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Date

Re: Farhan on SolderSmoke videos

 

Allison,
One thing that has always troubled me was, why would a crystal oscillator me noisier than a free running LC oscillator? My claim is based on my own observations, perhaps I got unlucky here.
It appears counter intuitive. Crystal oscillators are more stable and hence they should have been less noisier.


On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 9:22 PM ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...> wrote:
Basic answer is that the 5351 has higher phase noise (jitter).
ITs adequate for HF use but at higher frequencies where the ambient
and galactic noise are lower it handicaps the receiver performance.
This is old news.

The Si570 is roughly 10x lower jitter ans as a result less phase noise.

Compared to a good crystal or VFO they are an order of magnitude nosier.
The price paid for stability and digital tuning.

--
Allison
------------------
Please use the forum, offline and private will go to bit bucket.


Re: Farhan on SolderSmoke videos

 

Basic answer is that the 5351 has higher phase noise (jitter).
ITs adequate for HF use but at higher frequencies where the ambient
and galactic noise are lower it handicaps the receiver performance.
This is old news.

The Si570 is roughly 10x lower jitter ans as a result less phase noise.

Compared to a good crystal or VFO they are an order of magnitude nosier.
The price paid for stability and digital tuning.

--
Allison
------------------
Please use the forum, offline and private will go to bit bucket.


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Dave,

The difference is in how the Antuino works and measures frequencies.? ?In the case where you are measuring the passband of the filter, the Antunio has control of the stimulus frequency, stepping it through the range specified.? Since it is a narrow frequency, the width of the receiving filter is not an issue as the input is very narrow.? When used as a spectrum analyzer, the width of the input filter does affect the measured response.? As I had stated before, the resolution bandwidth (RBW) of the Antunio used as a spectrum analyzer is 3KHz.? This will widen the perceived signal as you scan the frequency range.

73
Evan
AC9TU


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

开云体育

Great news !!


On Nov 7, 2023, at 14:52, DaveW, KL7HJF <david@...> wrote:

?Evan,
Thanks for the updated diagrams.
I'm still puzzled by the wide BFO signal as plotted on my Antuino (in my previous post).
But the main thing is that the radio seems to be working, now. (Thank you all.)


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Evan,
Thanks for the updated diagrams.
I'm still puzzled by the wide BFO signal as plotted on my Antuino (in my previous post).
But the main thing is that the radio seems to be working, now. (Thank you all.)


Re: eoryRe: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Dave WD8AJQ,
Thank you for suggesting CHu Canada.
Unfortunately, I tuned to those frequencies and heard nothing. After a little reading, it seems that the CHu transmitters are relatively low power (compared to WWV) and located farther away, in eastern Canada. Since they are not received well in western Canada, they are not of much help in Alaska. But I was not aware of this station before, and I appreciate the information.

By the way, I just updated my QRZ.com page. The biography section mentions my Bible based website. Since it is largely text, I think you would find it very accessible.
73
DaveW


Re: POC: CECV2 using an OEM V6 TFT display...

 

All this work is open source, including the board designs. github in my sig below is where all the repositories are. At the moment, I still consider the boards pre-beta. I am hoping that I am getting to a point where the designs are stable. Currently, the Pico based board is re-spinning because of display headers pin connections were incorrect. It is also (fingers crossed) the first board that will have a TX/RX external signal that can trigger a RX/TX switch or perhaps an amp.

At this point, my plan is to have JLCPCB pre-mount the SMT devices on a small number of "beta" boards. That will just leave the various sockets and headers for folks to assemble themselves. Probably start with the Pico beause it is so inexpensive.? But probably will not get to this point until after the holidays. Will look for volunteers then. This is a hobby for me. If the boards are any good (I am a software guy, not a hardware designer), perhaps one of the various vendors here will take the boards on and offer them.

73
Mark

--
AJ6CU/7
KD8CEC 2.0, Nextion Screens,? and open source uBITX Raduino boards for Arduino IOT, BLE, RP2040, Teensy 4.0, and Raspberry Pi Pico
https://github.com/aj6cu


Re: POC: CECV2 using an OEM V6 TFT display...

 

Mark,

The boards and display looks Beautiful!!!!!!.

73
David
ac9xh


Re: POC: CECV2 using an OEM V6 TFT display...

 

Mark,

Do you have a website with this listed?

Also? when you get some complete assemblies ready email me . Im in for at least one.

73
David
ac9xh


POC: CECV2 using an OEM V6 TFT display...

