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Compassion and accountability aren't mutually exclusive.? We've been instilled with fear that if we don't "correct" our child's inappropriate behavior (whatever that is) we're somehow condoning it.? Compassion first.? When we do that, the accountability nearly always takes care of itself.??

Ah, I remember that!! I will try to look for it but I know exactly the “imagine if” story perspective?you were talking about and it was very impactful for me as well. It may have been with another scenario imagining if your husband/partner thought the best way for you to use your time at that moment was for you to stop what you were doing a go clean bird poop off the roof or something - like it felt important to them but seemed TOTALLY UNNCECESSARY to you & how our kids feel that sometimes.?

I found this:

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One of my epiphanies as a parent actually came when I realized I was not being as good a friend to my own kids as I was to my adult friends. Changing that made a world of difference.—尝测濒补?奥辞濒蹿别苍蝉迟别颈苍

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On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 11:33 PM, Jennifer Moore wrote:

Might it have been in the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk", Faber & Mazlish?

I like a lot of the ideas in that book.? Some unschoolers don't like it.? But she's asking about some things in unschooling discussions.

Karen, I looked for something Pam Sorooshian wrote about not going on and on, and just saying "towel" if a kid dropped a wet towel, but she was talking about someone coming in from the pool, casually not hanging a towel up.? Your question is about a child in an emotional state, being expressive by dropping a coat and dropping onto the couch dramatically.

That wouldn't be a good time to nag about hanging clothes up.? The child is upset about something, and came where you were!? How would you treat a friend, a partner, a spouse?? Your own mom?

I love it when I can find the perfect quote, and I hope someone here will. :-)??

Compassion should some before "training" (if training ever comes), and love should come before nagging.? ?I don't always get it right, and even now with grandkids sometimes I criticize when I could just pick the thing up myself and be cheery.? A kid who sets a cup in a precarious place won't do it every time for life.? Move the cup over and be a nice person (I tell myself).? :-)?

Maybe I looked for what I remembered about picking something up rather than "as if it were an adult friend."? I'll look again tomorrow, if someone else doesn't kindly beat me to it! :-)

Also, just tonight I was thinking of bringing all the chat transcripts from the blog where half or so of them are, back to my site so they'll be searchable.? There have been some good stories told in chats.

Until then (and after), it would be good to think of WHY you want to be kind to someone who is stressed, and how you're making memories, for that child, of either a loving mother or a nagging mother.? People don't always make the better choice, but if they tell themselves it doesn't matter, then they'll NEVER make better choices and take more positive paths!

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Sandra?

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(If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)

Might it have been in the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk", Faber & Mazlish? I haven't re-read that recently, but this story sounds like the kind of thing that _might_ have been in it.

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www.uncharted-worlds.org/blog/
www.single-bass.co.uk/what-is-single-bass
www.single-bass.co.uk/songs

Hi! I am hoping someone can help me find where I read a bit about respect or being your child’s partner. I remember a story or example that went something like this - let’s say your child came home in a huff and slammed the door and threw their coat in the floor and then flopped down on the couch. You then demanded that they go and pick up their coat. Now imagine that was your friend, how would you handle it. - something like that. I would really like to read it again and am not able to find it on Sandra’s website. If anyone can send me a link or remembers where I may have read something like that, I would be very grateful. Thanks!!?

At her work yesterday as a customer service representative,??my 17 y.o. Daughter engaged?in a good?conversation among 30 and 40 y.o. adults?regarding parenting skills they grew up with. As a majority of them were struggling with rebellious kids,?My daughter offered her perspective and absolute happiness?of having a positive relationship with?parents who taught her HOW to think (independently and supported?),?and not WHAT?to think .She gave examples of how she and?her 3?siblings have been given many,?many?choices mixed with a whole?lot of Fun family?conversation about those choices without criticism,?and a lot of fun?laughter during?chats about?how the choices?either?do/don’t work out the way they thought??( how big of a bowl of ice cream , or any food for that matter,?makes them feel well or ill) .??She said?they are all learned personal?experiences?whether it be about personal?opinions, food choices, bedtime/waking?choices, ‘helping with chores’?choices ,?learning choices, etc. And the fun thing , she said,?is that it leaves no reason?to rebel because it’s just fun learning and maturing?along the way in an environment of?kindness and?without judgement or criticism when given the choices .?

Come on, don't leave me as the only one who has a story of progression through interests in life that's worth telling!? Share up!??

I'm hoping to create a bigger picture of interests leading to jobs to other jobs to hobbies to skills... even if there's school in the mix.? And the thought and idea that without the school, with unschooling, all of that an happen with more love and less criticism or blockage/thwarting.? With more assistance and encouragement!

This came up because I opened the wrong webpage to edit.? It's from an article that was solicited, and written, but then not published, so my audience was not other unschoolers.? Obscure. :-)??

