Re: When you can see all directions, for a moment
Thank you!? This really strikes a chord with me. My unschooled kids are now 28, 25 and 17. We just spent a cozy week together. They are interested and interesting people. We are all friends and as connected as ever, and I am so grateful; this was the goal. I did not feel this with my parent/family and intentionally made healthier choices for our kids and family?life. I have lately been reflecting (maybe too often) on how much of my life and identity have changed now that our kids are grown. I am so very fortunate to have had this resource to help guide my choices and attitude for the many years of our unschooling journey. They may be grown, but the benefits of unschooling are ever-present in our relationships.
Be peaceful, joyous and kind; there is no greater gift your family.
Dana H.
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Re: When you can see all directions, for a moment
Since we¡¯re now able to share photos, I¡¯d like to share this photo I just took upon reading the beautiful story Sandra shared.?
Present but unseen in this photo are four children total, ages 2, 7, 10, and 15. Husband is also present as we sit by the fire and watch Spider-Man. Two boys, ages 13 & 17, are busy in their rooms, doing things they love. As I write this, the 13 year old showed up for the pepperoni pizza that just came out of the oven!
Life is good! Unschooling has been one of the greatest blessings of my (our) life.?
Many thanks to all the wonderful contributors who have shared so much valuable wisdom here. Happy Holidays, everyone!?
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: All the paragraph breaks showed when I pasted it in, but fell away when it posted.]
THE PARAGRAPHS ALL FELL OUT!??
I'm sending it again, because it was too hard to read, and it DID arrive nicely paragraphed.? Sorry.
?
This was sent to me, for sharing, by someone who understands unschooling well.? She wrote it carefully so as not to be identified, so it's not about who it is.? There are ideas to help anyone, at any level of unschooling, and the writing is nice.
_______________________________________________________________
The kids (ages 12 and 14) and I have been watching ¡°The Goldbergs¡±. We all love the show and as someone who grew up in the 80¡¯s (the show is set in the 80¡¯s) it¡¯s been so fun and nostalgic.
?
My dad has generously been doing work on our house for the last 9 days. He¡¯s about half way done. He prefers to work without our help.
?
This afternoon the kids and I were watching The Goldbergs in front of the fire on the couch (that we so carefully picked out for the ultimate coziness and snugliness. It¡¯s a corner sectional with a chaise.) We have lots of blankets and pillows and our gas fireplace throws the coziest light. I was crocheting. We had popcorn and fruit and cookies and seltzer.This is a very typical at home day for us.
?
Yesterday we were out all day with friends, as we will be tomorrow. This is the rhythm of our life.
?
When my dad came down from upstairs earlier, to the scene of pure connection and peacefulness it occurred to me he¡¯d probably never seen a family live this way before. Not just a life without school¡ªbut a family who is so calm and loves being together so much. A dad who doesn¡¯t need or want a man cave, but instead pops out of his home office any chance he gets to hang out with his family.
?
My childhood was harmful, chaotic, and dysfunctional. In all honesty it was abusive. I¡¯m not mad at my parents anymore. I now understand that they really were doing the best they could. My parents divorced when I was in my late twenties.
?
The cool thing about my dad is that even though he¡¯ll surely judge some of what he saw today as laziness and other negativity, I know he was grateful to see how much peace has come to our family. That the only lineage he knew has ended with me.
?
He doesn¡¯t understand it. But I know his gratitude comes from his very core.
?
It occurred to me today, after he¡¯d gone back upstairs, while I watched the clothes, furniture, music, and toys from my childhood on the screen in front of me¡ªjust how powerful learning to unschool well really is. How worthy all the work I put in is. How we have literally changed the world by starting with my own family.
?
I¡¯m getting all choked up writing this.
?
I could go on with specifics about how it¡¯s improved with my relationship with my parents and friends (because I¡¯ve changed how I interact), but really, what¡¯s amazing me in this moment is how healing this is. We talk about that often and it is so true.
?
I think it felt profound today because I was watching a show set in the era of the heart of my own lousy childhood, with my dad upstairs working, while I was living so peacefully and beautifully with my own family on a Wednesday afternoon.
?
I could be wrong about my dad appreciating the peaceful life we live. He comes from a generation and family belief system that worth only comes from working ourselves to the literal bone. Not because we need the money, but because it¡¯s the only honorable way to live a life. He very well could be thinking that I¡¯m raising lazy, privileged people.
?
And you know what? It¡¯s okay with me if he does. I¡¯ve done enough work to know what he thinks of me and my family has nothing to do with me and my family. It¡¯s better for me to believe he¡¯s deeply grateful. So I do. Because it¡¯s more peaceful.
?
