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Well, I do know that the Chinese motor that came on my Grizzly, is poor, and is overrated. No debate on that.

Whether Grizzly spec'd it or not, or blindly approved it, is irrelevant. Shame on them if they did. Double shame on them if they still do. We live in a price driven market, so that's the driving factor of why it had what it had.

The price of my particular Grizzly band saw, has more than doubled, so maybe a better motor is part of that increase. I don't know, and it's also irrelevant to me. I own a saw.....with a good motor....now.

I replaced it with a US made motor, which, is actually rated and performs as advertised. The Chinese motor was and did not. Other Chinese motors I have been around, have not been much better. That doesn't mean they can't make a good motor. It means the motors on these saws are not.

Simple as that!

Other Bill

I don't know that?Chinese made motors are necessarily?poor or overrated, you just get what you pay for (sometimes less!).?

Remember it's the American parent company that specified the motor on the Grizzly and?HF .? They chose to advertise its horsepower?as power output, as Grizzly used to (not sure now), or maximum motor-current?x voltage converted to horsepower, so is power input as HF do (and thus is overrated by 100-200%).

Chinese?made stuff can be very well made or very poorly made, depending on how much the customer is willing to pay.? Looking back to when I was a child in the 1950's; 'Made in Japan' was a by-word for 'crappy' but not now.? I think the Chinese made stuff is better than the Japanese stuff was, or Taiwanese or Korean stuff for that?matter, at an equivalent stage of that country's industrial development.

The running temperature?of a motor, as Jim indicated, is highly variable.? It is specified according to the temperature rating of the insulation around the wire in the motor winding, called 'winding insulation class' or just 'class' on the motor plate.? The following classes are recognised.

Winding Insulation Class	Max Temperature °C	Max Temperature °F
A	105	221
E (IEC motors only)	120	248
B*	130	266
F*	155	311
H	180	356

* most common industrial motor classes.

Where the motor is rated to run continuously, it can operate indefinitely below its max operating temperature given by its class..

My 1987 saw had a?Class?A motor which burned out and was replaced with a?TEFC class F,?the other two (yr2000 and 2020) are Open class E motors.

Old Class A motors had relatively poor insulation on the wire, that broke down above 105C?(220F), so they necessarily had thicker wire (i.e. more copper) to keep the temperature?down and so weighed much more than higher classes of motor. but you can still burn yourself on a Class A motor operating within its normal parameters.?

Modern TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motors are generally class F or H and you'll burn yourself very quickly on these, even operating at relatively low power outputs, and they can run all day at over 300F!?

Mnfr's are always trying to get more out of less, and one of the more recent innovations?is copper coated aluminium wire for the windings.? Not sure how this will pan out in the long run. but aluminium has almost as high heat and electrical conductivity as copper at 1/3 the weight and inertia, so it will find a place.

American made, or Chinese made, they run at the temperature dictated by the actual load, run time and their winding insulation class - jv

On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 1:12 PM Bill Armstrong <bill_1955@...> wrote:

Chinese made motors, are highly overrated. That's why I replaced it with
a USA made model.

The new motor I have now, doesn't get too hot to touch, even with long
run times.

On 3/23/2022 5:09 PM, Jim.Klessig@... via wrote:
> Electrical equipment running at rated is often near 40c, or higher which is indeed too hot to comfortably touch.
> Much is rated for a 30c RISE in a 40c ambient.
>
>
>
>
> Jim Klessig
> Senior Power Systems Engineer
>
> Phone +1 707.497.9611
> Jim.Klessig@...? |? Connect with us at
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Armstrong
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 4:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Mysterious shift in saw alignment
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Vertiv. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
> Free, is a very good price! A better price than I paid for my Grizzly saw no doubt!
>
> I'm happy with it. I adjusted it when I got it, and have had to adjust the tracking a couple times, as it vibrates loose over time. I've replaced all of the guide bearings, and he motor finally started giving out last years, so I replaced it with an American made model. I'm sure I killed it, by sawing for hours on end on some big projects, and getting the motor so hot I couldn't lay a finger on it.
>
> I cut mostly alloys, like 1045 & 4140Q&T, and 304, & 316 stainless steels, so I run nothing but 10/14 bi-metal as well. I could cut aluminum, and the bronzes I use more effeciently with other blades, and have, but do fine running nothing but the 10/14's.
>
> Other Bill
>
>
> On 3/23/2022 2:56 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
>> On 3/23/2022 2:04 PM, Bill Armstrong wrote:
>>> This conversation, sure makes me glad I bought a Grizzly!
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>
>>? ? Mine was free for helping a guy clean out his shop after 3 (yes , 3)
>> giant oak trees fell on it . I don't even know what brand it is (it's
>> kinda metallic green where it still has paint), but it cuts adequately
>> square for me . I usually use 10/14 M42 blades , unless cutting thin
>> sections , then I go to an 18t carbon steel blade .
> --
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I can answer MarkK's wondering about the angle of the teeth to the workpiece at the end of the cut, from experience.? It's actually opposite to how you figured it.? One of my saws finishes the cut almost dead parallel to the vice table before dropping about 1/8" into the slot at the end of the cut.? On wide pieces (4"+) in steel the blade has stalled just before part-off on a number of occasions. When I lifted the sawframe out of? the cut, there was a neat row of holes where all the teeth had punched through the last remaining bit at once, which?caused the blade to stop dead, and stall the motor!?

