|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
I used a 4x6 in manufacturing for 30 years.
I had other bandsaw like Wells and Marvel . The little saw was great because it was portable. The was used beside welders and machinist.? It would be cutting as they did there work and cut parts they need.? It has place in manufacturing.? The only problem I had was it someone would try adjust or moving the guides.? That by keeping guide at max. After saw cut straight no one was aloud the move guide.? The only time we used coolant was cutting Aluminum that happen once 10 years for aluminum wheels.? Dave |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
Hi Raymond I think that your experience is pretty much typical of 90% of 4x6 owners.? If it works dont mess with it. I am not much into maintenance either, but my science background makes me want to understand why things work like they do, and I keep looking deeper and deeper until I understand.? My bandsaw was a PoS right from the get go in 1987. By that I mean it didn't cut square and I could get it cutting acceptably for the first 20yrs I owned it. Until I got so pissed with it that I analysed it like the science/engineering/geometry problem it is, and now I've pretty much solved all the issues it had and understand the ones I can't fix.? For instance it's most likely NOT poor setup that caused your saw blades to break while cutting - they snap within 20 - 50 hrs of running around the bandwheels, i. e. not cutting and with no guides twisting it (they break in 8-20hrs with guides in place and not cutting!) .? Contrary to reason, tension in the blade has no effect on life. The broken blades had anywhere from 5-30 cracks in them, as shown by dye penetrant testing. I know this from having run 10 blades to destruction in controlled experiments, after getting what I thought were too many breakages in near-continuous cutting.? The reason is: the bandwheels are too small in diameter for the thickness of the blade. I found a graph probably from the 50's or 60's from the 'Hack & Bandsaw Mnfr's Association of America' (some industry group that doesn't exist any more) that showed the minimum diameter for 0.025" blades to be 12", and ours are just over7"!? On the oil issue I recommend that everyone should change to a known 'good' gear oil when they take possession of a saw. New or used.? Because I've seen with my own eyes a brass gear chewed to destruction (1 out of maybe 10-15 that I have inspected is too high to ignore ), and heard of many more through this group, and read of some of those people finding casting sand in the oil (esp from around 2007). You should definitely change yours since it's from that time, though it's not likely yours is faulty since it would have shown by now.? Changing to a Group V, 100%? POE synthetic gear oil means (as OKC Bill will know) that you never have to change it again (these are the oils that they seal into jet engines for their service life).? That RedLine 75W-250 is provably just such an oil (unlike the Lucas 75W-140). Mobil 634 SHC (synthetic-hydro-carbon) is a good Group IV synthetic oil but not in the same longevity class as the RedLine oil and seemingly about the same price Have a happy Christmas everyone - jv On Sun, 24 Dec 2023, 4:16 am Tom Angell via , <tangell=[email protected]> wrote:
|
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
Agree with the Preventive Maintenance approach vs. run to failure.?Plus now, Predictive Maintenance is becoming much more commonplace.? A vast amount of failure analysis and routine monitoring data is being shared among a number of institutions, especially when process and personal safety is involved.? I remember reading that jet engine manufacturers share their fan blade data.
Online rotating equipment monitoring was in its infancy in the early 90's and is now quite sophisticated.? Plus fixed equipment monitoring using drone technology has caught on.? I suppose by now, AI is being adopted as an aid to the failure analysis process. As far as our hobby band saws go, I finally decided to open up my 4X6 HFT gear box after 12 years of use, only to find pretty clean oil, and plenty of it.? But I still added my Lexan view window.? Just because. |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
Kurt, I was a professional maintenance mechanic several times and on a really wide range of equipment types, AND a hobbyist. Before that I helped my dad with his hobby farm. Been fixing and maintaining stuff since I was about six. :) Doesn't make me an expert. Does give me more than a tad bit of experience. Hobby shop machines don't need the kind of detailed procedures the USAF & AUS use on their equipment. Though it surely won't hurt them.? I also knew a guy who bought a 67 Dodge Coronet with the 440 & a six-pack brand new. I was 12 in 67. That guy was a nut. When he filled the gas tank, he changed the oil and filter. I met him in 1988, and he had over a million miles on that Dodge. And the engine was as tight as when he bought it.? Good maintenance won't prevent all breakdowns. But it sure can help. Good lubrication can help. Good visual inspection can help. Listening to the machine and knowing what it sounds like when it's working properly can help.? The Air Force did some testing? a few years before I enlisted. They took several bases where they had similar aircraft types and set them up to do careful preventive maintenance. Several more bases, again with similar aircraft, got told to run their stuff until it broke and then fix it. My instructor said it was about 30% cheaper to run the bases where they did preventive maintenance. The jet I worked on had two very powerful engines. It cost about $100k to do a teardown & inspection on those engines, and replace the consumable parts. And that was cheaper than running them to death. It cost about $12k per hour to fly the aircraft. And they cost $27 million each.? A cheap plexiglass window isn't necessarily a bad idea. ;) Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 09:26:52 AM CST, KURT <kurt.laughlin@...> wrote:
"You're not understanding, Kurt. No on said a hobbyist NEEDS a transparent cover.Some folks just WANT one." I understood exactly what it was, however, when I asked what benefit it gave, I got several posts justifying it for functional reasons. If you are just going to do stuff for the sake of having something to do, say that and don't try to make it seem like it was a vital enterprise. Kurt Laughlin |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
Mobil SHC 634 is what we used in the gear boxes on my former employers mat machine. 15hp motor, I think. Most of the nearly 8 years I worked there, that thing ran 24 hours a day 5 days a week or more. Just before Covid 19 it was running 24/7 with only holidays off the last couple of years. Did have to replace one of the gear boxes just before I left, but the machine had been running for 14 years or do by then. IIRC that motor & gearbox had been pulling an average 30,000 mats a month through the machine for the 6 years I worked maintenance there. It's good stuff! And a quart should do a couple of fills at least, and I think more like four at 250ml per. Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 08:49:34 AM CST, mondosmetals <jwrey@...> wrote:
This discussion of gear box oil ha=s gotten me to thinking..... I have a JET HVBS-56M 5x6 metal cutting bandsaw I purchased new in September 2009. I run it at the slowest speed always. The blade runs cooler and it is less likely for the teeth to loose temper this way. Some aluminum, some tough alloy steels, mostly mild steel like rebar and structural shapes.? I confess I have not yet changed the gearbox oil. The manual recommends change after 90 days of operation and every six months thereafter. In 14 years I think I used all of 20, maybe 25 blades.? Few wore out, most were take out of service for chipped or broken teeth or the blade just broke while cutting, usually from poor setup. The machine sits for many months without being used then I will have a project that may require a single cut or big projects may require a dozen or more cuts, some small some big, then it sits idle for another 3 to 6 months. The manual calls for MOBIL SHC 634, currently priced at about $25.15/qt on amazon dot com. Maybe I will change the oil this winter. Before roasting me for lack of maintenance on my saw, consider this: How often - time wise or mileage wise -? do you change the gear oil in the rear axle of your pickup truck? How many miles has that band run around the wheels? Raymond |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
开云体育Thanks for your input. ?Your use and maintenance procedures (or lack thereof). mirror mine exactly. ?Moreover I pretty much just took mine out of the box and put it to work. ?First cuts proved pretty much square and true so I have never felt the need to fine tune them to with in a few thousanths of an inch. ?I sort of admire those that do but have never found it part of my psyche to take things that far.
|
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
Yeah! What he said!!!? ;) Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 10:07:12 AM CST, TomDiv <tomdiviney@...> wrote:
I completely agree. Many of us spend MUCH more time babying, enhancing, accumulating our tools than we do actually using them for something. That is indeed the beauty of a hobby - It is not the end product, but the pursuit of knowledge, skills, and happiness !! -Tom |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
You're not understanding, Kurt. No on said a hobbyist NEEDS a transparent cover.Some folks just WANT one. It's? the tool junkies version of putting headers on a Chevette. :) Unless you really do use heck out of the poor thing! Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 09:34:02 AM CST, KURT <kurt.laughlin@...> wrote:
That's what I figured, but has the oil level ever dropped on you; gotten dirty enough that it necessary to change it more frequently than the manual recommends; or have had the gears worn enough that you had to do something about it? I can't imagine any of us use the saw (motor running) like it was in a production machine shop where an intensive maintenance regime is needed.? If the saw is used less than 100 hours a year; if you aren't wearing out five or more blades a year; you are not going to see problems with the gearbox or the oil, and the effort to make a transparent cover and gasket is unnecessary.? My saw's manual says to change the oil once a year.? If you do that, you'll have plenty of time to note any problems. Kurt Laughlin |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
It's thick enough that you can put drain and fill plugs in it (but if you put good oil in you never need to change it).? And of course you can always see there is enough oil (not that you wouldn't notice a puddle on the floor)? I needed a clear cover to see what level different amounts of oil reached when I was trying to figure out why my gearbox was getting so hot.? For instance, I would not have known that the Lucas 75W-140 'super slick synthetic' gear oil instantly turned white (air/oil emulsion) when the gearbox turned. Not good.? So all in all it doesn't do a hellava lot for ordinary usage. A nice-to-have.? You are right that any SAE 140 grade gear oil will do the job and probably outlast the owner, but I took Tom's question about oil to mean was there a 'best' oil for these gearboxes and there clearly is - that RedLine 75W~250 Heavyweight Shockproof (I didn't make up the name - that's what it's called). It takes twice as long as ordinary oils to reach a gearbox temp of 150F when cutting continuously. To me that means it's lower friction/less wear, it's better than all the others - jvOn Fri, 22 Dec 2023, 4:47 am KURT, <kurt.laughlin@...> wrote: What benefit does a clear gearbox cover provide? |
|
Re: Entire head coming down at an angle?
You can see the oil level at a glance, and also see the gears condition and if there are a lot of metal flakes in the gear lube. Maintenance mechanics love clear gearbox covers. :) Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 09:47:51 AM CST, KURT <kurt.laughlin@...> wrote:
What benefit does a clear gearbox cover provide? Kurt Laughlin |
davesmith1800
John Vreede
Bill Buckalew
Bill in OKC too
Tom Angell