For anyone reading who is just starting out, you have choices. You can yell and scream that what you are doing ¡°IS UNSCHOOLING¡±. You can yell and scream that ¡°THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT WAY TO UNSCHOOL¡±. You can yell and scream all you want. It won¡¯t bring you peace.
?
It won¡¯t get you the cozy, beautiful life you might¡¯ve caught a glimpse of. That takes work. Reading, watching, trying, waiting. Little by little. Over time. An ever present and arching-over-everything commitment to doing the work you need to do to get here.
Sure, I know I have changed the world by starting with myself and my own family. That¡¯s awesome.
?
Know what I love more, though? This gorgeous, beautiful, spectacular, happy world I live in.
?
I didn¡¯t have it when I was a kid¡ªthough I always wanted it with my whole self¡ªbut I have it now. Even better, my kids have it now. There¡¯s nothing in this world I¡¯d ever want more.
_______________________________
If you read through this quickly, consider reading it again, slowly. Maybe aloud, even if only to yourself. Maybe tomorrow. It has jewels.
I can't thank and credit the mom in public, but I will do so on the side for all of you. :-)
?
Sandra
-- With love,
Megan
Check out my weekly blog here:
Thanks in advance for stopping by!
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Re: When you can see all directions, for a moment
Perhaps when you have it all pretty you can share a direct link. I would much prefer referring to the site with that morsel as the inducement to look further!
Vicki P.S. not only are my unschooled until college children "older", I have unschooled grandchildren aged 14 and 16!. All three generations are still learning.
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021, 3:59 PM Sandra Dodd < aelflaed@...> wrote: Don't share that one-long-paragraph version that first posted. :-)
I'm going to put it on a page on my site, too, so yes, share if you want, or wait until I'm through with that page and you can share a link.? Or both. :-)
?
The first post should be in better shape now, and should have gone out as another e-mail (sorry, everybody), so share something with the original, nice, rhythmic breaks! :-)
--
(If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)
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Re: When you can see all directions, for a moment
Don't share that one-long-paragraph version that first posted. :-)
I'm going to put it on a page on my site, too, so yes, share if you want, or wait until I'm through with that page and you can share a link.? Or both. :-)
?
The first post should be in better shape now, and should have gone out as another e-mail (sorry, everybody), so share something with the original, nice, rhythmic breaks! :-)
--
(If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)
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Re: When you can see all directions, for a moment
Yes. Please thank the writer. It is wonderful. I would be interested in permission to share it with others who still approach me about "why unschool".
Vicki in Texas
This was sent to me, for sharing, by someone who understands unschooling well.? She wrote it carefully so as not to be identified, so it's not about who it is.? There are ideas to help anyone, at any level of unschooling, and the writing is nice.
_______________________________________________________________
The kids (ages 12 and 14) and I have been watching ¡°The Goldbergs¡±. We all love the show and as someone who grew up in the 80¡¯s (the show is set in the 80¡¯s) it¡¯s been so fun and nostalgic. My dad has generously been doing work on our house for the last 9 days. He¡¯s about half way done. He prefers to work without our help. This afternoon the kids and I were watching The Goldbergs in front of the fire on the couch (that we so carefully picked out for the ultimate coziness and snugliness. It¡¯s a corner sectional with a chaise.) We have lots of blankets and pillows and our gas fireplace throws the coziest light. I was crocheting. We had popcorn and fruit and cookies and seltzer. This is a very typical at home day for us. Yesterday we were out all day with friends, as we will be tomorrow. This is the rhythm of our life. When my dad came down from upstairs earlier, to the scene of pure connection and peacefulness it occurred to me he¡¯d probably never seen a family live this way before. Not just a life without school¡ªbut a family who is so calm and loves being together so much. A dad who doesn¡¯t need or want a man cave, but instead pops out of his home office any chance he gets to hang out with his family. My childhood was harmful, chaotic, and dysfunctional. In all honesty it was abusive. I¡¯m not mad at my parents anymore. I now understand that they really were doing the best they could. My parents divorced when I was in my late twenties. The cool thing about my dad is that even though he¡¯ll surely judge some of what he saw today as laziness and other negativity, I know he was grateful to see how much peace has come to our family. That the only lineage he knew has ended with me. He doesn¡¯t understand it. But I know his gratitude comes from his very core. It occurred to me today, after he¡¯d gone back upstairs, while I watched the clothes, furniture, music, and toys from my childhood on the screen in front of me¡ªjust how powerful learning to unschool well really is. How worthy all the work I put in is. How we have literally changed the world by starting with my own family. I¡¯m getting all choked up writing this. I could go on with specifics about how it¡¯s improved with my relationship with my parents and friends (because I¡¯ve changed how I interact), but really, what¡¯s amazing me in this moment is how healing