Re: Custom replacement meter
On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 02:27 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
I converted a lot of my sweep tube stuff to 6146's over the years, including Swans and Drake T4XCs. It was a natural thing to do given the tubes back then.
The original Navigator meter was what we called a "wiggler" at Prime Instruments. Most of the 1 mA meters like that we made were in the 1000 ohm or 1 volt FS range. The 10mA would have been around 100 ohm coils, still in the 1V range.
What was the original Navigator plate shunt? Was it 33 ohms or 3.3 ohms? My schematic copy is not clear.?
3.3 ohms would have been .24*3.3? = .792V or 79.2 ohm movement resistance with a 10mA meter. That sounds about like the meters we made. A 10mA wiggler was typically in the 100-ohm coil resistance range.
We manufactured meters like that at Prime. Our total bill of material was something like 50 cents in 1980 for an out the door meter but we made truckloads of them. Not the best meter in the world. We put a dot of silicone oil in the jewel to stop the bounce high torque light weight movements and pointers typically have. A different viscosity for different damping.? :)
73 Tom
The original shunt was 33 ohms.? Mine measured 36.7 ohms.? Your comment about the silicone oil to stop the bounce is something I never heard before.? Maybe this original meter had the same treatment but the oil migrated out of the movement or dried up over the years.? If I ever run into that type of problem again, I'll give the oil treatment a try.? I wonder how the internal meter construction on the Navigator meter differs from higher quality meters.? I've run into the same bouncing needle problem a couple of times in the past with Tentec Centurion amplifiers.??
?
73, Floyd - K8AC
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Re: Custom replacement meter
I converted a lot of my sweep tube stuff to 6146's over the
years, including Swans and Drake T4XCs. It was a natural thing to
do given the tubes back then.
The original Navigator meter was what we called a "wiggler" at
Prime Instruments. Most of the 1 mA meters like that we made were
in the 1000 ohm or 1 volt FS range. The 10mA would have been
around 100 ohm coils, still in the 1V range.
What was the original Navigator plate shunt? Was it 33 ohms or 3.3
ohms? My schematic copy is not clear.?
3.3 ohms would have been .24*3.3? = .792V or 79.2 ohm movement
resistance with a 10mA meter. That sounds about like the meters we
made. A 10mA wiggler was typically in the 100-ohm coil resistance
range.
We manufactured meters like that at Prime. Our total bill of
material was something like 50 cents in 1980 for an out the door
meter but we made truckloads of them. Not the best meter in the
world. We put a dot of silicone oil in the jewel to stop the
bounce high torque light weight movements and pointers typically
have. A different viscosity for different damping.? :)
73 Tom
On 4/19/2025 7:55 AM, Floyd - K8AC via
groups.io wrote:
On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 09:17 PM, W0PWE wrote:
The meter on Amazon is slightly smaller (2.2" square
vs 2.375") but I don't think that will matter.?
I just measured the meter I installed and it's 2 1/2" wide and 2
1/8" high.? The purpose of my post was just to show what you
could do with the Tonne software, but Tom bought up all the
important things regarding the meter electrical parameters and
the shunt change.? If your Challenger meter is calibrated for
grid current, you might want to use a 0-1ma meter with a shunt
for the grid current as well.? As I mentioned, the meter I
bought was supposed to be 10ma full scale, but was really about
8.7 ma full scale.? Another thought about the meters: there are
a few vintage meters in the black bakelite housing on ebay -
some of them even out of Johnson equipment.? A day or so after I
looked at them, the buyers sent me offers of 20 to 35% below
their asking price.? I think that even with the vintage meters
you can get to the scale plate to change it.? By the way, I
built a Challenger from a kit back around 1963 or so.? I recall
converting the finals to 6146s for reasons I don't remember.??
?
73, Floyd - K8AC
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Re: Custom replacement meter
On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 09:17 PM, W0PWE wrote:
The meter on Amazon is slightly smaller (2.2" square vs 2.375") but I don't think that will matter.?
