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Re: driver testing

 

I think you can get the CD here. I am downloading now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/2xzs2z/a_gift_to_you_all_binks_audio_test_cd_a_tool/


Re: driver testing

dina hirsch
 

The Bink audio Cd has all frequencies, swoops, etc. I think I can upload it to the site as it¡¯s in my iTunes library?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:24 AM Dave Smith <soldershack@...> wrote:
Google "Test tones" and you'll find a bunch of downloadable tones that you can use to sweep your system with.
I'm a retired EE and have a bunch of test equipment at my disposal so I've used a signal generator in the past to run frequency sweeps of my system.
The Home Theater groups have a ton of software that is for setting up systems that you might find useful too, but I just use sine wave sweeps.










Re: driver testing

 

Google "Test tones" and you'll find a bunch of downloadable tones that you can use to sweep your system with.
I'm a retired EE and have a bunch of test equipment at my disposal so I've used a signal generator in the past to run frequency sweeps of my system.
The Home Theater groups have a ton of software that is for setting up systems that you might find useful too, but I just use sine wave sweeps.


Re: driver testing

 

For me, listening to music is subjective. ?What sounds good to a tone deaf person is unbearable to another. ?Ideally would want pure tones much like a nurse would give you for a hearing test. ?The speaker either reproduces the tone, or there is silence.


Re: driver testing

 

I work very hard, take pride in my work and make sacrifices to have items I truly enjoy. ?The speakers were not restored to sell, but for many years of uncompromised enjoyment with friends. ?Relative to the $30k I spent building a vintage Lemans, GT40 race engine, it was cheap money.


Re: driver testing

 

$700 in parts...if you're being truly objective about it, would you do it again and more importantly, spend that much or go for lesser expensive parts?


Re: driver testing

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Wow, that's quite a upgrade.? My suggestion is to use music you like and compare to a speaker that you like.??

Not knowing your musical tastes or what format you listen to, I'm going to take a stab at sharing my methods for evaluating a speaker system.?

Music should include male and female vocalists you listen to and know reasonably well.? Percussions, strings and horns should also be included in your test suite.? You mentioned tone so vocals and piano are good references.??

I've had DQ10s in multiple setups and find their greatest attribute to be Soundstage and holographic, when setup properly.

I am in Arizona so we are about as far apart as is possible or I would offer to listen to your speakers.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "D. Springfield" <gwi@...>
Date: 9/27/20 8:24 AM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing

I recently rewired and replaced all the crossover components on my DQ10s. ?Materials were the finest available, and work to highest standards. ?Have about $700 in parts. ?Sounds OK. ?But to be honest, the high end timbre is not impressive. ?Is there an audio test recording available to prove out function? ?I am in southern Vermont and wouldn't be opposed to someone that's an experienced audiophile giving a second opinion. ?Driving speakers with a Yamaha PC2002.


Re: Value of upgrading

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have an MX-1 too.? Have never used it.? Hmm, maybe I should be thinning the herd.? NAH!? ;)?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: dina hirsch <Rdajr1079@...>
Date: 9/27/20 1:44 PM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] Value of upgrading

I totally agree and that was my intended point! I bought two pairs for 300 each all working with yellow working caps. I invented 259 and 35 min each to mid xo with almost identical value caps a and resistors. They aren¡¯t worth anymore the 300.00! Some would even shy away as xo not originals. Fort I have a set of original xo but I do not intend to sell either set. I too have mx1, lp1 fully upgraded, and two dq1. In the end I don¡¯t use mx1 or lp1. Ran days of tests and I get what I need from a sub xo on each dq1 set at 80hz. I do power the subs with a300 w Mac 2300 total overkill . My point is the original yellow caps worked fine. Marginal increase in bass reserve using a big can cap. Only hear diff on 1812 cannons.
Mids and highs marginally tamed dn a bit less harsh. But for just pleasing myself, not sure too most users it¡¯s worth the time and costs. They are 300$ a pair. What a steal. You can spend 10k on B&w speakers and the sound again is marginally?better. I have a pair of 802d. I prefer my 300 dq10. I have klipsh corner horns. Better bass rest of tones can¡¯t touch dq10. I have 4 sets of Bozak symphanies and if I want to listen for more then couple hrs, prefer them to any of the above. THEY ARE WORTH 300.09 in whatever u do yo them isn¡¯t changing their value. People asking 500 sit on eBay for month and month. These 300 speakers are a fantastic value. End of my story

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 3:16 PM w e <sky27709@...> wrote:
Funny side not about the black grill cloth. My WAF went up considerably when I proposed doing the off-white/cream color vs doing black again. My preference is the black just because it strikes me as more "hi fi" looking, but I can't articulate a rational explanation for that. That said, as soon as I crossed over to cream, the wife was much more willing to have them in our house, especially since it came with a pair of DQ-1W subs!!