 

Hi,

Have a proof of concept (POC) of the the V2 beta driving a "standard" v6 tft display. I am using the LVGL (lvgl.io) tool kit and the GUI was designed using their SquareLine Studio GUI builder. None of this fits on a Nano, so the board (see photo) is one of my designs that uses a Teensy 4. Also had this working on a PICO design but I am re-spinning the board because I messed up the Display header pins. Haven't checked this out on the Teensy 4.1 board design yet.

BTW: these boards also support the Nextion screens too and mechanically compatible with the HF Signals V6 Raduinos so they will just slip into V6 cases. There are also V3,V4,V5 mechanically compatible boards.

Still a *lot* of work to get this in production, probably not until Spring of next year. I am currently troubleshooting some interaction between the Teensy USB port and the encoder. Calibration is also not right as there is a drift horizontally on touch points. Not sure if this a calibration error or some issue with the LVGL toolkit.

The Nextions made the original KD8CEC software viable with the Nano. But with faster processors and more memory, we can eliminate the $ premium for the Nextion.

Anyway, enjoy the photos below!


--


73
Mark
AJ6CU/7
KD8CEC 2.0, Nextion Screens,? and open source uBITX Raduino boards for Arduino IOT, BLE, RP2040, Teensy 4.0, and Raspberry Pi Pico
https://github.com/aj6cu


Re: eoryRe: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

开云体育

Hello:?

Where you are located at in Alaska, you might be able to use CHU time station for your calibration reference.?

A time station reference I used in years past is CHu Canada.
You can find them on:
3.33 MHZ
7.85 MHZ?
14.67 MHZ

Their 7.335 MHZ frequency is no more.
As a Blind Ham, I use to used this frequency to find the top edge of 40 meters on either a Heath HW 100 or Drake TR7.
I would first find Chu. 7.335 MHZ
Then, rotate the tuning dial counter clockwise 2 revolution. This would put me below the top of 40 meters. With the Ubitx V6 & Reed BN’s firmware that speaks the screen in Morse code makes this old CHU method no longer needed.
?? ?
73 Dave WD8AJQ?

SE?

On Nov 6, 2023, at 6:59 PM, DaveW, KL7HJF <david@...> wrote:

?I appreciate the help offered by every one who has explained the theory and suggested methods of calibration and ways to verify it.

It looks like I have succeeded in improving things, with minimal test equipment. (However, I will investigate the test devices which you have suggested.)

The diagram from Evan is helpful, because it roughly corresponds with what I see, now that things are nearly where they should be. See my diagram below. This was drawn from two separate spectrum plots, as done with an Antuino.
I expected to see a much narrower BFO clock, which would be positioned near the upper end of the crystal filter passband. (Below the diagram, my comments continue.)
<spectrum.png>

Further comments:
The HFsignals online BFO calibration tool is helpful for getting things aligned well enough to receive something. However, as I see it, it is rather imprecise and subjective. The positioning of the noise pedestals is subject to the user's judgment. The background noise may differ substantially in various regions or environments. I could not get a well defined pedestal at the low end of the spectrum. When I set things as closely as I could, to match the online demonstration, my radio was not differentiating sidebands, and was transmitting RF in the absence of audio modulation. Now that things seem to be tuned correctly, the displayed noise is much stronger in the mid to high end of the 300 - 3000 Hertz range than it appears in Ashhar's demo.

With the help which you all offered, and with hints found elsewhere on the forum, here's what I did:
1. Perform the normal BFO calibration (with antenna connected, and with receiver tuned to noise, not signal).
2. Adjust BFO calibration while listening to an SSB signal, for best audio clarity. Start with a USB signal. Repeat with an LSB signal. (If using KD8CEC firmware, ensure IF Shift function is Off.)
3. Calibrate the receiver frequency, to a known strong signal... Preferably, one of the WWV frequencies (2.5, 5, 10, 15, or 20 Mhz). However, the WWV signals have a long way to come to reach me in Alaska. Therefore, multiple skip paths often confuse attempts to find zero-beat. Occasionally, I have found a strong HF broadcast signal, without much fade. Then the trick is to know the station frequency. (I have been advised to buy a 10 Mhz frequency standard, to avoid propagation issues. But that has yet to happen.)
4. Recheck BFO calibration (step 2.)
5. Adjust CW BFO calibration (not on all systems, but included in KD8CEC firmware). I have not yet done this. But I think it involves listening for best reception of CW signals in both CWU and CWL (as was done for SSB, in step 2).?
6. Verify correct sideband. A few other posts suggested tuning to 7074 Khz in the evening in USB mode. If propagation is good, you should hear FT8 signals. You should hear nothing in LSB mode. If signals are present in LSB mode (not USB), the sidebands are reversed. Using the same procedure, verify CWL and CWU are not reversed (signal should be heard only in CWU).
7. With the microphone disconnected, transmit SSB into a dummy load and monitor power output. (Key the transmitter from the mic jack, not from the keyer jack). There should be no output power. Check both LSB and USB.

