Re: My Lot 2 Lathe Identification photos etc
remains of original Japanning? ?that is an awesome lathe. ?Thanks
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I’ve previously shown photo(s) of my Lathe, just a general front view but I'm now loading 4 more detailed photos of my Lathe, one identifies my lathe as a Lot 2, Serial No 23 as shown on the end of Lathe Bed. The other photos are of the Lathe End Gears, the Back Gears and a general Rear view of the Lathe from the end of the Lathe Bed. Anyway as far as I can tell after slowly turning all the Gears by hand it appears that they are all in tact, with no chipped or broken teeth. As you can see the Lathe could do with cleaning up and painting to look in far more presentable state, what would you recommend for this (a cleaning aid to bring it back to look like new condition if possible).
<Lathe Identification Number.JPG><Lathe Back Gears.JPG><Lathe End Gears.JPG><Lathe Other End of Bed.JPG>
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My Lot 2 Lathe Identification photos etc
I’ve previously shown photo(s) of my Lathe, just a general front view but I'm now loading 4 more detailed photos of my Lathe, one identifies my lathe as a Lot 2, Serial No 23 as shown on the end of Lathe Bed. The other photos are of the Lathe End Gears, the Back Gears and a general Rear view of the Lathe from the end of the Lathe Bed. Anyway as far as I can tell after slowly turning all the Gears by hand it appears that they are all in tact, with no chipped or broken teeth. As you can see the Lathe could do with cleaning up and painting to look in far more presentable state, what would you recommend for this (a cleaning aid to bring it back to look like new condition if possible).
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I finally got around to getting the threading operation worked out on my Dalton Six. ?After the multiple idlers specified on the charts for the Atlas changegear lathes, I couldn't imagine the Dalton would be so simple, but it was! ?One slot on the banjo instead of two. ?Any gear that fits between the Stud and the Screw Gears seems to work fine.
I put a drill shank in the Thread Dial you sold me, turned the gear until it dropped in, swung it to the lead screw, pulled the shank out, and the threads went like a breeze. I was surprised at how deep a pass I could make on that little lathe; very rigid compared to the Atlas.
Thanks again!
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Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
Hi Dennis, I am able to machine some things here. we are in our busy season now so i havent had many chances to work on the dalton but it is in assembly stage just going a little slower now
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Glen I have several Dalton spindles on the shelf but the last
Dalton Lot 5 I did as well as the peddle Dalton have almost new spindles in
them as the? lathes were basically new.? Dalton spindles are soft and tend to
wear quickly.? So making a back plate for a fresh spindle they would fit almost
any spindle out there I would think.? Dennis
?
From:
DaltonLathes@groups.io [mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Glen
Linscheid
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2022 6:11 PM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Chuck options
?
I bought a two 5" back plates for the Select recently,
both were Myford, and for the very planning you had, a single pass bores the
old threads out and one small finishing pass brings them to the 1 1/4"
pre-thread bore.
?I also did something I'd never done before, I made a test spud with both the
register diameter on one end and the spindles threads, using a thread mic to a
very close fit, on the other end. This was used when creeping up on both in the
back plates, they are without a doubt the best fitting back plates I've ever
made.
?Both the 4 jaw and the 3 jaw were extremely cheap.
?To turn the 3J plate into a "Adjust-Tru" type I expanded on an
idea I saw on youtube, a guy made the register of a purchased "made to
fit" back plate another 3/8" longer and threw away the dust cover
inside so it would fit.
?That gave him lots of room to have the four 3/8 adjusting setscrews
something to push against, as the register on the original was only 1/8"
or less.
?I knew what he didn't seem to be worried about, that without the dust
cover the pinion gears and the crown gear at the back of the scroll would get
plugged with swarf quickly! So I re machined the dust cover to leave it in
place with a much smaller diameter, which left lots of depth outside of that in
the chucks back recces.
?Then I trepanned a recces and made a lug ring to replace the register,
1/16" deep but leaving 3/8" sticking out for the setscrews to push
against.
?This ring was a light press fit into the face of the backplate and is
held in place with 4 flathead socket screws from the back.
?Not difficult? to do but very effective!
?The OD of the of the ring I then turned down .015" smaller than the
original register so the chuck could be adjusted. Also, the front of the ring
almost touches the back of that dust cover, so no swarf can get in to the
gears.
?But, (Back to the Dalton back plates) you have said in the past that
Dalton threads varied in pitch diameter, maybe as taps wore? Anyway, that could
make problems, right?
