I Don't know where I got this link from , maybe here & I forgot ? anyways theres some info here that may help some of ya guys .
animal

Looks like the site is temporarily down.? The link posted matches what Google has but even root won't connect.

On Monday, February 5th, 2024 at 8:57 PM, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:

The link is not working
Like what said too.

Dave?

The link is not working
Like what said too.

Dave?

On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 10:55 PM, Johannes wrote:

What is inside of a sewing motor pedal?

Just a resistor or some electronic?

As mentioned by chrisser, they use a hall effect magnetic field sensor and a magnet.? It is possible to replace all that with a potentiometer and a couple of resistors but there are a couple of things you need to be aware of.? The first is that the sensor-magnet scheme isn't all that linear with respect to distance, so the RPMs vs. pot setting may not be very linear.? A tach can address this.

The second is that the motor controller expects a certain amount of current flowing through the sensor chip and goes into an error condition if it doesn't "see" it.? This is to detect if the pedal assembly is plugged in or not.? IIRC, the hall effect sensor draws something on the order of 4mA.

I found a discussion??that may be helpful.? Particularly the comments on the schematic indicating that the control voltage may be "floating" at a rather high voltage.? This may be another reason for using a noncontact control device like the hall effect sensor.

Stay safe!

brushless motors are combatted externally, usually with software controller 6 MOSFET switches. These motors produce the highest torque at zero RPM.

Note that a common stapler motor is also a kind of brushless motor that is controlled as said above and it also has the most torque at zero RPM.

A few things have changed in the last decade or so to allow motors to become very powerfull and compact
1) Rare Earth magnets. These are incredibly powerful and tiny.
2) MOSFETS with on resistance of only a few milli-Ohms.
3) micro controlers that sell for about $1.

So now we have battery operated drills that have enough torque to almost break your wrist and bikes. (BTW take a good look at ebike motors and e-skateboard motors.)

On Feb 4, 2024, at 11:08?AM, Jay Fougere <groupsio@...> wrote:

You can get those sewing machine motors on Amazon for quite a bit less than that ebay listing.

(Note: Not Prime... shipping is $25 on the one listed but you can find them for less shipping - they always land around $100 total though)

I have one now that I am fitting on one of my X2 mini-mills - if it works as well as I expect the 2nd mill will get one too :)

I don't know others, but the one I linked uses standard Molex 5557 (Computer PCIe power) connectors if you want to make custom wiring or use attachments not included in the kit.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned the RPM ratings of this motor and claimed the higher RPM is due to losing power at lower RPM, implying these are not a good choice for many applications - that is not true with these motors. These are basically 3-phase motors and the way they change speed is *not* by changing/pulsing voltage. These phase-shift to change speed so that you can keep almost constant torque independent of rotational speed.

Just my $0.02 ;)

-Jay

On 2/4/24 13:02, chrisser via groups.io wrote:

Went down the rabbit hole on these sewing machine motors.

I'm liking them.

I found some sites that show how to add a potentiometer to create a speed control dial to replace the hall effect sensor used in the treadle control. Some conflicting info, but I think I have a couple of combinations of pots and resistors that should work - it's pushing the limits of my electronic competence.

Also found a couple of ways around the clunky reverse control, not that I expect to need it on the drill press, but if I can get the RPMs down low enough, it might be nice to have it as an option for tapping, although I've always preferred being able to feel with a hand tap, even if chucked in the drill press to hold vertical. Since the motor is three-phase, just swapping two phases and one associated hall effect sensor in the motor will reverse, and there are inexpensive 4-pole drum switches on ebay that are rated to the voltage/current without spending too much cash. I even found an emergency switch with three poles that would cut the three phases to the motor.

Think I'm going to pick one up in a few weeks and give it a try. May get another for the 7x lathe - I'm guessing I could sell the original controller board and motor on ebay to close to what the sewing machine motor would cost and gain a little extra power and not have to worry about the control board losing it's smoke sometime down the road.

On Saturday, February 3rd, 2024 at 5:19 PM, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> <mailto:rhulslander@...> wrote:

You might want to consider using a 110 volt 3/4 hp brushless motor off ebay <>.

I use them on my 8520 mill and on my 16" Delta band saw. I also had one on 12x36 lathe.

There are other brushless motors.to <> explore.

Ralph

On Sat, Feb 3, 2024 at 4:26?PM chrisser via groups.io <> <chris.kucia@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

This may be a bit off topic, but I would guess it is applicable for someone wanting to re-motor their lathe.

Have one of those 80s Taiwanese drill presses (Cummins Mack). Motor HP isn't listed but it's probably 1/2 or 3/4HP. 100vac single phase.


Kind of sick of changing belts and thought one of those variable speed motor conversions would be helpful. I read a lot about how inexpensive these are, but I'm just not seeing it.


I probably have 10 motors lying around the shop, all 110VAC single phase of various sizes and RPMs. Looked around for something in the 3/4-1hp range in a 3phase motor on Craigslist, Marketplace, ebay, surplus dealers - they don't seem cheap to me. To get something in the right RPM range (~1700) and standard voltage is at least $100 if not closer to $200. Add another $100-200 for a VFD and that's not my definition of inexpensive. New motors are double that.


Read about using a treadmill motor, but word seems to have gotten around about those. They're in the same price range as the 3phase motors, although the controllers seem cheaper. Buying a couple of random treadmills to hope and get the right size motor that's useable seems like a big PITA and here in rural America, getting rid of the rest of the treadmill without the motor isn't exactly easy or cheap.

Am I looking at the wrong things, or am I just a cheapskate? Maybe both.

