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Please remove me from your mailing list.. Thanks very
much.Peace out.

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Re: Introduction

#120

Hi, Red Pill,

?

Yours was a most interesting e-mail. I agree with you, and what I would like, too, is ideas and day to day examples of living the Course. I have many past experiences, but I think it would be best for me if I share with others forgiveness stories that are current. I also agree about excessive swapping of quotes being boring.

?

Although I don't think the answer is as full, I have gotten some support from reading Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta's student, Ramesh Balsekar. Currently now, though, thanks to reading Disappearance, I am going back to the Course to study it more deeply rather than dabbling with these others.

?

Thanks!

?

Linda

What I hoping for most in this group are ideas on practicing,

both formally and, more importantly, in day to day examples

of living the Course.? I will be most easily seduced into lively

metaphysical discussions and most likely bored to tears with

(excessive) swapping of quotes (from any source).? Im always

interested in anything that augments, supplements, enhances

the ideas which have drawn us here.? For example Garys

mentioning Elaine Pagels Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel

of Thomas.?

?

I wonder if anyone here thinks some of the other non-dualists

have worthwhile contributions to this practice (Nisargadatta

comes to mind for example).

?

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Re: unsubscribe

[email protected]

#121

Hello cowdoc@...,

In reference to your comment:

è Please remove me from your mailing list.. Thanks very
è much.Peace out.

You have to unsubcribe yourself.? No one else can do that

Using Forgiveness re Lawsuit/Deposition

Sheila Bush

#119

Dear Gary and All,

I have a story that I'm living, and want to share tonight, and update you by Friday.   I have to go for a deposition tomorrow regarding a lawsuit against me and my car insurance company, to the tune of $52,000.  I have not recognized this as a big deal at all, simply because of the circumstance that caused it.  I just cannot wait to figure out what I am to learn from this one!

I was travelling in dead stop/creeping traffic on the interstate when my little Geo's bumper touched the bumper in front of me.  The lady driving in front of me looked thru her rear view and waved at me, and I waved back.  We knew it was no big deal.  Then out of the blue comes this big, raging guy from BEHIND me who was none other than her husband (ie, they were travelling separately, wife in front, husband behind me).  I rolled down my window, only to witness him rage at me for "riding her A--" and threatening me, etc. I simply stated, "Mister, it's why God made bumpers.  No one is hurt and it was only a bump!"  He went off, and I raised my window, with my insides fast turning to jello!!!  He went to speak with his wife, then came BACK to my car window, which I cracked, and he raged more, stating that she'd hurt her neck, etc.  This was May 27, 2002, by the way, day before Memorial Day over a year ago.

We crept on, and they pulled over, so I decided to check on her.  She would not give me eye contact, and said her neck hurt too badly to see if there was any damage to the car.  But if I would just give them my insurance card numbers, they'd go on.  I replied that I would share nothing with them without a police by my side.  They suggested we all go to the exit, where there was an accident, and see the police.  I determined to go one exit further and dialed 911 while I was at it, to report this raging man over this minor incident.  Within 5 minutes I had a police escort me back to the previous exit and a police officer said that it was a good thing I'd called, cos they were coming after me as a "hit and run."   However, he thought that it could all be dropped as there was obviously no car damage, and some people just "lose their temper."

I am still in shock today, as I was then, that this whole thing is happening.  But I'm guessing I'm to see my lesson of forgiveness for the man who raged, the woman who I sincerely believe lied, and for the inconvenience of the entire series of events. I am also learning that I have been praying for that family since May 27, 2002, and have not stopped.  I pray for their highest good.  I pray that if their financial need is so great that, perhaps, the attornies will, in fact, find SOMEthing about my choices that day that cause $52,000 to go to that family.  I however, stand innocent and without guilt about the incident (other than the fact that I DID bump her from behind).  Otherwise, I am choosing to breathe SLOWLY and to seek the Holy Spirit in this and all situations in my life and theirs.  I am willing to see this differently.  I am willing to learn forgiveness.  I am willing to see my part in this.  I am willing...

