers and some groups¡¯ history of
mistreatment by the medical field.10 Professionals working with youth should be?aware of and ?the historical reasons disparities in adolescent reproductive health and childbearing exist in the United States."
I think one of the hallmarks of conservatives are how they approach any issues with a judgmental perspective rather than an empathetic one. Some sort of legal, moral framework or an indication of personal failure rather than the humanity of it.
Oh look son, a racist!
Prove your ¡°fact¡± first, and then I will answer. ?As I do not agree with the premise, I need facts first. You cannot provide them.
What you are engaging in now is called gaslighting, it¡¯s an old, tried and true game of those who have no integrity, to try and turn the tables on the other person when the other person tells them something about themselves that they don¡¯t like.
Too bad. ? I asked a simple question.? You obviously are afraid to answer it.
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
Since you have indicated this is disgusting racist, and sexist matter I have brought up, I have asked for some clarification. But for you to do so would undermine all your assertions about this being a sexist and racist issue. That is why you will not answer the simple question.
And now you are engaging in comical obfuscation ala Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and others, trying to make it appear that I am one not willing to back up my assertion.
I'm not buying, and I hope others here are not as well.
As me a question about something. I will not be afraid to answer it.
Ok this once I¡¯ll play your stupid game.
You made an assertion, provided no evidence of any sort¡ because you can¡¯t ¡ and then demanded that I ¡°answer¡± it, thereby validating, to some degree, your racist ?and sexist ¡±fact.¡±
Prove it first if you want an answer. You can¡¯t. Until then I will not engage with racism, sexism or any other kind of bigotry. ? I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via < steve.sundur@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
? On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via < emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.? Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Sal, ask me a straightforward question.? I will answer it.
You, on the other hand, will not answer a straightforward question.
What do you do instead?? You accuse me of the obfuscation you are engaging in. These are the tactics we see on display on Fox news and other similar outlets.
What else do you do?? Once your weak arguments have been exposed you wheel in the name calling battery.? We call that a desperation move.
But I'm not falling for it.
Maybe best to stay in your friendly confines.? A forum like this where ideas are exchanged can be a dangerous, or at least threatening place.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 07:48:09 PM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Oh look son, a racist!
Prove your ¡°fact¡± first, and then I will answer. ?As I do not agree with the premise, I need facts first. You cannot provide them.
What you are engaging in now is called gaslighting, it¡¯s an old, tried and true game of those who have no integrity, to try and turn the tables on the other person when the other person tells them something about themselves that they don¡¯t like.
Too bad.
On Jul 31, 2022, at 7:31 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
I asked a simple question.? You obviously are afraid to answer it.
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
Since you have indicated this is disgusting racist, and sexist matter I have brought up, I have asked for some clarification. But for you to do so would undermine all your assertions about this being a sexist and racist issue. That is why you will not answer the simple question.
And now you are engaging in comical obfuscation ala Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and others, trying to make it appear that I am one not willing to back up my assertion.
I'm not buying, and I hope others here are not as well.
As me a question about something. I will not be afraid to answer it.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 06:55:33 PM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Ok this once I¡¯ll play your stupid game.
You made an assertion, provided no evidence of any sort¡ because you can¡¯t ¡ and then demanded that I ¡°answer¡± it, thereby validating, to some degree, your racist ?and sexist ¡±fact.¡±
Prove it first if you want an answer. You can¡¯t. Until then I will not engage with racism, sexism or any other kind of bigotry. On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Teen birth rates are higher among
American Indian/Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander,
Hispanic, and Black adolescents than among teens overall¡
Of course doesn¡¯t mean Steve¡¯s comments aren't racist - Black teens do have more babies, but it¡¯s not a race thing more so than socioeconomic - poverty, education etc and system racism that¡¯s the cause of many other issues also is the contributor.
From the article:
"The links between teen childbearing and family planning and
socioeconomic characteristics, as well as the relatively high rates of
adolescent childbearing among Black and Hispanic teens, can be
attributed largely to inequities in access to family planning services
and information; differences in attitudes about contraception, teen
pregnancy, and teen childbearing; and distrust of medical professionals
due to experiences with providers and some groups¡¯ history of
mistreatment by the medical field.10 Professionals working with youth should be?aware of and ?the historical reasons disparities in adolescent reproductive health and childbearing exist in the United States."
I think one of the hallmarks of conservatives are how they approach any issues with a judgmental perspective rather than an empathetic one. Some sort of legal, moral framework or an indication of personal failure rather than the humanity of it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Oh look son, a racist!
Prove your ¡°fact¡± first, and then I will answer. ?As I do not agree with the premise, I need facts first. You cannot provide them.
What you are engaging in now is called gaslighting, it¡¯s an old, tried and true game of those who have no integrity, to try and turn the tables on the other person when the other person tells them something about themselves that they don¡¯t like.
Too bad. ? I asked a simple question.? You obviously are afraid to answer it.
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
Since you have indicated this is disgusting racist, and sexist matter I have brought up, I have asked for some clarification. But for you to do so would undermine all your assertions about this being a sexist and racist issue. That is why you will not answer the simple question.