this is. We talk about that often and it is so true. I think it felt profound today because I was watching a show set in the era of the heart of my own lousy childhood, with my dad upstairs working, while I was living so peacefully and beautifully with my own family on a Wednesday afternoon. I could be wrong about my dad appreciating the peaceful life we live. He comes from a generation and family belief system that worth only comes from working ourselves to the literal bone. Not because we need the money, but because it¡¯s the only honorable way to live a life. He very well could be thinking that I¡¯m raising lazy, privileged people. And you know what? It¡¯s okay with me if he does. I¡¯ve done enough work to know what he thinks of me and my family has nothing to do with me and my family. It¡¯s better for me to believe he¡¯s deeply grateful. So I do. Because it¡¯s more peaceful. For anyone reading who is just starting out, you have choices. You can yell and scream that what you are doing ¡°IS UNSCHOOLING¡±. You can yell and scream that ¡°THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT WAY TO UNSCHOOL¡±. You can yell and scream all you want. It won¡¯t bring you peace. It won¡¯t get you the cozy, beautiful life you might¡¯ve caught a glimpse of. That takes work. Reading, watching, trying, waiting. Little by little. Over time. An ever present and arching-over-everything commitment to doing the work you need to do to get here. Sure, I know I have changed the world by starting with myself and my own family. That¡¯s awesome. Know what I love more, though? This gorgeous, beautiful, spectacular, happy world I live in. I didn¡¯t have it when I was a kid¡ªthough I always wanted it with my whole self¡ªbut I have it now. Even better, my kids have it now. There¡¯s nothing in this world I¡¯d ever want more.
_______________________________
If you read through this quickly, consider reading it again, slowly. Maybe aloud, even if only to yourself. Maybe tomorrow. It has jewels.
I can't thank and credit the mom in public, but I will do so on the side for all of you. :-)
?
Sandra
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When you can see all directions, for a moment
This was sent to me, for sharing, by someone who understands unschooling well.? She wrote it carefully so as not to be identified, so it's not about who it is.? There are ideas to help anyone, at any level of unschooling, and the writing is nice.
_______________________________________________________________
The kids (ages 12 and 14) and I have been watching ¡°The Goldbergs¡±. We all love the show and as someone who grew up in the 80¡¯s (the show is set in the 80¡¯s) it¡¯s been so fun and nostalgic.
?
My dad has generously been doing work on our house for the last 9 days. He¡¯s about half way done. He prefers to work without our help.
?
This afternoon the kids and I were watching The Goldbergs in front of the fire on the couch (that we so carefully picked out for the ultimate coziness and snugliness. It¡¯s a corner sectional with a chaise.) We have lots of blankets and pillows and our gas fireplace throws the coziest light. I was crocheting. We had popcorn and fruit and cookies and seltzer.?This is a very typical at home day for us.
?
Yesterday we were out all day with friends, as we will be tomorrow. This is the rhythm of our life.
?
When my dad came down from upstairs earlier, to the scene of pure connection and peacefulness it occurred to me he¡¯d probably never seen a family live this way before. Not just a life without school¡ªbut a family who is so calm and loves being together so much. A dad who doesn¡¯t need or want a man cave, but instead pops out of his home office any chance he gets to hang out with his family.
?
My childhood was harmful, chaotic, and dysfunctional. In all honesty it was abusive. I¡¯m not mad at my parents anymore. I now understand that they really were doing the best they could. My parents divorced when I was in my late twenties.
?
The cool thing about my dad is that even though he¡¯ll surely judge some of what he saw today as laziness and other negativity, I know he was grateful to see how much peace has come to our family. That the only lineage he knew has ended with me.
?
He doesn¡¯t understand it. But I know his gratitude comes from his very core.
?
It occurred to me today, after he¡¯d gone back upstairs, while I watched the clothes, furniture, music, and toys from my childhood on the screen in front of me¡ªjust how powerful learning to unschool well really is. How worthy all the work I put in is. How we have literally changed the world by starting with my own family.
?
I¡¯m getting all choked up writing this.
?
I could go on with specifics about how it¡¯s improved with my relationship with my parents and friends (because I¡¯ve changed how I interact), but really, what¡¯s amazing me in this moment is how healing this is. We talk about that often and it is so true.
?
I think it felt profound today because I was watching a show set in the era of the heart of my own lousy childhood, with my dad upstairs working, while I was living so peacefully and beautifully with my own family on a Wednesday afternoon.
?
I could be wrong about my dad appreciating the peaceful life we live. He comes from a generation and family belief system that worth only comes from working ourselves to the literal bone. Not because we need the money, but because it¡¯s the only honorable way to live a life. He very well could be thinking that I¡¯m raising lazy, privileged people.
?
And you know what? It¡¯s okay with me if he does. I¡¯ve done enough work to know what he thinks of me and my family has nothing to do with me and my family. It¡¯s better for me to believe he¡¯s deeply grateful. So I do. Because it¡¯s more peaceful.
