NW Digital Radio ThumbDV? vs DV3000
From: NW Digital Radio Date: Saturday, February 21, 2015 Subject: [New post] ThumbDV? vs?
John Hays posted: "We have received a few inquiries?about the functional difference between the DV3000 and ThumbDV?. The ThumbDV? is a thumb or dongle type DV device for connection to a computer (PC, Laptop, Tablet, Raspberry Pi, Odroid, etc.) to provide access to AMBE enc"
We have received a few inquiries?about the functional difference between the DV3000 and ThumbDV?.
The is a thumb or dongle type DV device for connection to a computer (PC, Laptop, Tablet, Raspberry Pi, Odroid, etc.) to provide access to AMBE encoding and decoding. ?It is the more portable of the two devices in that you can plug it into any USB (2.0 or greater) port on a computer and access it as a serial port via appropriate software to get in the D-STAR system.
The is designed to use the GPIO UART pins on a (including Raspberry Pi 2 and compatible devices such as the Odroid C1)? to provide access to AMBE encoding and decoding. ?It can be adapted to other similar devices using jumper wires to connect the UART, but only maps to Raspberry Pi GPIO pins.
?
From a software point of view they are equivalent and are accessed as serial ports (COMx under Windows, ?tty? under Linux/Mac OS X, ) at 230.4 kbps. ?Software for using these devices included G4KLX's , ?, and modified versiona of DSD ( have modified for use with the ThumbDV?/DV3000 for monitoring DMR, Fusion, P25 Phase 2, etc. -- contact the developers for more information).
Visit the ?for additional information.
?
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There really is no such thing as the “Correct feed line”
?
Which feedline should you use, that’s easy, the best one that you have the money to get.
?
?
Figure out much gain you want, take the gain of the antenna and subtract the loss of the coax. LMR-200 has a loss of about 14 db at 1.2 GHz. So that means 10
watts from the ID-1 ends up being about 5 watts ERP.
Move to LMR and you end up with a +10db budget, for about 20W ERP.
?
Here’s a decent page to calculate coax loss.
?
For 1.2 GHz, if your antenna has more gain than the coax has loss, then life is pretty good.
?
But LMR-900 is about $5 per foot, and when you add connectors, about $700 total.
?
As I said, you really want to get the best feedline that you can afford. 1.2GHz is really lossy.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 12:17 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Feed Line
?
?
?We have the following setup for our 1.2 gig Dstar repeater and we are looking for the industry standard
when it comes to the
correct feed line
between the repeater and the Antenna.
Can someone give us a suggestion???
Feed line length is 125' from repeater to antenna
?The duplexor model is 28-97-01B (http://www.birdrf.com/Products/Duplexers_Triplexers/Duplexers/896-3000%20MHz/28-97-01B_1215-1300-MHz-Duplexer.aspx#.VNjV8010zio ). The insertion loss listed is 1.0dB
The Antenna is a Hustler HS12-12430
Hustler Spirit -- HS12-12430 (12 dBd)
? *?? Gain: 6 dBd, 9 dBd, 12 dBd
? *?? Bandwidth: 80 MHz.
? *?? V.S.W.R.: 1.5:1
? *?? Polarization: Vertical
? *?? Power Rating: 300 Watts Maximum
? *?? Termination: Type N Female
? *?? Vertical Aperture (3 dB from max.):
Any help would be appreciated.
|
Angelo and others, ?? I asked the guy that put together our system, which is not on the air yet, but hope to have it soon.?? Below is his response about what we use.?? He did not give me the model number of the 7/8" heliax, but I think it is the same as what Dallas mentions. 73, Tom KC9ONY?? (see below) "The answer is 130ft of 7/8" Heliax with an 18ft flexible jumper of RG-218 on
the antenna side of the Heliax and 5ft of RG-217 on the combiner side. I
would say that is about the maximum length for 7/8" Heliax. A jump to
1-5/8" Heliax would be in order for runs that are longer. Some folks might
say that 1-5/8" heliax is overkill, but I remind everyone that all 1.2GHz
D-Star equipment is only 10 watts transmit power. With the losses in a
combiner, it would be no problem on even a relativily short run to end up
with less than 5 watts arriving at the antenna. "
---In D-STAR_23cm@..., <mylastname@...> wrote : Angelo, From what you have listed below it looks like y'all are running a totally new cable run from the repeater rack to a new antenna...
