Could you just get the ic,s fitted make the rest home assembly would that help cut the costs chris

On 12 Jan 2018 21:57, "Diver Martin" <diver.martin@...> wrote:

So, good news, bad news.

Good news: I got a BoM together, defined all the parts, etc.

Bad news:? The BoM (majority single unit pricing from Digikey, but I took out gross single-part costs like 0603 capacitors/resistors/etc) is $112.? This might vary from half to 3/4 depending on the volume, so $60 to $90 or something.? Without knowing the volumes I'd do, it's hard to define.

Good news:? I have a vendor in town that will assemble the boards.

Bad news:? It's about $1 a part to place it on the PCB in a prototype run.? There are 147 SMT parts, assuming the person buying the board installs all TH components, toroids, etc.? That's $150 a PCB for assembly worst case.? In prototype quantities, I was told $1 per part (RoHS $1.20) (qty 1-10 boards).? Past assemblies I've heard down from $0.1 per part to $0.25 per part, so I'm not quite sure where to go on that front, as it's also volume dependant I believe.? I've put out a few pings to those I know who've gotten things built up for a better guestimate, but for now, I'll go with the pessimistic $1/part.

So... Assuming a good case of $75 for the BoM, $10 for the PCB, $15-$150 for assembly, $10 shipping, not including the $500 NRE or my initial builds (so tack on $10 there too assuming a run of 100 PCB's).? Soooo... $110 to $250 is the current price bracket that I've got, the major uncertainty in the cost of per-part placement / assembly.

#1 cost item:? Relays for the tuner and other things ($35)

#2 cost item:? Teensy3.2 ($20)

#3 cost item:? Minicircuits mixer ($3.15)

#4 cost item:? 20-turn precision pots ($3 total, eliminate final design)

For those who wish to peruse...? A BoM is attached.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:39 PM, Martin Held <diver.martin@...> wrote:

So, I've finally got a rough draft of what I'm thinking for my uBitx top PCB mod.? Features at this point are:

No modifications required to uBitx board itself (not to say a 470uF anti-pop mod might be bad, or other things couldn't be done)

ATU: 7-inductor, 8-capacitor with Hi-Z/Lo-Z switch.

Selectable Power output (two power input connectors)

Brain transplant:? Teensy3.2 96MHz ARM processor

All connections on side edges - no wiring to enclosure

Front panel with pushbutton switches

DSP Audio (Via Teensy32, would require headphones or amplified speakers)

Solderless AGC modification (Attenuator at the front end switched in during RX)

Realtime clock (via Teensy32)

Linear amplifier control (just a reed relay on a 3.5mm header, sorry, not an RCA, but you could easily change it...)

Top side only construction (would make assembly cost lower)

BoM cost:? Probably way higher than it should be.? Needs optimization, and I still need to enter in costs.

Complexity:? Probably way more than it should be.

Layout:? An ugly mess of routing.? I can't say I like it, but the constraints I put on myself made it really hard to route.? There's lots of open areas to cross with lots of signals going all different directions.

Picture of the layout and schematic PDF attached, along with a 3D view.

I think the one modification that I still need to consider is a microphone preamp.? But, I have no flippin' clue where on the PCB I'd put the gain control knob!? Might have to be an internal potentiometer....

--

Martin Held - AE7EU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there aren't any questions, then what is there to learn?

--

Martin Held - AE7EU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there aren't any questions, then what is there to learn?

So, good news, bad news.

Good news: I got a BoM together, defined all the parts, etc.

Bad news:? The BoM (majority single unit pricing from Digikey, but I took out gross single-part costs like 0603 capacitors/resistors/etc) is $112.? This might vary from half to 3/4 depending on the volume, so $60 to $90 or something.? Without knowing the volumes I'd do, it's hard to define.

Good news:? I have a vendor in town that will assemble the boards.

Bad news:? It's about $1 a part to place it on the PCB in a prototype run.? There are 147 SMT parts, assuming the person buying the board installs all TH components, toroids, etc.? That's $150 a PCB for assembly worst case.? In prototype quantities, I was told $1 per part (RoHS $1.20) (qty 1-10 boards).? Past assemblies I've heard down from $0.1 per part to $0.25 per part, so I'm not quite sure where to go on that front, as it's also volume dependant I believe.? I've put out a few pings to those I know who've gotten things built up for a better guestimate, but for now, I'll go with the pessimistic $1/part.

