? Thanks boys. I have got a lot of suggestions, I am overwhelmed of the response, everyone is correct, however not all are “workable? in this Project . I ended up with a very short drill ?and a center drill from FIRST BROWN TOOLS LTD SHEFFIELD England . Both should be of a better quality. They ?smell correct in original paper box. ? The result is better than necessary. Only 600 holes have to be drilled. ? /johannes Mexico ? ?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
What do you use for protection on your motor?
I use the temperature gauge
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 01:29 PM, Tony Smith wrote:
Right, and how is slapping a 100°C cut-off switch on the casing going to help you?? If your casing hits 80°C you are probably already screwed.? What part of “the enamel on the coil will start to fail at around 105°C” are you failing to understand?
?
Tony
?
?
The best wat is to figure out thd outside temperature is when coil is at 105°C. After researching the problem it was between 15°C and 20°C different.??
Basically thd outside temperature of motor is 90° to 85°C on the outside of case when the coil is 105°C.
Even motor manufacturers figure this out for thermal cut off switches.??
The small high speed motor coil is rotating too.?
You see this calculation in first few posts.
Dave?
On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 10:36 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
Yes, but you need to put your sensor on the coils.?
?
Which are on the armature for a brushed motor.?
?
Which are spinning around at high speed.
?
Can you see the problem?
?
Tony
?
?
?
?
I tested the gauge with boiling water witch is 100°C. It was on the mark.?
Note: Use distilled water only
If over 500 foot above some correction is need ti temperature.??
Dave?
On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 08:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
When someone says the motor is at 105 C. ?My question is “How did you calibrate the sensor?” ?Most motors will start to be damaged at 85 C and 105 C is about the limit of what they can take. ? ? I strongly suspect an uncalibrated temperature sensor.
?
?
On May 5, 2024, at 10:38?AM, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
Well it shouldn’t, but I’m not the one trying to measure it.? I don’t know what Dave thinks he’s measuring,?
|
Solder lugs & solenoids? .
animal
On 5/6/24 2:33 PM, David Robertson
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sorry to butt in... you can tell essentially all of my PCB
experience is in older pinball machines!!
David
He’s talking about the
older stuff that was laid out on a 2.54mm (1/10”) grid.?
DIP packages are that size, as are most headers.? Of
course there are 1.27mm headers (1/20”) as well.
?
Most newer stuff is
metric, like the 2mm headers, your 4mm headers, as well as
most SMD stuff.? Or mixed, like 2x7mm LEDs with 1/10”
spaced leads.
?
Tony
?
?
|
Sorry to butt in... you can tell essentially all of my PCB experience is in older pinball machines!!
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
He’s talking about the older stuff that was laid out on a 2.54mm (1/10”) grid.? DIP packages are that size, as are most headers.? Of course there are 1.27mm headers (1/20”) as well.
?
Most newer stuff is metric, like the 2mm headers, your 4mm headers, as well as most SMD stuff.? Or mixed, like 2x7mm LEDs with 1/10” spaced leads.
?
Tony
?
?
?
Not to be argumentative, but .156 in (common on pin headers) is 4 mm.
Most do not know most holes on pc board are layout in inch.
Dave?
|
Actually, while it used to be when Gerber invented the machines and format that everything was in imperial, the current Gerber Layout Format Specifications says:
"Use metric. Imperial is historic and will be deprecated at a future date."
It is fairly easy for most PCB Gerber files to be auto-recognized for units (a drill of 30mils is 0.0300 inches, which is too small to be a metric dimension).
On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 12:56?PM davesmith1800? wrote:
Most do not know most holes on pc board are layout in inch.
--
Buffalo John
|
That was true years ago back when ICs were through-hole devices with 0.1 inch pitch where common. ? Times have changed and now ICs are surface mounted with no holes. ? ?But we do still see connectors with 0.1” pitch in prototype and hobby electronics but mainstream parts are now MUCH smaller.
In fact, I’d say that finding an engineer who knows how to work with inches is hard except for some older ones living in the US. ? I may have been the last of the students who still had to work a very few problems in inches and pounds just so that we’d know how. ? This is at UCLA in the 1980s. ?I’ve heard they have stopped doing this., ?Later i ended up teaching some science classes (in the 2010s, in the US), the textbooks were 100% SI units
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Most do not know most holes on pc board are layout in inch.
|
He’s talking about the older stuff that was laid out on a 2.54mm (1/10”) grid.? DIP packages are that size, as are most headers.? Of course there are 1.27mm headers (1/20”) as well. ? Most newer stuff is metric, like the 2mm headers, your 4mm headers, as well as most SMD stuff.? Or mixed, like 2x7mm LEDs with 1/10” spaced leads. ? Tony ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Robertson via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2024 6:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Drill a Hole? Not to be argumentative, but .156 in (common on pin headers) is 4 mm.
Most do not know most holes on pc board are layout in inch.
