I read and have try 29.5° and straight both came out same.?
The 30° in the old books was use for feed so it feed 0.001 on dial it took off 0.001 on the diameter.?
They use for tool post? grinding and set compound from 5° to 11° for finer feed.?
Dave?
|
I believe the 29 (or 29.5, should NOT be 30) topic has been discussed before.? You CAN go straight in, but there are cases where that can cause tearing or excess stress to the tool bit tip. This is less likely to be seen in the size work typically done on mini lathes, especially if using aluminum or brass, and the low speeds and light cuts typically taken.
The root issue is chip production control.? When going straight in, the left and right edges both produce a chip.? Both chips develop into the same air space above the tool tip and collide there.? This causes stress that can cause metal tearing, lower surface finish quality, and even a broken tool bit tip.? Maybe not as prevalent in small parts work at low rates and such.? But it is definitely and issue with larger parts with heavier cuts.? There ARE reasons why this threading method is taught.
The collision problem is solved by cutting on only one edge - mostly.? It also cuts a little bit on the other edge (the reason to be a little under 30 degrees) so that other edge 1) also has a good surface finish from the light cut and 2) maintains good contact on that other edge for heat transfer.
You will sometimes hear people say that it results in a "stairstep" on one side.? This technique will NOT do that.? What is happening is that they are depending on an inaccurate degree marking on the compound and actually have the angle set to something greater than 30 degrees and/or the tool bit is not ground to the correct angle and/or the tool bit is not mounted straight.? All of these errors will cause problems with this threading technique.? You can get away with a lot of sloppiness with all of those problems with straight in threading.
Anyway, if you go straight in, and for what you are doing it works, then there is nothing wrong with that.? But that won't work well with everything.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
?
On Thursday, January 25, 2024 at 04:59:20 AM PST, Craig Hopewell via groups.io <cch80124@...> wrote:
Good teaching image.
I fiddled with the 30 degree threading technique once.? ?I generally do well straight in.? ? May want to play with it more when time permits (not soon).
--
Lone Tree, Colorado? ?USA
|
Good teaching image.
I fiddled with the 30 degree threading technique once.? ?I generally do well straight in.? ? May want to play with it more when time permits (not soon).
--
Lone Tree, Colorado? ?USA
|
Roy,
You have a good point with 123 blocks being completely hardened However, my 123 blocks were only case hardened but they were also really cheap I think only $17 for a pair of them, not very good quality for sure and they weren’t that difficult to machine.? The more expensive 123 blocks I know are fully hardened but you also pay the price for decent quality 123 blocks.? Then again when buying imported tools it’s a hit n miss when it comes to quality. Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
Most, if not all of them are thru-hardened, not case hardened - it's quicker & easier to do that before finish grinding. The easy way to deal with minor problems in the holes is with a mounted point in a rotary tool. Taps don't do well in hardened steel; carbide taps are meant for use in relatively soft, abrasive material.
Roy
|
Here calculator for threading dials.?
Keep to low numbers on gear as easier to use.
Dave?
|
Re: White lead for centers and chucks
I don't remember the brand name, but, there was a plastic lamp that was available in white & red versions, with some plastic attaching hardware. The weird thing was that they required a special 4.5 volt battery that didn't match normal commercial battery sizes.
Roy
|
Most, if not all of them are thru-hardened, not case hardened - it's quicker & easier to do that before finish grinding. The easy way to deal with minor problems in the holes is with a mounted point in a rotary tool. Taps don't do well in hardened steel; carbide taps are meant for use in relatively soft, abrasive material.
Roy
|
I believe the blocks are only case hardened.? I had to run a tap through the pre-tapped holes to remove burrs.? It wasn’t an easy process and it’s possible to damage the tap in the process.? I would recommend buying 123 blocks from a reputable company? Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
No, the blocks are to hard for tapping.
george
On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 02:15:31 PM PST, Miket_NYC < mctaglieri@...> wrote:
"The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up."
CAN you run a tap through the holes? I always assumed they would destroy my tap, since the blocks are hardened. (Or are they only case hardened?)