So... Assuming a good case of $75 for the BoM, $10 for the PCB, $15-$150 for assembly, $10 shipping, not including the $500 NRE or my initial builds (so tack on $10 there too assuming a run of 100 PCB's).? Soooo... $110 to $250 is the current price bracket that I've got, the major uncertainty in the cost of per-part placement / assembly.

#1 cost item:? Relays for the tuner and other things ($35)

#2 cost item:? Teensy3.2 ($20)

#3 cost item:? Minicircuits mixer ($3.15)

#4 cost item:? 20-turn precision pots ($3 total, eliminate final design)

For those who wish to peruse...? A BoM is attached.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:39 PM, Martin Held <diver.martin@...> wrote:

So, I've finally got a rough draft of what I'm thinking for my uBitx top PCB mod.? Features at this point are:

No modifications required to uBitx board itself (not to say a 470uF anti-pop mod might be bad, or other things couldn't be done)

ATU: 7-inductor, 8-capacitor with Hi-Z/Lo-Z switch.

Selectable Power output (two power input connectors)

Brain transplant:? Teensy3.2 96MHz ARM processor

All connections on side edges - no wiring to enclosure

Front panel with pushbutton switches

DSP Audio (Via Teensy32, would require headphones or amplified speakers)

Solderless AGC modification (Attenuator at the front end switched in during RX)

Realtime clock (via Teensy32)

Linear amplifier control (just a reed relay on a 3.5mm header, sorry, not an RCA, but you could easily change it...)

Top side only construction (would make assembly cost lower)

BoM cost:? Probably way higher than it should be.? Needs optimization, and I still need to enter in costs.

Complexity:? Probably way more than it should be.

Layout:? An ugly mess of routing.? I can't say I like it, but the constraints I put on myself made it really hard to route.? There's lots of open areas to cross with lots of signals going all different directions.

Picture of the layout and schematic PDF attached, along with a 3D view.

I think the one modification that I still need to consider is a microphone preamp.? But, I have no flippin' clue where on the PCB I'd put the gain control knob!? Might have to be an internal potentiometer....

--

Martin Held - AE7EU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there aren't any questions, then what is there to learn?

--

Martin Held - AE7EU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there aren't any questions, then what is there to learn?

The reason that most of these shops in China that sell on eBay are able to offer free shipping is that the Chinese?
Government subsidizes shipping to help promote eCommerce.?

Michael VE3WMB?

So, I've finally got a rough draft of what I'm thinking for my uBitx top PCB mod.? Features at this point are:

No modifications required to uBitx board itself (not to say a 470uF anti-pop mod might be bad, or other things couldn't be done)

ATU: 7-inductor, 8-capacitor with Hi-Z/Lo-Z switch.

Selectable Power output (two power input connectors)

Brain transplant:? Teensy3.2 96MHz ARM processor

All connections on side edges - no wiring to enclosure

Front panel with pushbutton switches

DSP Audio (Via Teensy32, would require headphones or amplified speakers)

Solderless AGC modification (Attenuator at the front end switched in during RX)

Realtime clock (via Teensy32)

Linear amplifier control (just a reed relay on a 3.5mm header, sorry, not an RCA, but you could easily change it...)

Top side only construction (would make assembly cost lower)

BoM cost:? Probably way higher than it should be.? Needs optimization, and I still need to enter in costs.

Complexity:? Probably way more than it should be.

Layout:? An ugly mess of routing.? I can't say I like it, but the constraints I put on myself made it really hard to route.? There's lots of open areas to cross with lots of signals going all different directions.

Picture of the layout and schematic PDF attached, along with a 3D view.

I think the one modification that I still need to consider is a microphone preamp.? But, I have no flippin' clue where on the PCB I'd put the gain control knob!? Might have to be an internal potentiometer....

--

Martin Held - AE7EU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there aren't any questions, then what is there to learn?

Al and I have talked about it and this might have two flavors:

????1. Just the PCB. There are a lot of people on this site who simply enjoy gathering parts, populating the board, and the smell of solder in the morning.

