Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
I don't know if anyone has responded
yet but I'll offer a couple of suggestions.
I've been watching a good many brazing
videos lately since I'll have to braze the belt guards for my
Dalton lathe and a steady rest for my Clausing 111.? An
accomplished welder could braze but it must be held in perfect
alignment.? You would need to touch up the diameter on a lathe and
repair the keyway.? Brazing results in a remarkably strong bond.
Another option is to face off the
broken stud to square the end.? Find a Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolt
with the thread you need, cut it to length (both ends) for a new
stud, cut a keyway on the new stud and press (slight interference
fit) fit it into the hole you drilled on the end of the screw
shaft.? You would have to cross drill the shaft/stud for a taper
pin to secure it permanently.
I'm sure you could find a replacement
part but you would likely have to buy the complete tail-stock.
There are more experienced people than
I on this forum; perhaps they will weigh in with a better idea.
Regards,
Peter
On 3/3/25 6:08 PM, Aaron Nedd via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20
years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but
today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the
tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I
guess it was just its time. ?The screw that drives
the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there
was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime
and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
The hole on top of your tail stock is a reservoir?for white lead.? White lead was used as a lubricant for dead centers.? The pin you show does not make any sense as the dobber that was in the hole from the factory was made of brass. Dobber was used to apply the lube on the end of the dead center. Dennis
That is a tool for greasing a dead center.
From: "Rick Clayton via " <rjc112979= [email protected]> To: "DaltonLathes" < [email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2025 6:21:07 PM Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
Hey Dennis I was just looking at the tailstock on my 9 inch dalton and I noticed it had a removable plug on it out of all the daltons I have or seen this is the only one I have.   On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 1:12 PM, Dennis Turk via OK you can repair the screw.? You need to make a replacement end to replace the broken one.? By facing off the broken part of the screw up to the larger diameter that passes through the screw in end of the tail stock.? Make a new part with a spud on it to go inside the hole you have created?in the acme thread screw.? Not sure this is all that clear but I have repaired?any number of broken or damaged lead screws this way.? ? You might be able to use a bolt to make this part so you don't?even have to cut threads.? ?You can use bushing lock locktight?and a small cross pin to secure your replacement?part.?? I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time.? The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
That is a tool for greasing a dead center.
From: "Rick Clayton via groups.io" <rjc112979@...> To: "DaltonLathes" < [email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2025 6:21:07 PM Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
Hey Dennis I was just looking at the tailstock on my 9 inch dalton and I noticed it had a removable plug on it out of all the daltons I have or seen this is the only one I have.   On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 1:12 PM, Dennis Turk via groups.io <dennisturk448@...> wrote: OK you can repair the screw.? You need to make a replacement end to replace the broken one.? By facing off the broken part of the screw up to the larger diameter that passes through the screw in end of the tail stock.? Make a new part with a spud on it to go inside the hole you have created?in the acme thread screw.? Not sure this is all that clear but I have repaired?any number of broken or damaged lead screws this way.? ? You might be able to use a bolt to make this part so you don't?even have to cut threads.? ?You can use bushing lock locktight?and a small cross pin to secure your replacement?part.?? I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time. ?The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
Hey Dennis I was just looking at the tailstock on my 9 inch dalton and I noticed it had a removable plug on it out of all the daltons I have or seen this is the only one I have.
On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 1:12 PM, Dennis Turk via groups.io <dennisturk448@...> wrote: OK you can repair the screw.? You need to make a replacement end to replace the broken one.? By facing off the broken part of the screw up to the larger diameter that passes through the screw in end of the tail stock.? Make a new part with a spud on it to go inside the hole you have created?in the acme thread screw.? Not sure this is all that clear but I have repaired?any number of broken or damaged lead screws this way.? ? You might be able to use a bolt to make this part so you don't?even have to cut threads.? ?You can use bushing lock locktight?and a small cross pin to secure your replacement?part.?? I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time. ?The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
OK you can repair the screw.? You need to make a replacement end to replace the broken one.? By facing off the broken part of the screw up to the larger diameter that passes through the screw in end of the tail stock.? Make a new part with a spud on it to go inside the hole you have created?in the acme thread screw.? Not sure this is all that clear but I have repaired?any number of broken or damaged lead screws this way.? ? You might be able to use a bolt to make this part so you don't?even have to cut threads.? ?You can use bushing lock locktight?and a small cross pin to secure your replacement?part.??