Mike Taglieri? If you purchased imported 123 blocks it’s a hit n miss.? If you’re looking for perfect 123 blocks you’ll need to spend some extra money and get them from a reputable manufacturer like Starrett or similar.? The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up. Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
How about talking 123 blocks. I'm a bit at a loss about them. Or the basic manufacturing of them and what's expected. I bought one set on amazon and it was awful.? Couldnt even screw in a bolt. Retuned it. Then ordered a kit from lms. One block was perfect for me, I could insert the supplied bolts into every hole. Bolts threaded in nicely in the threaded holes. But the other block I could not insert the bolt into any of the unthreaded holes. I contacted lms and got the we will call you back message. Left a message but never recieved a call back. So much for customer service. Anyway I thought I could use a grinding stone to open them up. But after two broken stones and one burnt out fuse on my dremel I'm at a loss. Anything on these issues would be appreciated.
george
|
No, the blocks are to hard for tapping.
george
On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 02:15:31 PM PST, Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
"The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up."
CAN you run a tap through the holes? I always assumed they would destroy my tap, since the blocks are hardened. (Or are they only case hardened?)
Mike Taglieri?
If you purchased imported 123 blocks it’s a hit n miss.? If you’re looking for perfect 123 blocks you’ll need to spend some extra money and get them from a reputable manufacturer like Starrett or similar.? The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up. Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
How about talking 123 blocks. I'm a bit at a loss about them. Or the basic manufacturing of them and what's expected. I bought one set on amazon and it was awful.? Couldnt even screw in a bolt. Retuned it. Then ordered a kit from lms. One block was perfect for me, I could insert the supplied bolts into every hole. Bolts threaded in nicely in the threaded holes. But the other block I could not insert the bolt into any of the unthreaded holes. I contacted lms and got the we will call you back message. Left a message but never recieved a call back. So much for customer service. Anyway I thought I could use a grinding stone to open them up. But after two broken stones and one burnt out fuse on my dremel I'm at a loss. Anything on these issues would be appreciated.
george
|
"The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up."
CAN you run a tap through the holes? I always assumed they would destroy my tap, since the blocks are hardened. (Or are they only case hardened?)
Mike Taglieri?
If you purchased imported 123 blocks it’s a hit n miss.? If you’re looking for perfect 123 blocks you’ll need to spend some extra money and get them from a reputable manufacturer like Starrett or similar.? The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up. Have A Great Day?? Tracy Ranson
How about talking 123 blocks. I'm a bit at a loss about them. Or the basic manufacturing of them and what's expected. I bought one set on amazon and it was awful.? Couldnt even screw in a bolt. Retuned it. Then ordered a kit from lms. One block was perfect for me, I could insert the supplied bolts into every hole. Bolts threaded in nicely in the threaded holes. But the other block I could not insert the bolt into any of the unthreaded holes. I contacted lms and got the we will call you back message. Left a message but never recieved a call back. So much for customer service. Anyway I thought I could use a grinding stone to open them up. But after two broken stones and one burnt out fuse on my dremel I'm at a loss. Anything on these issues would be appreciated.
george
|
Thanks for that reference. Will read it later. Been looking for something like that. Anyway, just to clear some things up, the lms blocks have the unthreaded holes are all large enough to fit the bolts in. The threads are good also. But on the one block, when they tapped the holes for the required threaded holes, the tapping process left ears or pieces of metal sticking into the unthreaded hole. These pieces are small. I do understand that they cannot be drilled nor tapped. So my only option is to grind them off. This may turn out to be impossible.? I'm actually amazed at how many are made so poorly considering its rather a simple process. I have watched and read about the more expensive ones and they all are made so that the bolts can fit into the untapped holes. But for sure, I'm not spending that kind of money for my little shop. So tell I can deal with that issue I will be using that kit that was mentioned. So I will inform you all if I do get the block up to snuff. Silence means i have had no luck. Thanks all for the help,
george
On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 02:07:43 AM PST, Gerald Feldman <gfeldman2904@...> wrote:
George, ? You might want to have a quick look at ? to understand why they are made the way they are (and each manufacturer is different). ? Good Luck, ? Jerry F. ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of gcvisalia@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 11:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] 123 blocks ? Yea, I bought that kit at the time I ordered the original blocks from amazon. I basically knew that the unthreaded holes dont always allow the threaded boots to go through but still thought I would be able to do something or get lucky. Almost made it with the lms set but only got one good block. Not making them that way just makes no sense. Well, to me.? On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 03:50:13 PM PST, BuffaloJohn <johndurbetaki@...> wrote: I've bee happy using this product: which is designed to be used on the import blocks which I have never found to have a usable thread or clearance hole. ? If you purchased imported 123 blocks it’s a hit n miss.? If you’re looking for perfect 123 blocks you’ll need to spend some extra money and get them from a reputable manufacturer like Starrett or similar.? The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up.