?
For anyone reading who is just starting out, you have choices. You can yell and scream that what you are doing ¡°IS UNSCHOOLING¡±. You can yell and scream that ¡°THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT WAY TO UNSCHOOL¡±. You can yell and scream all you want. It won¡¯t bring you peace.
?
It won¡¯t get you the cozy, beautiful life you might¡¯ve caught a glimpse of. That takes work. Reading, watching, trying, waiting. Little by little. Over time. An ever present and arching-over-everything commitment to doing the work you need to do to get here.
Sure, I know I have changed the world by starting with myself and my own family. That¡¯s awesome.
?
Know what I love more, though? This gorgeous, beautiful, spectacular, happy world I live in.
?
I didn¡¯t have it when I was a kid¡ªthough I always wanted it with my whole self¡ªbut I have it now. Even better, my kids have it now. There¡¯s nothing in this world I¡¯d ever want more.
_______________________________
If you read through this quickly, consider reading it again, slowly. Maybe aloud, even if only to yourself. Maybe tomorrow. It has jewels.
I can't thank and credit the mom in public, but I will do so on the side for all of you. :-)
?
Sandra
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
?
==My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?? Does that improve with time, or is it something I need to "work on"--and if so, how?==
I think yes, yes and yes!
I found a way to stop defensiveness from rising was to be prepared - have 'answers' and/or 'deflection' - similar to the stories others have told, if Kai didn't want to speak up, I'd enthusiastically start talking about all the cool things he was doing, all
the cool places we had been. As he's got older, he's very good at doing that for himself.
And yes - it improves with time. The more confident you get with unschooling, the less defensive you will feel.
And yes - it is something you can work on now. Firstly, as described above - get prepared and expect those questions. And, as others have said - realise they are coming from a place of love and interest and a Grandparent trying to connect with a grandkid the
only way they know how.?
?
==Or maybe it's normal?==
I think it's normal in the first few years, as you feel less confident, and are still deschooling, for sure...but that doesn't mean you can't work on it too
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A reader named Jen has sent a story with a question.? I'm very happy to say that although the story is standard, the question is new, and very interesting!
___________________________________
?
We went out to dinner with my in-laws recently, and over the course of the evening, my MIL looked at my eight-year-old and asked, "What do you like best in school?"? My hackles immediately rose; I felt like this was a test, and had the uncomfortable
feeling we were all about to fail.? I said nothing and let my daughter answer, and as the evening went on, I was more aware that it probably *wasn't* a question with any malice or "testing" intended, but simply a grown-up trying hard to connect with a child.?
It seemed similar to those standard questions posed by random adults trying to make conversation with a youngster:? "What grade are you in?"? "What's your favorite subject in school?"
?
My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?? Does that improve with time, or is it something I need to "work on"--and if so, how?
?
Or maybe it's normal?
?
I'd love any thoughts.? I don't like having these adrenaline-laced bursts of anger/defensiveness whenever my kids are with this grandma.? :(
?
Thanks!
--jen fletcher
---------------------------------------------------------------
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If you quote, change "Sandra" to "Jen" if you remember. :-)? Or just quote the words you're going to respond to.
?
Sandra
?
?
?
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
***We play all day, and they learn like crazy.***
?
Yes!? I love that.? I used to say something like, "You'd be surprised how much one can learn by living fully in the world!"? Then, if I had time and the?person seemed interested, I'd share a short story or two as an example.??
?
Like Sandra said, keep in mind a few cool stories.? This is where watching our kids becomes so valuable.? Playing with them when you can is great too because?you can bring those stories of a shared learning experience into your conversations with?others.? It's hard to argue against that kind of personalized immersive investigation.??
?
As unschoolers, we get to see up close and be a part of our kids' learning.? That was just so cool and such a great privilege to me.? Doing so enlightened me about all of our human potential--my own included!? That, in turn, gave me a bit more compassion for the folks asking questions.? I came to understand that they, most often,?just?wanted to learn as well.? I figured I might as well make answering their quesitons fun and interesting for everyone if and when I could.? Sometimes I didn't have the energy for that, and that was okay too.? :)
?
Karen James
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
"We play all day, and they learn like crazy."
Oh, I'm going to start using this.? My current go to response is that we're eclectic homeschoolers, and if people ask more questions I might say we learn primary through experiences or it's based on the needs of each individual kid.? These have worked great for strangers, but I think saying we play all day and learn like crazy would be great for my kids to hear me talking about.? My 14 year old has always been rather critical of how unschooling.? She's told people in the past that we don't do anything.? She's in school by her choice right now, and doing well academically.? One of her teachers told me "Whatever you did, it WORKED."? So, I definitely need an explanation that will help the kids understand it better themselves, I think.?