Hopefully most of your 125' run is UP and not wasted getting out of the building...
I would go with?7/8" Heliax coax cable... ?LDF5-50A is not cheap but finding a surplus 125' piece is doable... ?Lots of cell towers use it and they buy it by the 500-1000' spool
Most folks don't connect this directly to the duplexer or the antenna so a slightly shorter pieces works fine... ?Just as the cable enters the building you can put your lighting protection device and transition from 7/8" to 1/2" Heliax to run in the building... ?That way you won't need a 700 pound gorilla to fight with the coax run in side trying to make the 7/8" stuff bend and follow the cable tray... ?You would also have a 1/2" Heliax pig-tail going to the antenna... ?
I've only helped with one tri-band D-Star install and we are getting ready to move it from the 4th story roof of a hospital roof to the new 8th floor roof... ?
We went a different route... ?Our 1.2GHz DV and DD are combined and then we used a 3-band Diplexor/Splitter at the back of the repeater rack to get all 4 RF signals into one Heliax run... ?Then we purchased the best 3-band "D-Star" antenna we could get.... ?That way the cost of the Heliax is spread across the 3 repeaters and the 1.2GHz DD...
If most of your 125' is getting out of the building then it might just make sense to stick with 1/2" Heliax for the hole run as with our hospital install... ?We only are going 20' up a tower and the other 60' or so is in the building... ?
I hope this helps....
? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | Special Order only, Please Call to Order LDF5-50A, HELIAX? Low Density Foam Coaxial Cable, corrugated copper, 7/8 in, black PE jacket < | | | Preview by Yahoo | | ? |
? 73 Dallas, KD4HNX
Whatever you do, don’t fall victim to?“paralysis by
analysis.” Go ahead and buy/build one and start?
tinkering with it. This is a learn by doing hobby.
No politician or scholar assured your freedoms.
A Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman did!
From: "Angelo Glorioso n5uxt@... [D-STAR_23cm]" <D-STAR_23cm@...>
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 11:17 AM
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Feed Line
Hi All, ? ?We have the following setup
for our 1.2 gig Dstar repeater and we are looking for the industry
standard when it comes to the
correct feed line between the
repeater and the Antenna. ? Can someone give us a
suggestion??? ? 7 3 de
Angelo
|
I don't have a 23cm repeater, but I haven't seen a reply here either.
I would use the largest coax I could justify.
LMR-600 has about 3 db loss per 100'.
Andrew Heliax 1/2" LDF4-50A has about 2.5 dB loss per 100'.
If I could justify the price and benefit, I'd even try to go larger, but I wouldn't
go smaller. You will loose that signal on receive as well.
There are probably other opinions, but I thought I'd share mine. Good luck with it
all.
Arnold
KQ6DI
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angelo Glorioso n5uxt@... [D-STAR_23cm]"
<D-STAR_23cm@...>
To: <D-STAR_23cm@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 9:17 AM
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Feed Line
Hi All,
We have the following setup for our 1.2 gig Dstar repeater and we are looking for
the industry standard
when it comes to the correct feed line between the repeater and the Antenna.
Can someone give us a suggestion???
Feed line length is 125' from repeater to antenna
The duplexor model is 28-97-01B
(
). The insertion loss listed is 1.0dB
The Antenna is a Hustler HS12-12430
Hustler Spirit -- HS12-12430 (12 dBd)
* Gain: 6 dBd, 9 dBd, 12 dBd
* Bandwidth: 80 MHz.
* V.S.W.R.: 1.5:1
* Polarization: Vertical
* Power Rating: 300 Watts Maximum
* Termination: Type N Female
* Vertical Aperture (3 dB from max.):
Any help would be appreciated.
7 3 de Angelo
|
Angelo, From what you have listed below it looks like y'all are running a totally new cable run from the repeater rack to a new antenna...