? How about talking 123 blocks. I'm a bit at a loss about them. Or the basic manufacturing of them and what's expected. I bought one set on amazon and it was awful.? Couldnt even screw in a bolt. Retuned it. Then ordered a kit from lms. One block was perfect for me, I could insert the supplied bolts into every hole. Bolts threaded in nicely in the threaded holes. But the other block I could not insert the bolt into any of the unthreaded holes. I contacted lms and got the we will call you back message. Left a message but never recieved a call back. So much for customer service. Anyway I thought I could use a grinding stone to open them up. But after two broken stones and one burnt out fuse on my dremel I'm at a loss. Anything on these issues would be appreciated.
--
Buffalo John
|
Re: White lead for centers and chucks
I remember that strap on light very well as a few of us in a cycling group related to Barnard's Cyclery in Oak Park, IL were given some prototypes to test and comment on.? This would have been circa 1964.??It was white plastic, and you can imagine a T shaped affair made with white tubing, although it was a single casting.? The battery(s) was in the vertical part.? I can't remember if it was one, or two, C, or D, cells.? We thought it was fantastic because of the up and down motion pedaling gave it.? I don't think we had seen anything like that before.? A real attention getter at the time.? The front facing light didn't act well as a headlamp, as stated, but most things didn't because nothing was very bright.? The white front light did, however, with its up and down motion, make you quite noticeable to people in front of you.
It would be incredulous to believe looking at me now, but I raced bicycles back then.? And yes, one of those tilting rub against the tires generator would not have been kind to my Clement 8 oz. sew up tires (Clement model 50 if I recall).? But earlier as a kid with a balloon-tired bike, my reaction to that generator was "Wow, how cool is that."? Another light we tried was just a chrome plated thin metal box with rounded corners and edges that held two D cells side by side and had a big 3 inch reflector and bulb on attached to it..? Better than most for a headlight.? But we found that if we took a certain 3-inch red plastic lens out of a bicycle reflector sold at the time and installed it backwards which collimated the light much better, we had a great taillight.? And no, no lights used when racing, but we did a lot of training, and also recreational riding, day and night.
Charles E "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 11:20:35 AM PST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
Back when I was riding we would have never used one of those rub
on the tire generator lites on our sew-ups . SO someone came out
with lite that strapped on yer lower leg with a clear lens in
front & a red lens in the back . The red lite in back was a
great idea cause cars coming up behind ya knew it was a guy/gal on
a bike . The lite facing front was garbage , by the time ya saw a
sewer grate ya were pullin yer buck out of the grate with a
trashed rim . Didn't ride alot at nite , but when we did we tried
to stick to side streets we knew or tried to keep up with the cars
. The keeping up part wasn't so easy sometimes .
animal
On 1/24/24 12:00 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
Price
& performance as usual.
?
The
old dynamos were pretty crap, and incandescent lamps didn’t
help.? Better than nothing though, and battery powered was
worse.? Today with neodymium magnets & LEDs they’re so
much better, but you’re up against $5 lights with USB
rechargeable batteries that are even better.
?
Everything
has its niche, as before the rideshare bikes use the hub
dynamo & LED combo because it works there.
?
Tony
?
?
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of mike
allen
Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2024 3:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] White lead for
centers and chucks
?
??? ??? Thats kinds funny how they had that technology for
that & then dropped it for like 50? maybe more years &
then brought it back . Like steering locks they had them in
the 40's & dropped them cause they were such a big
inconvenience to people . Yer rent a cop was probably of teh
group that wonders how a thermos knows how to keep something
warm or cold .
animal
On 1/23/24 5:45 PM, Roy via groups.io
wrote:
I had a Raleigh bike that had a dyno hub
in the front wheel. That was in the late '50s. IIRC, it
wasn't a great light source. From memory, it was thinner
& larger diameter than the pix in the link.
For comic relief, I once had a base rent-a-cop at Newport,
RI bewildered that my generator lights (different bike) went
out when I stopped & came back on when I was moving;-)
Roy
|
Re: White lead for centers and chucks
Yup, I had one of those ankle strapped lights. And they were just good for the red light facing backwards. The front light was useless. I finally just basically taped a flashlight to the front bar. Good enough for my needs.?
george
On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 11:20:35 AM PST, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
Back when I was riding we would have never used one of those rub
on the tire generator lites on our sew-ups . SO someone came out
with lite that strapped on yer lower leg with a clear lens in
front & a red lens in the back . The red lite in back was a
great idea cause cars coming up behind ya knew it was a guy/gal on
a bike . The lite facing front was garbage , by the time ya saw a
sewer grate ya were pullin yer buck out of the grate with a
trashed rim . Didn't ride alot at nite , but when we did we tried
to stick to side streets we knew or tried to keep up with the cars
. The keeping up part wasn't so easy sometimes .
animal
On 1/24/24 12:00 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
Price
& performance as usual.
