Not sure how to upload the file directly but here is a Google drive link to the talk by Penny P and Michael B from 2022 History Symposium, if anyone is still looking for it.
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Jeff E
Green Bay, WI
Area 74 Archives
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[Moderator comment: That is a great talk. I have saved messages from both from back then and Penny and I especially go back years. Both are wonderful people. -Thom]
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Re: File /Articles/Confession_of_an_AA_History_Buff.pdf uploaded
#file-notice
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Interesting read of the pdf.
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Is there a mistake in the text of the date in the
pdf (pages 3 and 4) ?
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==========================
[page 3 of the pdf]:
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Your investigations led to some questions
about A.A.'s founding date. Could you
describe what you discovered and
people's reaction to this discovery?
Good historians have to follow
the evidence even if we don't like where that
?
[page 4 of the pdf]:
takes us, and even if others have a lot of emotion about what we
are
investigating. For example, I was advised by an editor reviewing my
manuscript on early
A.A. history to look into the events surrounding the
Atlantic City AMA Convention in
Atlantic City that immediately preceded Dr.
Bob's last drink. The dates from the detailed
AMA records didn't line up and
Dr. Bob was not indicated as signing in to any one
seminar or the Convention
as a whole. There was a second time misalignment with
respect to Sue Smith¡¯s
very specific accounting of an argument with her father on the
date of his
return. He refused to give permission for her to attend a dance at a
named
school. Wally P., another A.A. historian, was going to Akron he offered
to check the
Akron Beacon Journal for the date of the dance at that school.
It occurred exactly one
week later. So the date was actually June 17,
1939 [bolding mine].
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==========================
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Is the date in bold supposed to have been listed as
1935?
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Rachael M
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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 3:41
PM
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] File
/Articles/Confession_of_an_AA_History_Buff.pdf uploaded #file-notice
The following items have been added to the Files area of the [email protected]
group.
By: Thom R. <thomr021092@...>
Description:
A short "interview" with William White concerning
the study of AA History. I do not know exactly when this was done (maybe
someone in the group knows more) but I did find it to be interesting and
wanted to share.
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Remember to mention Nancy?Olson!
Rick, Illinois
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[Moderator comment: How could I forget?? :) -Thom]
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O n Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:18?PM Thom R. via <thomr021092=[email protected]> wrote:
Update on all of this:
?
Tomorrow (Friday in the USA and Saturday in New Zealand) at the First OIAA International Convention, I will be telling some of it. Starting at about 5:45PM pacific time. I am honored to be doing a talk on the history of Online AA and OIAA (time permitting, I may fit AAHL into the timeline as well as it most certainly deserves to be there).
?
For more info (and to register for free for the three days worldwide online only event). They plan to record it.
?
For more info, look at and then just click the link (you'll see it).
?
Thom R
AAHL Moderator
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--
Richard Tompkins
35120 N. Shoreline Drive?
Ingleside IL 60041-9281
224-908-9487
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Does anyone have any idea of what came of Bill's automobile (Woody)? I have emailed stepping stones and not received any replies yet.? Thank you,? Brian S. brianfishin@...? 925-548-3929
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I know from my heart that you can create a new silkworth dot net under a new domain name. I encourage you to do just that. I appreciate you Thom. I appreciate what you do. PLEASE..... GO FOR IT THOM... I know you can create what I could not. - Jim Myers Original creator of silkworthdotnet
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 9:32 PM, Jim Myers <jim.myers56@...> wrote: Thom... You now have in your possession all of my thousands of files about the original silkworth dot net. Please use these files in the best interest of Alcoholics Anonymous history. Thank you Thom. I know you will utilize all the files to benefit the members of Alcoholics Anonymous. Thank you Thom and take care. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 9:18 PM, Thom R. <thomr021092@...> wrote: Update on all of this:
?
Tomorrow (Friday in the USA and Saturday in New Zealand) at the First OIAA International Convention, I will be telling some of it. Starting at about 5:45PM pacific time. I am honored to be doing a talk on the history of Online AA and OIAA (time permitting, I may fit AAHL into the timeline as well as it most certainly deserves to be there).