Re: Value of upgrading

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Yep! I know exactly what your talking about.? Keeping your significant other is paramount to being able to enjoy this hobby.??

In my case the solution has been a separate/dedicated listening room.? As a side benefit my sons use the space to practice their instruments.? They both play sax in high school bands.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: w e <sky27709@...>
Date: 9/27/20 12:16 PM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] Value of upgrading

Funny side not about the black grill cloth. My WAF went up considerably when I proposed doing the off-white/cream color vs doing black again. My preference is the black just because it strikes me as more "hi fi" looking, but I can't articulate a rational explanation for that. That said, as soon as I crossed over to cream, the wife was much more willing to have them in our house, especially since it came with a pair of DQ-1W subs!!


Re: Value of upgrading

dina hirsch
 

I totally agree and that was my intended point! I bought two pairs for 300 each all working with yellow working caps. I invented 259 and 35 min each to mid xo with almost identical value caps a and resistors. They aren¡¯t worth anymore the 300.00! Some would even shy away as xo not originals. Fort I have a set of original xo but I do not intend to sell either set. I too have mx1, lp1 fully upgraded, and two dq1. In the end I don¡¯t use mx1 or lp1. Ran days of tests and I get what I need from a sub xo on each dq1 set at 80hz. I do power the subs with a300 w Mac 2300 total overkill . My point is the original yellow caps worked fine. Marginal increase in bass reserve using a big can cap. Only hear diff on 1812 cannons.
Mids and highs marginally tamed dn a bit less harsh. But for just pleasing myself, not sure too most users it¡¯s worth the time and costs. They are 300$ a pair. What a steal. You can spend 10k on B&w speakers and the sound again is marginally?better. I have a pair of 802d. I prefer my 300 dq10. I have klipsh corner horns. Better bass rest of tones can¡¯t touch dq10. I have 4 sets of Bozak symphanies and if I want to listen for more then couple hrs, prefer them to any of the above. THEY ARE WORTH 300.09 in whatever u do yo them isn¡¯t changing their value. People asking 500 sit on eBay for month and month. These 300 speakers are a fantastic value. End of my story

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 3:16 PM w e <sky27709@...> wrote:
Funny side not about the black grill cloth. My WAF went up considerably when I proposed doing the off-white/cream color vs doing black again. My preference is the black just because it strikes me as more "hi fi" looking, but I can't articulate a rational explanation for that. That said, as soon as I crossed over to cream, the wife was much more willing to have them in our house, especially since it came with a pair of DQ-1W subs!!










Re: Value of upgrading

 

Funny side not about the black grill cloth. My WAF went up considerably when I proposed doing the off-white/cream color vs doing black again. My preference is the black just because it strikes me as more "hi fi" looking, but I can't articulate a rational explanation for that. That said, as soon as I crossed over to cream, the wife was much more willing to have them in our house, especially since it came with a pair of DQ-1W subs!!


Re: Value of upgrading

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Dina,
I understand your logic and have no intent to offend.? Here is what you might expect from a buyer, though.

Grill cloth other than the more common black is a personal choice.? Some of us find white/beige to be less desirable.? Over the years I have designed, built and modified more x-overs than I can recall.? It's not particularly difficult and normally represents the cost of passive and a few hours labor.

As the owner of 2 each of the following; pairs of DQ-10's, DW1's and LP-1's, my observation is that information on DQ-10's is well documented and readily available online.? The only upgrade of significance would be Regnar x-overs, which represent a significant investment of questionable value.

Just MHO, if you can get more than $500 for a pair for original/near original more power to you.

Ed



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: dina hirsch <Rdajr1079@...>
Date: 9/27/20 9:15 AM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] Value of upgrading

Considering I¡¯ve found two sets with stands, one mirrored , one not, with perfect grill clothes and original yellow caps, all working fine for 300.00 for each set, the cost aren¡¯t significant. I redid all xo with clarity caps and mills resistors . Total cost about 250 per set of xo¡¯s.?

Woofers on one set replaced with ones repaired by simply speakers, the other set I did myself.?