And now you are engaging in comical obfuscation ala Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and others, trying to make it appear that I am one not willing to back up my assertion.
I'm not buying, and I hope others here are not as well.
As me a question about something. I will not be afraid to answer it.
Ok this once I¡¯ll play your stupid game.
You made an assertion, provided no evidence of any sort¡ because you can¡¯t ¡ and then demanded that I ¡°answer¡± it, thereby validating, to some degree, your racist ?and sexist ¡±fact.¡±
Prove it first if you want an answer. You can¡¯t. Until then I will not engage with racism, sexism or any other kind of bigotry. ? I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via < steve.sundur@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
? On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via < emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.? Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Oh look son, a racist!
Prove your ¡°fact¡± first, and then I will answer. ?As I do not agree with the premise, I need facts first. You cannot provide them.
What you are engaging in now is called gaslighting, it¡¯s an old, tried and true game of those who have no integrity, to try and turn the tables on the other person when the other person tells them something about themselves that they don¡¯t like.
Too bad.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2022, at 7:31 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
I asked a simple question.? You obviously are afraid to answer it.
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
Since you have indicated this is disgusting racist, and sexist matter I have brought up, I have asked for some clarification. But for you to do so would undermine all your assertions about this being a sexist and racist issue. That is why you will not answer the simple question.
And now you are engaging in comical obfuscation ala Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and others, trying to make it appear that I am one not willing to back up my assertion.
I'm not buying, and I hope others here are not as well.
As me a question about something. I will not be afraid to answer it.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 06:55:33 PM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Ok this once I¡¯ll play your stupid game.
You made an assertion, provided no evidence of any sort¡ because you can¡¯t ¡ and then demanded that I ¡°answer¡± it, thereby validating, to some degree, your racist ?and sexist ¡±fact.¡±
Prove it first if you want an answer. You can¡¯t. Until then I will not engage with racism, sexism or any other kind of bigotry. On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
I asked a simple question.? You obviously are afraid to answer it.
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
Since you have indicated this is disgusting racist, and sexist matter I have brought up, I have asked for some clarification. But for you to do so would undermine all your assertions about this being a sexist and racist issue. That is why you will not answer the simple question.
And now you are engaging in comical obfuscation ala Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and others, trying to make it appear that I am one not willing to back up my assertion.
I'm not buying, and I hope others here are not as well.
As me a question about something. I will not be afraid to answer it.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 06:55:33 PM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Ok this once I¡¯ll play your stupid game.
You made an assertion, provided no evidence of any sort¡ because you can¡¯t ¡ and then demanded that I ¡°answer¡± it, thereby validating, to some degree, your racist ?and sexist ¡±fact.¡±
Prove it first if you want an answer. You can¡¯t. Until then I will not engage with racism, sexism or any other kind of bigotry.
On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Ok this once I¡¯ll play your stupid game.
You made an assertion, provided no evidence of any sort¡ because you can¡¯t ¡ and then demanded that I ¡°answer¡± it, thereby validating, to some degree, your racist ?and sexist ¡±fact.¡±
Prove it first if you want an answer. You can¡¯t. Until then I will not engage with racism, sexism or any other kind of bigotry.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
I guess we can conclude, Sal, that you are unwilling, or unable to answer the question posed below. I assume, because it would undermine your assertion that the example?I brought up indicates vile and disgusting sexism, racism, and who knows what else.
When asked to provide one scintilla of evidence along these lines, you have nothing to say.
Of course, when I made my initial comment, you wasted no time in your response.? Like maybe a minute.? And yet, when asked to back up your claim, nothing but silence.??
I'm afraid this is indicative of many of the assertions made here. The truth, or facts, are of secondary importance.? Just a need to vent, I guess.
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:08:28 PM CDT, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
I dare you to answer this question.??
Why do you think so many black women under the age of 21, including many in their teens, are having babies?
You cannot dispute that this is the case, so why do you think this would be?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:35:40 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
Okay. Thanks for your reply.? Nuff said.? I can see that personal accountability\responsibility has no bearing in your world view. I work with, and have mentored many black women, and have worked closely with many black men.? This may provide me a different perspective from someone in your situation who, I am guessing, has almost no contact with anyone in the black community.? The conclusions you draw are second hand, at best.
But that does not stop you from presenting your opinions as the ultimate authority.
?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Be glad to answer¡ it¡¯s racist, straight up. ?Also sexist. ?Singling out black women, when the problem runs across most of humanity, while also giving the men who got ?them into these situations a free pass is disgraceful. ?
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On Jul 31, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Was wondering that myself! ?What S word? ?And how did we get from more equal pay to innovators being the bad guys? ?I don¡¯t understand the train of thought here.
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On Jul 31, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
?On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above??? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Well, great minds and all that.
It was a huge mistake. ?Thise mofos pointed guns at federal agents.
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On Jul 31, 2022, at 9:00 AM, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
?On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 07:35 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:
I knew when they let the Bundys off with basically a slap on the wrist it was a huge mistake, ?it would just embolden them.
