Re: Variable speed motors
I was thinking something like that, or a powered tailstock.? The treadmill include motors look exactly the same as those seat ones, just a bit beefier. ? Tony ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bruce J
Sent: Thursday, 8 February 2024 9:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Variable speed motors? ?The Jan/Feb 2024 Home Shop Machinist has a cover article about making a power X axis drive for a mini-mill table that uses a 12V car seat motor (American Science and Surplus has been selling them forever; there must be warehouses full of these things??) You could probably modify that little gear motor for that purpose.?
? Most of the ones you¡¯ll find will have a 100v-ish DC brushed motor rated for about 0.5 ¨C 1HP, which is as good as or better than what our 7x12 lathe have, especially the older ones. Very similar to what the lathes have, you can actually use the minilathe controller to run them in a lot of cases. They¡¯re rated for continuous use and even have a big flywheel, very handy. Ones from commercial machines tend to be higher DC voltage or AC. Some treadmills also have a small motor with a gear box for raising and lowering the bed (incline), I have a few of those but never really looked at them.? They¡¯re low RPM (~50) & high torque, but what are you going to do with a 100mm linear drive?? You could use it as a clamp if you¡¯ve got the patience, or make a press etc.? Of course you could always make a longer shaft, you do have a lathe after all. The driver boards can be tricky to use as they¡¯re controlled by the main panel, and there¡¯s very little info as to what the communications spec is.? Thankfully PWM controllers are very cheap. I see why Treadmill motors are popular.?
On trash day you go down the street and pickup for free Treadmills. All you need to do is remove a new motor.?
Dave Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a lot of homework & shared it .
? --?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism. ?
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Re: Variable speed motors
I used a stepper motor to drive the X axis on my mini mill.? It actually works great? Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
?The Jan/Feb 2024 Home Shop Machinist has a cover article about making a power X axis drive for a mini-mill table that uses a 12V car seat motor (American Science and Surplus has been selling them forever; there must be warehouses full of these things??) You could probably modify that little gear motor for that purpose.?
Most of the ones you¡¯ll find will have a 100v-ish DC brushed motor rated for about 0.5 ¨C 1HP, which is as good as or better than what our 7x12 lathe have, especially the older ones. ? Very similar to what the lathes have, you can actually use the minilathe controller to run them in a lot of cases. ? They¡¯re rated for continuous use and even have a big flywheel, very handy. ? Ones from commercial machines tend to be higher DC voltage or AC. ? Some treadmills also have a small motor with a gear box for raising and lowering the bed (incline), I have a few of those but never really looked at them.? They¡¯re low RPM (~50) & high torque, but what are you going to do with a 100mm linear drive?? You could use it as a clamp if you¡¯ve got the patience, or make a press etc.? Of course you could always make a longer shaft, you do have a lathe after all. ? The driver boards can be tricky to use as they¡¯re controlled by the main panel, and there¡¯s very little info as to what the communications spec is.? Thankfully PWM controllers are very cheap. ? Tony ? ? ? I see why Treadmill motors are popular.?
On trash day you go down the street and pickup for free Treadmills. All you need to do is remove a new motor.?
Dave mike allen
Feb 6? ?
Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a lot of homework & shared it .
?.
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
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Re: Variable speed motors
?The Jan/Feb 2024 Home Shop Machinist has a cover article about making a power X axis drive for a mini-mill table that uses a 12V car seat motor (American Science and Surplus has been selling them forever; there must be warehouses full of these things??) You could probably modify that little gear motor for that purpose.? On Feb 7, 2024, at 3:14 PM, Tony Smith <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
Most of the ones you¡¯ll find will have a 100v-ish DC brushed motor rated for about 0.5 ¨C 1HP, which is as good as or better than what our 7x12 lathe have, especially the older ones. ? Very similar to what the lathes have, you can actually use the minilathe controller to run them in a lot of cases. ? They¡¯re rated for continuous use and even have a big flywheel, very handy. ? Ones from commercial machines tend to be higher DC voltage or AC. ? Some treadmills also have a small motor with a gear box for raising and lowering the bed (incline), I have a few of those but never really looked at them.? They¡¯re low RPM (~50) & high torque, but what are you going to do with a 100mm linear drive?? You could use it as a clamp if you¡¯ve got the patience, or make a press etc.? Of course you could always make a longer shaft, you do have a lathe after all. ? The driver boards can be tricky to use as they¡¯re controlled by the main panel, and there¡¯s very little info as to what the communications spec is.? Thankfully PWM controllers are very cheap. ? Tony ? ? ? I see why Treadmill motors are popular.?