I just measured the meter I installed and it's 2 1/2" wide and 2 1/8" high.? The purpose of my post was just to show what you could do with the Tonne software, but Tom bought up all the important things regarding the meter electrical parameters and the shunt change.? If your Challenger meter is calibrated for grid current, you might want to use a 0-1ma meter with a shunt for the grid current as well.? As I mentioned, the meter I bought was supposed to be 10ma full scale, but was really about 8.7 ma full scale.? Another thought about the meters: there are a few vintage meters in the black bakelite housing on ebay - some of them even out of Johnson equipment.? A day or so after I looked at them, the buyers sent me offers of 20 to 35% below their asking price.? I think that even with the vintage meters you can get to the scale plate to change it.? By the way, I built a Challenger from a kit back around 1963 or so.? I recall converting the finals to 6146s for reasons I don't remember.??
?
73, Floyd - K8AC
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Re: Custom replacement meter
Thanks for sharing the meter info Floyd. The solution you came up with looks great. I have been trying to determine what to do about the meter in my Challenger. It works but a nice meter in there would make it more fun to operate. The meter on Amazon is slightly smaller (2.2" square vs 2.375") but I don't think that will matter.?
?
I have been hearing about Tonne software for years but never pursued it. I guess I need to get on the band wagon.?
73 - Jerry - W0PWE
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Re: Custom replacement meter
On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 11:51 AM, Steve Bookout, NR4M wrote:
I second the endorsement for the Tonno meter software.?
Super flexible to use.?
When I built my last homebrew amp, I came up with some great looking meter faces. I even added a ‘goat’ logo down in the corner where the ‘FS’ notation was. In the contest world, my station is known as ‘The Goat Farm’, so that was fun to add.?
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I hadn't used the software for a couple of years and found my copy was many levels behind the current.? I downloaded the latest version and found that my old license key worked just fine.??
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Re: Custom replacement meter
On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 11:33 AM, jsternmd wrote:
Which meter on Amazon?
Jerry NY2KW
?
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Here's the one I used:
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There are many others, slightly more expensive, listed on Amazon.? I've bought a few of these meters on Amazon and the others have all been spot-on with the full scale current or voltage reading.? The damping action is as good as the expensive vintage meters.??
?
73, Floyd - K8AC
?
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Re: Custom replacement meter
Tom - correct on all counts.? I changed the shunt resistor from 33 to 1 ohm, 1% and used a 5k pot in series with the meter to calibrate the meter.? That pot is not in series with the meter when the meter switch is in the grid position.? The meter was advertised as a 10ma movement, but I measured full scale current at? 8.7 ma and 73.9 mv for a full scale reading.? I didn't worry about the accuracy on the native scale as you just tune the Navigator grid for maximum and not a particular value.? The original 33 ohm shunt resistor had aged to 36.7 ohms, so the plate current accuracy is better with the new meter.??
?
73, Floyd - K8AC
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Re: Custom replacement meter
What is the mV of the meter?
Let's assume it is the 75 mV 10 mA meter on Amazon.
To read 250mA FS at 10mA the meter shunt of a 75mV meter has to be .3125 ohms. It is 33 ohms now. You are going to slam the meter unless you change the shunt.
With a lower resistance meter you either have to add meter series resistance or change the shunt or do both.
Not adding a series resistor to the meter the system might be too critical for things like switch resistance. The meter resistance in this 75mV 10 mA example would only be 7.5 ohms.
I would just buy a 1 ohm 1%? 1 watt shunt resistor and figure out what is needed in series with the meter to properly scale the meter. But the scaling series resistor would depend what the full scale voltage of the meter you have now is.
73 Tom
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On 4/17/2025 11:25 AM, Floyd - K8AC via groups.io wrote: 0-10ma meter on Amazon for just $6.47
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Re: Custom replacement meter
I second the endorsement for the Tonno meter software.? Super flexible to use.? When I built my last homebrew amp, I came up with some great looking meter faces. I even added a ‘goat’ logo down in the corner where the ‘FS’ notation was. In the contest world, my station is known as ‘The Goat Farm’, so that was fun to add.?
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On Apr 17, 2025, at 11:26?AM, Floyd - K8AC via groups.io <floydsense@...> wrote:
? While restoring a recently acquired Johnson Navigator transmitter, I was surprised at the very low quality of the stock meter.? It was completely undamped and of questionable accuracy.? I picked up a replacement 0-10ma meter on Amazon for just $6.47 and made a new face for it with the Meter program by Tonne Software.? I've used these meters in other homebrew projects and found them to be of considerably higher quality than the original Johnson meter.? Here's how the completed meter face looks:
?
