Re: Grizzly is doing better - I hope!!!
Here is is simple tuning tool for tail quill.
Under $16.00.
Dave?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/MT2-Morse-Taper-Reamer-H8-Accuracy-Alloy-Tool-Steel-6-Flute-Straight-Shank-Finish-Hand-Reamer-Cutter-Milling-Tool/967532876?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=571&adid=22222222223000000000_3614603750_pla&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=m&wl3=10352200394&wl4=pla-1103028060075&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&wl10=Walmart&wl11=Online&wl12=967532876_10000000599&wl14=%232%20morse%20tapper%20reamer&veh=sem&msclkid=89dd7357a034124b013f16c0ca26c856&gclid=89dd7357a034124b013f16c0ca26c856&gclsrc=3p.ds
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Re: Grizzly is doing better - I hope!!!
I have one of the old Homier/Speedway models back from somewhere around 2000-2002.? I've not found any terrible flaws with it - even back then, there was enough info to sorta know what to expect and I've always thought it was well worth what I paid - when you really need a lathe, there aren't many good alternatives.? Maker spaces or online prototyping weren't a thing back then and machine shops didn't want to deal with the small bits I was machining.
Recently I've been making a few mods and bought some replacement parts from Grizzly.? I've found the Grizzly parts to be as good as and usually better than the original parts.? I've bought a few things from LMS and have been happy with them too, but Grizzly tends to be a lot cheaper and the quality is there in my experience.? Of course, if you order anything painted, it's going to come green, but their green paint is significantly better than the blue paint-approximating substance that colored my old lathe.
I'd hope Grizzly's machines are as good as their parts, but I can't say.? I think if I were going to buy today, I'd either buy the cheapest around, which is probably Harbor Freight, or I'd buy a Grizzly on the other extreme and pester them under warranty until I was satisfied.
On Thursday, January 4th, 2024 at 6:09 PM, Evan <AEDLewis@...> wrote:
This is an interesting conversation. I thought the main advantage of buying through a US middle man/retailer rather than directly from China, is the potential for quality control and easier returns. ?From what I am reading, that idea is not working out. ?I certainly think the local retailers would be in a position to demand real quality control before shipping and I do not imagine that some basic testing would be very expensive. ?If it helps the manufacturer's sales and also helps the retailer's sales it is likely to be a net WIN. ?
I have heard that it is difficult to get Chinese companies to do quality control because it is a big cultural issue to blame someone for bad or sloppy work, and ?no-one wants to point a finger.
I belong to the local "Inventor Center" who are planning to buy a Grizzly lathe with milling attachment. So we are about to find out! I thought it better to get a separate small mill, but apparently the decision has been made and locked in.
Evan
Lathe: 1955 Boxford Model A with screw cutting gearbox, power feed with several accessories, hand tools and a pillar drill press.
Try my Free Online Gear train Software:
You enter a thread pitch or TPI and it shows you a range of gear trains and gearbox setting to use and even a scale drawing of the gear train.
It also includes calculations for taper turning by the tailstock offset method, and cutting speeds.
It includes the specifications for many thread types eg metric, UNC, BSW, and BA.
Displays drill sizes for tapping threads at any percent thread depth (with full explanations).
My YouTube Channel and Playlist about using an engineers lathe: ?
Project to build a Greek Hero steam engine and measure its power output:?
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Re: Grizzly is doing better - I hope!!!
mike allen
Jan 2? ?
? ? ? ? My store in Reno did honor the cheaper online price if ya brought the online add . Can't say if they still do , the problem with most HF's is they change managers like most people change their underwear .
animal
That is one way get new underwear on manager.? It is problem today with upper management They think the store management can drive sale and profit.?? I rarely goto HF today they change from 20 years ago.? Dave?
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
?
I have disassembled and partially disassembled my mm 7x16 lathe at least 3 times. First two times was to make it operable. The first time was to basically clean it up. Why ? Because it would not move well at all and would stick and well, not useable.? Next time was to refine things, both cleaning, filing, better adjusting as i under stood more
There thing I do before run any lathe for no surprise.?? It like center when do center hole you quickly see it off. Simple fix with morse ream 5 minutes later it is right.? Jib adjustment will move as soon as move the lathe cross town? with a lot other nuts and bolts.? Dave?
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Re: Grizzly is doing better - I hope!!!
This is an interesting conversation. I thought the main advantage of buying through a US middle man/retailer rather than directly from China, is the potential for quality control and easier returns. ?From what I am reading, that idea is not working out. ?I certainly think the local retailers would be in a position to demand real quality control before shipping and I do not imagine that some basic testing would be very expensive. ?If it helps the manufacturer's sales and also helps the retailer's sales it is likely to be a net WIN. ?