Regarding grandparents, I was homeschooled myself and very vocal about homeschooling then-future grandchildren, so it wasn't a big surprise for the in-laws once the kids actually hit school age.? My mother-in-law currently keeps quizzing my seven-year-old on money denominations.? It irks me, and drives my husband crazy.? We've talked to our son about it and he says he doesn't mind because his grandma gives him the coins after.? So we try to recognize that his relationship with her and his perception of "schooly things" is different than ours.
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
Fortuitious find!??
?
"My dd (now almost 14, but maybe only 9 at the time) and her brother and I were at our local Mennonite heritage museum. They had their picture taken in the old fashioned school house posing with a "teacher". The reporter asked my daughter what her favorite "subject" in school was. Without batting an eye, she turned to me and asked, "Mom, what's a subject"? The reporter looked a bit taken aback! I still remember then the impact on me of realizing how different my children's lives are developing from mine, with life as just "life", and not measured by bells, the start of September, punctuated by Xmas and spring break and "is this on the test"! The impact of that is reinforced to me and them as they get older and I and they see their peers disenchanted by school."
Tina Bragdon wrote that in 2014 and it was preserved here:??
<hr>
[I came back in to add...]
OH, DOH!? I got so excited about finding that, and went to put it on the page SandraDodd.com/subjects, and it's already there.? Well, good, I guess. :-)? Sorry to those of you who had already followed the earlier link and seen it!? It's a great story.
?
?
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
Inspiring story, Karen, beautifully?written. I grew up Southern Baptist.? Karen did not.? don't know that for sure, but here are my two best clues:? She's Canadian, and she (being a good writer), did not see what she did here: That I could put their minds at ease was usually?enough.? That I could do it with a clear enthusiasm for the opportunity we were given was even better.? ? Ethan got to witness the fun and enthusiasm?in my shared responses too.? I believe that helped him feel more confident in what they're doing as well, which, of course, was a wonderful bonus! What Karen did was (in the terminology of Baptists and some other religious people of the U.S., and maybe other places) was witnessing.? So after her story of having the spirit move her to share how blessed their life was, she wrote " Ethan got to witness."
That term is what shook me into seeing the whole thing in that light.
Back to the reality of her writing:? Karen didn't use the words I used, but here (for those who don't know) are the principles behind "witnessing" as used by evangelical kinds of people:? IF what you do/believe is valid, then you and your own life should be evidence of its value.? IF your faith is strong, and based in something good, then if you share information about your life, it should be inspiring to others who will have higher regard for you and maybe/perhaps, even want to be more like you, or to know more.
So I will lay off the personal excitement, a bit, but it WAS fun for me to read it that way. :-)
At the grocery store one day someone was asked questions about my present-on-a-school day kids, one of whom was walking, and the other two were in the basket of the shopping cart/trolley.? ?It was a friendly, older couple,? who seemed to think the kids were interesting, and content, and so struck up a conversation.? ?They weren't critical, just curious, and?asked about lessons.? I told them we didn't homeschool like that. I said "We play all day, and they learn like crazy."? They liked the answer, because the kids were being charming, maybe. :-)
Karen had more time, at that cook-out, and was taking on the challenge of "beating the boss" by addressing a bunch of PhDs in one place!? Impressive.? My most on-the-spot experience might've been the discussion after dinner at the home of the parents of an unschooling mom in India. :-)??
Those things will happen, at grocery stores, maybe in your own house, at restaurants, at parties...? ?(Holly reminded me of a long-ago restaurant encounter just a few days ago.)
Keep in mind a story or two you can share to avoid the deer-in-the-headlights problem.? Be prepared, and then don't be surprised if you don't need the stories.? :-)
Sandra
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
***I believe that helped him feel more confident in what they're doing as well, which, of course, was a wonderful bonus!***
I meant to write:
"I believe that helped him feel more confident in what we were doing as well, which, of course, was a wonderful bonus!"
Sorry about that!
Karen James
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
***I felt like this was a test, and had the uncomfortable feeling we were all about to fail.***
?
***My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?***
?
When people quizzed us during our unschooling years (we're done now, after 13 years), I approached it as a fun opportunity to answer questions.? We got a lot of schooly questions over the?years because my husband is a professor in computer science.? At faculty gatherings I'd regularly get asked what we were doing, how, why, etc.? I remember one time at an outdoor BBQ being almost grilled by (pun intended!) a line of retired male professors and their wives.? It was slightly weird and intimidating, but I looked at it as a challenge.? I figured if I could make *them* see how much enthusiasm and learning there was in our day to day lives, then I was in the process of leveling up on?my ability to communicate what we were doing.? In my?mind, they were like the Bosses at the end of a game!? Haha!? When we left the gathering, the one professor's wife stopped and thanked me for sharing our experience.? She said it was enlightening and inspiring.? I remember it well because her compliment in her strong Southern accent really made me smile.? Ethan too, I noticed.