Thank you for listening...stay tuned for Deposition UPDATE, same time, same station (as we're all in the moment, it IS the same time/station, isn't it???)

PS  The attorney assigned to me by my insurance company is wonderful.  I know he will do well, and I know I will speak my truth.  Not sure what else matters, do you???

Sheila

Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.

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[VILLAGE] 'Jesus box' exposed as fake

[email protected]

#118

Re: Elaine Pagels and the new interest in Saint Thomas

garybrown39194

#117

I too heard that Fresh Air interview with Elaine Pagels, and found it 
very interesting, especially in light of having read 
DISAPPEARANCE.... 2 times already.  I remember buying a paperback 
copy of Pagel's THE GNOSTIC GOSPELS, maybe 10 years ago and never 
actually reading it.  I think I am ready for it now.  Hope to get 
ahold of her new book about the Gospel of Thomas when my libary 
procures it.  
                         Gary Brown--- In 
Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "garyrrenard" 
<garyrrenard@y...> wrote:
    I've never read any of Elaine Pagels books. (For those who don't 
know, she is a Ph.D. from Harvard and Professor of Philosophy at 
Princeton, and author of a couple of famous books, including "The 
Gnostic Gospels" and her new best seller, "Beyond Belief: The Secret 
Gospel of Thomas.") As you know, Thomas is a subject that's near and 
dear to my heart (LOL) so when Elaine was interviewed on National 
Public Radio a couple of weeks ago, I listened with great interest.
     The first thing I noticed was that she seemed to be confirming, 
albeit in a more scholarly fashion, the things that Pursah said about 
Thomas and the church in "Disappearance." It reminded me of what 
Pursah half seriously said on P.81, "I told you they snubbed me." I 
think Elaine made a good case for the Jesus of The Gospel of Thomas 
being much closer to the historical Jesus, who was the most highly 
advanced wisdom teacher and was leading people to the Kingdom of God 
through an internal process, while the later written Gospels, 
especially The Gospel of John, (which may have been written as long 
as 70 years after the first version of Thomas) portrayed Jesus as 
God's only Son who came to die for our sins in a sacrificial act of 
Atonement, which is a concept totally alien to Thomas.
     I also think it's interesting that there has been a marked 
increase in interest lately in The Gospel of Thomas as well as Thomas 
himself. Surely my visitors knew this would happen, and it will be 
interesting to watch how "Disappearance" takes its place in the grand 
scheme of things. (BTW, I have also been told that one of the themes 
of the new and very popular novel, "The DaVinci Code" has to do with 
Jesus' marriage to Mary Magdalene, a subject that my teachers also 
touched upon.) It's fascinating to me that my book came out just 
before these two. 
     I think perhaps Elaine's most important contribution is that she 
emphasizes in a highly credible way that Jesus was not about 
Christianity's made up set of beliefs, but about the seeking of 
spiritual experience that would lead one to God. I also hope that my 
book demonstrates, through Arten and Pursah's many statements, 
including Pursah's explanation of about 20 of the sayings in The 
Gospel of Thomas, which she then uses to move into the teachngs of 
the Course, that the Voice of that Gospel and the Voice of A Course 
in Miracles are indeed one and the same: the Voice of the historical 
Jesus. Love and peace, Gary.

Introduction

red pill

#116

开云体育

Usually I lurk on groups but I’d like to try to be at least a

little active with this one. I’m impressed with Gary’蝉

clear interest and participation.

?

I read a lot and don’t often read books twice….ever…..much

less back to back.? However I find myself rereading Disappearance

(with a highlighter and two pens).? I really don’t remember the

last time something hit me this hard.? It’蝉 actually difficult

to describe it’蝉 impact so far.

?

I bought a copy of ACIM probably about 10 years ago.? It

had a pull on me but sat on my bookshelf most of that time.

I don’t think I would have ever taken a closer look without

reading Disappearance (which I am hard pressed to

explain finding in the first place and actually reading).