?
You know, I thought exactly the same.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 07:35 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:
I knew when they let the Bundys off with basically a slap on the wrist it was a huge mistake, ?it would just embolden them.
?
You know, I thought exactly the same.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above??? ? --
Em
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??On Jul 30, 2022, at 9:55 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote: ?
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 08:51:57 PM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Is that what the Magic 8-ball has told you?
What makes you think working-class people do not also benefit from the focus on gender, race and other, as you put it, ¡°peripheral¡± issues? ?What makes you think there isn¡¯t a large overlap in the groups in other words? (Hint: they aren¡¯t peripheral to the millions affected by them.)
Or do you only mean working-class white, straight, married people?? What funny about this is that "working class people" is exactly what the Progressives are focused on.? I have no idea what news you're watching, but whatever it is, they want you to believe it's these other things.
Democrats are losing elections. Why is that?
Republicans cheat (duh). There was a time, in the not too distant past when Democrats held large majorities in the congress.? What has changed?
See above. The majority of Americans are not overly concerned about making sure trans people are able to use whichever bathroom they are comfortable using on a given day.?
Oh please, all the nonsense about bathrooms has been pulled almost entirely by the GOP, which you would know if you watched something other than Faux News. The majority of Americans do not feel the need to spend millions of dollars to change the names of schools in San Francisco, so they are more politically correct, while the schools have major infrastructure issues.?
Neither do the Democrats. ?In case you haven¡¯t heard, they¡¯ve ?been trying to focus on infrastructure, gun control, Medicare, getting the country past Covid and a little thing called the climate emergency. The majority of Americans are not concerned about hurting someone's feelings by not addressing them by their preferred pronoun.
This pronoun business, which I had nearly forgotten about, really has you unhinged. ?Grow up and get over it, nobody else cares. The majority of Americans do not want to see the southern border overrun by migrants seeking asylum in the U.S. The majority of Americans are appalled at seeing rampant open air drug use, and people defecating in the streets in some?democrat?run cities. Perhaps if you were more personally impacted by this, it would make a difference to you.
Grow the hell up and stop the insane babbling, you sound like an unhinged Archie Bunker having fits over the (gasp!) black family moving in next door, railing against Mexicans while employing them to cut your grass and raise your kids and clean your house. ?? ? You might think that the abortion debate might be enough to turn the tide in the democrats favor, but even that doesn't seem to be moving the needle much.
Keep telling yourself all this, you and your fantasy-land seem quite comfortable with each other. I am very much in favor of the climate bill crafted by Schumer and Manchin.? Just hope Christine Sinema doesn't torpedo it, due to a petty ego tantrum.
If she does, blame your party and the Russian-backed $$ she¡¯s undoubtedly getting. ?And it¡¯s Krysten.?
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 07:17:21 PM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
Our country was set up as a flawed democracy.? And the rich and powerful and political get away with all kinds of stuff and always have.? If we elect an authoritarian cult leader, we can kiss it goodbye.? And the would-be authoritarians are chomping at the bit...there's more than just the Grand Wizard of Whine out there.? Better a flawed democracy than no democracy.??
I'm sorry.? I know you think people use the "S" word in an attempt to put a label on others, but I can't help but think that the ideas you espouse basically do away with personal initiative.? Yes, the distribution of wealth is out of whack.? Seriously so. And the new climate change bill has provisions that will address that to some extent.? That, along with the global minimum tax for corporations that Janet Yellin is working on.?
But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.?
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On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 08:51:57 PM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Is that what the Magic 8-ball has told you?
What makes you think working-class people do not also benefit from the focus on gender, race and other, as you put it, ¡°peripheral¡± issues? ?What makes you think there isn¡¯t a large overlap in the groups in other words? (Hint: they aren¡¯t peripheral to the millions affected by them.)
Or do you only mean working-class white, straight, married people?? What funny about this is that "working class people" is exactly what the Progressives are focused on.? I have no idea what news you're watching, but whatever it is, they want you to believe it's these other things.
Democrats are losing elections. Why is that? There was a time, in the not too distant past when Democrats held large majorities in the congress.? What has changed? The majority of Americans are not overly concerned about making sure trans people are able to use whichever bathroom they are comfortable using on a given day.? The majority of Americans do not feel the need to spend millions of dollars to change the names of schools in San Francisco, so they are more politically correct, while the schools have major infrastructure issues.? The majority of Americans are not concerned about hurting someone's feelings by not addressing them by their preferred pronoun. The majority of Americans do not want to see the southern border overrun by migrants seeking asylum in the U.S. The majority of Americans are appalled at seeing rampant open air drug use, and people defecating in the streets in some?democrat?run cities. Perhaps if you were more personally impacted by this, it would make a difference to you.
?? ? You might think that the abortion debate might be enough to turn the tide in the democrats favor, but even that doesn't seem to be moving the needle much. I am very much in favor of the climate bill crafted by Schumer and Manchin.? Just hope Christine Sinema doesn't torpedo it, due to a petty ego tantrum.
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Sal Sunshine
Emily Mae