?
The
old dynamos were pretty crap, and incandescent lamps didn’t
help.? Better than nothing though, and battery powered was
worse.? Today with neodymium magnets & LEDs they’re so
much better, but you’re up against $5 lights with USB
rechargeable batteries that are even better.
?
Everything
has its niche, as before the rideshare bikes use the hub
dynamo & LED combo because it works there.
?
Tony
?
?
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of mike
allen
Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2024 3:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] White lead for
centers and chucks
?
??? ??? Thats kinds funny how they had that technology for
that & then dropped it for like 50? maybe more years &
then brought it back . Like steering locks they had them in
the 40's & dropped them cause they were such a big
inconvenience to people . Yer rent a cop was probably of teh
group that wonders how a thermos knows how to keep something
warm or cold .
animal
On 1/23/24 5:45 PM, Roy via groups.io
wrote:
I had a Raleigh bike that had a dyno hub
in the front wheel. That was in the late '50s. IIRC, it
wasn't a great light source. From memory, it was thinner
& larger diameter than the pix in the link.
For comic relief, I once had a base rent-a-cop at Newport,
RI bewildered that my generator lights (different bike) went
out when I stopped & came back on when I was moving;-)
Roy
|
Re: White lead for centers and chucks
Back when I was riding we would have never used one of those rub
on the tire generator lites on our sew-ups . SO someone came out
with lite that strapped on yer lower leg with a clear lens in
front & a red lens in the back . The red lite in back was a
great idea cause cars coming up behind ya knew it was a guy/gal on
a bike . The lite facing front was garbage , by the time ya saw a
sewer grate ya were pullin yer buck out of the grate with a
trashed rim . Didn't ride alot at nite , but when we did we tried
to stick to side streets we knew or tried to keep up with the cars
. The keeping up part wasn't so easy sometimes .
animal
On 1/24/24 12:00 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Price
& performance as usual.
?
The
old dynamos were pretty crap, and incandescent lamps didn’t
help.? Better than nothing though, and battery powered was
worse.? Today with neodymium magnets & LEDs they’re so
much better, but you’re up against $5 lights with USB
rechargeable batteries that are even better.
?
Everything
has its niche, as before the rideshare bikes use the hub
dynamo & LED combo because it works there.
?
Tony
?
?
?
??? ??? Thats kinds funny how they had that technology for
that & then dropped it for like 50? maybe more years &
then brought it back . Like steering locks they had them in
the 40's & dropped them cause they were such a big
inconvenience to people . Yer rent a cop was probably of teh
group that wonders how a thermos knows how to keep something
warm or cold .
animal
On 1/23/24 5:45 PM, Roy via groups.io
wrote:
I had a Raleigh bike that had a dyno hub
in the front wheel. That was in the late '50s. IIRC, it
wasn't a great light source. From memory, it was thinner
& larger diameter than the pix in the link.
For comic relief, I once had a base rent-a-cop at Newport,
RI bewildered that my generator lights (different bike) went
out when I stopped & came back on when I was moving;-)
Roy
|
Here a drawing on blind threading I talked about in past thread.? This good drawing. I have not used the 30° angle since 1970's.?? Dave? 
|
Does anyone have a threading dial chart for 2.0 mm lead screw.??
I have gearing charts and for both metric and inch all the threads.?
But lathe I purchased did not come with threading dial for metric threads and plan to build one.?
Dave?
|
Re: White lead for centers and chucks
It is interesting reading on bikes all the ways you have electric.??
When look I look at it put a motor on bike 25 years ago? ? they call a moped ? and you need a license plate .
Dave?
|
George, ? You might want to have a quick look at ? to understand why they are made the way they are (and each manufacturer is different). ? Good Luck, ? Jerry F. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of gcvisalia@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 11:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] 123 blocks? Yea, I bought that kit at the time I ordered the original blocks from amazon. I basically knew that the unthreaded holes dont always allow the threaded boots to go through but still thought I would be able to do something or get lucky. Almost made it with the lms set but only got one good block. Not making them that way just makes no sense. Well, to me.? On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 03:50:13 PM PST, BuffaloJohn <johndurbetaki@...> wrote: I've bee happy using this product: which is designed to be used on the import blocks which I have never found to have a usable thread or clearance hole. ? If you purchased imported 123 blocks it’s a hit n miss.? If you’re looking for perfect 123 blocks you’ll need to spend some extra money and get them from a reputable manufacturer like Starrett or similar.? The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up.
