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Re: New topic ¡ª- Cutting a thread for a very old wooden clamp.
Groups.io ?7x12MiniLathe Topics Date? New topic ¡ª- Cutting a thread for a very old wooden clamp. ?davesmith1800 Jan 28? ? I did remember thread needs to be loose fit , corse thead and acme profile is best. Dave? ?Reply Like More Bill Williams Jan 28? ? Great look but IMHO the metal screws are better! Bill in Boulder toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ?Reply Like More DAVID WILLIAMS Jan 28? ? Dear All, My original one, (complete) is probably 150 years old, possibly more. The broken one is probably the same vintage, albeit smaller. This is the one I would like to restore at some point. I have got quite a few clamps for woodworking but the working one has the longest reach. The original thread(s) measures ~ 5/8¡± x ~ 6. Look at the detailed image.(You can see even the 6 TPI is not perfect.) JFI - Hence my scribble says ¡°Seems to be ~ 5/8 x 6 TPI. (I¡¯m sure you all understand but just in case the symbol for approximately is ~.)? ?I don¡¯t think anyone makes a 5/8 x 6 wood tap/die any more. Hence my request for assistance and using my 7 x 12 mini lathe. (Dare I mention the words after the recent discussion ?. ?) I was wondering if I could increase the thread to the more usual 3/4¡± x 6?? I think(?) the thread is made of beech. I hope this is useful. Thank you to all those who have offered help and assistance.? PS As we all say, ¡°You never stop learning - Every day is a day at school! Regards, David (UK) toggle quoted messageShow quoted text image1.jpeg image2.jpeg image3.jpeg ?Reply Unlike More ?You liked this Bruce J Jan 29? ? The Woodwright¡¯s shop on PBS has a episode on making a screw box (aka die) for wooden threads: Mezzanine_570.jpg The Woodwright's Shop | Screw Box for Wooden Threads | Season 27 | Episode 4 | PBS pbs.org This appears to be free to watch. On Jan 29, 2024, at 12:30 AM, DAVID WILLIAMS via groups.io <d.i.williams@...> wrote: Dear All, My original one, (complete) is probably 150 years old, possibly more. The broken one is probably the same vintage, albeit smaller. This is the one I would like to restore at some point. I have got quite a few clamps for woodworking but the working one has the longest reach. The original thread(s) measures ~ 5/8¡± x ~ 6. Look at the detailed image.(You can see even the 6 TPI is not perfect.) JFI - Hence my scribble says ¡°Seems to be ~ 5/8 x 6 TPI. (I¡¯m sure you all understand but just in case the symbol for approximately is ~.) I don¡¯t think anyone makes a 5/8 x 6 wood tap/die any more. Hence my request for assistance and using my 7 x 12 mini lathe. (Dare I mention the words after the recent discussion ?. ?) I was wondering if I could increase the thread to the more usual 3/4¡± x 6? I think(?) the thread is made of beech. I hope this is useful. Thank you to all those who have offered help and assistance.? PS As we all say, ¡°You never stop learning - Every day is a day at school! Regards, David (UK) On 28 Jan 2024, at 20:03, mike allen <animal@...> wrote: like these ? https://ponyjorgensen.com/product/classic-jorgensen-adjustable-handscrew/ thanks animal On 1/28/24 12:01 PM, David Wiseman wrote: They are of the style of an engineers hand clamp but really HUGE in comparison and of course made of wood. Best regards David On 28 Jan 2024, at 19:01, mike allen <animal@...> wrote: Are these clamps the " hand screw " clamps ? They have left & right hand threads . I've never seen a set with wooden screws . ? ?animal On 1/15/24 11:39 PM, DAVID WILLIAMS via groups.io wrote: Dear All, I realise this is both part Mini lathe and part wood lathe. But to me the metal lathe part is more important. Hence my question to you all. I have a couple of these old wooden clamps - probably antique. They are just like the metalwork ones we use, but much much larger. One has a severely damaged (external) threads. I would like to try(?) and cut the replacement long wooden thread on my 7 x 12. So, I bought a second hand thread chaser on eBay. It¡¯s 6 TPI and according to the chart on the Little Machine Shop site - the gear set up is no problem on my imperial lathe. [JFI it¡¯s Real Bull model purchased from Chester Machines (in the UK) some 20+ years ago. If that¡¯s at all relevant?] The thread chaser cuts multiple threads at the same time and the tool (normally hand held I understand) needs to be held at ~ 90 degrees to the thread, unlike the usual angle for cutting one side of a metal thread. OR, if you are doing it by hand, do you angle the thread chaser so it cuts a series of slightly deeper threads. Thus the tool needs to be held in the tool post at a similar angle? Assuming I can sharpen it correctly and clamp it to the tool post, can anyone offer any suggestions or guidance? Do you cut it in multiple passes, in a similar way to a metal thread? I assume I¡¯m going to have to make and use some sort of a travelling steady. My idea is to clamp it in the chuck and use a small freely rotating chuck at the tailstock end. I believe I can get a much better quality and accurate thread using the gears than trying to use it hand held - on a very long tool holder, the same as the ones on a wood lathe. I have to check but I think the wood for the screws is normally Beech, if that¡¯s relevant? Thank you in anticipation. David of Abingdon(UK) <image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg> --? Bruce Johnson The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism. ?Reply Unlike More ?You liked this Jacques Savard Jan 29? ? do you see this