Hence my total investment is 550.00 per set. I¡¯ll take a chance and say that for that amount of money you would be hard-pressed to find a better sounding set of speakers. And to answer the next question yes recapping does change the sound both in the low mid and high end

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 12:09 PM w e <sky27709@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]



Thanks Ed, but in this case I'm going to have to (respectfully) agree, disagree, and take a maybe position. I don't consider replacing the cloth a maintenance item. Most owners never do it and get by with original. It really doesn't degrade (maybe gets sun bleached if near a window but these weren't). So just as I wouldn't automatically repaint my car after 10 yrs., I don't think the cloth qualifies. And I also spent some time sanding and refinishing with walnut oil the rails so they look fresh and new again. The woofs - yes, If they go bad you're out of biz and it sounds it too. I wouldn't sell a pair that needed it unless I informed the buyer first and discounted to factor in cost to fix. Cap on the other hand sit in the middle. These 10's were working fine, with the original caps, so replacing them to me was more of a "preventative" measure dictated by their age. kind of like replacing your brake pads makes sense BEFORE you start hearing grinding from the rotor.

So based on this, I'd want to get back 100% of my cloth/cosmetic costs. eat the woofer costs, and price up or down based on the prevalence of 10's WITH upgraded caps vs how many are offered WITHOUT. Some buyers might, in fact, prefer to do their own upgrade of the x-overs and want them original, vs. already modified. For this reason, I'd consider auctioning them on eBay to get top dollar, but there's no way I'm gong through the hassle of trying to ship these things.

BTW - if anyone is looking for boxes, I recall I found some through Uline. Can't remember if they were already close in size or custom, but nonetheless, worth checking out if you're moving a pair.

Last but not least, there's the time factor in doing all three. For my part, and since there is no simple "how to" instruction guide out there for any of these modifications, there is a considerable learning curve if one wishes to do a good job and not much things up. I take the angle of really studying and then going slow so it looks perfect rather than cut corners and do a slipshod job I regret later. The grill cloth may look easy, but to get it right, it's a real bear and takes some real time. I've also seen refoam jobs that look terrible (excess glue all over, surrounds on backwards). So there is that to take into consideration.










Re: Value of upgrading

 

w e,

I¡¯d value a set of DQ-10s with professionally recapped crossovers & professionally refoamed woofers circa 2008 at 125-150% over a functional untouched set. This is accounting for seller reinstalled crossover & woofer with cosmetics & all other upgrades such as wiring, binding posts and high-frequency pot being equal.?

If the maintenance was completely done at a reputable shop or Regnar, I¡¯d value the difference to be 2X to 3X.?

Conversely, both sets would have equal ?if the recap & refoam was done by completely by the seller. ?This is subjective based on qualitative factors of the seller.....is the seller unloading their unrealized upgrade & mistake.?

Andy


Re: Value of upgrading

dina hirsch
 

Considering I¡¯ve found two sets with stands, one mirrored , one not, with perfect grill clothes and original yellow caps, all working fine for 300.00 for each set, the cost aren¡¯t significant. I redid all xo with clarity caps and mills resistors . Total cost about 250 per set of xo¡¯s.?

Woofers on one set replaced with ones repaired by simply speakers, the other set I did myself.?

Hence my total investment is 550.00 per set. I¡¯ll take a chance and say that for that amount of money you would be hard-pressed to find a better sounding set of speakers. And to answer the next question yes recapping does change the sound both in the low mid and high end

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 12:09 PM w e <sky27709@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]



Thanks Ed, but in this case I'm going to have to (respectfully) agree, disagree, and take a maybe position. I don't consider replacing the cloth a maintenance item. Most owners never do it and get by with original. It really doesn't degrade (maybe gets sun bleached if near a window but these weren't). So just as I wouldn't automatically repaint my car after 10 yrs., I don't think the cloth qualifies. And I also spent some time sanding and refinishing with walnut oil the rails so they look fresh and new again. The woofs - yes, If they go bad you're out of biz and it sounds it too. I wouldn't sell a pair that needed it unless I informed the buyer first and discounted to factor in cost to fix. Cap on the other hand sit in the middle. These 10's were working fine, with the original caps, so replacing them to me was more of a "preventative" measure dictated by their age. kind of like replacing your brake pads makes sense BEFORE you start hearing grinding from the rotor.