?
All of this is to say that if you can make these questions fun for yourself and learn to see and share all of the joy and learning in your days with an open?heart and?a sincere appreciation for the unique choices you?get to make for yourself and your family, then it won't?matter as much what the other person's intentions are.? Most of the time, if you are enthusiastic about what you are doing with your kids, other folks will see and appreciate it, even if it's different from what they know.? On occasion, they'll celebrate it with you too.
?
It was always important for me to remember that we were living in the world in a way that was unfamiliar to most people.? We weren't living on an island, separate from everyone, doing?our?own thing.? What I came to understand was that most people just?wanted to know that we were safe--that our son was getting the?kind of exposure that was healthy and happy and would eventually lead to an adult who would have something of some value to contribute to the world around him.? ?That I could put their minds at ease was usually?enough.? That I could do it with a clear enthusiasm for the opportunity we were given was even better.?
Ethan got to witness the fun and enthusiasm?in my shared responses too.? I believe that helped him feel more confident in what they're doing as well, which, of course, was a wonderful bonus!
?
Karen James
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
-=-We went out to dinner with my in-laws recently, and over the course of the evening, my MIL looked at my eight-year-old and asked, "What do you like best in school?"? My hackles immediately rose; I felt like this was a test, and had the uncomfortable feeling we were all about to fail.-=-
The child will have none of the years of memories and associations and frustrations the parent has, so for one thing, if you're projecting your own sensibilities and defensiveness on to her, take a deep breath and distract yourself into some other topic or idea in the world, away from that spikey sharp place where you are, before you harm yourself or others. :-)
After the first couple of times that awkward relatives asked my two older kids (when they were still that young) "What's your favorite subject?" THEY (the kids knew) and I knew that "subject" to the questioner was limited to math, science, history, language arts, music, art. :-)? ?My unschooled kids did not have that list ingrained in them, so they took it to be ANYthing they liked, which is good.??
If the conversation might've been about to stall out, with the older relative starting to make it multiple choice of those "school subjects," I jumped in a time or two with a normal, everyday conversation boost, like "they've been doing a lot of boffer fighting," and then the older relatives asked what that was, and the kids jumped in enthusiastically, telling all about their favorite foam weapons, and who made them, and what the rules were.??
Then it was off of the awkward school question and on to real life and something they could talk about, and maybe demonstrate.
Also, all the older people in the conversation will know that at least half the kids asked what they like best about school would say "recess," but my kids didn't have that term in them at all. :-)
I avoided, purposefully, using the school-subject labels for things, so that connections and interests would flow more freely.? My kids learned those terms later, figuring it out on their own, after they already had LOTS of happy experiences in each "field."??
Kirby knew a LOT about Ninja Turtles.? Marty was great at puzzles and at assembling things that needed assembling.??
I found that the most productive and peaceful place to be, with grandparents and kids, was the children's museum (Explora, in Albuquerque, which was in a couple of longterm?temporary places, when my kids were very young, and eventually got the big, nice building they're in now).? The grandparents saw it all as interesting and educational, whilc my kids saw it as a play place full of big toys, magic tricks and games that they were familiar enough with to show the grandparents.
More about dealing with questions about subjects, and about thinking about it oneself as an unschooling parent/facilitator:
Sandra
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
........My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?? Does that improve with time, or is it something I need to "work on"--and if so, how?...........
The feeling of wanting to defend is normal since by unschooling, one is challenging a Norm, that millions all over the world subscribe to without much doubt.?
But when I read your story, I hear that you were already also equally aware that your MIL was trying to connect with her grand-daughter. Your MIL belongs to the Norm and therefore her point of references for connecting would naturally be school and school related stuff. It is a starting point for her and your daughter. From that point on the conversation could go anywhere. I feel, at that point if we could just pause, take a deep breath despite the defenses rising, wait to see where the connection goes, one might be surprised by life. I feel and I have done this in my journey, that pausing really helps for fear to be parked for a while and possibilities emerge that we might not have imagined. I think trusting the moment at the time like how you actually did with your awareness despite your defenses rising, helped you to see things differently and with love.
By not actively giving action to your defense, you displayed compassion towards your MIL and also you did not start by challenging her, as, if she felt challenged then she might not like to enter your daughter's world again.?
So yes, keep working on that awareness, would be my response to you.
? ......Or maybe it's normal?.....
So yeah, it's normal. But then unschooling taught me to challenge 'normal' ways of communication which often make us act out of fear and defense. I think both a sense of defensiveness and a wilingness to not succumb to that can co-exist, when we pause more, breathe more, stay silent a little bit longer than usual.? I think both these when held with self-love, can inform each other on how one could act.