I printed the meter face on an inkjet printer using matte finish photo paper.? I removed the original meter face and glued the new face to the original scale plate and then replace the plate.? The Tonne Meter program allows you to design the scale, graphics and text and you can even make a meter face with multiple scales.?
?
73, Floyd? - K8AC?
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Re: Custom replacement meter
Which meter on Amazon? Jerry NY2KW
On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 11:25?AM Floyd - K8AC via <floydsense= [email protected]> wrote: While restoring a recently acquired Johnson Navigator transmitter, I was surprised at the very low quality of the stock meter.? It was completely undamped and of questionable accuracy.? I picked up a replacement 0-10ma meter on Amazon for just $6.47 and made a new face for it with the Meter program by Tonne Software.? I've used these meters in other homebrew projects and found them to be of considerably higher quality than the original Johnson meter.? Here's how the completed meter face looks:
?
I printed the meter face on an inkjet printer using matte finish photo paper.? I removed the original meter face and glued the new face to the original scale plate and then replace the plate.? The Tonne Meter program allows you to design the scale, graphics and text and you can even make a meter face with multiple scales.?
?
73, Floyd? - K8AC?
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While restoring a recently acquired Johnson Navigator transmitter, I was surprised at the very low quality of the stock meter.? It was completely undamped and of questionable accuracy.? I picked up a replacement 0-10ma meter on Amazon for just $6.47 and made a new face for it with the Meter program by Tonne Software.? I've used these meters in other homebrew projects and found them to be of considerably higher quality than the original Johnson meter.? Here's how the completed meter face looks:
?
I printed the meter face on an inkjet printer using matte finish photo paper.? I removed the original meter face and glued the new face to the original scale plate and then replace the plate.? The Tonne Meter program allows you to design the scale, graphics and text and you can even make a meter face with multiple scales.?
?
73, Floyd? - K8AC?
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Re: Mystery Wire in Valiant Wiring Harness
Sorry Dave. Can’t keep all my cousins straight!
Mike
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On Apr 12, 2025, at 00:48, David Harmon via groups.io <K6XYZDave@...> wrote:
?Correction....I am not Gary Harmon....I am Dave Harmon.....hahahah
Glad to help out with the pictures Larry...uhh...kaff kaff...Mike!!
Dave Harmon
K6XYZ
Sperry, OK.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Harmon via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 8:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EFJohnson-Amateur-Radio] Mystery Wire in Valiant Wiring Harness
Hi Donald,
I spent a lot of hours tracing the wire numbers in the harness description page and finally figured it out.
The “mystery” blue wire was intended to be there all along. I guess that’s why it was shown in the harness description page. It supplies B++ to the center of the mod transformer primary (sorta important!!).
The problem was that there were no references to the blue wire (71A/71B) in the assembly manual. In addition, some steps were missing and incorrect in the wiring of TS25 (where the mod transformer leads are connected). The assembly manual instructs the builder to connect the red wire from the mod transformer to lug 4. That is WRONG! Lug 4 is one side of the transformer secondary. The instruction SHOULD have specified to connect the red transformer wire to lug 3, as well as (blue) wire 71A. The red wire is the center tap of the transformer primary, and has to be connected to the B++ bus.
FYI, the other end of the blue wire (71B) should be connected to lug 2 of TS18, which is connected to the B++ bus via the other blue wire on lug 2.
It took a lot of digging to figure it all out, but I had some great help from Gary Harmon and Ashley Hall in the way of some helpful photos.
Now you have “the rest of the story”!
Mike, WB0LDJ
On Apr 11, 2025, at 18:43, Donald Hellen <donhellen@...> wrote:
?On Sun, 06 Apr 2025 21:10:51 -0700, "Mike Harmon" <mharmon@...> wrote:
Considering that it is the last numbered wire in the harness, I wonder if it was put there for some purpose, and then never used, or maybe it was originally used for some purpose which was then deleted. Or maybe the drawing is a revised one and your model doesn't have the
revision installed?