I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time. ?The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
Jerry,
This sounds like good advice. I’m not really a machinist and really use this lathe for random repair projects.? What you are suggesting to occur to me, but is really beyond my skills. I’m more of a woodworker and a welder primarily. I was making a replacement collar out of aluminum for the guard on a jointer. I’m restoring when it broke. I’m going to see what I can find locally, but if nothing else, I’m willing to take a chance of mailing parts to Canada.I’m going to shake the tree and see what falls out. Thank you for the advice and I appreciate it!?
Hi Aaron,
? ? An easy fix would be to drill that broken end of the shaft out, tap it, and screw in another threaded piece with an oversize diameter, with threadlocker. After that cross drill and ream it, and press in a pin to lock it securely. Then the new piece can be turned, threaded, and the? keyway cut. I would do it, but I'm located in Canada, and the shipping might be problematic during these times.
? ? ?Jerry
I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time.? The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
Hi Aaron,
? ? An easy fix would be to drill that broken end of the shaft out, tap it, and screw in another threaded piece with an oversize diameter, with threadlocker. After that cross drill and ream it, and press in a pin to lock it securely. Then the new piece can be turned, threaded, and the? keyway cut. I would do it, but I'm located in Canada, and the shipping might be problematic during these times.
? ? ?Jerry
From: "Aaron Nedd via groups.io" <aaron.nedd@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Monday, March 3, 2025 6:08:24 PM Subject: [DaltonLathes] Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time. ?The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Lot 4 tailstock screw broken
I’ve owned this Dalton six b-4 lot 5 s/n 294 for almost 20 years. I’ve always used it gently knowing how old it is, but today its age finally caught up to me. The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken off drilling a 1/4 inch hole. I guess it was just its time. ?The screw that drives the tail stock in and out broken in half. I’m assuming there was a crack from the keyway that slowly got larger overtime and it finally bit the dust today.
?
|
Re: Drawbar Question - too short
After reading your experience with
abused SB draw bars I measured this one again, at the open end and
again at the inside end of the threads.? It's bell-mouthed.?
Thanks for the tip.
Peter
On 3/1/25 5:30 PM, pling via groups.io
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for all the information.? The
odd thing about my collets is that they seem to be .004 - .005
undersized from the advertised dimensions for thread diameter
and shaft diameter.? That said, I don't see how that could
account for the complete lack of thread engagement.? I'll try to
send it back.
Thanks again,
Peter
On 3/1/25 2:48 PM, Dennis Turk via
groups.io wrote:
One other thing I forgot.? The end gear on the
end of the spindle is also special as it has an extended
sleeve that supports the lever operated closer to the end of
the spindle.? The lathe in the picture was originally a pedal
powered lathe that I found in California.? It was missing many
things including the pedal setup as well as the tail stock?and
compound slide.? What remained was in almost like all new
condition and as I had the missing parts I was able to
complete the lathe.? I also used a cast iron pedestal?for
mounting it as it originally?had a Lot 6 lathe secured to it.
The chip tray is original to the pedal?lathe. The last picture
is of how the lathe was displayed at my business building
along with 29 other restored lathes, shapers and drill
presses. After selling my business in ;2019 all these display
machines had to be removed and most of them are now in storage
at my home.? Anybody need a lathe got lots of them:-))))
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at
11:40?AM Dennis Turk via <dennisturk448= [email protected]>
wrote:
Some additional information.? A lever
operated collet closer had to be ordered when purchasing a
Dalton lathe.? The casting that supports the end door
hinge for a lever operated collet closer lathe is totally
different that what most have.? The casting has to support
the end of the lever collet handle.? Also the casting that
covers?to pupper part of the spindle?is also special to a
lever operated collet closer as it has to have the two
pins that support?the tilt up collet closer guard.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at
11:35?AM Dennis Turk via
<dennisturk448= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Peter
I have Dalton as well as SB and Hardinge 3C
collets.? They only vary a couple of thousands?in
outside?thread diameter but that is not the critical
dimension.? The?pitch diameter?of the thread? is
what counts, not the outside diameter.? If your
collets slide in and out of the threaded end of the
draw tube this is very odd.? It may indicate that
the thread in the draw tube is totally?worn out as I
have seen this on a couple of SB draw tubes.?