I've read it's possible to use a VFD on a single phase motor by bypassing the start capacitor using a start switch to energize it. Having trouble finding good info on what VFD to use. I don't really think I need the drill press to reverse, which is one of the downsides of single phase. Would this be a solution to use the original motor or one of the spares I have lying around?

--
-Jay Fougere

On Feb 4, 2024, at 11:08?AM, Jay Fougere <groupsio@...> wrote:

You can get those sewing machine motors on Amazon for quite a bit less than that ebay listing.

(Note: Not Prime... shipping is $25 on the one listed but you can find them for less shipping - they always land around $100 total though)

I have one now that I am fitting on one of my X2 mini-mills - if it works as well as I expect the 2nd mill will get one too :)

I don't know others, but the one I linked uses standard Molex 5557 (Computer PCIe power) connectors if you want to make custom wiring or use attachments not included in the kit.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned the RPM ratings of this motor and claimed the higher RPM is due to losing power at lower RPM, implying these are not a good choice for many applications - that is not true with these motors. These are basically 3-phase motors and the way they change speed is *not* by changing/pulsing voltage. These phase-shift to change speed so that you can keep almost constant torque independent of rotational speed.

Just my $0.02 ;)

-Jay

On 2/4/24 13:02, chrisser via groups.io wrote:

Went down the rabbit hole on these sewing machine motors.

I'm liking them.

I found some sites that show how to add a potentiometer to create a speed control dial to replace the hall effect sensor used in the treadle control.? Some conflicting info, but I think I have a couple of combinations of pots and resistors that should work - it's pushing the limits of my electronic competence.

Also found a couple of ways around the clunky reverse control, not that I expect to need it on the drill press, but if I can get the RPMs down low enough, it might be nice to have it as an option for tapping, although I've always preferred being able to feel with a hand tap, even if chucked in the drill press to hold vertical.? Since the motor is three-phase, just swapping two phases and one associated hall effect sensor in the motor will reverse, and there are inexpensive 4-pole drum switches on ebay that are rated to the voltage/current without spending too much cash.? I even found an emergency switch with three poles that would cut the three phases to the motor.

Think I'm going to pick one up in a few weeks and give it a try.? May get another for the 7x lathe - I'm guessing I could sell the original controller board and motor on ebay to close to what the sewing machine motor would cost and gain a little extra power and not have to worry about the control board losing it's smoke sometime down the road.

On Saturday, February 3rd, 2024 at 5:19 PM, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:

You might want to consider using a 110 volt .

I use them on my 8520 mill and on my 16" Delta band saw. I also had one on 12x36 lathe.

There are other brushless explore.

Ralph

On Sat, Feb 3, 2024 at 4:26?PM chrisser via <chris.kucia=[email protected]> wrote:

This may be a bit off topic, but I would guess it is applicable for someone wanting to re-motor their lathe.

Have one of those 80s Taiwanese drill presses (Cummins Mack). Motor HP isn't listed but it's probably 1/2 or 3/4HP. 100vac single phase.

Kind of sick of changing belts and thought one of those variable speed motor conversions would be helpful. I read a lot about how inexpensive these are, but I'm just not seeing it.

I probably have 10 motors lying around the shop, all 110VAC single phase of various sizes and RPMs. Looked around for something in the 3/4-1hp range in a 3phase motor on Craigslist, Marketplace, ebay, surplus dealers - they don't seem cheap to me. To get something in the right RPM range (~1700) and standard voltage is at least $100 if not closer to $200. Add another $100-200 for a VFD and that's not my definition of inexpensive. New motors are double that.

Read about using a treadmill motor, but word seems to have gotten around about those. They're in the same price range as the 3phase motors, although the controllers seem cheaper. Buying a couple of random treadmills to hope and get the right size motor that's useable seems like a big PITA and here in rural America, getting rid of the rest of the treadmill without the motor isn't exactly easy or cheap.

Am I looking at the wrong things, or am I just a cheapskate? Maybe both.

I've read it's possible to use a VFD on a single phase motor by bypassing the start capacitor using a start switch to energize it. Having trouble finding good info on what VFD to use. I don't really think I need the drill press to reverse, which is one of the downsides of single phase. Would this be a solution to use the original motor or one of the spares I have lying around?

-- 
-Jay Fougere

What is inside of a sewing motor pedal?

Just a resistor or some electronic?

?

/johannes

?

?

?

?

From: stan campbell via groups.io
Sent: s?ndag 4. februar 2024 14:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Variable speed motors

?

[Edited Message Follows]

I have a 3/4 hp sewing machine motor on my Logan 820. (10 x 24)
It is fantastic. Infinite speed control, small, 10 years ago it was $105 and was complete.
I rigged a rod and wingnut on the foot control.
It also has a speed selector and reverse.
Between the Logans gears and its speed control, I can get lots of torque or speed or both.
Sometimes a motor that can stall is a feature, sometimes it's not.
You can choose.
Sewing machines come in all sizes, like lathes.
EDIT, this looks like the motor I have, but not the same vendor.
https://www.ebay.com/p/2115314045?iid=165523723313

?

?

[Edited Message Follows]

I have a 3/4 hp sewing machine motor on my Logan 820. (10 x 24)
It is fantastic. Infinite speed control, small, 10 years ago it was $105 and was complete.
I rigged a rod and wingnut on the foot control.
It also has a speed selector and reverse.
Between the Logans gears and its speed control, I can get lots of torque or speed or both.
Sometimes a motor that can stall is a feature, sometimes it's not.
You can choose.
Sewing machines come in all sizes, like lathes.
EDIT, this looks like the motor I have, but not the same vendor.
https://www.ebay.com/p/2115314045?iid=165523723313