Donald KX8K
----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP
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Re: Mystery Wire in Valiant Wiring Harness
Correction....I am not Gary Harmon....I am Dave Harmon.....hahahah
Glad to help out with the pictures Larry...uhh...kaff kaff...Mike!!
Dave Harmon
K6XYZ
Sperry, OK.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Harmon via groups.io Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 8:30 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [EFJohnson-Amateur-Radio] Mystery Wire in Valiant Wiring Harness Hi Donald, I spent a lot of hours tracing the wire numbers in the harness description page and finally figured it out. The “mystery” blue wire was intended to be there all along. I guess that’s why it was shown in the harness description page. It supplies B++ to the center of the mod transformer primary (sorta important!!). The problem was that there were no references to the blue wire (71A/71B) in the assembly manual. In addition, some steps were missing and incorrect in the wiring of TS25 (where the mod transformer leads are connected). The assembly manual instructs the builder to connect the red wire from the mod transformer to lug 4. That is WRONG! Lug 4 is one side of the transformer secondary. The instruction SHOULD have specified to connect the red transformer wire to lug 3, as well as (blue) wire 71A. The red wire is the center tap of the transformer primary, and has to be connected to the B++ bus. FYI, the other end of the blue wire (71B) should be connected to lug 2 of TS18, which is connected to the B++ bus via the other blue wire on lug 2. It took a lot of digging to figure it all out, but I had some great help from Gary Harmon and Ashley Hall in the way of some helpful photos. Now you have “the rest of the story”! Mike, WB0LDJ On Apr 11, 2025, at 18:43, Donald Hellen <donhellen@...> wrote:
?On Sun, 06 Apr 2025 21:10:51 -0700, "Mike Harmon" <mharmon@...> wrote:
Considering that it is the last numbered wire in the harness, I wonder if it was put there for some purpose, and then never used, or maybe it was originally used for some purpose which was then deleted. Or maybe the drawing is a revised one and your model doesn't have the
revision installed?
Donald KX8K
----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP
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Re: Mystery Wire in Valiant Wiring Harness
Hi Donald,
I spent a lot of hours tracing the wire numbers in the harness description page and finally figured it out.
The “mystery” blue wire was intended to be there all along. I guess that’s why it was shown in the harness description page. It supplies B++ to the center of the mod transformer primary (sorta important!!).
The problem was that there were no references to the blue wire (71A/71B) in the assembly manual. In addition, some steps were missing and incorrect in the wiring of TS25 (where the mod transformer leads are connected). The assembly manual instructs the builder to connect the red wire from the mod transformer to lug 4. That is WRONG! Lug 4 is one side of the transformer secondary. The instruction SHOULD have specified to connect the red transformer wire to lug
3, as well as (blue) wire 71A. The red wire is the center tap of the transformer primary, and has to be connected to the B++ bus.
FYI, the other end of the blue wire (71B) should be connected to lug 2 of TS18, which is connected to the B++ bus via the other blue wire on lug 2.
It took a lot of digging to figure it all out, but I had some great help from Gary Harmon and Ashley Hall in the way of some helpful photos.
Now you have “the rest of the story”!
Mike, WB0LDJ
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On Apr 11, 2025, at 18:43, Donald Hellen <donhellen@...> wrote:
?On Sun, 06 Apr 2025 21:10:51 -0700, "Mike Harmon" <mharmon@...> wrote:
Considering that it is the last numbered wire in the harness, I wonder if it was put there for some purpose, and then never used, or maybe it was originally used for some purpose which was then deleted. Or maybe the drawing is a revised one and your model doesn't have the revision
installed?