Hopefully, that should do it. (I have put the original BAT45 diode back in place.)
Thank you all.


Re: Farhan on SolderSmoke videos

 

Thanks Allison,
I had not noticed Si570 was used, so that makes sence :-)

Interresting to hear that SI5351 is less ideal at 2 mtr. Do you have more information about that?

Thanks
Chris


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Dave,

You did not misinterpret the information.? It is my error.? I will blame it on faulty memory on my part.? The BFO is BELOW the signal.? I need to invert all diagrams to match what is being done in the uBitx.

I have updated the diagrams to show the correct relationships.

Sorry for the misinformation.? I will delete the post with the incorrect diagrams.

73
Evan
AC9TU


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

It looks like I miss-interpreted Evan's diagrams, which show the BFO Clock frequency above the crystal filter upper edge, and the received signal overlaying the filter spectrum.

My diagram shows the clock covering the entire filter spectrum. Presumably, this is due to limitations of the Antuino, since the radio appears to have normal function now.


Re: eoryRe: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Gordon,
The title line was accidentally corrupted. I tried to delete this post because it started a new topic.
I put a similar post at the end of the original topic.

In answer to your question: Yes, I do hear FT8 on 7074 Khz on USB, not LSB.


Re: Farhan on SolderSmoke videos

 

I just downloaded the files.

FYI the schematic has more than a few errors, lines ji=ned that should not be
and other drawing errors.

Why crystal BFO, simple the SI570 is a single DPLL, the 5351 is less than ideal at 2m
but it can produce multiple outputs as typically used at HF.

--
Allison
------------------
Please use the forum, offline and private will go to bit bucket.


Re: eoryRe: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Did it work?? ?Do you hear FT8 on USB at 7074 and not on LSB?



On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 6:59?PM DaveW, KL7HJF <david@...> wrote:
I appreciate the help offered by every one who has explained the theory and suggested methods of calibration and ways to verify it.

It looks like I have succeeded in improving things, with minimal test equipment. (However, I will investigate the test devices which you have suggested.)

The diagram from Evan is helpful, because it roughly corresponds with what I see, now that things are nearly where they should be. See my diagram below. This was drawn from two separate spectrum plots, as done with an Antuino.
I expected to see a much narrower BFO clock, which would be positioned near the upper end of the crystal filter passband. (Below the diagram, my comments continue.)

Further comments:
The HFsignals online BFO calibration tool is helpful for getting things aligned well enough to receive something. However, as I see it, it is rather imprecise and subjective. The positioning of the noise pedestals is subject to the user's judgment. The background noise may differ substantially in various regions or environments. I could not get a well defined pedestal at the low end of the spectrum. When I set things as closely as I could, to match the online demonstration, my radio was not differentiating sidebands, and was transmitting RF in the absence of audio modulation. Now that things seem to be tuned correctly, the displayed noise is much stronger in the mid to high end of the 300 - 3000 Hertz range than it appears in Ashhar's demo.

With the help which you all offered, and with hints found elsewhere on the forum, here's what I did:
1. Perform the normal BFO calibration (with antenna connected, and with receiver tuned to noise, not signal).
2. Adjust BFO calibration while listening to an SSB signal, for best audio clarity. Start with a USB signal. Repeat with an LSB signal. (If using KD8CEC firmware, ensure IF Shift function is Off.)
3. Calibrate the receiver frequency, to a known strong signal... Preferably, one of the WWV frequencies (2.5, 5, 10, 15, or 20 Mhz). However, the WWV signals have a long way to come to reach me in Alaska. Therefore, multiple skip paths often confuse attempts to find zero-beat. Occasionally, I have found a strong HF broadcast signal, without much fade. Then the trick is to know the station frequency. (I have been advised to buy a 10 Mhz frequency standard, to avoid propagation issues. But that has yet to happen.)
4. Recheck BFO calibration (step 2.)
5. Adjust CW BFO calibration (not on all systems, but included in KD8CEC firmware). I have not yet done this. But I think it involves listening for best reception of CW signals in both CWU and CWL (as was done for SSB, in step 2).?
6. Verify correct sideband. A few other posts suggested tuning to 7074 Khz in the evening in USB mode. If propagation is good, you should hear FT8 signals. You should hear nothing in LSB mode. If signals are present in LSB mode (not USB), the sidebands are reversed. Using the same procedure, verify CWL and CWU are not reversed (signal should be heard only in CWU).
7. With the microphone disconnected, transmit SSB into a dummy load and monitor power output. (Key the transmitter from the mic jack, not from the keyer jack). There should be no output power. Check both LSB and USB.