Dave?
|
Not to be argumentative, but .156 in (common on pin headers) is 4 mm.
David Robertson.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Most do not know most holes on pc board are layout in inch.
Dave?
|
|
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
Right, and how is slapping a 100°C cut-off switch on the casing going to help you?? If your casing hits 80°C you are probably already screwed.? What part of “the enamel on the coil will start to fail at around 105°C” are you failing to understand? ? Tony ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of davesmith1800 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2024 4:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Mini lathe motor temperature? The best wat is to figure out thd outside temperature is when coil is at 105°C. After researching the problem it was between 15°C and 20°C different.??
Basically thd outside temperature of motor is 90° to 85°C on the outside of case when the coil is 105°C.
Even motor manufacturers figure this out for thermal cut off switches.??
The small high speed motor coil is rotating too.?
You see this calculation in first few posts.
Dave?
On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 10:36 AM, Tony Smith wrote: Yes, but you need to put your sensor on the coils.? ? Which are on the armature for a brushed motor.? ? Which are spinning around at high speed. ? Can you see the problem? ? Tony ? ? ? ? I tested the gauge with boiling water witch is 100°C. It was on the mark.?
Note: Use distilled water only
If over 500 foot above some correction is need ti temperature.??
Dave?
On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 08:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: When someone says the motor is at 105 C. ?My question is “How did you calibrate the sensor?” ?Most motors will start to be damaged at 85 C and 105 C is about the limit of what they can take. ? ? I strongly suspect an uncalibrated temperature sensor. ? ? On May 5, 2024, at 10:38?AM, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote: Well it shouldn’t, but I’m not the one trying to measure it.? I don’t know what Dave thinks he’s measuring,?
|
Most do not know most holes on pc board are layout in inch.
Dave?
|
The PCB drills are these: , or carbide .? ? 3mm & under are cheap because they use these by the millions in electronics manufacturing.? Over 3mm tends to get expensive quite fast. ? Circuit boards are generally about 1mm thick, so these drills are only 5-10mm long.? They’re very sharp, I once drilled a hole thru a coin just by spinning one between my fingers.? Yes, I was bored. ? Tony ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Johannes via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 6 May 2024 11:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Drill a Hole? Hi Mike I have not found my shop yet, it is here somewhere. Home depot is ok, however not for the most I am doing. Mostly I get my stuff from China.? Johannes ? Lavoll. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
On 5 May 2024, at 16:46, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
? ????? A bit off topic but Johanes I'm wondering if you have supply houses where you can get drills & lathe bits in your p[art of the country . I have one that @ 50 miles from me in Reno & another in Carson City @ 80 miles from me so it's not out of the question to make a drive for something if I really need it . thanks animal On 5/5/24 11:57 AM, Johannes wrote: ? Thanks Tony I learned a new word to day: spotting drill I had one in my box, always wounder how it looks so “funny” . It was also not good to drill a 10 mm hole with. To morrow I will check my center drills , maybe I will find one packed in a oily paper, packed in a red box. /johannes Mexico ? ? ? Use a spotting drill to make a pilot hole.? They're roughly the same thing as a centre drill except wider tip angle (centre drill is 60 degree). ? Then again a centre drill would probably work just fine given you're only drilling 1mm holes. ? ?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
The best wat is to figure out thd outside temperature is when coil is at 105°C. After researching the problem it was between 15°C and 20°C different.??
Basically thd outside temperature of motor is 90° to 85°C on the outside of case when the coil is 105°C.
Even motor manufacturers figure this out for thermal cut off switches.??
The small high speed motor coil is rotating too.?
You see this calculation in first few posts.
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 10:36 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
Yes, but you need to put your sensor on the coils.?
?
Which are on the armature for a brushed motor.?
?
Which are spinning around at high speed.
?
Can you see the problem?
?
Tony
?
?
?
?
I tested the gauge with boiling water witch is 100°C. It was on the mark.?
Note: Use distilled water only
If over 500 foot above some correction is need ti temperature.??
Dave?
On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 08:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
When someone says the motor is at 105 C. ?My question is “How did you calibrate the sensor?” ?Most motors will start to be damaged at 85 C and 105 C is about the limit of what they can take. ? ? I strongly suspect an uncalibrated temperature sensor.
?
?
On May 5, 2024, at 10:38?AM, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
Well it shouldn’t, but I’m not the one trying to measure it.? I don’t know what Dave thinks he’s measuring,?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
Yes, but you need to put your sensor on the coils.? ? Which are on the armature for a brushed motor.? ? Which are spinning around at high speed. ? Can you see the problem? ? Tony ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of davesmith1800 via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 6 May 2024 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Mini lathe motor temperature? I tested the gauge with boiling water witch is 100°C. It was on the mark.?
Note: Use distilled water only
If over 500 foot above some correction is need ti temperature.??
Dave?