Donald KX8K
----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP
|
Re: ef johnson scorpion vhf 5953a
Jesse . . . On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 20:44:11 -0700, "Jesse Rogers via groups.io" <jessadr1953@...> wrote: Any Info at all ? Is the radio intended for amateur radio? If not, since this group is for amateur radio, those who have this radio may not be members of this group. My guess is that you might be converting it for amateur radio use, maybe for the 900 MHz band (?), but again, the right audience may not be here for your question. I wish I could help but I'm more familiar with repairing older radio equipment and tube radios. You definitely won't get much help in the JohnsonRadios group on groups.io because their description says, "If it has Johnson on it, has tubes, then you are in the right group." I searched through all the publicly listed groups on groups.io for one that might be useful to you but all the others deal with the tube radios, families named Johnson, radios from Watkins Johnson (I assume it was either after a merger with EF Johnson and Watkins or they broke up the company and spun off EF Johnson), a Johnson HS PTA group, but nothing helpful along the lines of what you're in need of. If the programming software was protected under copyright, no one might reply if they did have it because of groups.io policies regarding that type of information. (They have even closed down groups that share copyrighted stationery, I assume for use in MS Outlook's email program.) All I can do is refer you to the company, which you probably already have: Also, if you plan to shift the covered frequencies up to the 900 MHz Amateur band, you may have to modify the passband filter (or low pass filter) to get much of a signal there. They probably have such in there to take care of spurious emissions from the transmitted signal. I hope you find what you're looking for. I think you will have to purchase the programming software from the company. I can tell you that RT Systems, which makes programming software for many amateur radios, does not have anything listed under Johnson or EF Johnson. Sincerely, Donald KX8K Group owner/moderator ---------------------------------------------------- Some ham radio groups you may be interested in: /g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng/g/CHIRP
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Re: Mystery Wire in Valiant Wiring Harness
On Sun, 06 Apr 2025 21:10:51 -0700, "Mike Harmon" <mharmon@...> wrote: Considering that it is the last numbered wire in the harness, I wonder if it was put there for some purpose, and then never used, or maybe it was originally used for some purpose which was then deleted. Or maybe the drawing is a revised one and your model doesn't have the revision installed? Donald KX8K ---------------------------------------------------- Some ham radio groups you may be interested in: /g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng/g/CHIRP
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FS: Viking 500 Beautiful Condition.? $3500 OBO local pickup in Westchester County, NY??????????? ? My loss is your gain… time to downsize.? It was completely restored about 10 years ago, including a beautiful refinish of both the RF and power supply cabinets.? Was fully operational until a few years ago when I moved the shack from CT to NY but has always been stored in a temperature and humidity-controlled family room/shack. Includes custom caster wheel dolly for power supply, all inter-connecting cables and manual. Also includes, heavy duty, custom Logo covers for both RF and PS cabinets.? Only known issue is the mode switch gets frozen in the AM position.? I have not powered this up in the past 2 years and it should be brought back to life slowly with a new alignment. Some pictures attached. ? Jerry NY2KW
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Re: Johnson knob pointer source
I've been using these for a few years.? They are a great replacement for the white pointers. Russ KW6T
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Re: Johnson knob pointer source
Thanks for the info – I just ordered 10 from Amazon !!
Mike /
K5MGR
_____________________________________ ? Mike Langner
929 Alameda Road NW
Albuquerque, NM 87114-1901
(505) 898-3212 home/home office
(505) 238-8810 cell
mlangner@...
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Floyd - K8AC via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EFJohnson-Amateur-Radio] Johnson knob pointer source? I recently purchased some Deutsch Sealing Plugs from Newark.com to use as pointers that were missing from knobs on my Ranger and Navigator transmitters.? I see that the plugs are now available from Amazon at a price of $6.12 for 10.? If you have Prime, shipping is free so the plugs cost you less than the shipping charge from Newark.? These plugs are a press fit into the holes in the knobs.? I cut them to length, file or sand off the rough edge from cutting and then press the cut end into the hole.? The end of the plugs come rounded off nicely and look good as the exposed pointer end.??
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Johnson knob pointer source
I recently purchased some Deutsch Sealing Plugs from Newark.com to use as pointers that were missing from knobs on my Ranger and Navigator transmitters.? I see that the plugs are now available from Amazon at a price of $6.12 for 10.? If you have Prime, shipping is free so the plugs cost you less than the shipping charge from Newark.? These plugs are a press fit into the holes in the knobs.? I cut them to length, file or sand off the rough edge from cutting and then press the cut end into the hole.? The end of the plugs come rounded off nicely and look good as the exposed pointer end.??
?
?
?
73, K8AC
?
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Floyd - K8AC
Russ Williams
Mike Langner