Especially?on the lever operated collet closer as
they can exert way more force than a hand wheel draw
bar. As to lever operated Dalton draw bar setups
they are very rare.? I have one for a Lot 6 and
Dalton 9 inch but do not have one for the smaller
lathe.? I only know of one that is owned by a guy
near Chicago and he loaned it to me when we
exhibited?at the NAMEs model engineering show in
2016.? Ralph also has many other Dalton accessories
we only see in catalogs. Pictures attached were
taken when Ralph loans?me his lever operated collet
closer.? Just some information guys.
Well...
I've got a problem.? I ordered a 3C Collet Draw Bar
from Ebay
that is a bit longer than the Dalton draw bar I
have.? I chose to do
this because I didn't want to butcher the Dalton
draw bar for more
extension.
I received the draw bar but when I went to screw in
the Dalton collet it
just slid right in. No thread engagement at all.? I
looked up 3C collet
dimensions and as you would expect there are more
than one dimension
documents that don't appear to match.
South Bend collet dimensions for a #3 collet which
is claimed to be
compatible with 3-C collets shows an overall length
of 2 7/16 which
matches my Dalton collet.? The diameter of the
collet shaft is .6495 on
the chart and my Dalton collet diameter is .645, a
difference of .0045.?
The thread length on the chart for a 3-C is .750 and
the Dalton collet
thread length is .600.? The thread diameter on the
South Bend chart is
.642 which is very close to the Dalton collet thread
diameter.
The inside diameter of the draw bar where threaded
is .654 which allows
my Dalton collets to slide in and out.
Before I ask to return this draw bar I want to make
sure that it is not
3-C as advertised.? I can't find a thread diameter
on the SB chart that
matches it so it may be a metric draw bar.
I was under the impression that 3-C was a hard
standard but if mistaken
please set me straight.
I want to make sure that I am correct before I ask
to a return the draw bar.
Thanks,
Peter
|
Re: Drawbar Question - too short
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for all the information.? The
odd thing about my collets is that they seem to be .004 - .005
undersized from the advertised dimensions for thread diameter and
shaft diameter.? That said, I don't see how that could account for
the complete lack of thread engagement.? I'll try to send it back.
Thanks again,
Peter
On 3/1/25 2:48 PM, Dennis Turk via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
One other thing I forgot.? The end gear on the end
of the spindle is also special as it has an extended sleeve that
supports the lever operated closer to the end of the spindle.?
The lathe in the picture was originally a pedal powered lathe
that I found in California.? It was missing many things
including the pedal setup as well as the tail stock?and compound
slide.? What remained was in almost like all new condition and
as I had the missing parts I was able to complete the lathe.? I
also used a cast iron pedestal?for mounting it as it
originally?had a Lot 6 lathe secured to it. The chip tray is
original to the pedal?lathe. The last picture is of how the
lathe was displayed at my business building along with 29 other
restored lathes, shapers and drill presses. After selling my
business in ;2019 all these display machines had to be removed
and most of them are now in storage at my home.? Anybody need a
lathe got lots of them:-))))
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at
11:40?AM Dennis Turk via <dennisturk448= [email protected]>
wrote:
Some additional information.? A lever operated
collet closer had to be ordered when purchasing a Dalton
lathe.? The casting that supports the end door hinge for a
lever operated collet closer lathe is totally different that
what most have.? The casting has to support the end of the
lever collet handle.? Also the casting that covers?to pupper
part of the spindle?is also special to a lever operated
collet closer as it has to have the two pins that
support?the tilt up collet closer guard.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at
11:35?AM Dennis Turk via
<dennisturk448= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Peter
I have Dalton as well as SB and Hardinge 3C
collets.? They only vary a couple of thousands?in
outside?thread diameter but that is not the critical
dimension.? The?pitch diameter?of the thread? is what
counts, not the outside diameter.? If your collets
slide in and out of the threaded end of the draw tube
this is very odd.? It may indicate that the thread in
the draw tube is totally?worn out as I have seen this
on a couple of SB draw tubes.? Especially?on the lever
operated collet closer as they can exert way more
force than a hand wheel draw bar. As to lever operated
Dalton draw bar setups they are very rare.? I have one
for a Lot 6 and Dalton 9 inch but do not have one for
the smaller lathe.? I only know of one that is owned
by a guy near Chicago and he loaned it to me when we
exhibited?at the NAMEs model engineering show in
2016.? Ralph also has many other Dalton accessories we
only see in catalogs. Pictures attached were taken
when Ralph loans?me his lever operated collet closer.?