?Can you take a thread mic to a bunch of Dalton spindles and see how much
they vary, that and the spindle's register? I'd like to have a drawing if
possible, the spindles themselves would be better.
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I bought a two 5" back plates for the Select recently, both were Myford, and for the very planning you had, a single pass bores the old threads out and one small finishing pass brings them to the 1 1/4" pre-thread bore.
?I also did something I'd never done before, I made a test spud with both the register diameter on one end and the spindles threads, using a thread mic to a very close fit, on the other end. This was used when creeping up on both in the back plates, they are without a doubt the best fitting back plates I've ever made.
?Both the 4 jaw and the 3 jaw were extremely cheap.
?To turn the 3J plate into a "Adjust-Tru" type I expanded on an idea I saw on youtube, a guy made the register of a purchased "made to fit" back plate another 3/8" longer and threw away the dust cover inside so it would fit.
?That gave him lots of room to have the four 3/8 adjusting setscrews something to push against, as the register on the original was only 1/8" or less.
?I knew what he didn't seem to be worried about, that without the dust cover the pinion gears and the crown gear at the back of the scroll would get plugged with swarf quickly! So I re machined the dust cover to leave it in place with a much smaller diameter, which left lots of depth outside of that in the chucks back recces.
?Then I trepanned a recces and made a lug ring to replace the register, 1/16" deep but leaving 3/8" sticking out for the setscrews to push against.
?This ring was a light press fit into the face of the backplate and is held in place with 4 flathead socket screws from the back.
?Not difficult? to do but very effective!
?The OD of the of the ring I then turned down .015" smaller than the original register so the chuck could be adjusted. Also, the front of the ring almost touches the back of that dust cover, so no swarf can get in to the gears.
?But, (Back to the Dalton back plates) you have said in the past that Dalton threads varied in pitch diameter, maybe as taps wore? Anyway, that could make problems, right?
?Can you take a thread mic to a bunch of Dalton spindles and see how much they vary, that and the spindle's register? I'd like to have a drawing if possible, the spindles themselves would be better.
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Hi Glen???
?
Say I have an idea that you and I could help these guys with
back plates.? I did some looking last night and there are some very good
examples of back plates for up to 5 inch chucks on eBay for cheap.? These then
need to be bored and threaded.? Was wondering if I provide you with an almost new
Dalton spindle used on the Lot 3 4 and 5 lathes do you think you on your CNC
lathe could finish the thread and register counter bore for a reasonable price.?
I would provide the back plate blanks.? These back plates that are available
are almost cheaper than purchasing a chunk of cast iron to make them from.? I
can do it on my Hardinge HLV-H but like you my back is just not letting me
stand at a lathe any longer. ?I was thinking of maybe picking up six to eight
of these back plates for? the guys.?
?
Also there are a number of decent looking 4 inch 3 jaw chucks
for sale on eBay for not a lot of money.? Looks like you can pick up a 4 inch
for under $75 bucks with shipping.?? It’s funny Glen but the Myford lathes use
a chuck that has a 1 1/8 – 12 spindle thread.? Was thinking they would be also
easy to enlarge to Dalton size by picking up the thread.? You and I have done
that before I know.? It’s to bad they are so expensive.? ?Was just a thought
when I seen them for sale on eBay.?
?
On a side note Glen seeing as my email service will not let you
send me an email I have been working in the shop at Florence updating Inverter
control stations.? I put a push button control station with speed control pot
on the little Rockwell mill and now I am doing it to the little Dunlop drill
press.? May put one on the Rockwell drill press as well as we are using a Teco
inverter on it.? I even have that little Lip French made surface grinder down
at Florence now and we run that with a Teco inverter.? I think we have seven
machines now running on three phase inverters at the Florence shop.? Dennis
?
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From: DaltonLathes@groups.io
[mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Glen Linscheid
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2022 12:10 AM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Chuck options
?
?As for high quality Vertex from Taiwan is very good
for the money. Another is Gator, also Taiwan I believe. If you have the money a
Bison chuck is good unless you believe the complaints people in PM have claimed
against them in the last few years, I bought one for a new-to-me Nardini 1540
and have no complaints but they are spendy.
?There are a few tricks to make even a cheaper chuck
run much better than out of the box, turning a 3 jaw type into a well designed
Adjust Tru type, I just did that to a Sanyu chuck for my little Select lathe.