I loved school when I was young, and became a Jr. High English teacher because it seemed that THIS was where it was at—thinking, writing, helping people discover the magical corners of the big wide world. They even paid me! It wasn’t much money, but I was a real professional, with the job I’d always wanted.

Times, things and people change.

I’m still involved in thinking, writing and discovery, but in more holistic and real-life ways and settings.

Those kids were 6 to 11 in that photo.? They are 29 to 35? today.

Sandra

Reading about Larkin's business has been useful for me as well.? My 12 year old has asked to start selling her digital art, so I need to help her get going with that.

We bought her an iPad Pro and Procreate for her birthday.? She was making art on a smartphone with her fingers, so the professional tools have made a huge difference for her.?

She's been putting videos of her drawing process on YouTube, which is cool.

She's had successful entrepreneur experiences in the past.? She sold popsicles at Life Is Good a few years in a row when she was around 5-7.? Pre-covid she made slime and sold it a couple of children's business fairs.? She hired her younger siblings to sell at her booth so she wouldn't have to talk to too many people.? She made a profit there even after supplies and paying her siblings and also won a cash prize.?

Sandra wrote:

It's not that I knew where I wanted to go, but I knew what appealed to me, and I managed to work a lot of that energy into my life.

I like this!

It reminds me of a thing I sometimes say about "steering by a compass rather than by a map". Heading towards something, and even if I never actually get where I thought I was going, it ends up taking me through interesting territory :-)

Jennifer

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www.uncharted-worlds.org/blog/
www.single-bass.co.uk/what-is-single-bass
www.single-bass.co.uk/songs

I can't find my writing that's referenced, but when I went looking for it, I did find this:

Maya, I DID quote you, on my site. If you want me to add your last name, I will.? If you want to write any follow-up, please do. :-)

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When this group was moved, a few things were lost in the transfer, and perhaps whatever I had written fell off the truck. :-)

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On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 09:34 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

I want to save it here for the future, but it's not there
yet. The whole post was quietly inspiring.

I've stirred up an old post, because I went to see what Maya had written in years past.? Her writing is good, and sure enough, I found something really thoughtful and useful and...? I left a note to both of us stating my intention of saving her writing and I DIDN'T SAY WHERE!!!!??

"Here."? Here, some webpage.? ?Doh!? :-)

I suppose it could go under "moment," or "peace."? And maybe it won't go anywhere, but I thought it was worth bring out onto the table again.

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 02:00 PM, <mayalass@...> wrote:

We joke "you've been training for this moment your whole life!" but it isn't a joke, it's completely true.

?I wanted to let that come back in again, because those moments are kind of wonderful.? There are probably some of the adult/parent readers here with similar "comings together," though, too.? I've told mine a time or three, but I'll tell it again to get things started (hoping others might share, if applicable).

From first grade I wanted to be a teacher, and spent LOTS of energy and time paying attention to what teachers did and why (if I could tell) and how various other kinds of kids reacted and responded.? ?

When I was twelve or so, I was big into church and thought I should be a missionary.? That lasted me a few years.? There were three of us at our church.? I still have the Bible they gave me with my name on it, on the special day to discuss missions.? I was over that within just a few years, but I figured it would involve teaching and music.

By high school, I wanted to write, for sure, and maybe magazine articles, I thought.

When I was first teaching, I thought it might be a thing for me to help other teachers—not through colleges of education, but some more direct sort of exchanges like lesson ideas or pamphlets about fun things to do.

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Looking at those things—helping others help OTHERS to learn, and writing, and missionary work....? After I finished the "be a teacher" phase of my life (when I was 27 :-), younger than my youngest is now), then I helped other moms not to have cesareans, and helped other moms nurse babies, and be brave about choices.

In the rearview mirror, I see all those aspects come together in the things I did, wrote, gathered up and provided, about unschooling.

It's not that I knew where I wanted to go, but I knew what appealed to me, and I managed to work a lot of that energy into my life.

The rearview mirror imagery seems pretty useful to unschooling.? I've collected them, for Just Add Light and Stir. :-)

Sandra

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My now adult always unschooled kid has at various times pursued hobbies of sewing, beading, painting, costumes, ceramics, sculpture, glasswork, guitar, and martial arts.? She now has a full-time job building giant, 20 foot high puppets, and performing in shows with audiences of a 1000 people.? This job uses ALL of these skills that she spent years honing or dabbling or coming back around to or diving deeply in.? We joke "you've been training for this moment your whole life!" but it isn't a joke, it's completely true. She is a highly valued member of the studio, regularly being given high-profile puppets to build, and they've just offered to train her in stilt walking for upcoming performances.? She started out volunteering when she was 15 and has worked really hard at it.? It makes her so happy!? I've been reading AlwaysUnschooling since the early 2000s, when she was a toddler.? I can not overstate how much this list has positively influenced my parenting of this amazing person.
Maya

WOAH! How stunning!! They are so talented. Everything about that picture is gorgeous! I would love a piece like that as part of a chain to hang in my window with sun catchers!?

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