Just some information guys.
Well...
I've got a problem.? I ordered a 3C Collet Draw Bar
from Ebay
that is a bit longer than the Dalton draw bar I have.?
I chose to do
this because I didn't want to butcher the Dalton draw
bar for more
extension.
I received the draw bar but when I went to screw in
the Dalton collet it
just slid right in. No thread engagement at all.? I
looked up 3C collet
dimensions and as you would expect there are more than
one dimension
documents that don't appear to match.
South Bend collet dimensions for a #3 collet which is
claimed to be
compatible with 3-C collets shows an overall length of
2 7/16 which
matches my Dalton collet.? The diameter of the collet
shaft is .6495 on
the chart and my Dalton collet diameter is .645, a
difference of .0045.?
The thread length on the chart for a 3-C is .750 and
the Dalton collet
thread length is .600.? The thread diameter on the
South Bend chart is
.642 which is very close to the Dalton collet thread
diameter.
The inside diameter of the draw bar where threaded is
.654 which allows
my Dalton collets to slide in and out.
Before I ask to return this draw bar I want to make
sure that it is not
3-C as advertised.? I can't find a thread diameter on
the SB chart that
matches it so it may be a metric draw bar.
I was under the impression that 3-C was a hard
standard but if mistaken
please set me straight.
I want to make sure that I am correct before I ask to
a return the draw bar.
Thanks,
Peter
|
Re: Drawbar Question - too short
One other thing I forgot.? The end gear on the end of the spindle is also special as it has an extended sleeve that supports the lever operated closer to the end of the spindle.? The lathe in the picture was originally a pedal powered lathe that I found in California.? It was missing many things including the pedal setup as well as the tail stock?and compound slide.? What remained was in almost like all new condition and as I had the missing parts I was able to complete the lathe.? I also used a cast iron pedestal?for mounting it as it originally?had a Lot 6 lathe secured to it. The chip tray is original to the pedal?lathe. The last picture is of how the lathe was displayed at my business building along with 29 other restored lathes, shapers and drill presses. After selling my business in ;2019 all these display machines had to be removed and most of them are now in storage at my home.? Anybody need a lathe got lots of them:-))))
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 11:40?AM Dennis Turk via <dennisturk448= [email protected]> wrote: Some additional information.? A lever operated collet closer had to be ordered when purchasing a Dalton lathe.? The casting that supports the end door hinge for a lever operated collet closer lathe is totally different that what most have.? The casting has to support the end of the lever collet handle.? Also the casting that covers?to pupper part of the spindle?is also special to a lever operated collet closer as it has to have the two pins that support?the tilt up collet closer guard.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 11:35?AM Dennis Turk via <dennisturk448= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Peter I have Dalton as well as SB and Hardinge 3C collets.? They only vary a couple of thousands?in outside?thread diameter but that is not the critical dimension.? The?pitch diameter?of the thread? is what counts, not the outside diameter.? If your collets slide in and out of the threaded end of the draw tube this is very odd.? It may indicate that the thread in the draw tube is totally?worn out as I have seen this on a couple of SB draw tubes.? Especially?on the lever operated collet closer as they can exert way more force than a hand wheel draw bar. As to lever operated Dalton draw bar setups they are very rare.? I have one for a Lot 6 and Dalton 9 inch but do not have one for the smaller lathe.? I only know of one that is owned by a guy near Chicago and he loaned it to me when we exhibited?at the NAMEs model engineering show in 2016.? Ralph also has many other Dalton accessories we only see in catalogs. Pictures attached were taken when Ralph loans?me his lever operated collet closer.? Just some information guys.