So based on this, I'd want to get back 100% of my cloth/cosmetic costs. eat the woofer costs, and price up or down based on the prevalence of 10's WITH upgraded caps vs how many are offered WITHOUT. Some buyers might, in fact, prefer to do their own upgrade of the x-overs and want them original, vs. already modified. For this reason, I'd consider auctioning them on eBay to get top dollar, but there's no way I'm gong through the hassle of trying to ship these things.

BTW - if anyone is looking for boxes, I recall I found some through Uline. Can't remember if they were already close in size or custom, but nonetheless, worth checking out if you're moving a pair.

Last but not least, there's the time factor in doing all three. For my part, and since there is no simple "how to" instruction guide out there for any of these modifications, there is a considerable learning curve if one wishes to do a good job and not much things up. I take the angle of really studying and then going slow so it looks perfect rather than cut corners and do a slipshod job I regret later. The grill cloth may look easy, but to get it right, it's a real bear and takes some real time. I've also seen refoam jobs that look terrible (excess glue all over, surrounds on backwards). So there is that to take into consideration.










Re: Value of upgrading

 
Edited

Thanks Ed, but in this case I'm going to have to (respectfully) agree, disagree, and take a maybe position. I don't consider replacing the cloth a maintenance item. Most owners never do it and get by with original. It really doesn't degrade (maybe gets sun bleached if near a window but these weren't). So just as I wouldn't automatically repaint my car after 10 yrs., I don't think the cloth qualifies. And I also spent some time sanding and refinishing with walnut oil the rails so they look fresh and new again. The woofs - yes, If they go bad you're out of biz and it sounds it too. I wouldn't sell a pair that needed it unless I informed the buyer first and discounted to factor in cost to fix. Cap on the other hand sit in the middle. These 10's were working fine, with the original caps, so replacing them to me was more of a "preventative" measure dictated by their age. kind of like replacing your brake pads makes sense BEFORE you start hearing grinding from the rotor.

So based on this, I'd want to get back 100% of my cloth/cosmetic costs. eat the woofer costs, and price up or down based on the prevalence of 10's WITH upgraded caps vs how many are offered WITHOUT. Some buyers might, in fact, prefer to do their own upgrade of the x-overs and want them original, vs. already modified. For this reason, I'd consider auctioning them on eBay to get top dollar, but there's no way I'm going through the hassle of trying to ship these things.

BTW - if anyone is looking for boxes, I recall I found some through Uline. Can't remember if they were already close in size or custom, but nonetheless, worth checking out if you're moving a pair.

Last but not least, there's the time factor in doing all three. For my part, and since recapping, refoaming and reupholstering are time-consuming endeavors, there is a considerable learning curve if one wishes to do a good job and not muck things up or worse yet, trash the speaker. My approach is to really study any videos and literature, get guidance from the experts out here, and then going slow so it looks perfect rather than cut corners and do a slipshod job I regret later. For example, the grill cloth change may LOOK easy, but when you get into it, it's a real bear and takes some real time. I would say mine look as good as original but I probably spent 10 hrs minimum per grill. I've also seen refoam jobs that look terrible (excess glue all over, surrounds on backwards). So there is that to take into consideration.


driver testing

 

I recently rewired and replaced all the crossover components on my DQ10s. ?Materials were the finest available, and work to highest standards. ?Have about $700 in parts. ?Sounds OK. ?But to be honest, the high end timbre is not impressive. ?Is there an audio test recording available to prove out function? ?I am in southern Vermont and wouldn't be opposed to someone that's an experienced audiophile giving a second opinion. ?Driving speakers with a Yamaha PC2002.


Re: Value of upgrading

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

My opinion may not be in the majority, so take it with a grain of salt.? The changes you describe are actually part of maintenance.? Foam and capacitors are known wear items in DQ-10¡¯s.? Without capacitor upgrades, re-foaming the woofers you would have a non-working pair of speakers.? Even grill cloth replacement is an owner decision that only replaces existing grill cloth.? We¡¯ve all heard the adage, something is worth what someone will pay you for it.? Good luck with whatever you decide to do.? Parting with audio gear is always tough for me.? I still have my first integrated amp, bought new in the mid-70¡¯s. ?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of w e
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 7:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [DahlquistSpeakers] Value of upgrading

?

I own two pair of 10's, one pair in serial range of 37,000 and the other in the 47,000 range. That may not be relevant to my question but thought I'd mention it in case it is. The earlier pair had the caps replaced maybe 12 yrs ago, but have seen almost zero use since. The second pair has all original caps (Yellow Mexico). I'm debating selling one set. The easiest route would be sell the earlier pair and upgrade the 47,000 pair. How much additional "street value" do members feel the upgrades add for pricing purposes? Oh, and I also refoamed the woofs, refinished the side rails and replaced the grill cloth with cream-colored Guilford of Maine 701 (the absolute closest I have ever found to matching the original off-white.