Hopefully most of your 125' run is UP and not wasted getting out of the building...
I would go with?7/8" Heliax coax cable... ?LDF5-50A is not cheap but finding a surplus 125' piece is doable... ?Lots of cell towers use it and they buy it by the 500-1000' spool
Most folks don't connect this directly to the duplexer or the antenna so a slightly shorter pieces works fine... ?Just as the cable enters the building you can put your lighting protection device and transition from 7/8" to 1/2" Heliax to run in the building... ?That way you won't need a 700 pound gorilla to fight with the coax run in side trying to make the 7/8" stuff bend and follow the cable tray... ?You would also have a 1/2" Heliax pig-tail going to the antenna... ?
I've only helped with one tri-band D-Star install and we are getting ready to move it from the 4th story roof of a hospital roof to the new 8th floor roof... ?
We went a different route... ?Our 1.2GHz DV and DD are combined and then we used a 3-band Diplexor/Splitter at the back of the repeater rack to get all 4 RF signals into one Heliax run... ?Then we purchased the best 3-band "D-Star" antenna we could get.... ?That way the cost of the Heliax is spread across the 3 repeaters and the 1.2GHz DD...
If most of your 125' is getting out of the building then it might just make sense to stick with 1/2" Heliax for the hole run as with our hospital install... ?We only are going 20' up a tower and the other 60' or so is in the building... ?
I hope this helps....
? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | Special Order only, Please Call to Order LDF5-50A, HELIAX? Low Density Foam Coaxial Cable, corrugated copper, 7/8 in, black PE jacket < | | | Preview by Yahoo | | ? |
? 73 Dallas, KD4HNX
Whatever you do, don’t fall victim to?“paralysis by
analysis.” Go ahead and buy/build one and start?
tinkering with it. This is a learn by doing hobby.
No politician or scholar assured your freedoms.
A Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman did!
From: "Angelo Glorioso n5uxt@... [D-STAR_23cm]"
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 11:17 AM
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] Feed Line
Hi All,
?
?We have the following setup
for our 1.2 gig Dstar repeater and we are looking for the industry
standard
when it comes to the
correct feed line between the
repeater and the Antenna.
?
Can someone give us a
suggestion???
?
7 3 de
Angelo
|
You have made an excellent choice for an antenna and duplexer. I have had a Spirit up, for some years. now. As to transmission line. How low do you want to keep your losses and how much money do you have? 125 feet of 1 5/8" heliax would have about 1 db of loss. 1 1/4" would have about 1.25 db loss. 7/8" would have about 1.6 db. 5/8" about 2.4 db. LMR 400 probably around 6 db. Obviously the lower loss cable will cost you more money. So will the connectors.?
|
Hi All,
?
?We have the following setup
for our 1.2 gig Dstar repeater and we are looking for the industry
standard
when it comes to the
correct feed line between the
repeater and the Antenna.
?
Can someone give us a
suggestion???
?
7 3 de
Angelo
|
File - D-STAR 23cm Monthly Announcement.txt
D-STAR 23cm Ops -
Thanks for participating in the D-STAR 23cm group.
If you're using or experimenting with D-STAR on 23m currently let the group know how you're using D-STAR
by sending a message to the group, adding a Link in the Links area and/or Uploading a File to the Files area.
Messages & articles about how you currently or plan to use the high-speed data capability would be of particualar interest to group memebers.
By the way, there are already dozens of messages in the group's message log and
numerous files & links in the Files & Links areas about all aspects of D-STAR.
Please also let other D-STAR users, including those don't yet use D-STAR on 23cm, who aren't members of the group know about the group.
D-STAR 23cm Group
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Multiple PCs are definitely easy to setup this way, but you have to be careful about swamping the bandwidth of the ID-1s. Two PCs trying to receive 5Mb photos
is just going to be a miserable experience.
?