?
For more info (and to register for free for the three days worldwide online only event). They plan to record it.
?
For more info, look at and then just click the link (you'll see it).
?
Thom R
AAHL Moderator
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Thom... You now have in your possession all of my thousands of files about the original silkworth dot net. Please use these files in the best interest of Alcoholics Anonymous history. Thank you Thom. I know you will utilize all the files to benefit the members of Alcoholics Anonymous. Thank you Thom and take care.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 9:18 PM, Thom R. <thomr021092@...> wrote: Update on all of this:
?
Tomorrow (Friday in the USA and Saturday in New Zealand) at the First OIAA International Convention, I will be telling some of it. Starting at about 5:45PM pacific time. I am honored to be doing a talk on the history of Online AA and OIAA (time permitting, I may fit AAHL into the timeline as well as it most certainly deserves to be there).
?
For more info (and to register for free for the three days worldwide online only event). They plan to record it.
?
For more info, look at and then just click the link (you'll see it).
?
Thom R
AAHL Moderator
|
Update on all of this:
?
Tomorrow (Friday in the USA and Saturday in New Zealand) at the First OIAA International Convention, I will be telling some of it. Starting at about 5:45PM pacific time. I am honored to be doing a talk on the history of Online AA and OIAA (time permitting, I may fit AAHL into the timeline as well as it most certainly deserves to be there).
?
For more info (and to register for free for the three days worldwide online only event). They plan to record it.
?
For more info, look at and then just click the link (you'll see it).
?
Thom R
AAHL Moderator
|
File /Articles/Confession_of_an_AA_History_Buff.pdf uploaded
#file-notice
The following items have been added to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Thom R. <thomr021092@...>
Description:
A short "interview" with William White concerning the study of AA History. I do not know exactly when this was done (maybe someone in the group knows more) but I did find it to be interesting and wanted to share.
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According to two former G.S.O. Archivists, as far as we know ¡°Man on the Bed¡± was never consciously painted to be Bill and Bob carrying the message. Only to depict two alcoholics calling on a third.">> It is a drawing. It portrays a man on a bed being 12th Stepped by two members. Lacking something in writing from the artist, we do not know that it is supposed to be anyone in particular and certainly does not look like a hospital room. There is much unofficial conjecture on the internet that it represents 3 particular people. The original title "Came to Believe" indicates that it is probably more generic.
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Sorry to bother you. A friendly dispute has arisen in our AA group.
Allan says that the famous "Man on the Bed" painting?
depicts Dr. Bob and Bill visiting Bill Dotson, AA #3.
Linda says that is incorrect.?
She says that in 1955 an illustrator for the Grapevine, Robert M, decided to paint a typical, generic 12th Step visit.?
He titled it "Came to Believe"
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So? AA myth grew when someone said:
"Hey that looks like a painting of Bill W. & Dr. Bob 12th Stepping Bill Dotson".
So, the myth spread like wildfire and they renamed the painting?
"man on the bed".?
So our question is...?
did the artist intend to paint a picture of Bill, Bob and Bill Dotson??
Or was he just painting an ordinary 12th step call which later became associated with Bill, Bob, Bill Dotson??
?
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I would not consider the newsletter a credible source, lacking additional information.? The following is sourced to "The GSO Archivist," FWIW.
A query to GSO might be in order.
Tommy H
TO
THE QUESTION OF "WHO ARE THEY?" THE GSO DIGITAL ARCHIVIST
SAYS: "According to two former G.S.O. Archivists, as far as we
know ¡°Man on the Bed¡± was never consciously painted to be Bill
and Bob carrying the message. Only to depict two alcoholics calling
on a third.">> It is a drawing. It portrays a man on a bed
being 12th Stepped by two members. Lacking something in writing from
the artist, we do not know that it is supposed to be anyone in
particular and certainly does not look like a hospital room. There is
much unofficial conjecture on the internet that it represents 3
particular people. The original title "Came to Believe"
indicates that it is probably more generic. If anyone has any
definite documented proof that the author meant it to represent any
specific individuals, please post it. Now some general information:
1955 - 'Man on the Bed' painting by Robert M. first appeared in
Grapevine. Painting originally called 'Came to Believe'
Greetings all I tend to trust the archives of Steppings Stones ¨C read the front page of the attached new letter. ? Mark Mark J. Everett 250 Township Road 1097 Chesapeake, Ohio? 45619 (513) 850-4911 gpopmark@... I do not use any social media sites. I talk via phone and in-person I text via email and US mail I do not trust 3rd party services ? to respect or protect my privacy.