Value of upgrading

 

I own two pair of 10's, one pair in serial range of 37,000 and the other in the 47,000 range. That may not be relevant to my question but thought I'd mention it in case it is. The earlier pair had the caps replaced maybe 12 yrs ago, but have seen almost zero use since. The second pair has all original caps (Yellow Mexico). I'm debating selling one set. The easiest route would be sell the earlier pair and upgrade the 47,000 pair. How much additional "street value" do members feel the upgrades add for pricing purposes? Oh, and I also refoamed the woofs, refinished the side rails and replaced the grill cloth with cream-colored Guilford of Maine 701 (the absolute closest I have ever found to matching the original off-white.


Re: DQ-10 Midrange Speaker Crackle - Part II

 

John van Son -- I think you nailed the solution.? And thank you?to everyone who offered a solution, because if the problem comes back, I will be re-reading your advice!!

?First, my soldering iron is not the best (tiny end and the tip was nearing end of life) and then coupled with my crap soldering skills, when I replaced the old crossovers with Regnar rebuilt ones, I have had the perfect storm of loose solder connections on the speaker tabs AND I undoubtedly bent the tabs away from the speaker cones (and toward the magnets) on probably more than one speaker, to make the soldering easier and keep hot and potentially dripping solder away from the fragile speaker material, that then probably resulted in the speaker tab metal touching the top plates of the magnet structures -- and as you wisely said could create this problem.? Wiggling the speaker wires (or the right frequency vibration) was in turn wiggling things just enough to cause the vibration induced shorting.

So, for the moment until I do more testing, the crackle and sometimes lingering static and fuzziness is gone -- after I resoldered some loose speaker wire connections (still not great solder work) AND I pushed the speaker tabs back toward the front of the speakers -- as I must have bent them back to make soldering easier at some point (not realizing I was creating another problem).? ?

So, for all of you -- solder carefully, and be careful what you bend and twist when you monkey with the innards of your DQ-10s.? The electrical gremlins are ready to strike without a moment's notice!? Hats off to all of you!!!

Thank you so much John!!!

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:28 PM John van Son <jpvanson@...> wrote:

The tinsels for the midrange dome are mounted on the driver's front plate and accessible without disassembling the driver. You can see them from the front of the speaker, actually, without any undoing anything other than the grill. The tabs you see are just mounted to pass throughs that the tinsels are then attached to on the front. The screws you removed should be replaced. Disassembly of the driver for access to the soft parts involves the four screws on the front, but you shouldn't have need to do that just yet. It's best to hold off on that as long as possible as it's difficult to center the voice coil of a dome driver during reassembly to prevent rubbing if you've not done it before.

?

I don't have an example at hand (my parts and DQ-10s are in storage), but what sounds like might be happening is you may have bent the tabs when soldering to touch the topplate of the magnet structure. This would cause a short if both are in contact. This could cause crackling with intermittent contact. With firmer contact as you are applying during testing, while the crossover should still be presenting resistance to the amplifier in that case, it might reduce the system's impedance enough to be triggering the amplifier's protect circuitry causing it to cut out.

Of course, the crackle may be unrelated to the tabs shorting when you push them and may be due to a rubbing voice coil with the midrange dome. This will happen if the driver has been damaged from excess power causing the coil to unwind partially when the glue let go, but not enough to completely blow the driver. There is another case in that it might be the woofer that's blown. Dahlquist's documents indicate the tweeter and possibly also this driver would create a buzzing (high frequency noise) if the woofer was suffering a short. If you have an ohm meter handy, it'd be worth measuring both these drivers and seeing what you get.


Re: DQ-10 Midrange Speaker Crackle - Part II

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Regnar redid my speakers with good results, probably 15 years + ago.

Paul

On Sep 25, 2020, at 8:43 PM, Andy Heckl <andyheckl@...> wrote:

Patrick,

The other posters on this thread all have good advice. Joe at Regnar?refurbished a set of my DQ-10s a few year ago. He did stellar work and I couldn¡¯t be happier. I¡¯m sure he¡¯s run into this problem before. I¡¯d take this question to him. He¡¯s always been very willing to help me out.?

My apologies if you¡¯ve already mentioned this route in a previous post. ?


Andy