Driver power handling is based on the frequency distribution in 'typical' music. So if an overall speaker is rated at 100W, it definitely doesn't mean you can run each driver at that level. So, in general, the higher the frequency range, the less power a driver can handle if connected directly to a signal generator. Even if you are trying to test each driver through the crossovers, and not directly connecting a driver to a signal generator, there is a limit to how long high frequencies drivers can take sustained tones.
Also, crossover have overlap - their bandwidth on each output does not look like a square wave. Sometimes I use a cardboard tube between my ear and a driver to focus on sound coming out of the particular driver I'm interested in.
-----Original Message----- From: w e <sky27709@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 9:33 am Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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My room is 20 ft. x 30 ft with 10ft ceiling, or 6000 sq. ft.? And I thought that was big….? Nothing when compared to 85,000 sq. ft.? Is there any chance you are living in a retail outlet? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of D. Springfield Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 9:09 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? My listening area is sort of unique. ?Is a 8500 SF, open air room, carpeted with acoustic ceiling tile and 10 ft ceilings. ?Speakers about 15 feet apart, and I prefer to listen about 30-40 feet away.?
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Certainly don’t disagree with your assessments.? For me, the DQ-10 was a halo product when I was a teenager.? Today, I have amps and speaker systems in excess of my needs.? Many of the speaker systems I’ve built outperform Dahlquist’s on every measurable metric, still the DQ-10 holds a special place in my collection.? They still get used, albeit less often some other speakers that have a more refined sound and darker backgrounds.? Their popularity today speaks to their mystic and also their overall musicality. ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of godd186 via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 8:23 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? Having not owned 10’s since the 70’s and given their age, some say there are more practical options for speakers like that magnepan set for under 2k. The imaging is exceptional obviously, but one can’t overlook the fact that the drivers are quite ordinary and the 10’sI have heard struggle with heavier music. Add subs and power and you are getting up there in cost ? Yes, sort of.? The piezo driver is reported to be difficult to hear for most people.? My 65 yr. old ears definitely don’t hear it.? Otherwise, yes.? I recommend that each driver be driven individually with a tone in the center of their operating range.? Otherwise, you may get a response from multiple drivers that operate at a given frequency.? Just be careful not to overdrive an individual speaker, or you may be replacing one that worked before the tone test. ? Oops, just saw Richards response below.? What Richard said. ? ? Absolutely. And if u want to test ranges... disconnect speaker wires and hook up one at a time and run the freq individually with a dn meter at each freq, or just run a sweep.? ? Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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I seem to recall somewhere in Dahlquist literature a recomended spacing of 6-8 ft, as ideal, with a on-center listening disctance of 10 ft. as appropriate for the vast majority of home room dimensions. Too much space between speakers and you start to forfeit the blended nature of the sound. You don;t really want a gaping "dead space" between the two speakers. Similarly, you want to be close enough to lessen the potential impact of sound wavs bouncing all over and crashing into each other. If I were to fill 8500 sq. ft., I'd just buy a half dozen JBL's and go full-on disco dance hall. The DQ 10's are way outside their preferred environment in that situation.? ?
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That's a big, big area. It would help to have them near a wall, but man that's a big place for a pair of DQ-10s to cover.
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My listening area is sort of unique. ?Is a 8500 SF, open air room, carpeted with acoustic ceiling tile and 10 ft ceilings. ?Speakers about 15 feet apart, and I prefer to listen about 30-40 feet away.?