I have heard that it is difficult to get Chinese companies to do quality control because it is a big cultural issue to blame someone for bad or sloppy work, and ?no-one wants to point a finger.
I belong to the local "Inventor Center" who are planning to buy a Grizzly lathe with milling attachment. So we are about to find out! I thought it better to get a separate small mill, but apparently the decision has been made and locked in.
Evan
Lathe: 1955 Boxford Model A with screw cutting gearbox, power feed with several accessories, hand tools and a pillar drill press.
Try my Free Online Gear train Software:
You enter a thread pitch or TPI and it shows you a range of gear trains and gearbox setting to use and even a scale drawing of the gear train.
It also includes calculations for taper turning by the tailstock offset method, and cutting speeds.
It includes the specifications for many thread types eg metric, UNC, BSW, and BA.
Displays drill sizes for tapping threads at any percent thread depth (with full explanations).
My YouTube Channel and Playlist about using an engineers lathe: ?
Project to build a Greek Hero steam engine and measure its power output:?
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
I have disassembled and partially disassembled my mm 7x16 lathe at least 3 times. First two times was to make it operable. The first time was to basically clean it up. Why ? Because it would not move well at all and would stick and well, not useable.? Next time was to refine things, both cleaning, filing, better adjusting as i under stood more. Partial disassembly was to further get things refined. I did much of this before I got info off of youtube or here on this site. And it continues but getting better as I go. But yea, one really gets to know the machine and the adjustments and such. Now if something is not right I can pretty well figure out what is going wonky.
But the biggest learning curve came from basically two issues occuring at near the same time. One was cutting with chattering and cutting off which was shall I say, interesting. Now, i know about making sure the cutters are adjusted properly to the center of whatever is being worked on. I did this but now realize that even though i adjusted it before on my qctp, it does not remain centered if it comes off and then reinserted. Also found that it's critical when parting off. Now i have no issues when i recheck centering and adjust it before doing any cutting.? Specially on the cutting off blade. Has certainly changed my results big time. Dont assume, check !
george
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 09:37:06 AM PST, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
You find most accuracy problems is with operator.? I helps if lathe is right but good operator can over come this problem.?
It like DRO on cross slide it is only aid to new person all do is look at marks not number.? The flex in just everything comes in play and you have adjust.?
Dave?
Paul Fox
8:16am? ?
People here and on other forums often talk about having had to clean,
fix, shim, adjust, tweak a new lathe in order to make it accurate and
useable. And that being willing to do so lets you start with a less
expensive mill, from HF or Vevor, say, rather than one from LMS or
Grizzly
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Here my follower rest install on my mini lathe.? Had to drill and taps holes as my lathe did have any. Dave? 
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
I don't recall a single source for all the tune-ups, but I can list what I'd consider to be the essential adjustments, refinements, and upgrades to push your typical 7x10 into the realm of a machine that works like a lathe is supposed to work:
- Thoroughly clean preservative from all areas of the lathe.
- Clean-up (file, scrape) the underside of the ways to a constant thickness so that the carriage moves smoothly with a single bearing plate setting.
- Replace the bearing plates holding the carriage to the ways with brass or bronze plates shimmed to a consistent fit.? (Adjustable mechanisms are not required - it won't wear enough in a lifetime to make the effort worth it.)
- Replace all gib adjustment setscrews and locking nuts with self-locking setscrews. (LMS sells a kit)
- Check all gib strips for flatness and straightness; repair and replace as required.
- If not already equipped, install quick-locking mechanism to the tailstock.
- Check alignment of headstock to bed and tailstock to headstock; adjust as necessary.
There are several other quick things that can be done to improve the speed of operations but they are not essential. Someone mentioned not fixing something until it broken.? Most 7X10s out of the crate have carriages that stick at some points and are sloppy at others on the bed; have bearing plates and gibs that are almost impossible to adjust because of warpage, burrs, and a horrible screw-fixing arrangement, and a tailstock that is exceedingly cumbersome to move and keep aligned.? Those things need to be addressed before you can say your lathe really works.? If you try to live with them you'll be increasingly frustrated and hesitant and annoyed using the lathe, until you get to the point where you say it's not worth the aggravation and you sell it.? The items listed above turned my machine from a gizmo that had to be fought every time (and usually without success) into an actual screw-cutting metal lathe. Kurt Laughlin
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
charles wrote:
> So, I arbitrarily picked an earlier date, April 16, 2021, and it is MUCH
> better. If you look at "Adjustments" here, you will find all sorts of
> things with "Adjusting the gibs" topping the list. And the site has many
> links to others.
>
This is exactly the sort of resource I was hoping for. Nice detail, and
good pictures showing what to do and why. Thanks!
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 42.5 degrees)
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
Hi Paul,
My advice: proceed with caution.