Hopefully, that should do it. (I have put the original BAT45 diode back in place.)
Thank you all.


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Hello to all. Thank you for the many suggestions and combined experience.
I just completed a lengthy post, which accidentally started a new topic (title line got corrupted). Therefore, I deleted it, and reproduced it here.

It looks like my problem is mostly resolved. There are still some minor adjustments to make.

Evan, Your diagrams are similar to what I have ended up with. The attached diagram was drawn from two separate plots on the Antuino. I was expecting the Clock #0 signal to be much narrower than shown, and that it would be positioned near the upper end of the crystal filter passband. (A few posts mentioned better test equipment. I used what I have. But I will look into the alternatives suggested.)

My observation is that the HF signals online BFO calibration tool is helpful, but not precise. It is subject to the user's perception of where the noise pedestals should be placed. The background noise in various regions and environments vary substantially. I was not able to get a well pronounced noise pedestal at the low end of the spectrum. Now, that things seem to be corrected, the noise spectrum still does not match Ashhar's demo.

With the help of all of you who shared insights and experience, and with a few tidbits found elsewhere on the forum, here is what I did:
1. Perform BFO calibration according to Ashhar's demo (antenna connected, receiver tuned to noise not signal). This enables the receiver to pass a signal. But although I had done this procedure several times, the receiver was not differentiating LSB and USB. Also, the transmitter, in SSB mode, had 3 watts RF output in the absence of audio modulation.
2. Adjust BFO calibration while listening to SSB signals (antenna connected, receiver tuned to SSB signal,.with the receiver in the BFO calibration mode). Adjust the BFO settings for the best USB audio. Do the same with an LSB signal. (If using KD8CEC firmware, ensure "IF Shift" is Off.)
3. Calibrate the receiver frequency, for zero-beat on a known signal. My preference is WWV, but multiple signal paths (do to long propagation distance) often cause difficulty with finding zero-beat. A strong HF broadcast station, without much fade, may work better.
4. Recheck BFO calibration (step 2.).
5. Adjust CW BFO (not on all systems, but included in KD8CEC firmware). I have not done this yet. But I think it involves listening to a good CW signal, and adjusting for best clarity (as done for SSB in step 2.)
6. Verify sidebands are correct (not reversed). Other posts recommend tuning to 7074 Khz, in USB mode. If propagation allows (better in evening), you should hear FT8 signals in USB mode (but not in LSB mode). Also verify CWL and CWU are correct (FT8 audible in CWU mode only).
7. Verify correct transmit operation. Disconnect microphone. Transmit into a dummy load, monitor RF power output. Key the transmitter from the mic jack, not from the keyer jack. There should be no RF output in the absence of audio input. Repeat test in both USB and LSB.
(If steps 6 or 7 are incorrect, further BFO adjustment is required.)

It looks like things are about where they should be, now.
Thank you all.


Re: uBitxV6 SSB transmit has RF out with no audio input, voice distorted when present

 

Hello Andrea,

The SSB filter is nominally 2.7KHz wide.? For audio, it is customary that the low-frequency point would be 300Hz.? For the tests that I have done with the RSP1A, I used a single and dual-tone audio input of 700Hz and 1900Hz.? For the single tone, I use the 1900Hz so that I know it truly is the carrier getting through.? I have also measured without any audio and compared the two values.

The best I could get was a -30DB difference to the tone signal.? That is not as good a result as I would like, but it is acceptable.? The tradeoff is a tinier sound on both transmit and receive.? Setting the BFO lower will lower the min and max audio tones to a point, then you get past the low tone skirt and just cut off the high frequencies.?

73
Evan
AC9TU


Re: Farhan on SolderSmoke videos

 

For some unknown reason, the schematic could no longer be downloaded by me...

I remember that the BFO signal was not generated by the SI5351 but by an crystal oscillator. What is (or could be) the reason for that?

Thanks,
Chris PA3CRX