Dola
A reader named Jen has sent a story with a question.? I'm very happy to say that although the story is standard, the question is new, and very interesting!
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We went out to dinner with my in-laws recently, and over the course of the evening, my MIL looked at my eight-year-old and asked, "What do you like best in school?"? My hackles immediately rose; I felt like this was a test, and had the uncomfortable feeling we were all about to fail.? I said nothing and let my daughter answer, and as the evening went on, I was more aware that it probably *wasn't* a question with any malice or "testing" intended, but simply a grown-up trying hard to connect with a child.? It seemed similar to those standard questions posed by random adults trying to make conversation with a youngster:? "What grade are you in?"? "What's your favorite subject in school?"
?
My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?? Does that improve with time, or is it something I need to "work on"--and if so, how?
?
Or maybe it's normal?
?
I'd love any thoughts.? I don't like having these adrenaline-laced bursts of anger/defensiveness whenever my kids are with this grandma.? :(
?
Thanks!
--jen fletcher
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If you quote, change "Sandra" to "Jen" if you remember. :-)? Or just quote the words you're going to respond to.
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Sandra
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Re: Grandparents and "standard questions"
Hi all,
First time response :)
?"What's your favorite subject in school?¡±
I think that when you unschool this question can definitely elicit unwanted responses within you. Letting your child have the space to answer for themselves is great. If they are stumped or uncomfortable, you can join in by saying something about what they are interested in or spending time on right now. It doesn¡¯t need to sound schoolish and can be the bridge to help the conversation move forwards. I was introduced to a term the other day ¡®conversation repair¡¯ I¡¯m not sure where it comes from, but I liked the idea of a sort of repair kit for when a conversation has become stuck or gone awkwardly. Another idea is to have scripts for these types of questions.?
With my own children I have seen a variety of answers over the years, including ¡°I don¡¯t go to school¡± and ¡°I¡¯m home educated¡±. So these answers may leave the questioner at a loss, but I can then add to the conversation with some interesting information about what the person has been doing. On the one hand I feel like it¡¯s sad that the only thing people can think to ask a child is in reference in to school but, on the other, I realise that these ¡¯standard questions¡¯ have been around for a very long time and most likely will remain so. As the OP stated the questions do show an adult genuinely trying to connect with a child which is great, so if we can try to help the fostering of meaningful connection then that is a good thing. This is even more important when the relationships are with people we love and care about, such as the grandparents in this case, rather than a random stranger with whom a short answer would suffice.
My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?? Does that improve with time, or is it something I need to "work on"--and if so, how?
I¡¯m not sure if?you can stop your response altogether but you can use it as a signal. It can let you know to be on stand-by to help if?necessary. In the moment, some deep breathing?could help to ease the defensiveness. I became less?defensive the more I?deschooled and that took time and is still ongoing. For me it improved with time and deschooling, so I think the way to work on it is to keep deschooling.?
Another thought I had is that the?relationship we have with the person who is asking the question, can also play a part in informing our?response, that is how we feel in response to a question being asked by that person. If the?relationship is good, I¡¯m less?likely to feel anger/defensiveness because I know the persons intention is good. Being aware that this can impact the way I interpret?meaning, can be?very helpful in avoiding?misinterpreting positive intention for negative intention.?
Warm?regards Davina Harrington
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Grandparents and "standard questions"
A reader named Jen has sent a story with a question.? I'm very happy to say that although the story is standard, the question is new, and very interesting!
___________________________________
?
We went out to dinner with my in-laws recently, and over the course of the evening, my MIL looked at my eight-year-old and asked, "What do you like best in school?"? My hackles immediately rose; I felt like this was a test, and had the uncomfortable feeling we were all about to fail.? I said nothing and let my daughter answer, and as the evening went on, I was more aware that it probably *wasn't* a question with any malice or "testing" intended, but simply a grown-up trying hard to connect with a child.? It seemed similar to those standard questions posed by random adults trying to make conversation with a youngster:? "What grade are you in?"? "What's your favorite subject in school?"
?
My question is, is there a way to stop the defensiveness from rising in me so quickly?? Does that improve with time, or is it something I need to "work on"--and if so, how?
?
Or maybe it's normal?
?
I'd love any thoughts.? I don't like having these adrenaline-laced bursts of anger/defensiveness whenever my kids are with this grandma.? :(
?
Thanks!
--jen fletcher
---------------------------------------------------------------
?
If you quote, change "Sandra" to "Jen" if you remember. :-)? Or just quote the words you're going to respond to.
?
Sandra
?
?
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Thank you for writing, Marta!
It's true, not many people are using e-mail or any sort of forums anymore.? Lots of online expression is visual, now.? I used to collect things Holly wrote, or photo-manipulation art she?did, but nowadays?her best stuff is fleeting¡ªinstagram, videos with music and captions, that weren't made to last long.? I miss most of it.