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I have a box of piezo tweeters, bought when I was rebuilding my DQ-10’s.? Thought the replacements were defective until realizing I no longer heard frequencies that high.? Fortunately hearing to 10-12kHz covers the fundamentals of music. ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of richard adelberg Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:56 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? I never hear piezo unless I take speaker leads from amp directly and touch it to sprJrr leads? ? Yes, sort of.? The piezo driver is reported to be difficult to hear for most people.? My 65 yr. old ears definitely don’t hear it.? Otherwise, yes.? I recommend that each driver be driven individually with a tone in the center of their operating range.? Otherwise, you may get a response from multiple drivers that operate at a given frequency.? Just be careful not to overdrive an individual speaker, or you may be replacing one that worked before the tone test. ? Oops, just saw Richards response below.? What Richard said. ? ? Absolutely. And if u want to test ranges... disconnect speaker wires and hook up one at a time and run the freq individually with a dn meter at each freq, or just run a sweep.? ? Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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I heartily recommend giving it a try.? Worst case, you find it not to your liking and try a different arrangement.? ? I have sometimes spent weeks, even months, ?trying different placement before finding the ideal for my listening tastes.? ? During the last 20 yrs. I have had the benefit of large, dedicated, listening rooms.? Even when the room is ideal on paper, the challenges of achieving balanced frequency response and a holographic soundstage can be time consuming.? Persistence is the name of the game. ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of richard adelberg Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 8:00 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? I’ve been curious if tilting inwards towards listening position is advisable ? At the risk of stating the obvious…..have you tried different speaker positions?? With a direct/reflexing speak like the DQ-10 position can have a significant impact on sound quality.? Not knowing your room and furniture configuration it’s difficult to make any recommendations on placement.? There are a number of good tutorials available on the web.? Look for one that includes discussion on nodes and anti-nodes as well as guidance on position relative to front and side walls. ? ? Last night I used several of the test tones to confirm speaker function.? Works like a charm.? Thanks so much!? Even got to hear the super tweeter doing its thing.
Both the test tones and my music were downloaded onto a SD card and played back thru a media player.? Question is, why isn't my music more realistic?? Have been downloading FLAC files of remastered recordings from Qobuz.? Test tomes are a .wav file.? I've set the media player up with an external, digital to analog converter before inputting to a Yamaha PC2002 amp.
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Having not owned 10’s since the 70’s and given their age, some say there are more practical options for speakers like that magnepan set for under 2k. The imaging is exceptional obviously, but one can’t overlook the fact that the drivers are quite ordinary and the 10’sI have heard struggle with heavier music. Add subs and power and you are getting up there in cost
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On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Ed Lindsey <sealindsey@...> wrote:
? Yes, sort of.? The piezo driver is reported to be difficult to hear for most people.? My 65 yr. old ears definitely don’t hear it.? Otherwise, yes.? I recommend that each driver be driven individually with a tone in the center of their operating range.? Otherwise, you may get a response from multiple drivers that operate at a given frequency.? Just be careful not to overdrive an individual speaker, or you may be replacing one that worked before the tone test. ? Oops, just saw Richards response below.? What Richard said. ? ? Absolutely. And if u want to test ranges... disconnect speaker wires and hook up one at a time and run the freq individually with a dn meter at each freq, or just run a sweep.? ? Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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I’ve been curious if tilting inwards towards listening position is advisable
At the risk of stating the obvious…..have you tried different speaker positions?? With a direct/reflexing speak like the DQ-10 position can have a significant impact on sound quality.? Not knowing your room and furniture configuration it’s difficult to make any recommendations on placement.? There are a number of good tutorials available on the web.? Look for one that includes discussion on nodes and anti-nodes as well as guidance on position relative to front and side walls. ? ? Last night I used several of the test tones to confirm speaker function.? Works like a charm.? Thanks so much!? Even got to hear the super tweeter doing its thing.
Both the test tones and my music were downloaded onto a SD card and played back thru a media player.? Question is, why isn't my music more realistic?? Have been downloading FLAC files of remastered recordings from Qobuz.? Test tomes are a .wav file.? I've set the media player up with an external, digital to analog converter before inputting to a Yamaha PC2002 amp.
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At the risk of stating the obvious…..have you tried different speaker positions?? With a direct/reflexing speak like the DQ-10 position can have a significant impact on sound quality.? Not knowing your room and furniture configuration it’s difficult to make any recommendations on placement.? There are a number of good tutorials available on the web.? Look for one that includes discussion on nodes and anti-nodes as well as guidance on position relative to front and side walls. ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of D. Springfield Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:22 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? Last night I used several of the test tones to confirm speaker function. ?Works like a charm. ?Thanks so much! ?Even got to hear the super tweeter doing its thing.
Both the test tones and my music were downloaded onto a SD card and played back thru a media player. ?Question is, why isn't my music more realistic? ?Have been downloading FLAC files of remastered recordings from Qobuz. ?Test tomes are a .wav file. ?I've set the media player up with an external, digital to analog converter before inputting to a Yamaha PC2002 amp.