Well... I've got a problem.? I ordered a 3C Collet Draw Bar from Ebay
that is a bit longer than the Dalton draw bar I have.? I chose to do
this because I didn't want to butcher the Dalton draw bar for more
extension.
I received the draw bar but when I went to screw in the Dalton collet it
just slid right in. No thread engagement at all.? I looked up 3C collet
dimensions and as you would expect there are more than one dimension
documents that don't appear to match.
South Bend collet dimensions for a #3 collet which is claimed to be
compatible with 3-C collets shows an overall length of 2 7/16 which
matches my Dalton collet.? The diameter of the collet shaft is .6495 on
the chart and my Dalton collet diameter is .645, a difference of .0045.?
The thread length on the chart for a 3-C is .750 and the Dalton collet
thread length is .600.? The thread diameter on the South Bend chart is
.642 which is very close to the Dalton collet thread diameter.
The inside diameter of the draw bar where threaded is .654 which allows
my Dalton collets to slide in and out.
Before I ask to return this draw bar I want to make sure that it is not
3-C as advertised.? I can't find a thread diameter on the SB chart that
matches it so it may be a metric draw bar.
I was under the impression that 3-C was a hard standard but if mistaken
please set me straight.
I want to make sure that I am correct before I ask to a return the draw bar.
Thanks,
Peter
|
Re: Drawbar Question - too short
Some additional information.? A lever operated collet closer had to be ordered when purchasing a Dalton lathe.? The casting that supports the end door hinge for a lever operated collet closer lathe is totally different that what most have.? The casting has to support the end of the lever collet handle.? Also the casting that covers?to pupper part of the spindle?is also special to a lever operated collet closer as it has to have the two pins that support?the tilt up collet closer guard.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 11:35?AM Dennis Turk via <dennisturk448= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Peter I have Dalton as well as SB and Hardinge 3C collets.? They only vary a couple of thousands?in outside?thread diameter but that is not the critical dimension.? The?pitch diameter?of the thread? is what counts, not the outside diameter.? If your collets slide in and out of the threaded end of the draw tube this is very odd.? It may indicate that the thread in the draw tube is totally?worn out as I have seen this on a couple of SB draw tubes.? Especially?on the lever operated collet closer as they can exert way more force than a hand wheel draw bar. As to lever operated Dalton draw bar setups they are very rare.? I have one for a Lot 6 and Dalton 9 inch but do not have one for the smaller lathe.? I only know of one that is owned by a guy near Chicago and he loaned it to me when we exhibited?at the NAMEs model engineering show in 2016.? Ralph also has many other Dalton accessories we only see in catalogs. Pictures attached were taken when Ralph loans?me his lever operated collet closer.? Just some information guys.
Well... I've got a problem.? I ordered a 3C Collet Draw Bar from Ebay
that is a bit longer than the Dalton draw bar I have.? I chose to do
this because I didn't want to butcher the Dalton draw bar for more
extension.
I received the draw bar but when I went to screw in the Dalton collet it
just slid right in. No thread engagement at all.? I looked up 3C collet
dimensions and as you would expect there are more than one dimension
documents that don't appear to match.
South Bend collet dimensions for a #3 collet which is claimed to be
compatible with 3-C collets shows an overall length of 2 7/16 which
matches my Dalton collet.? The diameter of the collet shaft is .6495 on
the chart and my Dalton collet diameter is .645, a difference of .0045.?
The thread length on the chart for a 3-C is .750 and the Dalton collet
thread length is .600.? The thread diameter on the South Bend chart is
.642 which is very close to the Dalton collet thread diameter.
The inside diameter of the draw bar where threaded is .654 which allows
my Dalton collets to slide in and out.
Before I ask to return this draw bar I want to make sure that it is not
3-C as advertised.? I can't find a thread diameter on the SB chart that
matches it so it may be a metric draw bar.
I was under the impression that 3-C was a hard standard but if mistaken
please set me straight.
I want to make sure that I am correct before I ask to a return the draw bar.