On trash day you go down the street and pickup for free Treadmills. All you need to do is remove a new motor.?
Dave mike allen
Feb 6? ?
Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a lot of homework & shared it .
?.
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
|
Re: Variable speed motors
Most of the ones you¡¯ll find will have a 100v-ish DC brushed motor rated for about 0.5 ¨C 1HP, which is as good as or better than what our 7x12 lathe have, especially the older ones. ? Very similar to what the lathes have, you can actually use the minilathe controller to run them in a lot of cases. ? They¡¯re rated for continuous use and even have a big flywheel, very handy. ? Ones from commercial machines tend to be higher DC voltage or AC. ? Some treadmills also have a small motor with a gear box for raising and lowering the bed (incline), I have a few of those but never really looked at them.? They¡¯re low RPM (~50) & high torque, but what are you going to do with a 100mm linear drive?? You could use it as a clamp if you¡¯ve got the patience, or make a press etc.? Of course you could always make a longer shaft, you do have a lathe after all. ? The driver boards can be tricky to use as they¡¯re controlled by the main panel, and there¡¯s very little info as to what the communications spec is.? Thankfully PWM controllers are very cheap. ? Tony ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of davesmith1800
Sent: Thursday, 8 February 2024 3:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Variable speed motors? I see why Treadmill motors are popular.?
On trash day you go down the street and pickup for free Treadmills. All you need to do is remove a new motor.?
Dave mike allen
Feb 6? ?
Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a lot of homework & shared it .
.
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Re: Variable speed motors
Paul Fox
9:07am? ?
Mike -- good guess -- my bandsaw is using an MC-60 controller. The pot was connected directly
Any photos you post of ban saw? Dave?
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Re: Variable speed motors
Mike -- good guess -- my bandsaw is using an MC-60 controller.? The pot was connected directly.
Thanks for the info on the MC-2100, and on the youtube stuff.? I'll take a look.
Tracy -- do you happen to know which controllers you have?
This is a low-priority background project for me -- I've been living with the bandsaw as it is for many years, so it can't annoy me _that_ much.? But if it were a simple fix, it would be worthwhile.
Happily, my LMS 5100 mini lathe seems to have its motor well sorted out, so no worries there.? (That's good, since there are plenty of other things that aren't well sorted out on the lathe! :-) )
paul
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Re: Variable speed motors
I see why Treadmill motors are popular.?
On trash day you go down the street and pickup for free Treadmills. All you need to do is remove a new motor.?
Dave
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mike allen
Feb 6? ?
Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a lot of homework & shared it .
https://www.facebook.com/groups/shopsmithdigital .
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Re: Variable speed motors
Paul
I have a couple treadmill driver boards that I used to drive a treadmill motor on my mini lathe if you¡¯re interested? Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 7:25?PM mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all
about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a
lot of homework & shared it .
.
Was the pot from the console hooked up directly to the MC60 or
did the 3 wires go to the other board first that you didn't use ?
Some of those " other " boards have a 7 or maybe is a 8 pin
connector that has a PWM input on it & ya can get much better
control using a PWM generator from Amazon for @ 15 bucks . That
could be the reason for the 120K pot instead of the I think 5K
that everyone post's that they used .
Dazecars on
youtube has a tube about them & there several others that have
posted about these also .
animal
On 2/6/24 8:14 AM, Paul Fox wrote:
Evan -- thanks for the link to your YT channel, and for sharing
your motor conversion.? You might have an opinion on or answer to
something I've wondered for a while.
I used a treadmill motor to power my (wood) bandsaw some years
ago.? When I did, I reused the motor controller from the treadmill
-- speed control was by a simple pot, which made it easy.? But I
find that sometimes the saw will bog down or even stall when it
seems like the motor should have plenty of power.