?

I was a Philosophy and Religion major in college, during the

wonderful years in the first half of the ‘70s.? I read

Norman O. Brown and Castaneda; Plato and Ram Dass;

Kerouac, Kesey, and Kafka. I’ve sat in Zendos; had satsang

with gurus; tried (and tried and tried and tried) to reconcile

with the spiritual tradition into which I was born.? And I’m

still searching.? Disappearance feels very different… something

deep inside seems to have answered back.

?

I’m a 50 year old clinical social worker. I work in a state

psychiatric hospital by day and do psychotherapy in

private practice in the evenings.? Yesterday was my 24^th

wedding anniversary. We named our daughter after our

first yoga teacher and our son after my favorite rock star.

?

What I hoping for most in this group are ideas on practicing,

both formally and, more importantly, in day to day examples

of living the Course.? I will be most easily seduced into lively

metaphysical discussions and most likely bored to tears with

(excessive) swapping of quotes (from any source).? I’m always

interested in anything that augments, supplements, enhances

the ideas which have drawn us here.? For example Gary’蝉

mentioning Elaine Pagel’蝉 Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel

of Thomas.?

?

I wonder if anyone here thinks some of the other non-dualists

have worthwhile contributions to this practice (Nisargadatta

comes to mind for example).

?

It’蝉 late and I need to rest. ?I look forward to further

discussions.

?

Jim

?

Elaine Pagels and the new interest in Saint Thomas

#115

I've never read any of Elaine Pagels books. (For those who don't 
know, she is a Ph.D. from Harvard and Professor of Philosophy at 
Princeton, and author of a couple of famous books, including "The 
Gnostic Gospels" and her new best seller, "Beyond Belief: The Secret 
Gospel of Thomas.") As you know, Thomas is a subject that's near and 
dear to my heart (LOL) so when Elaine was interviewed on National 
Public Radio a couple of weeks ago, I listened with great interest.
     The first thing I noticed was that she seemed to be confirming, 
albeit in a more scholarly fashion, the things that Pursah said about 
Thomas and the church in "Disappearance." It reminded me of what 
Pursah half seriously said on P.81, "I told you they snubbed me." I 
think Elaine made a good case for the Jesus of The Gospel of Thomas 
being much closer to the historical Jesus, who was the most highly 
advanced wisdom teacher and was leading people to the Kingdom of God 
through an internal process, while the later written Gospels, 
especially The Gospel of John, (which may have been written as long 
as 70 years after the first version of Thomas) portrayed Jesus as 
God's only Son who came to die for our sins in a sacrificial act of 
Atonement, which is a concept totally alien to Thomas.
     I also think it's interesting that there has been a marked 
increase in interest lately in The Gospel of Thomas as well as Thomas 
himself. Surely my visitors knew this would happen, and it will be 
interesting to watch how "Disappearance" takes its place in the grand 
scheme of things. (BTW, I have also been told that one of the themes 
of the new and very popular novel, "The DaVinci Code" has to do with 
Jesus' marriage to Mary Magdalene, a subject that my teachers also 
touched upon.) It's fascinating to me that my book came out just 
before these two. 
     I think perhaps Elaine's most important contribution is that she 
emphasizes in a highly credible way that Jesus was not about 
Christianity's made up set of beliefs, but about the seeking of 
spiritual experience that would lead one to God. I also hope that my 
book demonstrates, through Arten and Pursah's many statements, 
including Pursah's explanation of about 20 of the sayings in The 
Gospel of Thomas, which she then uses to move into the teachngs of 
the Course, that the Voice of that Gospel and the Voice of A Course 
in Miracles are indeed one and the same: the Voice of the historical 
Jesus. Love and peace, Gary.