Thanks,
Peter
|
Re: Drawbar Question - too short
Hi Peter I have Dalton as well as SB and Hardinge 3C collets.? They only vary a couple of thousands?in outside?thread diameter but that is not the critical dimension.? The?pitch diameter?of the thread? is what counts, not the outside diameter.? If your collets slide in and out of the threaded end of the draw tube this is very odd.? It may indicate that the thread in the draw tube is totally?worn out as I have seen this on a couple of SB draw tubes.? Especially?on the lever operated collet closer as they can exert way more force than a hand wheel draw bar. As to lever operated Dalton draw bar setups they are very rare.? I have one for a Lot 6 and Dalton 9 inch but do not have one for the smaller lathe.? I only know of one that is owned by a guy near Chicago and he loaned it to me when we exhibited?at the NAMEs model engineering show in 2016.? Ralph also has many other Dalton accessories we only see in catalogs. Pictures attached were taken when Ralph loans?me his lever operated collet closer.? Just some information guys.
Well... I've got a problem.? I ordered a 3C Collet Draw Bar from Ebay
that is a bit longer than the Dalton draw bar I have.? I chose to do
this because I didn't want to butcher the Dalton draw bar for more
extension.
I received the draw bar but when I went to screw in the Dalton collet it
just slid right in. No thread engagement at all.? I looked up 3C collet
dimensions and as you would expect there are more than one dimension
documents that don't appear to match.
South Bend collet dimensions for a #3 collet which is claimed to be
compatible with 3-C collets shows an overall length of 2 7/16 which
matches my Dalton collet.? The diameter of the collet shaft is .6495 on
the chart and my Dalton collet diameter is .645, a difference of .0045.?
The thread length on the chart for a 3-C is .750 and the Dalton collet
thread length is .600.? The thread diameter on the South Bend chart is
.642 which is very close to the Dalton collet thread diameter.
The inside diameter of the draw bar where threaded is .654 which allows
my Dalton collets to slide in and out.
Before I ask to return this draw bar I want to make sure that it is not
3-C as advertised.? I can't find a thread diameter on the SB chart that
matches it so it may be a metric draw bar.
I was under the impression that 3-C was a hard standard but if mistaken
please set me straight.
I want to make sure that I am correct before I ask to a return the draw bar.
Thanks,
Peter
|
Re: Drawbar Question - too short
Well... I've got a problem.? I ordered a 3C Collet Draw Bar from Ebay that is a bit longer than the Dalton draw bar I have.? I chose to do this because I didn't want to butcher the Dalton draw bar for more extension.
I received the draw bar but when I went to screw in the Dalton collet it just slid right in. No thread engagement at all.? I looked up 3C collet dimensions and as you would expect there are more than one dimension documents that don't appear to match.
South Bend collet dimensions for a #3 collet which is claimed to be compatible with 3-C collets shows an overall length of 2 7/16 which matches my Dalton collet.? The diameter of the collet shaft is .6495 on the chart and my Dalton collet diameter is .645, a difference of .0045.? The thread length on the chart for a 3-C is .750 and the Dalton collet thread length is .600.? The thread diameter on the South Bend chart is .642 which is very close to the Dalton collet thread diameter.
The inside diameter of the draw bar where threaded is .654 which allows my Dalton collets to slide in and out.
Before I ask to return this draw bar I want to make sure that it is not 3-C as advertised.? I can't find a thread diameter on the SB chart that matches it so it may be a metric draw bar.
I was under the impression that 3-C was a hard standard but if mistaken please set me straight.
I want to make sure that I am correct before I ask to a return the draw bar.
Thanks,
Peter
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Re: Dalton Lot 4 no. 2071 compound slide question
It will not be as convenient?but you can add a witness mark on the other side so you can use the degree marks as they are on your lathe.? Knowing how the degree graduations and numbers?were roll stamped onto the bottom slide It would?have been really easy for the operator to stamp the wrong side of the casting.? In all the old lathes I have restored I find different mfg would put the graduations in different places some on bottom compound casting like a Dalton but others were roll stamped on the cross slide front back and on either side.? Was kind of a crapshoot how the different companies did this. Dennis
On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 3:29?PM Charlie Earnest via <springgreensaws= [email protected]> wrote: Dennis, thank you for clarifying. I see the difference between the scraped surface on the cross slide in your pic and the flaking on my lathe. Is it normal for someone to flake the backside of the lathe bed (and under the headstock) for oil retention?? I assumed the marks were original since they were underneath all of the paint. Perhaps the backside of the lathe bed, on either side of the big t-slot, was not painted or japanned originally? I obviously have no idea. As someone who researches and collects 150-200 year old saws, I can appreciate the amount of time and work that goes into learning all you can about a tool that has little information remaining from when it was manufactured.?