Kinda nice thing about the ID-1, you can easily watch the TX lights to see just how busy the link is.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:57 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
Ed,
There are many low power routers around that can be pressed into service as you describe. I'm partial to the Alix and Soekris devices myself. A useful side effect of the router is that you can service a good many PC's from the LAN side
of it. This is ideal for somewhere like a Red Cross shelter or a race control tent as it doesn't require much in the way of special skills on the users part. Indeed, you could offer WiFi to the locals from it.
With careful selection of one's firewall software (I like pFsense and m0n0Wall) one can write rules for the LAN port such that the firewall will drop all traffic _not_ going to a particular destination. This means that all your local LAN
traffic remains on the LAN without added messing with PC's and never escapes to the ID-1 side. Features such as remote access can also be added so that your "network administrator" can connect to all of the routers in the field to make dynamic changes - a
PPTP session over the ID-1 network would work gangbusters.
?
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q
yahu.stuff@... [D-STAR_23cm] <D-STAR_23cm@...> wrote:
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1 radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer" function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the network with address
:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11 (these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask 255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to 192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to do this:
-
Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add 192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just "route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct command in
this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0 192.168.1.11"
-
Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing (this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1 to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network, configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1, try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).? This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port 80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to "port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even easier:?
you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF network by the remote computer's
router address of 10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
A switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But even with the router, you still have
the issues of other applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad idea.
Bill
?
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
And while this may seem complicated to some to setup with the ID-1s, you can also start with the two routers plugged back to back or into the same switch/hub.
This allows you to make sure that the routing is configured correctly before adding the ID-1s.
?
When ready, just connect the routers to the ID-1 and everything should continue to operate.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:42 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1 radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer" function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the 192.168.1.0/24 network with address 192.168.1.10:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11 (these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask 255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to 192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to do this:
-
Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add 192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just "route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct command in
this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0 192.168.1.11"
-
Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing (this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1 to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network, configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1, try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).? This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port 80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to "port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even easier:?
you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF network by the remote computer's
router address of 10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
A switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But even with the router, you still have
the issues of other applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad idea.
Bill
?
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Ed,
Well done!!
There are many low power routers around that can be pressed into service as you describe. I'm partial to the Alix and Soekris devices myself. A useful side effect of the router is that you can service a good many PC's from the LAN side of it. This is ideal for somewhere like a Red Cross shelter or a race control tent as it doesn't require much in the way of special skills on the users part. Indeed, you could offer WiFi to the locals from it.
With careful selection of one's firewall software (I like pFsense and m0n0Wall) one can write rules for the LAN port such that the firewall will drop all traffic _not_ going to a particular destination. This means that all your local LAN traffic remains on the LAN without added messing with PC's and never escapes to the ID-1 side. Features such as remote access can also be added so that your "network administrator" can connect to all of the routers in the field to make dynamic changes - a PPTP session over the ID-1 network would work gangbusters.
Mark
?
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q yahu.stuff@... [D-STAR_23cm] <D-STAR_23cm@...> wrote:
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1
radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address
translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer"
function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is
spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the network with address
:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11
(these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same
network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask
255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x
addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to
192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to
do this:
- Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add
192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just
"route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in
Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct
command in this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0
192.168.1.11"
- Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing
(this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1
to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT
give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network,
configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on
the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1,
try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).?
This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to
enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network
functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two
computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding
or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port
80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to
"port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of
computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even
easier:? you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the
address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access
the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as
disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on
the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF
network by the remote computer's router address of
10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for
me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the
air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
A
switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But
even with the router, you still have the issues of other
applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1
to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from
hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere
would be a bad idea.
Bill
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
The configuration I use allows only wanted traffic between two ID-1
radios:
You need a router with each ID-1 that can do NAT (network address
translation) AND simple port forwarding (or a "DMZ computer"
function).? I use an old Netgear WGT624v2 (which does both), and is
spec'd to take 12vDC but runs just fine (as do my other Netgear
switches and routers) from a RigRunner supplying 14.2vDC.
Say computer #1 is on the 192.168.1.0/24 network with address
192.168.1.10:
I configure router #1 to have a LAN (local) address of? 192.168.1.11
(these are examples, pick your own IP addresses in the same
network), and a WAN (remote) address of 10.0.0.21 (netmask
255.0.0.0).? The router then becomes a gateway to all 10.x.x.x
addresses.