¡°The more A.A. sticks to its primary purpose, the greater will be its helpful ?influence everywhere.¡±? Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, page 109 and ¡°Complaining is not an action step.¡±??? ¡°Distilled Spirits,¡± August 1982, AA Grapevine ? ? Sorry to bother you. A friendly dispute has arisen in our AA group. Allan says that the famous "Man on the Bed" painting? depicts Dr. Bob and Bill visiting Bill Dotson, AA #3. Linda says that is incorrect.? She says that in 1955 an illustrator for the Grapevine, Robert M, decided to paint a typical, generic 12th Step visit.? He titled it "Came to Believe" So? AA myth grew when someone said: "Hey that looks like a painting of Bill W. & Dr. Bob 12th Stepping Bill Dotson". So, the myth spread like wildfire and they renamed the painting? did the artist intend to paint a picture of Bill, Bob and Bill Dotson?? Or was he just painting an ordinary 12th step call which later became associated with Bill, Bob, Bill Dotson??
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Greetings all I tend to trust the archives of Steppings Stones ¨C read the front page of the attached new letter. ? Mark Mark J. Everett 250 Township Road 1097 Chesapeake, Ohio? 45619 (513) 850-4911 gpopmark@... I do not use any social media sites. I talk via phone and in-person I text via email and US mail I do not trust 3rd party services ? to respect or protect my privacy.
¡°The more A.A. sticks to its primary purpose, the greater will be its helpful ?influence everywhere.¡±? Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, page 109 and ¡°Complaining is not an action step.¡±??? ¡°Distilled Spirits,¡± August 1982, AA Grapevine ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul Polichio Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 6:54 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] AA question ? Sorry to bother you. A friendly dispute has arisen in our AA group. Allan says that the famous "Man on the Bed" painting? depicts Dr. Bob and Bill visiting Bill Dotson, AA #3. Linda says that is incorrect.? She says that in 1955 an illustrator for the Grapevine, Robert M, decided to paint a typical, generic 12th Step visit.? He titled it "Came to Believe" So? AA myth grew when someone said: "Hey that looks like a painting of Bill W. & Dr. Bob 12th Stepping Bill Dotson". So, the myth spread like wildfire and they renamed the painting? did the artist intend to paint a picture of Bill, Bob and Bill Dotson?? Or was he just painting an ordinary 12th step call which later became associated with Bill, Bob, Bill Dotson??
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Sorry to bother you. A friendly dispute has arisen in our AA group. Allan says that the famous "Man on the Bed" painting? depicts Dr. Bob and Bill visiting Bill Dotson, AA #3. Linda says that is incorrect.? She says that in 1955 an illustrator for the Grapevine, Robert M, decided to paint a typical, generic 12th Step visit.? He titled it "Came to Believe"
So? AA myth grew when someone said: "Hey that looks like a painting of Bill W. & Dr. Bob 12th Stepping Bill Dotson". So, the myth spread like wildfire and they renamed the painting? "man on the bed".? So our question is...? did the artist intend to paint a picture of Bill, Bob and Bill Dotson?? Or was he just painting an ordinary 12th step call which later became associated with Bill, Bob, Bill Dotson??
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According to the Arthur S. timeline, which has proved rather reliable over the years, the first AA clubhouse was opened in Manhattan at 334 1/2 24th Street during February, 1940. Thus the link that Rod provided that asserts that clubhouses were opened in the 1930s is slightly premature. Pass It On confirms the opening of this clubhouse in February, 1940 and states clearly on page 238 that this was the first AA clubhouse.