?I used to think that a 4 jaw would always run true, as
true as the operator can dial it in, but that's not correct, because it can be
dead on close to the chuck and running out .015" 3" farther
out!? If you know how you can scrape the back o.f the chuck where it bolts
to the backing plate and get that wobble out.
?
Hi
Ryan
?
Is?
your current chuck a direct mount or does it have a mounting back plate??
Also the standard size three jaw chuck for a Lot 3 4 and 5 was four
inches.? The standard offered 4 jaw was a five inch.? There are a
number of fairly good quality 4 inch three jaw chucks available on a number of
eBay sites.? As to new mounting back plates there are none to be had so
you have to make them.? I have made new back plates for a Dalton? Lot
3 4 and 5 using a 1 inch 10 back plate meant for a small Atlas or Craftsman lathe.?
These usually have sufficient material around the spindle thread that allow you
to open them up to Dalton size of 1 ? - 12.
?
Dennis
?
?
Hello,
guys. I am reaching out to see if anyone has managed to come up with a good
solution for replacing the chuck on their Dalton Lot 5. The chuck that came
with my lathe was in pretty?bad shape and really seems to be where a lot
of my eccentricity is coming from. Is there a modern option that I could throw
money at to bring things up to modern accuracy standards? Any tips or
techniques for truing the original one? I don't see any sort of truing
options.?
|
?As for high quality Vertex from Taiwan is very good for the money. Another is Gator, also Taiwan I believe. If you have the money a Bison chuck is good unless you believe the complaints people in PM have claimed against them in the last few years, I bought one for a new-to-me Nardini 1540 and have no complaints but they are spendy. ?There are a few tricks to make even a cheaper chuck run much better than out of the box, turning a 3 jaw type into a well designed Adjust Tru type, I just did that to a Sanyu chuck for my little Select lathe.
?I used to think that a 4 jaw would always run true, as true as the operator can dial it in, but that's not correct, because it can be dead on close to the chuck and running out .015" 3" farther out!? If you know how you can scrape the back o.f the chuck where it bolts to the backing plate and get that wobble out.
Hi Ryan
?
Is? your current chuck a direct mount or does it have a mounting
back plate?? Also the standard size three jaw chuck for a Lot 3 4 and 5 was
four inches.? The standard offered 4 jaw was a five inch.? There are a number
of fairly good quality 4 inch three jaw chucks available on a number of eBay
sites.? As to new mounting back plates there are none to be had so you have to
make them.? I have made new back plates for a Dalton? Lot 3 4 and 5 using a 1
inch 10 back plate meant for a small Atlas or Craftsman lathe.? These usually
have sufficient material around the spindle thread that allow you to open them
up to Dalton size of 1 ? - 12.
?
Dennis
?
?
Hello, guys. I am reaching out to see if anyone has managed
to come up with a good solution for replacing the chuck on their Dalton Lot 5.
The chuck that came with my lathe was in pretty?bad shape and really seems
to be where a lot of my eccentricity is coming from. Is there a modern option
that I could throw money at to bring things up to modern accuracy standards?
Any tips or techniques for truing the original one? I don't see any sort of
truing options.?
|
Here is a drawing we did a few years ago.? This shows what a six
inch back plate looks like.? It can be made any outside diameter to fit whatever
size chuck its being made for.???? Dennis
?
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From: DaltonLathes@groups.io
[mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ryan Bardsley
Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2022 5:52 PM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Chuck options
?
Yes, mine came with a 4” 3-jaw direct mount chuck. Any suggestions
on how to make the adapter plate? I don’t have a mill and my other lathes are
all watchmaker-sized. :)
Any drawings for such a thing? Having a hard time
envisioning it until I have the new chuck in hand. I love this lathe, but I use
it all the time and would prefer to bring it up to date where it makes
sense.?
?
On Mar 5, 2022, at 6:55 PM,
Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
?
Hi Ryan
?
Is? your current chuck a direct mount or does it have a
mounting back plate?? Also the standard size three jaw chuck for a Lot 3 4
and 5 was four inches.? The standard offered 4 jaw was a five inch.?
There are a number of fairly good quality 4 inch three jaw chucks available on
a number of eBay sites.? As to new mounting back plates there are none to
be had so you have to make them.? I have made new back plates for a
Dalton? Lot 3 4 and 5 using a 1 inch 10 back plate meant for a small Atlas
or Craftsman lathe. ?These usually have sufficient material around the
spindle thread that allow you to open them up to Dalton size of 1 ? - 12.
?
Dennis
?
From:
DaltonLathes@groups.io [mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ryan
Bardsley
Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2022 3:26 PM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: [DaltonLathes] Chuck options
?