?I configure computer #1 to route only 10.x.x.x/8 traffic to
192.168.1.11 (the router's LAN address)? There are a couple ways to
do this:
- Use the ROUTE command at the Windows command line to add
192.168.1.11 as a gateway to the 10.x.x.x/8 network.? Type just
"route" at the Windows command line to learn the settings (in
Windows 7, this even displays an example).? I think the correct
command in this case is "ROUTE ADD 10.0.0.0 MASK 255.0.0.0
192.168.1.11"
- Go into your Windows settings and accomplish the same thing
(this varies by version of Windows).
Connect computer #1 to a LAN port of router #1, and connect ID-1 #1
to the WAN port of router #1.
Now do exactly the same thing with computer/router/ID-1 #2, EXCEPT
give router #2 a WAN address of 10.0.0.22.
If you have computer/router/ID-1 #3, #4, etc on the RF network,
configure them similarly, giving each router a unique WAN address on
the 10.x.x.x network.
With the radios on and enabled for data transfer, from computer #1,
try to ping 10.0.0.22 (or from computer #2, try to ping 10.0.0.21).?
This needs to work before you go any further.? You may have to
enable WAN pings on the routers.
If the above works, you now have the basics of your network
functional, but you can't (yet) pass traffic between the two
computers.? To do that, you have to use the router's port forwarding
or "DMZ computer" capability.
Let's say that computer #2 has a web server (typically using port
80) that computer #1 needs to access.? You configure router #2 to
"port-forward" all WAN requests for port 80, to the address of
computer #2.? If your router has a "DMZ" function, it's even
easier:? you configure router #2 to set the "DMZ computer" to the
address of computer #2.? Now computer #1 should be able to access
the web server on computer #2, using IP address 10.0.0.22.
Using the "DMZ computer" function has both advantages as
disadvantages:? It makes ALL of computer #2 TCP/IP ports visible on
the radio network.? This helps if you want to do file sharing.
Note that all computers should address other computers on the RF
network by the remote computer's router address of
10.x.x.x.
Note also that this is not the only way to do this, but it works for
me.? and it keeps the local network traffic at each site, off the
air.
-- Dean
On 2015-01-20 10:25, 'Woodrick, Ed'
ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote:
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Show quoted text
A
switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But
even with the router, you still have the issues of other
applications hogging the channel.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1
to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from
hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere
would be a bad idea.
Bill
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
A switch can help out a little, but a router is suggested. But even with the router, you still have the issues of other applications hogging the channel.
?
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From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 12:49 PM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: Re: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
> Otherwise the network or link comes to a complete stop. . We have also considered putting in
> firewall rules that only allow traffic outbound to the runner database
> but that turned out to not be necessary as the volunteers followed the guidelines.
I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network
switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the
airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad
idea.
Bill
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Otherwise the network or link comes to a complete stop. . We have also considered putting in
firewall rules that only allow traffic outbound to the runner database
but that turned out to not be necessary as the volunteers followed the guidelines. I've heard it suggested that simply hooking the ID-1 to a network switch helps prevent a lot of network traffic from hitting the airwaves. A hub that sends everything everywhere would be a bad idea. Bill
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Yep. For the Marine Corps Marathon we instruct operators that aid station computers are completely updated. Them say to turn off all updates for the race weekend. Otherwise the network or link comes to a complete stop. Discovered that the first year we used them. Lucky the offending laptop was just a short walk away. We have also considered putting in firewall rules that only allow traffic outbound to the runner database but that turned out to not be necessary as the volunteers followed the guidelines. 73, tom w7sua On 1/18/2015 2:16 PM, 'Woodrick, Ed' ewoodrick@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote: Leon,
Two ID-1s on the same channel just act as a Ethernet Hub. What goes in one side comes out the other.
And that’s a very important thing to remember, many Ethernet connections have a lot of background traffic occurring on them. One of the most common scenarios is that you have two PCs that you dedicate to this function and they stay powered off most of the time. You power them up for a special event and find that the network throughput is dismal. Then you find out that they are downloading updates.