??? 2. Plug-and-Play. Plug in the cables from the new board into the ?BITX and turn it on. Done. Right now, we're not far enough along to sell it to a manufacturer.

The first option is kind of a bugaboo because a lot of builders still haven't embraced SMD construction, but we think from a cost standpoint, they make a lot of sense.? (We want the entire system, including the ?BITX, to cost under $200.) The second option will require that the manufacturer allow it to still remain an Open Source project. I don't even know if anyone out there exists who would let that happen. If not, option 2 is no longer viable as we really want it Open Source.

If anyone does not have a PC but wants to experiment with any of the Arduino family of ?C, check with your local high school, Junior college, University, or whatever's physics lab to see if they would let you use their PC. Many have the Arduino IDE already installed on a system and would likely let you use it for long enough to compile/upload the code. I had one guy at a recent hamfest tell me his library has the IDE installed! In any case, it doesn't hurt to ask.

Jack, W8TEE

---

From: chris gress <Chrisg0wfh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?

When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded chris

On 12 Jan 2018 20:15, "Jack Purdum via Groups.Io" <jjpurdum=[email protected]> wrote:

Arv:

Agree with all that you said. Obviously, that won't solve all issues but test points and the additional mile that Hans has gone raises the bar for everyone. Our VFT/TFT board for the BITX40 has a number of test points, with holes for pins, silk screened onto the board (e.g., TP2). Alas, I can't tell you how many emails I got saying "Part TP2 marked on the board isn't listed in the BOM". Ya can't win...

You're absolutely spot-on with the comment about running out of I/O pins, which is why our board brings all of the unused Mega 2560 I/O pins out for experimentation. Al Peter, AC8GY, and I are redoing the board for the ?BITX since it has so many features plus the AD9850 II is now stupidly priced. (BTW, this source has them listed for $12.30: .) The new board is going to stick with the Si5351. We are a LONG way off from having anything even ready for testing, but we are watching what's going on with everyone here very closely. We will definitely have more test points on the board (and a note in the manual telling what they are!) and maybe even try for some of the features Hans has added to the bar.

Is this fun stuff or what?

Jack, W8TEE

---

From: Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?

Michael?? KM4OLT

A possibly better approach seems to be on the horizon from several fledgling ham

radio kit designers.? QRP-Labs has included digital voltmeter capability in the QCX

transceiver that can be configured to monitor strategic points.? Enhancement of that

built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.? This requires a
significant number of digital and analog inputs to the micro-controller.? This may
force migration to something like the Arduino Mega-2560 board with its 50-plus
inputs and outputs, and a small price increase to support that action.? The larger
processor would also increase amount of memory available for software to support
testing and additional features.

Of course that does not help if the control system is the problem.? For this your idea

of returning to documented test points may be a good idea.? Maybe it would suffice

to silk-screen test points as being connections to specific parts of installed components.

That would point to appropriate places to test without the cost and real-estate

requirement of adding hardware for connection pins and pads.

Arv? K7HKL
_._

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Michael Monteith via Groups.Io <michael_r_monteith=yahoo.com@ groups.io> wrote:

?? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc to test from.?? Then people could install these:
?? If you didn't install the pins at least you have a labeled reference point.? That would help in maybe establishing a stable troubleshooting and testing guide if one gets written.? Having not to manage holding meter leads and scope probes to small components with the chance of slipping would make them valuable too.? It would be nice to clip your scope probes on and have hands free to adjust knobs etc.

?73, Michael
KM4OLT

?Chris -- surely there is SOMEONE not too far from you who can put an update on your firmware.....what state or nation are you in?

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of chris gress <Chrisg0wfh@...>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?

?

When these boards are done and tested will you be able to buy them all programmed up ready to go for the likes of us who don't have a PC I not in a rush as I am on pre order for my micro bitx like my poor bitx's I have 3 never going to get upgraded chris

On 12 Jan 2018 20:15, "Jack Purdum via Groups.Io" <jjpurdum=[email protected]> wrote:

Arv:

Agree with all that you said. Obviously, that won't solve all issues but test points and the additional mile that Hans has gone raises the bar for everyone. Our VFT/TFT board for the BITX40 has a number of test points, with holes for pins, silk screened onto the board (e.g., TP2). Alas, I can't tell you how many emails I got saying "Part TP2 marked on the board isn't listed in the BOM". Ya can't win...