On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 08:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: When someone says the motor is at 105 C. ?My question is “How did you calibrate the sensor?” ?Most motors will start to be damaged at 85 C and 105 C is about the limit of what they can take. ? ? I strongly suspect an uncalibrated temperature sensor. ? ? On May 5, 2024, at 10:38?AM, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote: Well it shouldn’t, but I’m not the one trying to measure it.? I don’t know what Dave thinks he’s measuring,?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
I tested the gauge with boiling water witch is 100°C. It was on the mark.?
Note: Use distilled water only
If over 500 foot above some correction is need ti temperature.??
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 08:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
When someone says the motor is at 105 C. ?My question is “How did you calibrate the sensor?” ?Most motors will start to be damaged at 85 C and 105 C is about the limit of what they can take. ? ? I strongly suspect an uncalibrated temperature sensor.
?
?
?
?
On May 5, 2024, at 10:38?AM, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
Well it shouldn’t, but I’m not the one trying to measure it.? I don’t know what Dave thinks he’s measuring,?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
When someone says the motor is at 105 C. ?My question is “How did you calibrate the sensor?” ?Most motors will start to be damaged at 85 C and 105 C is about the limit of what they can take. ? ? I strongly suspect an uncalibrated temperature sensor.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 5, 2024, at 10:38?AM, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
Well it shouldn’t, but I’m not the one trying to measure it.? I don’t know what Dave thinks he’s measuring,?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
With temperature gauge I can see I needs to run at full speed
It low cost cost item to save from buying a $160.00 motor .
1) I first was think of using a time delay fuse.? The remember thd low speed may not use full ampage.?
2) Next fan sounds great but fan gets block of dies not good.?
3) Then thermal switch ok but motor is And not running.?
I want to before it happens so take it easy or a coffee with lathe running to cool down. I also did find after the motor burn up and is ready for new motor.?
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 07:51 AM, ram50v8efi wrote:
Dave, I am wondering.... Have you been running the motor at less than full speed? The cooling on these is typically based on the motor running at full speed so the fan can move enough air to maintain somewhat reasonable cooling. If you find you are running the lathe slower then I would recommend either an increased reduction belt drive (so the motor can run faster whilst keeping the spindle speed lower) and/or a separate cooling fan for the motor.?
On my first heavily modified mini I added a cover to the rear of the motor and attached some light flexible hose (Hoover vac hose) that is attached to a small squirrel cage blower with a bit of filter media on the blower inlet. This keeps the motor cooler and also keeps swarf from being taken in the motor.
Just my thoughts, Cheers
|
Thanks Johannes
animal
On 5/5/24 6:24 PM, Johannes wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Mike
I have not found my shop yet, it is here somewhere. Home
depot is ok, however not for the most I am doing. Mostly I get
my stuff from China.?
Johannes ? Lavoll. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
????? A bit off topic but Johanes I'm wondering if you
have supply houses where you can get drills & lathe
bits in your p[art of the country . I have one that @ 50
miles from me in Reno & another in Carson City @ 80
miles from me so it's not out of the question to make a
drive for something if I really need it .
thanks
animal
On 5/5/24 11:57 AM, Johannes
wrote:
?
Thanks Tony
I learned a
new word to day: spotting drill
I had one in my box, always wounder how
it looks so “funny” . It was also not good to drill
a 10 mm hole with.
To morrow I will check my center drills
, maybe I will find one packed in a oily paper,
packed in a red box.
/johannes
Mexico
?
?
?
Use a spotting drill to make a
pilot hole.? They're roughly the same thing
as a centre drill except wider tip
angle (centre drill is 60 degree).
?
Then again a centre drill would
probably work just fine given you're only
drilling 1mm holes.
?
?
|
Hi Mike I have not found my shop yet, it is here somewhere. Home depot is ok, however not for the most I am doing. Mostly I get my stuff from China.? Johannes ? Lavoll. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 5 May 2024, at 16:46, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
?
????? A bit off topic but Johanes I'm wondering if you have
supply houses where you can get drills & lathe bits in your
p[art of the country . I have one that @ 50 miles from me in Reno
& another in Carson City @ 80 miles from me so it's not out of
the question to make a drive for something if I really need it .
thanks
animal
On 5/5/24 11:57 AM, Johannes wrote:
?
Thanks Tony
I learned a new word
to day: spotting drill
I had one in my box, always wounder how it
looks so “funny” . It was also not good to drill a 10 mm
hole with.
To morrow I will check my center drills , maybe
I will find one packed in a oily paper, packed in a red box.
/johannes
Mexico
?
?
?
Use a spotting drill to make a pilot hole.?
They're roughly the same thing
as a centre drill except wider tip angle
(centre drill is 60 degree).
?
Then again a centre drill would probably
work just fine given you're only
drilling 1mm holes.
?
?
|
Re: Mini lathe motor temperature
The Guage is from Walmart it cost under $14.00
It is also on Amazon for about same price.?
My wife has free shipping on Walmart.?
Dave?
|
Johannes
davesmith1800
BuffaloJohn