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When I set my compound slide up like that the numbers are not visible. Is it possible the compound or pieces from it are from another Lot? I can think of no reason why the degree/ numbers would've been added to the wrong side of the base.  --
Charlie Earnest?
Spring Green Saw Works
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Re: Drawbar Question - too short
That won't work.? You could shorten the shoulder of the draw tub that buts up against the end of the spindle to add length to the tube,? The original collet adapters were not very hard and did not hold up very well.? They were prone to damage when you? tried to remove them from?the spindle. I think in all the Daltons I have I only have one or two of the originals the rest are the ones like you have that were actually used on all 9 inch?South Bend lathes. The picture included is what I think your adapter looks like.?
Dennis - It's painfully obvious after looking at the adapter why I can't just cut off the flange.? It's easier for me to make a draw bar that works with the adapter I have then to scour the planet for the correct adapter.? At least I know what to do now.? Thanks, Peter
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Re: Drawbar Question - too short
Dennis - It's painfully obvious after looking at the adapter why I can't just cut off the flange.? It's easier for me to make a draw bar that works with the adapter I have then to scour the planet for the correct adapter.? At least I know what to do now.? Thanks, Peter
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Re: Dalton Lot 4 no. 2071 compound slide question
Dennis, thank you for clarifying. I see the difference between the scraped surface on the cross slide in your pic and the flaking on my lathe. Is it normal for someone to flake the backside of the lathe bed (and under the headstock) for oil retention? ?I assumed the marks were original since they were underneath all of the paint. Perhaps the backside of the lathe bed, on either side of the big t-slot, was not painted or japanned originally? I obviously have no idea. As someone who researches and collects 150-200 year old saws, I can appreciate the amount of time and work that goes into learning all you can about a tool that has little information remaining from when it was manufactured.?
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When I set my compound slide up like that the numbers are not visible. Is it possible the compound or pieces from it are from another Lot? I can think of no reason why the degree/ numbers would've been added to the wrong side of the base.  --
Charlie Earnest?
Spring Green Saw Works
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Re: Drawbar Question - too short
Thanks Dennis - I am using the wrong adapter.? My draw bar looks like the picture you posted.? Finding the correct original equipment adapter could be quite a challenge.? Perhaps I can make this one work by removing the flange and trimming it so that it mounts flush with the spindle end.? I imagine the adapter I have is hardened which makes modifications troublesome.
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Peter
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Re: Drawbar Question - too short
As to a shorter spindle yes the Lot 2 was a bit shorter but the Lot 3 4 and 5 all have the same length spindle. The picture shows what an original Dalton draw bar looked like.? They all had the red plastic?hand wheel.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 2:06?PM Dennis Turk via <dennisturk448= [email protected]> wrote: What collet nose adapter?are you using?? The original Dalton 3C adapter did not have a flange on it and was flush to the end of the spindle thread when installed.? the picture shows an original 3C adapter and thread guard.?
I have a late 20's B4-Lot 5 Dalton Lathe that I've restored.? I purchased a set of Dalton Collets along with the drawbar and collet adapter some time ago.? The drawbar appears to be too short by about 5/8".? From the shoulder to the end of the drawbar is just a bit shy of 9".? It appears to me that the drawbar should be about 9 1/2 or 9 5/8 inches from shoulder to end.? If someone in the group has a Dalton drawbar please measure it from the shoulder to the end.? I could make this one work by cutting back the shoulder to extend the reach of the bar but I'd like to understand the problem first.? The collets say 'Dalton' on them.? the adapter is unbranded and the drawbar has no name on it but it is clearly a vintage piece.? Was there an earlier Dalton lathe that had different (shorter) spindle dimensions?
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Dennis Turk
hunter
Aaron Nedd