Re: A Thought Process Example

#114

Thanks to everyone for posting! This group has a very positive and 
useful tone. And thank you Linda, for using the Forgiveness Thought 
Process Example Pursah gave me, and that's recorded on P.256 
of "Disappearance." Those words have helped me tremendously, as soon 
as I remember them. Remembering is the hardest part. Sometimes it's 
instantaneous, but sometimes, when the stuff hits the fan, I still 
forget and then do it later. Your message about you and your friend 
was very moving, and the way you are using forgiveness in these 
circumstances shows a miracle mind-set. Thanks to all; there's a lot 
of the Holy Spirit's work going on here. Love and peace, Gary.

A Thought Process Example

#113

Still reading and assimilating the book. Saving most questions and comments for when I am done and have started re-reading it. In the meantime though...

?

There is a young woman that I have seen in a Course group I have mostly not been attending for a few years, but I do see her once in awhile. She e-mailed me a couple of weeks ago telling me that she was having very bad problems with her boyfriend of 5 years and was wondering if she could stay at my house for awhile. She had called for help for phone via voicemail about a month ago but had later said she found some relief through talking with a national?ACIM leader. Turned out the help was only temporary, because he just said to forgive but didn't help find out how through examples, etc. in her life or in his, etc. Just forgive. She has since been undergoing counselling, too, with her boyfriend with a church (ACIM type) minister, but the minister had gotten emotionally involved and could not counsel them anymore. Anyway, she has been staying here with me in Indianapolis for about a week and been on a?roller coaster.

?

We have had some good talks - and I have been helped in talking with her, too,?thanks to the refresher course I've been reading?that is?The Disappearance of the Universe. In fact, it might be that this morning we had a turning point as I helped her realize that she wasn't upset for the reason she thought. She is off meeting with him now, and we'll see. He is a Course student, too, so they are both trying to use it.

?

What I wanted to tell you, though, (my point ) is that last night she was really so angry and upset that she was even somewhat violent. But I had printed out for her TRUE FORGIVENESS - A Thought Process Example and offered it to her saying that it could be useful anytime she might be in an ego snit and needed help out of it. She had left it on the table, so I didn't know if she ever would take it. This morning she reported that she had woken up feeling bad and had taken the printout, applied it, and that it had helped her very much. Because of reading it, she had come out of the ego frame of mind and felt much better and was able to go to sleep. She had woken up feeling good, too, which was great, because meantime I had been given? an idea of what I thought might be the true crux of their problem. I could never have talked with her about it if she were still in the ego state of the night before. And it is all perfect timing, because if the talk with him works out this morning she is going to go forward with another action that she had been feeling too unforgiving to do. She and her boyfriend will go visit his father in Tennesee - who is really wanting to help them make it. It is a trip her boyfriend really hoped she would make.

?

I don't know if all this will come about. I only know right now that she is in a better state because of this example that is on page 256. It is forgiveness in a nutshell.

?

Thank you Arten and Pursah, and thank you Gary.

?

Linda

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Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

[email protected]

#112

Hello mastreet@...,

In reference to your comment:

è It just dawned on me, that probably the actual trial is
è over, and now it will just be the lawyers that need to
è appear in court again. Actually I don't follow it, that
è closely myself, as it really will not have any bearing on
è me.

LOL this is this exact "energy" (reaction) I get whenever the topic comes up.? But I understand? ... Thank you

Peace

========Original Message========
Subj: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: One of many forgiveness lessons
Date: 6/15/2003 4:44:06 AM Mountain Standard Time
From: mastreet@...
Reply-to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...
Sent from the Internet (Details)

In reference to my comment:

è You mean to say that you don't know that the
è copyright trial is going on New York city? I believe they
è are near the end of a two week recess so the judge
è could look over all the submissions, and then they are
è suppose to be back.
?
Hi again Ossie:
?
It just dawned on me, that probably the actual trial is over, and now it will just be the lawyers that need to appear in court again. Actually I don't follow it, that closely myself, as it really will not have any bearing on me.

Peace, Martha :-)

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Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

mstreet

#111

开云体育

In reference to my comment:

è You mean to say that you don't know that the
è copyright trial is going on New York city? I believe they
è are near the end of a two week recess so the judge
è could look over all the submissions, and then they are
è suppose to be back.