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I never hear piezo unless I take speaker leads from amp directly and touch it to sprJrr leads?
Yes, sort of.? The piezo driver is reported to be difficult to hear for most people.? My 65 yr. old ears definitely don’t hear it.? Otherwise, yes.? I recommend that each driver be driven individually with a tone in the center of their operating range.? Otherwise, you may get a response from multiple drivers that operate at a given frequency.? Just be careful not to overdrive an individual speaker, or you may be replacing one that worked before the tone test. ? Oops, just saw Richards response below.? What Richard said. ? ? Absolutely. And if u want to test ranges... disconnect speaker wires and hook up one at a time and run the freq individually with a dn meter at each freq, or just run a sweep.? ? Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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Yes, sort of.? The piezo driver is reported to be difficult to hear for most people.? My 65 yr. old ears definitely don’t hear it.? Otherwise, yes.? I recommend that each driver be driven individually with a tone in the center of their operating range.? Otherwise, you may get a response from multiple drivers that operate at a given frequency.? Just be careful not to overdrive an individual speaker, or you may be replacing one that worked before the tone test. ? Oops, just saw Richards response below.? What Richard said. ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of richard adelberg Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:39 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? Absolutely. And if u want to test ranges... disconnect speaker wires and hook up one at a time and run the freq individually with a dn meter at each freq, or just run a sweep.? ? Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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Absolutely.? What you will have a harder time with is tone and balance.? The secret sauce is the multitude of variables that go into making a speaker work in balance.? If you will, designing, building speakers and measuring them is sort of like cooking.? There is a ratio of ingredients and cooking process that makes the best meal for everyone.? Sometimes it’s not the same for everyone.? For pure tone comparison I recommend the following. - Use a tone generator to ensure you are sending the speaker pure tones of a known quality and quantity.
- Use a guitar tuner to measure the accuracy of the tone projected by the speaker.
What this won’t tell you is the SPL generated, either individually or as compared to higher or lower frequency tones.?? Rise time and decay will also not be measured, both of which are part of the secret sauce. Hope this helps. ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of w e Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:48 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing ? For the non-engineers without testing equipment, can we just "isten" to confirm a driver is working?
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Last night I used several of the test tones to confirm speaker function. ?Works like a charm. ?Thanks so much! ?Even got to hear the super tweeter doing its thing.
Both the test tones and my music were downloaded onto a SD card and played back thru a media player. ?Question is, why isn't my music more realistic? ?Have been downloading FLAC files of remastered recordings from Qobuz. ?Test tomes are a .wav file. ?I've set the media player up with an external, digital to analog converter before inputting to a Yamaha PC2002 amp.
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For the non-engineers without testing equipment, can we just "isten" to confirm a driver is working?
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Absolutely. And if u want to test ranges... disconnect speaker wires and hook up one at a time and run the freq individually with a dn meter at each freq, or just run a sweep.?
Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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Ed - Can one just use the Binks test tones to merely determine that all five drivers are working?
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The usual measurement method is done in a listening room using a calibrated microphone to capture a short frequency sweep.? The mic is placed in the listening position location.
Results are very different from those obtained when frequency response is measured in an anechoic chamber. Variables such as speaker, mic placement and surfaces can have significant effects or measured frequency response.
Comparing speaker mfg's published frequency responses to those measured in-room are almost guaranteed to disappoint.??
Another complexity, different speakers that measure similarly can have very different sound signatures due to parameters that are not measured with Fast Fournier Tranform, which is the standard method to graph frequency response.
Honestly, the subject is to complex to describe in a couple of paragraphs.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: "D. Springfield" <gwi@...> Date: 9/28/20 3:47 PM (GMT-07:00) Subject: Re: [DahlquistSpeakers] driver testing
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?Those suggestions are exactly what I had looked for. ?Guess I didn't have the right verbiage for a Google search. ?I will post what I discover. ?Curious, has anyone else done this to confirm for certain if rewired speakers are working correctly thru the full, audio range?
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Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?Those suggestions are exactly what I had looked for. ?Guess I didn't have the right verbiage for a Google search. ?I will post what I discover. ?Curious, has anyone else done this to confirm for certain if rewired speakers are working correctly thru the full, audio range?
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Ed Lindsey
SpongeSound