If you're new to using a lathe/mill you may not have the skills necessary to get the best out of your equipment, let alone understand why, even more so, the skill to make accurate corrections/adjustments/modifications.?
Let my story be a cautionary tale...I bought a Real Bull lathe many years ago. Because of all the chatter about these things needing work right out of the box, I assumed mine would too. After only a few hours of using it, I decided I had detected a problem and set about trying to "fix" it. I read up on the procedure (YouTube wasn't really a thing then), got all the advice I could find, then set about what I hoped would be an improvement. By the time I had finished, the lathe truly did have a serious problem, and I had the hindsight to realize my skills were inadequate to correct it.
I ended up selling the lathe off (with full disclosure to the buyer, of course) and bought a new Micro-Mark 7x16. After a few test cuts I realized the it was displaying the very same characteristics as the Real Bull. The problem was never in the lathe itself, it was in the "nut that holds the handles" (said "nut" being me).
I decided to just use the lathe as it was out of the box, and as Chris Albertson suggested, only try to make a change if it was really needed for what I was trying to do.
The proof of this advice is in the fact that after many, many years, and making no modification to the lathe at all, I am turning out work with far more accuracy and repeatability than I ever have before, despite the lathe being far more "limber" than it was when I first got it.?
Buy from a known supplier, like LMS or Micro-Mark or Grizzly, then use it, a lot, before you decide if you really have a problem.
Just my two cents...
Kurt Severson
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
Thanks for the info about Frank Hoose selling the mini-lathe site.? That explains it.? I don't know why so much information is now gone unless I'm not using the site correctly.? Thanks to the "Internet Archive" (A.K.A 'Wayback Machine") we can see the site as it once was.
Charels E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 09:40:57 AM PST, ChazzC <chaz-creswell@...> wrote:
Frank Hoose sold mini-lathe.com earlier this year;
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
bruce wrote: > Well I cannot speak specifically to a mill, Home Shop Machinist has a Argh!! I can't believe I wrote "mill" twice in my post. I meant "lathe", every time. > great book ¡°The Complete Mini-Lathe Workshop¡± by Ted Hansen; a lot of the > chapters deal with making the lathe more accurate and robust. Pretty > amazing array of tooling and add-ons. > It's currently their featured book: Thanks! paul > > [1]Hansen-Book-NEW.png > [2]Shop The Home Shop Machinist, > A Metalworking Magazine > homeshopmachinist.net > > This also has some good info on setting it up and tuning it: > > [3]978-1-56523-695-0.jpg > [4]Mini-Lathe for Home Machinists > foxchapelpublishing.com > > (Fox Chapel is the American publisher of The Workshop Practice series > published in England; I don¡¯t have one to hand so I don¡¯t remember the > publisher. ) > > On Jan 4, 2024, at 9:16 AM, Paul Fox <pgf@...> wrote: > People here and on other forums often talk about having had to clean, > fix, shim, adjust, tweak a new lathe in order to make it accurate and > useable. And that being willing to do so lets you start with a less > expensive mill, from HF or Vevor, say, rather than one from LMS or > Grizzly. > > But I've yet to see an overall guide to what all of that work entails, > and how its done. > > Does anyone have a pointer to a video, or a blog, or similar, that goes > through all of what might be entailed? It's hard to convince myself I > want to go through the effort, without understanding it better. I'm > pretty sure I have the skills. But I might not have the patience or > the equipment or tools. > > And: is it always possible for the home hobby user to fully adjust a > cheaper mill? Are there some problems that just can't be fixed? > > paul > =---------------------- > paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 41.4 > degrees) > > -- > Bruce Johnson > > The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it > is to steal his vote and give him botulism. > > Attachments: > > ? [5]Hansen-Book-NEW.png > ? [6]978-1-56523-695-0.jpg > > > > References > > Visible links > 1. > 2. > 3. > 4. > 5. /g/7x12MiniLathe/attachment/118179/ > 6. /g/7x12MiniLathe/attachment/118179/1 > 7. /g/7x12MiniLathe/message/118179 > 8. mailto: [email protected]?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5B7x12MiniLathe%5D%20%22tuning%20up%22%20a%20mini%20lathe > 9. mailto:bruce.desertrat@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5B7x12MiniLathe%5D%20%22tuning%20up%22%20a%20mini%20lathe > 10. /mt/103525200/1007597 > 11. /g/7x12MiniLathe/post > 12. /g/7x12MiniLathe/editsub/1007597 > 13. mailto: [email protected] > 14. /g/7x12MiniLathe/leave/12906700/1007597/484577620/xyzzy=---------------------- paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 42.8 degrees)
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
Frank Hoose sold mini-lathe.com earlier this year;
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
You find most accuracy problems is with operator.? I helps if lathe is right but good operator can over come this problem.?