?

Hi again Ossie:

?

It just dawned on me, that probably the actual trial is over, and now it will just be the lawyers that need to appear in court again. Actually I don't follow it, that closely myself, as it really will not have any bearing on me.

?

Peace, Martha :-)

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

[email protected]

#110

Hello mastreet@...,

In reference to your comment:

è You mean to say that you don't know that the
è copyright trial is going on New York city? I believe they
è are near the end of a two week recess so the judge
è could look over all the submissions, and then they are
è suppose to be back. It is the trial between the
è Endeavor Academy and FACIM. After all these years it
è is finally in trial.

oooh that.? Never really understood the issue.? Whenever I walk in on the topic in the listserv, I always came at the tail end and I can tell that folks were talked out ... so I never really pressed for informtion.? So we shall see.?? Thanks for the heads up though.

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

mstreet

#109

开云体育

Ossie wrote:

>> what trial?<<

?

Hi Ossie:

?

You mean to say that you don't know that the copyright trial is going on New York city? I believe they are near the end of a two week recess so the judge could look over all the submissions, and then they are suppose to be back. It is the trial between the Endeavor Academy and FACIM. After all these years it is finally in trial.

?

~ Martha

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

mstreet

#107

开云体育

Ossie wrote:

>>I am also attending a workshop and seminar in Atlanta that Ken and Gloria will be conducting at the end of this month.?? Hmmm a whole week ...ooooh ... this is going to be interesting.<<

?

Hi again Ossie:

?

I was just wondering what will happen if Ken is called back to the trial on that date? Will they just postpone the classes or what?

?

~ Martha

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

[email protected]

#108

Hello mastreet@...,

In reference to your comment:

è? I was just wondering what will happen if Ken is called
è back to the trial on that date? Will they just postpone
è the classes or what?

What trial?

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

mstreet

#106

开云体育

Ossie wrote:

>>It is very scary to according to the world "minimize" such an event.? But I have to or else I will never experience peace and one of the things my son emphasized to me was not to grieve too long, to move on with my life and I agreed with him.<<?

?

Sounds to me, as if your son was wise beyond his years. A great teacher. Giving the gift of not to holding on to the past, and wanting you to have that freedom also. Besides in truth, love can never be lost. Which it seems he realized also.

?

Peace, Martha

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

mstreet

#104

开云体育

?

Ossie wrote:
>>Ken is just on another level ... half the time I don't understand anything he is saying ....<<

?

(LOL) I still find myself falling asleep while listening to him on tapes. And sometimes I need to run it over a few times before I seem to get it. Actually, I find that by writing down what he is saying, from a tape recorder, helps me to digest each sentance very slowly. (Which I apparantly need.)

>>I went to the Foundation a couple of months after my son passed away and briefly spoke to Ken, and the one thing I walked away with is that I could not rush through this grief process, but he said I would know when I was making more of it than it really is ... and I understood what he meant.? I am at that point now (almost three years later) ...<<

?

That sounds like helpful advice. I myself find it difficult responding to a person who has lost a child. My sister in law, lost her daughter to cancer, and she seemed to need to talk about her all the time. I think that that too is part of the grieving process. She too has passed on now, but I think that only another person who has gone through it, can understand it.

>>I see the pay off of having a son who has passed away ... for it makes me very special, oh boy the attention I can get ... but I don't want it any more ... After reading Gary's book it was clear I was ready to forgive ... so that is what I am working on now.? All those painful memories ... there are a lot of them ... just keep forgiving and remembering not to do it alone.<<

?

Well... in the need for specialness area, we all want that. Our ego's couldn't survive with out it. Often when I give up in what seems to be one area of wanting specialnesss, I seem to quickly find another. And like you say, I just need to keep on forgiving myself for wanting it, and others for not giving it to me. :-)

>>So when I go to Atlanta and attend the classes, I will constantly forgive Ken, even though my real forgiveness lessons revolve around Gloria.. something about her irks me.<<

?