https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/711146597438836801/?e_t=1d65d75c52fb426990d75e345a8b2185&news_hub_id=5344718208968478103&utm_campaign=homefeednewpins&utm_content=711146597438836801&utm_medium=2025&utm_source=31&utm_term=8 interessting jack 47 71 ?Reply Like More DAVID WILLIAMS Jan 29? ? Thank you. I¡¯ll watch it.? As I said every one had been amazingly helpful. I may have to actually make a die or thread chaser as 6 TPI doesn¡¯t seem a perfect march.? (It reminds me of antique gun threads - really odd in the UK. eg the ramrod of the 1853 Enfield, (used in your civil war, I believe) had a pitch of 26 1/3 TPI for the ball puller etc¡.) Regards, David toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ?Reply Like More ?davesmith1800 Jan 29? ? I did watch the Screw Box for Wooden Threads on the Wood Wright show when first came on.? It was interesting to see how did work before the 1900's. You could see how the threading die was developed.?? Dave? ?Reply Like More mike allen Jan 29? ? David , seeing that yer in the UK could the hand screw be Whitworth ? I don't remember anything about thread differences from Whitworth to Standard . animal ? ? 1/28/24 11:30 PM, DAVID WILLIAMS via groups.io wrote: toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ?Reply Like More Miket_NYC Jan 29? ? Not trying to put down the craft of woodworking, but have you thought of just converting this screw to metal? McMaster-Carr, a big mail-order hardware store in the US, sells 5/6-6 Acme-threaded rod with matching nuts for affordable prices. (You don't say what you mean by "longest reach," but here's a photo of their catalogue page showing prices for 3-foot and 6-foot lengths).? https://photos.app.goo.gl/evVgm6LftJAGJiwm9 I used one of of the nuts they sell for these leadscrews for a project myself a few years ago. I was restoring a South Bend metal shaper in derelict condition. It had an Acme leadscrew for the side-to-side travel of the shaper table that was in fine condition, but the matching nut was long gone and the manufacturer out of business (and making an internal Acme-threaded nut, with the outside of the nut properly shaped to get the bore into the right location for a leadscrew I couldn¡¯t measure directly seemed impossible, since I not only didn't have a nut to copy but had never even seen one before).?? So I made a carrier to fit the shaper table that was the shape of the outside of the original nut and was a light press fit on one of McMaster-Carr's Acme-threaded nuts. Then I coated the nut with epoxy and assembled the shaper table, allowing the leadscrew itself to pull the nut into the proper location while the epoxy set. Here's a photo of my cobbled-together nut. It's ugly but strong (and invisible after the shaper was together), and the shaper is working fine today.? ?https://photos.app.goo.gl/4j4zVa9qwiWAAmpA9 Your problem for a nut would be simpler, because you would just have to drill out the clamp to accept a steel shaft pushed in from one side. That shaft should be drilled and tapped with a 5/6-5 thread to match the threaded rod. (Or, if you don't fancy buying a gigantic tap you'll use once in your life, you could epoxy a matching nut into the steel shaft the way I did on my shaper). BTW, I doubt McMaster-Carr ships to the UK, but I expect a large industrial supplier there could offer similar products. This repair isn't woodworking, but it should work fine (and if the other screw ever breaks you could do the same thing for that).? Mike Taglieri? toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ?Reply Like More DAVID WILLIAMS 12:34am? ? Dear Mike, , I often always scan them and I am amazed at the detailed knowledge base available in this group (from anywhere in the world).?? I agree.? Most my threading is using A36 and 12L14 , 1144 and fresh aluminum castings.? Different set of problems with A36 and fresh aluminum castings.? Wood is something I have only dup? I also made wooden patterns.?? Most information come from reading? The one i read was use corse acme thread.? I would think buttress could better at time but never read that it aways acme? Dave? |
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Re: Woodworking with a metal lathe
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý? David and the rest of the group. ? I have not read very well the rules for the 7x12 group. Did it say what stuff we can put between head/tail stocks? Working with wood is funny. If you make more wood stuff than metal, shop a wood late. The dust can sometime be heavy. ? When I moved to another country as a pensioner, I had to take a decision: shall I work with wood or metal? I chose metal because of the dust. However, the wood working pleasure is still there. ? You can made very nice products that no one can find in the shop. Attached a picture of a gift I made for a new married couple that had every thing. A screw, 2 nuts and a not-square block with different colors and a box. ? The block symbolized the marriage, both nuts have to work tight the keep the marriage stable and the screw is the love. The box is a symbol for protection of the marriage so no one can interfere it, etc etc etc. I made a speech around it, and many assent their head. ? /Johannes ? ? ? ? ? ? ? May I therefore suggest, that we close down this topic, as I don¡¯t want the group to drift(?) too far from metalworking. Although I am not deeply interested In some of subjects, I often always scan them and I am amazed at the detailed knowledge base available in this group (from anywhere in the world). ? ? Regards to All, ? David? ? ? |
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Re: Direct Reading cross feed dial.