Do you know, or have you heard, whether using an aftermarket
controller like yours might provide more power?? Are the treadmill
controllers specifically designed to be limiting in some way?? My
motor's specs are 120V, 21A, 2.5HP, 7000 rpm, but the
documentation I've found on the controller doesn't give specifics
regarding output current.? The schematic does imply that it puts
out the full 120V.? I did a whole web page on my bandsaw -- the
motor/controller parts are here:??
?.?
(Note that there are captions on all of the individual pictures in
addition to the intro paragraph on that page.)
Any thoughts would be most welcome!
paul
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Re: Variable speed motors
Paul I forgot to mention if ya do facebook there's a group all
about treadmill motors on Shopsmith's , Some guys that have done a
lot of homework & shared it .
.
Was the pot from the console hooked up directly to the MC60 or
did the 3 wires go to the other board first that you didn't use ?
Some of those " other " boards have a 7 or maybe is a 8 pin
connector that has a PWM input on it & ya can get much better
control using a PWM generator from Amazon for @ 15 bucks . That
could be the reason for the 120K pot instead of the I think 5K
that everyone post's that they used .
Dazecars on
youtube has a tube about them & there several others that have
posted about these also .
animal
On 2/6/24 8:14 AM, Paul Fox wrote:
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Evan -- thanks for the link to your YT channel, and for sharing
your motor conversion.? You might have an opinion on or answer to
something I've wondered for a while.
I used a treadmill motor to power my (wood) bandsaw some years
ago.? When I did, I reused the motor controller from the treadmill
-- speed control was by a simple pot, which made it easy.? But I
find that sometimes the saw will bog down or even stall when it
seems like the motor should have plenty of power.
Do you know, or have you heard, whether using an aftermarket
controller like yours might provide more power?? Are the treadmill
controllers specifically designed to be limiting in some way?? My
motor's specs are 120V, 21A, 2.5HP, 7000 rpm, but the
documentation I've found on the controller doesn't give specifics
regarding output current.? The schematic does imply that it puts
out the full 120V.? I did a whole web page on my bandsaw -- the
motor/controller parts are here:??
?.?
(Note that there are captions on all of the individual pictures in
addition to the intro paragraph on that page.)
Any thoughts would be most welcome!
paul
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Cutting a 32mm thread on a mini lathe
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Re: Variable speed motors
??? So I'm guessin that you probably have a MC-40 up to a MC-60
motor control board ? These aren't the best TM controller to use ,
though folks like then because all ya need is a pot to make them
work . The MC-2100 is a much better controller , it uses PWM to
control the motor speed . Their a bit more complicated to use but
they work pretty darn good . I have has? a TM motor with e MC-2100
on my South Bend 9A lathe for several years now & love it .
I'm using a 2100 & a small board I bought off a guy inline for
the speed control .There's also those SCR controllers that folks
use from Amazon & the other usual suspects , that along with a
good bridge rectifier & yer off , Some of these SCR are good
& the rest are garbage . There's a guy on youtube that has
done a lot of the homework on treadmill motors , chek him out ,
his handle is DazeCars I see that he put up a new one a few days
ago .
animal
On 2/6/24 8:14 AM, Paul Fox wrote:
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Evan -- thanks for the link to your YT channel, and for sharing
your motor conversion.? You might have an opinion on or answer to
something I've wondered for a while.
I used a treadmill motor to power my (wood) bandsaw some years
ago.? When I did, I reused the motor controller from the treadmill
-- speed control was by a simple pot, which made it easy.? But I
find that sometimes the saw will bog down or even stall when it
seems like the motor should have plenty of power.
Do you know, or have you heard, whether using an aftermarket
controller like yours might provide more power?? Are the treadmill
controllers specifically designed to be limiting in some way?? My
motor's specs are 120V, 21A, 2.5HP, 7000 rpm, but the
documentation I've found on the controller doesn't give specifics
regarding output current.? The schematic does imply that it puts
out the full 120V.? I did a whole web page on my bandsaw -- the
motor/controller parts are here:??
?.?
(Note that there are captions on all of the individual pictures in
addition to the intro paragraph on that page.)
Any thoughts would be most welcome!
paul
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Re: Variable speed motors
Thanks WAM, possibly the foot speed control I swapped out with a 20k pot was a?
photocell and vane not the hall effect and magnet. I did not do anything with the pot other than mounting it on my lathe like you would do with any other pot in an electronics project.