I think it is helpful to notice how much we are irked, by another, (at least for me) because only then do I know what needs looking at with the Holy Spirit. My husband and I are perfect learning partners, for each other in this.

>>Ken and the Course speaks on a an intellectual level and I have had a difficult time comprending the Course on that level even though listening to him is stimulating at the same time.? The Course is like listening to music ... I could not tell you really anything really about the music other that I love it ... enjoy listening for it speaks to my spirit.<<

?

I loved that analogy. I feel that is the way I am learning about the Course. First on an intellectual level, and then like a piece of music, it seems to become part of me.

>>That is why I appreciate Gary's Book ... because the language that is spoken there is what I can clearly understand.<<

?

Yes, I loved it too. It spoke of the Course, in a way that I could understand, but was also, was well written with a touch of mystery to it, that appealed to me.

>> And the beauty of this Course is that when I work it ... my life is easier.? :-)<<

?

Yes. And yes, again. It works, when I work at doing it. Forgiving. Bringing my grievances to the Holy Spirit to look at with me. An ongoing procedure I am thinking, until I am completely free of all of them. I understand it can be done in one instant, but then I seem to go back and forth. I guess when I truly want them (my grievances) any more, (or the purpose they serve,) then I will be completely free of them.? Meanwhile, I will just forgive myself for needing so much time.

?

Peace, Martha :-)

?

Re: One of many forgiveness lessons

[email protected]

#105

Hello mastreet@...,

In reference to your comment:

è That sounds like helpful advice. I myself find it difficult
è responding to a person who has lost a child. My sister
è in law, lost her daughter to cancer, and she seemed to
è need to talk about her all the time. I think that that too
è is part of the grieving process. She too has passed on
è now, but I think that only another person who has gone
è through it, can understand it.

You know Martha, in Awaken from the Dream and in Gary's book they talk about the split off from Heaven, and at that moment when we realized what we had done ... we thought we destroyed God/heaven and at same experienced the overwhelming pain of being seemingly separated from the One.

I remember how I felt when I read Awaken from the Dream thinking? ... I thought to myself "my goodness that is the way I have felt all my life," but accordingly to therapists,? I thought it was because my mother died when I was little.? :-)

If you ever felt a glimpse of that pain, then you can understand the loss of a child, or understand when someone they have been with for many many years has transitioned.? The pain is undescribeable.? That is why the ego makes sure that it stays in the unconsciousness and when the pain surfaces makes sure that it is projected out side on something, someone or some event.

The ego specialty is specialness as you stated earlier, but one thing I got really cleary from Gary's book (the way the symbols keep repeating it) and one of the first principals ...? "There is no order of difficulty in miracles"?? there is only one problem and thus only one solution .. etc.,

I was able to make the connection while reading the book that my son's death is no different then when I get pissed off when a car cuts me off.? It may not be my experience ... but I understand it and can say it and then I ask for help to make it my experience.

It is very scary to according to the world "minimize" such an event.? But I have to or else I will never experience peace and one of the things my son emphasized to me was not to grieve too long, to move on with my life and I agreed with him.?

But it was a lot more difficult than I had imagined.? No matter how much pain I may have experienced at any given moment I also knew this pain was just the tip of the iceberg and if I tried to experience any more without help I would go crazy.? There were moments I wanted to end this existence ... but after being exposed to the Course .. I just chuckle to myself? ... go where?? all I am going to do is carry this pain with me to another imaginary place ... I realize the insanity of it all ... and then I say HELP!

And when I think that the pain that I went through is just glimpse of the pain of Sonship seemed to feel when the separation seemed to occur.

All I can say is eeeuuuuuuuuweeeeee .. I have a ways to go.

Re: P.S.

mstreet

#101

开云体育

I had said: >>So now I feel ready to be led out of the dream. :-) <<

?

Make that: "experience the Holy Spirit's happy dream."

?

?Peace Martha :-)?

?