If use gear for engagement then form of thread dial.
I lot of lathes will use on haft nut for automatic engagement.? Costly to buy.? On turret lathes they use a thread leader and sometimes a gear box 1 to 1 , 1 to 2 , 1 to 3 and 1 to 4. But takes a lot of leads znd very fast to single point thread.?? Dave? |
davesmith1800
OldToolmaker
Johannes
This appears to be free to watch.
On Jan 29, 2024, at 12:30 AM, DAVID WILLIAMS via groups.io <d.i.williams@...> wrote:Dear All,
My original one, (complete) is probably 150 years old, possibly more.
The broken one is probably the same vintage, albeit smaller. This is the one I would like to restore at some point. I have got quite a few clamps for woodworking but the working one has the longest reach.
The original thread(s) measures ~ ?5/8¡± x ~ 6. Look at the detailed image.(You can see even the 6 TPI is not perfect.) JFI - Hence my scribble says ¡°Seems to be ~ 5/8 x 6 TPI. (I¡¯m sure you all understand but just in case the symbol for approximately is ~.)
I don¡¯t think anyone makes a 5/8 x 6 wood tap/die any more. Hence my request for assistance and using my 7 x 12 mini lathe. (Dare I mention the words after the recent discussion ?. ?) ?I was wondering if I could increase the thread to the more usual 3/4¡± x 6?
I think(?) the thread is made of beech.
I hope this is useful.
Thank you to all those who have offered help and assistance.?
PS As we all say, ¡°You never stop learning - Every day is a day at school!
Regards,
David (UK)On 28 Jan 2024, at 20:03, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
?like these ?
https://ponyjorgensen.com/product/classic-jorgensen-adjustable-handscrew/
thanks
animal
On 1/28/24 12:01 PM, David Wiseman wrote:They are of the style of an engineers hand clamp but really HUGE in comparison and of course made of wood.
Best regards
DavidOn 28 Jan 2024, at 19:01, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
?Are these clamps the " hand screw " clamps ? They have left & right hand
threads . I've never seen a set with wooden screws .
???animalOn 1/15/24 11:39 PM, DAVID WILLIAMS via groups.io wrote:
Dear All,
I realise this is both part Mini lathe and part wood lathe. But to me the metal lathe part is more important. Hence my question to you all.
I have a couple of these old wooden clamps - probably antique. They are just like the metalwork ones we use, but much much larger. One has a severely damaged (external) threads.
I would like to try(?) and cut the replacement long wooden thread on my 7 x 12. So, I bought a second hand thread chaser on eBay. It¡¯s 6 TPI and according to the chart on the Little Machine Shop site - the gear set up is no problem on my imperial lathe.
[JFI it¡¯s Real Bull model purchased from Chester Machines (in the UK) some 20+ years ago. If that¡¯s at all relevant?]
The thread chaser cuts multiple threads at the same time and the tool (normally hand held I understand) needs to be held at ~ 90 degrees to the thread, unlike the usual angle for cutting one side of a metal thread. OR, if you are doing it by hand, do you angle the thread chaser so it cuts a series of slightly deeper threads. Thus the tool needs to be held in the tool post at a similar angle?
Assuming I can sharpen it correctly and clamp it to the tool post, can anyone offer any suggestions or guidance? Do you cut it in multiple passes, in a similar way to a metal thread?
I assume I¡¯m going to have to make and use some sort of a travelling steady. My idea is to clamp it in the chuck and use a small freely rotating chuck at the tailstock end.
I believe I can get a much better quality and accurate thread using the gears than trying to use it hand held - on a very long tool holder, the same as the ones on a wood lathe. I have to check but I think the wood for the screws is normally Beech, if that¡¯s relevant?
Thank you in anticipation.
David of Abingdon(UK)
<image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg>
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
GadgetBuilder