I used the Consew motor with the pot on my lathe for three or four years. Eventually something started happening with the motor. I started to get errors on the control box. I could not figure out what was happening so I changed the motor setup to a direct drive Servo/Stepper motor.
I have not done any work with the direct drive, only tested that it ran!
Ralph
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 12:34?PM Johannes < johannes@...> wrote: Motor is a popular discussion subject for us lathe owners, and many solutions have been precented. However, (maybe I am blind and have memory losses) , I can not see any stepper motor. The price is ok, even with shipping cost from China, you can run it nice with a pot meter. Full power from first revolution. However, the high speed revolution are low compare with a normal motor. To run the lathe to 2500 rev can be difficult. ? Someone has a simple answer? ? /johannes ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 12:51 PM, chrisser wrote: Any special considerations on the wiring other than being sure there's no way for it to short to the chassis?
The body of the pot shouldn't be connected to any of the potentiometer elements, that would cause all sorts of mayhem for many designs that use them.? Just make sure the device pins are covered with heat-shrink and you should be OK.? Of course, you don't want to expose the pot to cutting fluid.?
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Re: Variable speed motors
Motor is a popular discussion subject for us lathe owners, and many solutions have been precented. However, (maybe I am blind and have memory losses) , I can not see any stepper motor. The price is ok, even with shipping cost from China, you can run it nice with a pot meter. Full power from first revolution. However, the high speed revolution are low compare with a normal motor. To run the lathe to 2500 rev can be difficult. ? Someone has a simple answer? ? /johannes ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From: Mark KimballSent: tysdag 6. februar 2024 10:46 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] Variable speed motors ? On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 12:51 PM, chrisser wrote: Any special considerations on the wiring other than being sure there's no way for it to short to the chassis?
The body of the pot shouldn't be connected to any of the potentiometer elements, that would cause all sorts of mayhem for many designs that use them.? Just make sure the device pins are covered with heat-shrink and you should be OK.? Of course, you don't want to expose the pot to cutting fluid.?
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What is interesting about wring is try with Aluminum or some types of stainless they would weld together not wring like like gauge block steel.??
Dave?
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Re: Variable speed motors
On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 12:51 PM, chrisser wrote:
Any special considerations on the wiring other than being sure there's no way for it to short to the chassis?
The body of the pot shouldn't be connected to any of the potentiometer elements, that would cause all sorts of mayhem for many designs that use them.? Just make sure the device pins are covered with heat-shrink and you should be OK.? Of course, you don't want to expose the pot to cutting fluid.?
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It is likely a combination of forces:?
1: an extremely thin film of residual oil 2: the afore-mentioned air pressure 3: Van der Waals forces between the gage blocks
(Note 1 and 3 are substantially the same, because the oil molecules ¡¯stick¡¯ to surfaces via van der waals forces as well. ?¡¯Surface Tension¡¯ is a manifestation of that)
On Feb 6, 2024, at 7:19 AM, Ellis Cory via groups.io <ellis103@...> wrote:
Hi Helge. He didn't seem to come to any conclusion, despite several
attempts.
I'm not sure how precise the experiment was. Is the equipment, a plastic
bucket and glass or plastic cover, up to the job ?
Despite the meter readings, which could display what the vacuum pump was
achieving, I'm not convinced that there was a complete airtight seal.
Other than that, as posters mentioned below the video, what other
explanations are there ?
??????????Ellis
Cody over at the Youtube channel Cody's lab has a vacuum chamber with which
he did some tests to try to confirm this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNEvS_bjKIo
In his words: "Nope".
--
Helge
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
|
Re: Variable speed motors
Evan -- thanks for the link to your YT channel, and for sharing your motor conversion.? You might have an opinion on or answer to something I've wondered for a while.
I used a treadmill motor to power my (wood) bandsaw some years ago.? When I did, I reused the motor controller from the treadmill -- speed control was by a simple pot, which made it easy.? But I find that sometimes the saw will bog down or even stall when it seems like the motor should have plenty of power.
Do you know, or have you heard, whether using an aftermarket controller like yours might provide more power?? Are the treadmill controllers specifically designed to be limiting in some way?? My motor's specs are 120V, 21A, 2.5HP, 7000 rpm, but the documentation I've found on the controller doesn't give specifics regarding output current.? The schematic does imply that it puts out the full 120V.? I did a whole web page on my bandsaw -- the motor/controller parts are here:??