Marta wrote, of other resources:? "?they're fear-mongering (even though at first, they?appear not to be) and overwhelm me with tons of information. I was going down the YouTube?rabbit hole almost everyday and telling myself that it was interesting stuff and helping me keep my brain fit. Instead, it feels like it's too much for my brain to handle. Too much, too fast."
One difference that has affected my site is the move from horizontal screens (people using computers) to vertical screens (phones).? Many of my pages were pretty, with side bars, and photos lined up with text, magazine style.? ?I'm mourning some of that loss, but the information is more important, so steadily and gradually, I tweak and lengthen and line things up for phones.? I resisted at first.
But the good thing about the way my?site is set up is that although it might be too much for someone to handle in the moment, I don't put the best part last.? Most pages have a good quote or story up top, and then some other good ones.? :-)? If people don't want more, they still got *some,* of the topic they went to.
Anyone who is in the mood for more probably has choices (in a choose-your-own-adventure way) at the bottom of the page, which should (by my hopes and ideals) have three links, or maybe a few more.? Not TOO many, but usually three, related, but branching off from that page.
I'm trying to avoid it being too much too fast, but that people can take it in at their own pace, as they need particular bits.? I'm hoping it will remain, as a cookbook, to represent the busy experimental cooking gatherings and feasts and picnics that once were, so that people can still re-create some of the best flavors and ingredients even if they live far from other unschoolers, either physically or in time.? There are towns that used to be full of unschoolers, and the families are still there, but the kids are grown, so younger families come into a ghost town, of sorts.??
I'm not sure whether this group is doomed to be a ghost town.? Sometimes ghost towns are revitalized.
Sandra
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This was particularly salient to me Sandra. I have been reading this list for quite some time and the Always Learning but I have mostly held back from commenting on the groups as I didn't feel ready. When I read your post I realised that these groups might not be around forever and that if I wanted them to continue then I needed to take some personal responsibility for contributing to them myself. I also realised that I might be missing out on relating to the people that are here and getting feedback on our Unschooling journey. Rather than waiting until a time in the future when I might be able to engage in writing and sharing in something I value, I thought that it might be the time to contribute now.
I've had this feeling that I'm not ready to comment on the groups for ages. :-P Going on year 6 of officially?unschooling our sweet 12 year old daughter (I found radical?unschooling when she was only a year old, so life just kept going as it was when she turned 6 - sweet and gentle and filled with fun learning), and I still feel that way. Still not ready. ;-)
At the same time, as I've been grieving the loss of the discussions, this thread struck a chord -- maybe if I want these discussions to happen, I should start by commenting and posting more often! :-) It seems to be?coming?true, that these discussions won't be around forever,?as that mom pointed out in Sandra's first email.?
I was talking about this (again) with my therapist yesterday, and she was telling me that it's likely that as things have changed in terms of what is mostly used nowadays, even by her (instagram posts and lives, whatsapp, zoom, for instance), perhaps that might have to do with the decline of places like this list. I told her that that might be the case, but a live on parenting/unschooling/radical unschooling on instagram can't beat a well thought out discussion like the ones that I've read for years on this list.
This ties in with something I also realized just this week. All the podcasts that I have been listening to lately (psychology and philosophy related, mostly) don't help me as much as these discussions did,?mostly because they're not focused on radical unschooling, they're fear-mongering (even though at first, they?appear not to be) and overwhelm me with tons of information. I was going down the YouTube?rabbit hole almost everyday and telling myself that it was interesting stuff and helping me keep my brain fit. Instead, it feels like it's too much for my brain to handle. Too much, too fast.?
So here I am, taking my first step to help bring the?discussions back. I know I'm busy and life happens, but I want to make time for this. I want to write while I can! ?
All through these years, since the AOL group that Jonathan mentioned, there have always been dozens to a hundred or more active writers at any one time. Some last six months, or three years, or six. Some have lasted twenty years. I'm grateful to all of them.
Thank you Sandra, for saving all the beautiful gems that those active writers shared throughout the years. Thank you for doing it so generously. Thank you for taking the time to think so deeply about all these things and letting us in on your conclusions. Thank you for helping me and my family have such a peaceful and wonderful life.
Sending lots of love from rainy Lisbon, in Portugal
Marta Venturini
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Katie, I would have loved to wake up to something like that, ANYtime in my life.? Especially, though, as a kid.??
I love the table, and the bowls, too.? I'm glad we can bring photos in here now.? When Always Learning was new, uploading photos was an iffy thing, and for others to view them, iffy-times-X/however many readers. :-)
It's a little luxury now, but a pretty big deal looking at the whole 20 years.
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Vicki Dennis
Karen James
Sandra Dodd
Davina Harrington