Ed WA4YIH
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:58 AM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
The subject was how to use 2 ID-1s without a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
Leon K8ZAG
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Leon,
?
Two ID-1s on the same channel just act as a Ethernet Hub. What goes in one side comes out the other.
?
And that’s a very important thing to remember, many Ethernet connections have a lot of background traffic occurring on them. One of the most common scenarios
is that you have two PCs that you dedicate to this function and they stay powered off most of the time. You power them up for a special event and find that the network throughput is dismal. Then you find out that they are downloading updates.
?
Ed WA4YIH
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: D-STAR_23cm@... [mailto:D-STAR_23cm@...]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:58 AM
To: D-STAR_23cm@...
Subject: [D-STAR_23cm] ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
?
?
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
?
The subject was????? how to use 2? ?ID-1s without?a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
?
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
?
Leon? K8ZAG
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Hi All,
I just changed the permissions of
so that any one with the below links can view the site. It was created
just to stash the wiki when we had to move it. there is a note on the
main page with a pointer to the current NCR D-STAR Association web site
which happens to be down for maintenance this weekend.
73, tom w7sua
toggle quoted message
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On 1/16/2015 1:05 PM, wb9qzb_groups@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote: I think you may be thinking about Bent Pipe repeating with two ID-1s.
The link below should have some information.
73, Mark, WB9QZB
Google Sites
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Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
Well, two different things.
Not using a DD mode access point and a "bent pipe" relay.
You can just hook up a pair of ID-1s to make a link. One hooks to your
router ( make sure is in auto sensing port) and the other at the remote
site connected to a computer.
Using four ID-1s you can build a two step path using two of the ID-1s at
a location that is reachable from both far ID-1s. Just connect those two
middle ID-1s to a auto sensing switch and make sure that the two pairs
of ID-1s are on different frequencies and have the proper call signs in
their headers. We used this in the Marine Corps Marathon to relay to
distant aid stations that could not get the access point while dropping
service at the relay point. Was not really proper for us to call it a
bent pipe as the signals were decoded and recoded at the relay point.
But was a convenient short hand for us. Real bent pipe just has some
antennas, filters and amplifiers at the relay point.
Also works fine without an access point and just a router on the end
with internet point. Access point needed when you have more than one
distant station otherwise your internet connected router needs an ID-1
for each out station.
We created those files you referenced when we were getting ready to use
the ID-1s for the Marine Corps Marathon back when the ID-1s were first
for sale. Looks like we did not set them up to be world readable as we
have been getting weekly requests for access this past month. Need to
look at making site openly readable. Was just a place the wiki files
were stashed before the currently supported NCR D-STAR Association site
was created.
73, tom w7sua ( former n4zpt)
co-owner of google site referenced below.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/16/2015 1:05 PM, wb9qzb_groups@... [D-STAR_23cm] wrote: I think you may be thinking about Bent Pipe repeating with two ID-1s.
The link below should have some information.
73, Mark, WB9QZB
Google Sites
Google Sites Thinking of creating a website? Google Sites is a free and easy way to create and share webpages.
View on sites.google.com
Preview by Yahoo
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
I think you may be thinking about Bent Pipe repeating with two ID-1s.?
The link below should have some information.?
73, Mark, WB9QZB
| | | | | | Thinking of creating a website? Google Sites is a free and easy way to create and share webpages. | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ??
|
Re: ID-1 to ID-1 and internet connection
IIRC you just do it..
Radio A gets connected to a routers LAN port. Radio B gets connected to the laptop LAN port.
A dhcp session will be initiated by the laptop, travel over star to the router which will then respond with the relevant details.
Normal half duplex traffic can then happen such as web surfing and console sessions. Streaming is not possible due to the aggressive nature of UDP but some have said it works.
At one time someone published a file which is not on this yahoo group.
The subject was????? how to use 2? ?ID-1s without?a repeater and connect one to the internet and the other being able to access the web.
Does anyone have info to accomplish this ?
Leon? K8ZAG
|