?.? (Note that there are captions on all of the individual pictures in addition to the intro paragraph on that page.)
Any thoughts would be most welcome!
paul
|
Hi Helge. He didn't seem to come to any conclusion, despite several
attempts.
I'm not sure how precise the experiment was. Is the equipment, a plastic
bucket and glass or plastic cover, up to the job ?
Despite the meter readings, which could display what the vacuum pump was
achieving, I'm not convinced that there was a complete airtight seal.
Other than that, as posters mentioned below the video, what other
explanations are there ?
Ellis
Cody over at the Youtube channel Cody's lab has a vacuum chamber with which
he did some tests to try to confirm this:
In his words: "Nope".
--
Helge
|
Re: Variable speed motors
I've posted many times on here about the Consew's.? The CS1000 I use had a photocell and vane that was the foot pedal control.? For this motor, it was easy to just replace it with a pot.
- see my CNC machine here:
- and on my Deckel clone here:
WARNING - it is a hot chassis.? Use a diff probe; see this vid:
What happens if you don't:
The CS1000 requires a bit of circuitry to get it to reverse
Also see Gaston's page for CSM1000 speed control:
And as to Consew changing anything to make it easy for us CNC guys;
I hope I really don't offend anyone with this - reality sucks.
Here's the way I got it from the guys at consew when I talked to them in
several calls about two years ago -
ME: - you should really look at the CNC and small machine shop market -
these are great for spindle motors
Consew: How many you think sell in that market? A few thousand?
ME: Uh....
Consew: Our market easy... we sell to sweat shops in 3rd world country
that make cheap walmart clothes... place burn down we sell more...
ME: Uh....
Consew: Do you know how many sewing machine on one floor of building in
Dhaka?
When it opened in 2009 the Tazreen Fashion factory employed 1,630
workers and produced T-shirts, polo shirts and jackets for various
companies and organizations.[7] These included the US Marines,[8][9]
Dutch company C&A, the American company Walmart and Hong Kong-based
company Li & Fung.[7][10] The factory is part of The Tuba group which is
a major exporter of garments from Bangladesh into the U.S., Germany,
France, Italy and the Netherlands. Its major clients include Walmart,
Carrefour and IKEA.[11]
ME: Uh...
Consew: And they no bitch... motor go, they happy. Not some cranky hobby
guy no like silly little thing...
ME: Uh.... Ok, Thanks... bye.
That's about what I got out of it....
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On 2/5/2024 12:50 PM, chrisser via groups.io wrote: I've read the same thread.
Curious what steps would be needed to be safe. Guessing mounting the pot in a plastic box and using a plastic knob would do a lot. Any special considerations on the wiring other than being sure there's no way for it to short to the chassis?
Sent from Proton Mail mobile
-------- Original Message --------
On Feb 5, 2024, 12:42?PM, Mark Kimball wrote:
On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 10:55 PM, Johannes wrote:
What is inside of a sewing motor pedal?
Just a resistor or some electronic? As mentioned by chrisser, they use a hall effect magnetic field sensor and a magnet. It is possible to replace all that with a potentiometer and a couple of resistors but there are a couple of things you need to be aware of. The first is that the sensor-magnet scheme isn't all that linear with respect to distance, so the RPMs vs. pot setting may not be very linear. A tach can address this.
The second is that the motor controller expects a certain amount of current flowing through the sensor chip and goes into an error condition if it doesn't "see" it. This is to detect if the pedal assembly is plugged in or not. IIRC, the hall effect sensor draws something on the order of 4mA.
I found a discussion [here]() that may be helpful. Particularly the comments on the schematic indicating that the control voltage may be "floating" at a rather high voltage. This may be another reason for using a noncontact control device like the hall effect sensor.
Stay safe!
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[Default] On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 09:13:02 -0000, "Ellis Cory via groups.io" <ellis103@...> wrote: The simple answer is, wringing the blocks together expels any air between them.
So that the air pressure outside the blocks presses them and keeps them together. Cody over at the Youtube channel Cody's lab has a vacuum chamber with which he did some tests to try to confirm this: In his words: "Nope". -- Helge
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T
davesmith1800
Johannes