Hello, guys. I am reaching out to see if anyone has managed
to come up with a good solution for replacing the chuck on their Dalton Lot 5.
The chuck that came with my lathe was in pretty?bad shape and really seems
to be where a lot of my eccentricity is coming from. Is there a modern option
that I could throw money at to bring things up to modern accuracy standards?
Any tips or techniques for truing the original one? I don't see any sort of
truing options.?
|
Yes, mine came with a 4” 3-jaw direct mount chuck. Any suggestions on how to make the adapter plate? I don’t have a mill and my other lathes are all watchmaker-sized. :)
Any drawings for such a thing? Having a hard time envisioning it until I have the new chuck in hand. I love this lathe, but I use it all the time and would prefer to bring it up to date where it makes sense.?
Thanks!
Ryan
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On Mar 5, 2022, at 6:55 PM, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
?
Hi Ryan
?
Is? your current chuck a direct mount or does it have a mounting
back plate?? Also the standard size three jaw chuck for a Lot 3 4 and 5 was
four inches.? The standard offered 4 jaw was a five inch.? There are a number
of fairly good quality 4 inch three jaw chucks available on a number of eBay
sites.? As to new mounting back plates there are none to be had so you have to
make them.? I have made new back plates for a Dalton? Lot 3 4 and 5 using a 1
inch 10 back plate meant for a small Atlas or Craftsman lathe. ?These usually
have sufficient material around the spindle thread that allow you to open them
up to Dalton size of 1 ? - 12.
?
Dennis
?
From: DaltonLathes@groups.io
[mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ryan Bardsley
Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2022 3:26 PM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: [DaltonLathes] Chuck options
?
Hello, guys. I am reaching out to see if anyone has managed
to come up with a good solution for replacing the chuck on their Dalton Lot 5.
The chuck that came with my lathe was in pretty?bad shape and really seems
to be where a lot of my eccentricity is coming from. Is there a modern option
that I could throw money at to bring things up to modern accuracy standards?
Any tips or techniques for truing the original one? I don't see any sort of
truing options.?
|
Hi Ryan
?
Is? your current chuck a direct mount or does it have a mounting
back plate?? Also the standard size three jaw chuck for a Lot 3 4 and 5 was
four inches.? The standard offered 4 jaw was a five inch.? There are a number
of fairly good quality 4 inch three jaw chucks available on a number of eBay
sites.? As to new mounting back plates there are none to be had so you have to
make them.? I have made new back plates for a Dalton? Lot 3 4 and 5 using a 1
inch 10 back plate meant for a small Atlas or Craftsman lathe. ?These usually
have sufficient material around the spindle thread that allow you to open them
up to Dalton size of 1 ? - 12.
?
Dennis
?
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From: DaltonLathes@groups.io
[mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ryan Bardsley
Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2022 3:26 PM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: [DaltonLathes] Chuck options
?
Hello, guys. I am reaching out to see if anyone has managed
to come up with a good solution for replacing the chuck on their Dalton Lot 5.
The chuck that came with my lathe was in pretty?bad shape and really seems
to be where a lot of my eccentricity is coming from. Is there a modern option
that I could throw money at to bring things up to modern accuracy standards?
Any tips or techniques for truing the original one? I don't see any sort of
truing options.?
|
Hello, guys. I am reaching out to see if anyone has managed to come up with a good solution for replacing the chuck on their Dalton Lot 5. The chuck that came with my lathe was in pretty?bad shape and really seems to be where a lot of my eccentricity is coming from. Is there a modern option that I could throw money at to bring things up to modern accuracy standards? Any tips or techniques for truing the original one? I don't see any sort of truing options.?
Many thanks!
Ryan Manchester, MA
|
Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
Ha I figured that’s what you didJ? I have gears but
they will have the larger bore.? Gareth use a mic and measure the spindles that
the gears rotate on.? That is what we have to fit to. I may have you send the
spindles down to me so I can fit gears.? Should ask do you have access to
another lathe you can use for repair work?
?
Dennis
?
?
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From: DaltonLathes@groups.io
[mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of gmciver@...
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:34 AM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Confirming this is a Dalton
?
My mistake you are correct it’s actually measures 2” with a
0.376 bore, still 0.5” thick, I got my gears notes mixed up.
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Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
My mistake you are correct it’s actually measures 2” with a 0.376 bore, still 0.5” thick, I got my gears notes mixed up.
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Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
Hi Gareth
?