Gary Neidhardt, Lilburn, GA
On Monday, July 22, 2024 at 04:38:42 AM EDT, Rod Woodard via groups.io <rodwoodard@...> wrote:
From:
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By its own traditions, Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) cannot finance or lend its name to any facility (and thus cannot own property), so ¡°club houses¡± for recovering alcoholics sprang up in the 1930s soon after AA¡¯s founding. Initially called ¡°24-Hour Clubs,¡± and operated apart from AA by groups of recovering alcoholics, these institutions met the need among recovering people and their families for providing a place for companionship and sober recreation, and soon came to be called ¡°AA¡¯s second miracle.¡± Alano Clubs are the most common among the thousands of recovery clubs around the world that provide ¡°safe haven¡± to travelers who are recovered alcoholics and addicts as well as a social hub for the local recovery community.
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From:
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By its own traditions, Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) cannot finance or lend its name to any facility (and thus cannot own property), so ¡°club houses¡± for recovering alcoholics sprang up in the 1930s soon after AA¡¯s founding. Initially called ¡°24-Hour Clubs,¡± and operated apart from AA by groups of recovering alcoholics, these institutions met the need among recovering people and their families for providing a place for companionship and sober recreation, and soon came to be called ¡°AA¡¯s second miracle.¡± Alano Clubs are the most common among the thousands of recovery clubs around the world that provide ¡°safe haven¡± to travelers who are recovered alcoholics and addicts as well as a social hub for the local recovery community.
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Many clubs have stated that the term stands for AL: alcoholic; AN: anonymous; O: Organization.? There are too many instances of this to site all of the clubs that refer to this, but a google search will provide lots of examples.? However, the earliest use of the term?? I'll leave that to all the experts in this group.
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Does anyone know the origin of the word "alano"? Bill used the word in 1947 in an AA GrapeVine article. I assume it was common before 1947. It could be a shorthand for Alcoholics Anonymous in some way. Hopefully, someone knows the beginning of the use of the term.
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I wish I could contribute to the history of reading the 9th Step promises at meetings, but I can't. I found that when I got sober in Toledo, Ohio back in late 1990, they tended to be read more at open meetings.
I stole this PDF from a fellow who got it from an Atlanta Men's Workshop. It claims 147 promises from the first Roman-numbered pages through to 164 in the Big Book. It also says that to include Dr Bob's story takes the count over 150.
So when I'm asked to "read the Promises" in a meeting, I always preface it by saying "There's over 140 promises in the Big Book - these are just the ones after the ninth step..."
Steve F, Springfield, MO 12-12-1990
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Okay, that's probably why I was unable to find an answer. Thank you for getting back to me!
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It¡¯s very similar to how it works being read out at the beginning of many meetings. It was a way to introduce the AA program in the early days before there was a preamble or suggested guidelines for meetings. Of course there are many many promises in the big book, not least the 10th step promises. Many groups choose not to read them, it¡¯s entirely a GC decision. But there is no official answer to your question, like many things in AA - it just developed.?
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Hello, I'm new to this group, so I'm not entirely sure how this all works, but I just had a question that I've been doing all kinds of research on and have gotten nowhere on and I'm hoping someone here might have the answer. I apologize if this answer is actually already listed somewhere throughout all of the messages on this forum, but I'm not to sure how to use this all yet and/or how to do a search through all of the postings.
My question is, why is it that the 9th step promises are the dedicated promises read at many meetings? There are several other sets of promises for several other steps in the book Alcoholics Anonymous, so I'm just curious why the 9th step promises were chosen to represent "The AA Promises" in meetings.?
I have a couple of theories, such as perhaps it's because they are closely aligned with being the exact opposite of the bedevilments listed on page 52, or maybe it's because once we finish the 9th step, we move onto our daily action steps (10 is daily inventory, 11 is daily prayer and meditation and 12 is daily work with other alcoholics) but I can't seem to find an actual legit answer to this question anywhere. Thank you in advance for any information you are able to provide me!
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RachaelM55
Richard Tompkins
Jim M.
Thom R.
NeidhardtG
Dougie