? How about talking 123 blocks. I'm a bit at a loss about them. Or the basic manufacturing of them and what's expected. I bought one set on amazon and it was awful.? Couldnt even screw in a bolt. Retuned it. Then ordered a kit from lms. One block was perfect for me, I could insert the supplied bolts into every hole. Bolts threaded in nicely in the threaded holes. But the other block I could not insert the bolt into any of the unthreaded holes. I contacted lms and got the we will call you back message. Left a message but never recieved a call back. So much for customer service. Anyway I thought I could use a grinding stone to open them up. But after two broken stones and one burnt out fuse on my dremel I'm at a loss. Anything on these issues would be appreciated.
--
Buffalo John
|
This dude: thinks they cloned a poor design or got the measurements wrong (imperial/metric screw-up), but they drill all the holes correctly sized for threading but they don’t go back and bore out the clearance holes. ? And as said, good luck doing that yourself. ? They’ve been making those wrong for years & years.? Crap keeps getting made because we buy it because it’s cheap.? Sure it’s easy to fix, but why bother? ? I’ve had a pair of those, and I made something like the kludge kit John linked to: .? That’s a cross dowel barrel nut used in furniture, if you’ve got an Ikea bed you’ve seen them. ? I’m amused at the patent.? No, you can’t patent an existing idea by simply using it somewhere else.? Stop being silly. ? Tony ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of gcvisalia@...
Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2024 6:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] 123 blocks? Yea, I bought that kit at the time I ordered the original blocks from amazon. I basically knew that the unthreaded holes dont always allow the threaded boots to go through but still thought I would be able to do something or get lucky. Almost made it with the lms set but only got one good block. Not making them that way just makes no sense. Well, to me.? On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 03:50:13 PM PST, BuffaloJohn <johndurbetaki@...> wrote: I've bee happy using this product: which is designed to be used on the import blocks which I have never found to have a usable thread or clearance hole. ? If you purchased imported 123 blocks it’s a hit n miss.? If you’re looking for perfect 123 blocks you’ll need to spend some extra money and get them from a reputable manufacturer like Starrett or similar.? The other option is to run a tap through the thread holes to clean them up.
? How about talking 123 blocks. I'm a bit at a loss about them. Or the basic manufacturing of them and what's expected. I bought one set on amazon and it was awful.? Couldnt even screw in a bolt. Retuned it. Then ordered a kit from lms. One block was perfect for me, I could insert the supplied bolts into every hole. Bolts threaded in nicely in the threaded holes. But the other block I could not insert the bolt into any of the unthreaded holes. I contacted lms and got the we will call you back message. Left a message but never recieved a call back. So much for customer service. Anyway I thought I could use a grinding stone to open them up. But after two broken stones and one burnt out fuse on my dremel I'm at a loss. Anything on these issues would be appreciated.
--
Buffalo John
|
Re: White lead for centers and chucks
Price & performance as usual. ? The old dynamos were pretty crap, and incandescent lamps didn’t help.? Better than nothing though, and battery powered was worse.? Today with neodymium magnets & LEDs they’re so much better, but you’re up against $5 lights with USB rechargeable batteries that are even better. ? Everything has its niche, as before the rideshare bikes use the hub dynamo & LED combo because it works there. ? Tony ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mike allen
Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2024 3:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] White lead for centers and chucks? ??? ??? Thats kinds funny how they had that technology for that & then dropped it for like 50? maybe more years & then brought it back . Like steering locks they had them in the 40's & dropped them cause they were such a big inconvenience to people . Yer rent a cop was probably of teh group that wonders how a thermos knows how to keep something warm or cold . animal On 1/23/24 5:45 PM, Roy via groups.io wrote: I had a Raleigh bike that had a dyno hub in the front wheel. That was in the late '50s. IIRC, it wasn't a great light source. From memory, it was thinner & larger diameter than the pix in the link.
For comic relief, I once had a base rent-a-cop at Newport, RI bewildered that my generator lights (different bike) went out when I stopped & came back on when I was moving;-)
Roy
|
davesmith1800
T