It like DRO on cross slide it is only aid to new person all do is look at marks not number.? The flex in just everything comes in play and you have adjust.?
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Paul Fox
8:16am? ?
People here and on other forums often talk about having had to clean,
fix, shim, adjust, tweak a new lathe in order to make it accurate and
useable. And that being willing to do so lets you start with a less
expensive mill, from HF or Vevor, say, rather than one from LMS or
Grizzly
|
Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
The "mini-lathe.com" site was, I think, the first "go to" site for many years.? I just checked the site and it looks completely different, and very sparse, compared to what I remember.
I checked the "Internet Archive" for this site and the last capture they have before it changed and lost almost all information was November 26, 2022.? Here it is.? There is a LOT here.? But when I selected "adjustments", it seemed sparse and not the original.
So, I arbitrarily picked an earlier date, April 16, 2021, and it is MUCH better.? If you look at "Adjustments" here, you will find all sorts of things with "Adjusting the gibs" topping the list.? And the site has many links to others.
"Gadget Builder" has a wealth of mainly various accessories you can make.
Little Machine Shop is another place you should get familiar with.? They have "Learning Center" and "Info Center" tabs but are more about using the machines than upgrading them.
There is a vast amount of info out there on this, and you can cast a wide net.? And enough YouTubes to make your eyes bleed.
But this brings us to a more basic question.? None of us can really tell you what YOU should or should not do.? Some people use the lathe right out of the box and don't do anything to it.? That can be due to the quality variability with some just being better by luck from how it came out of the factory.? The other big variable is what YOU plan to do with it.? People have different needs for accuracies and the MANY features that can be made for these.
It might be best to just start "making some chips" and then see if you think something needs improvement.? And then search for a solution to just that issue.? If you are new to this, learning how to grind lathe tools is a good first step and, for these small lathes, I recommend HSS tool bits as opposed to carbide or carbide inserts.? Many of the carbide tools in the form of a complete tool shank are total junk.? Inserts can be fine, but I just think most will get better results with properly ground HSS bits.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 08:40:00 AM PST, Thomas Key <takey89@...> wrote:
Great question Paul.? I sure hope you get some good answers because I can also use some help getting my mini dialed in.
Tom
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 8:16 AM Paul Fox < pgf@...> wrote: People here and on other forums often talk about having had to clean,
fix, shim, adjust, tweak a new lathe in order to make it accurate and
useable.? And that being willing to do so lets you start with a less
expensive mill, from HF or Vevor, say, rather than one from LMS or
Grizzly.
But I've yet to see an overall guide to what all of that work entails,
and how its done.
Does anyone have a pointer to a video, or a blog, or similar, that goes
through all of what might be entailed?? It's hard to convince myself I
want to go through the effort, without understanding it better.? I'm
pretty sure I have the skills.? But I might not have the patience or
the equipment or tools.
And:? is it always possible for the home hobby user to fully adjust a
cheaper mill?? Are there some problems that just can't be fixed?
paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 41.4 degrees)
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
My approach is very unpopular here. ?I wait until I notice a problem, then I fix it. ? Sometimes you might have some kind of issue like the head not being exactly where it should be on the bed but maybe you are making smaller parts and a 1 in 1,000 error does not show up on your 20mm long part but it might show up on a 220 mm long part.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 4, 2024, at 8:39?AM, Thomas Key <takey89@...> wrote:
Great question Paul.? I sure hope you get some good answers because I can also use some help getting my mini dialed in.
Tom On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 8:16 AM Paul Fox < pgf@...> wrote: People here and on other forums often talk about having had to clean,
fix, shim, adjust, tweak a new lathe in order to make it accurate and
useable.? And that being willing to do so lets you start with a less
expensive mill, from HF or Vevor, say, rather than one from LMS or
Grizzly.
But I've yet to see an overall guide to what all of that work entails,
and how its done.
Does anyone have a pointer to a video, or a blog, or similar, that goes
through all of what might be entailed?? It's hard to convince myself I
want to go through the effort, without understanding it better.? I'm
pretty sure I have the skills.? But I might not have the patience or
the equipment or tools.
And:? is it always possible for the home hobby user to fully adjust a
cheaper mill?? Are there some problems that just can't be fixed?
paul
=----------------------
paul fox,?pgf@...?(arlington, ma, where it's 41.4 degrees)
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Re: "tuning up" a mini lathe
Well I cannot speak specifically to a mill, Home Shop Machinist has a great book ¡°The Complete Mini-Lathe Workshop¡± by Ted Hansen; a lot of the chapters deal with making the lathe more accurate and robust. ?Pretty amazing array of tooling and add-ons.
?It's currently their featured book: |
davesmith1800
chrisser
Evan