I’m a bit puzzled at your gear size.? Even a 12 pitch gear of 30
teeth is not as big as your saying yours is.? Are you sure it 3.63 OD that’s a
hug gear for a tumbler gear.?? Dennis
?
From:
DaltonLathes@groups.io [mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of gmciver@...
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 5:13 AM
To: DaltonLathes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Confirming this is a Dalton
?
Hi Dennis, I hadn't had a chance to get to the shop for a
while but I got some measurements the tumbler gears are 0.5" thick
3.63" OD, 0.65" bore and 30 teeth. still in the process of stripping
paint and painting but reassembly is not to far off, I'm sure I will notice
some other things along the way
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Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
Hi Dennis, I hadn't had a chance to get to the shop for a while but I got some measurements the tumbler gears are 0.5" thick 3.63" OD, 0.65" bore and 30 teeth. still in the process of stripping paint and painting but reassembly is not to far off, I'm sure I will notice some other things along the way
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Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
That is really weird Gerath I have never seen a forward reveres shifter gear with broken teeth. Worn yes but never broken.? It’s a classic repair Gerath seen it on back gears a lot of times.? OK need to know all the dimensions on the gear.? Number of teeth OD thickness and the center bore and counterbore if it has one.? We will have to make up some gears.? We can get spur gears from Boston or Browning and then machine them to what you need.? Done this many times.? Think I? have a shifter with gears to a Dalton 9 will have to look when I get back home.? We might just get lucky and they will be the same size you need.? In the past when I repaired these shifter gears or tumbler gears as some call them I modify the spindle and then install sealed roller bearings in the gear. Will see what I have on hand for material to make a gib for you when I get back home.? I am down at a little place I have on the Oregon coast.? I? have a little machine shop here also and I have been doing some control upgrades on a couple of machines that we run with variable frequency inverters.? Making control stations for them and wiring them in as well as re-programing the inverter to run from a remote control setup.? ?Dennis ? Sent from for Windows ?
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From: gmciver@...Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 4:37 AM To: DaltonLathes@groups.ioSubject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Confirming this is a Dalton ? I measured the gib again it appears to be 65 degrees and 0.156” thick. I attached a picture of an interesting gear repair as well. Still working through painting parts. I do have one back plate luckily. Hopefully we can track down some compound measurements?
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Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
I measured the gib again it appears to be 65 degrees and 0.156” thick. I attached a picture of an interesting gear repair as well. Still working through painting parts. I do have one back plate luckily. Hopefully we can track down some compound measurements?
|
Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
Hi Gareth.? OK the spindle nose is the same as the Lot 6 and Dalton 9 inch.? If you need a back plate I have one I think.? As to the gib can you give me the angle on the edge of the gib.? Also what is the thickness.?? The 72 tooth was usually used as an idler gear on the gear bracket that we down here in the US call the banjo.? The 56 is one of the standard threading change gears.? Also I see at least one of the gears is a Boston gear and Boston still makes change gears as dose Browning.? I sure whish Mitch would chime in so we could get some info from his lathe as he has the only one with a original compound slide. As to you mystery parts I don’t recognize them either. Dennis ? Sent from for Windows ?
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From: gmciver@...Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2022 1:02 PM To: DaltonLathes@groups.ioSubject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Confirming this is a Dalton ? Hi Dennis, I did some measuring the spindle is 1-7/8” and the lead screw is 1” with 8 threads per inch. The gib is 0.525” wide and 6-7/8” long. I would be interested in having an original style compound made if possible but also if that’s not possible I would like to make it work however that may be. There was only two change gears a 56 tooth and a 72 tooth I forgot to measure the width and bore though. There are a couple of parts that came in a box that I’m not sure if they belong to the lathe or not, they don’t seem familiar. Attached some pictures of the lead screw with gears and a picture of the mystery parts?
thanks
Gareth?
|
Re: Confirming this is a Dalton
Hi Dennis, I did some measuring the spindle is 1-7/8” and the lead screw is 1” with 8 threads per inch. The gib is 0.525” wide and 6-7/8” long. I would be interested in having an original style compound made if possible but also if that’s not possible I would like to make it work however that may be. There was only two change gears a 56 tooth and a 72 tooth I forgot to measure the width and bore though. There are a couple of parts that came in a box that I’m not sure if they belong to the lathe or not, they don’t seem familiar. Attached some pictures of the lead screw with gears and a picture of the mystery parts?
thanks
Gareth?
|
Bryan Alton
Dennis Turk