You're absolutely spot-on with the comment about running out of I/O pins, which is why our board brings all of the unused Mega 2560 I/O pins out for experimentation. Al Peter, AC8GY, and I are redoing the board for the ?BITX since it has so many features plus the AD9850 II is now stupidly priced. (BTW, this source has them listed for $12.30: .) The new board is going to stick with the Si5351. We are a LONG way off from having anything even ready for testing, but we are watching what's going on with everyone here very closely. We will definitely have more test points on the board (and a note in the manual telling what they are!) and maybe even try for some of the features Hans has added to the bar.

Is this fun stuff or what?

Jack, W8TEE

---

From: Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] PCB Test Points?

Michael?? KM4OLT

A possibly better approach seems to be on the horizon from several fledgling ham

radio kit designers.? QRP-Labs has included digital voltmeter capability in the QCX

transceiver that can be configured to monitor strategic points.? Enhancement of that

built-in-test-equipment may be the new future of ham radio kits.? This requires a
significant number of digital and analog inputs to the micro-controller.? This may
force migration to something like the Arduino Mega-2560 board with its 50-plus
inputs and outputs, and a small price increase to support that action.? The larger
processor would also increase amount of memory available for software to support
testing and additional features.

Of course that does not help if the control system is the problem.? For this your idea

of returning to documented test points may be a good idea.? Maybe it would suffice

to silk-screen test points as being connections to specific parts of installed components.

That would point to appropriate places to test without the cost and real-estate

requirement of adding hardware for connection pins and pads.

Arv? K7HKL
_._

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Michael Monteith via Groups.Io <michael_r_monteith=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

?? I wonder if extra pads could be added to future boards to install test points?? That might make it easier to have strategic test points to check levels and have a common reference point.? Instead trying to specify which end of a capacitor, coil, etc to test from.?? Then people could install these:
?? If you didn't install the pins at least you have a labeled reference point.? That would help in maybe establishing a stable troubleshooting and testing guide if one gets written.? Having not to manage holding meter leads and scope probes to small components with the chance of slipping would make them valuable too.? It would be nice to clip your scope probes on and have hands free to adjust knobs etc.

?73, Michael
KM4OLT

Martin

In examining your circuit more carefully, I wonder if you could explain how the AGC works?? The mixer chip appears to be unbalanced by a DC signal from the AGC circuit (derived from the volume control input). However, ?I don’t understand why you are injecting this into the IF output of the transformer and why the input from the antenna is taken to the LO input.? It looks like a design idea that could be used more widely on Bitx designs and won’t require track cutting ...

Mike ZL1AXG

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 at 7:42 PM, Diver Martin <diver.martin@...> wrote:

So, I've finally got a rough draft of what I'm thinking for my uBitx top PCB mod.? Features at this point are:

No modifications required to uBitx board itself (not to say a 470uF anti-pop mod might be bad, or other things couldn't be done)

ATU: 7-inductor, 8-capacitor with Hi-Z/Lo-Z switch.

Selectable Power output (two power input connectors)

Brain transplant:? Teensy3.2 96MHz ARM processor

All connections on side edges - no wiring to enclosure

Front panel with pushbutton switches

DSP Audio (Via Teensy32, would require headphones or amplified speakers)

Solderless AGC modification (Attenuator at the front end switched in during RX)

Realtime clock (via Teensy32)

Linear amplifier control (just a reed relay on a 3.5mm header, sorry, not an RCA, but you could easily change it...)

Top side only construction (would make assembly cost lower)

BoM cost:? Probably way higher than it should be.? Needs optimization, and I still need to enter in costs.

Complexity:? Probably way more than it should be.

Layout:? An ugly mess of routing.? I can't say I like it, but the constraints I put on myself made it really hard to route.? There's lots of open areas to cross with lots of signals going all different directions.

Picture of the layout and schematic PDF attached, along with a 3D view.

I think the one modification that I still need to consider is a microphone preamp.? But, I have no flippin' clue where on the PCB I'd put the gain control knob!? Might have to be an internal potentiometer....

--

Martin Held - AE7EU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there aren't any questions, then what is there to learn?