It actually needs a bit of angle, so that the teeth cut across the bottom of the workpiece normally (being held up by the solid remaining triangle of work). Then with the full bow weight on the teeth?cutting the last remaining bit, the motor still has enough torque?to tear through it, to separate the off-cut. In fact, for wide cuts, the saw cuts quite a bit faster if you can arrange for the teeth to angle across the workpiece all the way through the cut (like propping up the workpiece under its front edge) - jv?

This conversation, sure makes me glad I bought a Grizzly!
:)

Mark2 What is the clearance between the base casting and the pivot shaft axis on your machine? Is it even more than MarkK's?

开云体育

This conversation, sure makes me glad I bought a Grizzly!

:)

Further to my post about measuring the?spacing of the pivot shaft axis from the base - could a few people with those dark red/purple HF's measure them please?? Otherwise we'd have only a sample of 1 to compare with?2 that are known?to be faulty.

Of course it's not the spacing?off the base, where I showed it being measured, that matters, it's the clearance off the vice table surface; but for a given casting shape it's a proxy for whether the ears have been drilled too high.

Mark2 What is the clearance between the base casting and the pivot shaft axis on your machine? Is it even more than MarkK's?

I can answer MarkK's wondering about the angle of the teeth to the workpiece at the end of the cut, from experience.? It's actually opposite to how you figured it.? One of my saws finishes the cut almost dead parallel to the vice table before dropping about 1/8" into the slot at the end of the cut.? On wide pieces (4"+) in steel the blade has stalled just before part-off on a number of occasions. When I lifted the sawframe out of? the cut, there was a neat row of holes where all the teeth had punched through the last remaining bit at once, which?caused the blade to stop dead, and stall the motor!?

It actually needs a bit of angle, so that the teeth cut across the bottom of the workpiece normally (being held up by the solid remaining triangle of work). Then with the full bow weight on the teeth?cutting the last remaining bit, the motor still has enough torque?to tear through it, to separate the off-cut. In fact, for wide cuts, the saw cuts quite a bit faster if you can arrange for the teeth to angle across the workpiece all the way through the cut (like propping up the workpiece under its front edge) - jv?

On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 6:56 AM Mark <mark21056@...> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 12:11 PM, Mark Kimball wrote:

I'm sort of wondering if this might actually be a deliberate "improvement".? If so it's very poorly implemented!

I do understand what you are saying but I really don't agree. Even if the saw is 3/16 deep the angle is slight enough to not be an issue. I think mine is about 1/8" deep and I've not had an issue. In fact I've had the same blade in place for about a year now and it has seen a LOT of steel.?

?

I can't help but notice your back blade guide is very high. I'm guessing this is apropiarte but it also looks like it has been clamped in a much lower position.?

I'm sort of wondering if this might actually be a deliberate "improvement".? If so it's very poorly implemented!

I do understand what you are saying but I really don't agree. Even if the saw is 3/16 deep the angle is slight enough to not be an issue. I think mine is about 1/8" deep and I've not had an issue. In fact I've had the same blade in place for about a year now and it has seen a LOT of steel.?

?

I can't help but notice your back blade guide is very high. I'm guessing this is apropiarte but it also looks like it has been clamped in a much lower position.?

Since Mark2 has a similar problem maybe there's a systematic design and/or manufacturing issue with this particular vintage of saw.?

My saw is about 2-years old. After posting a video with a link to a web store where I sell the plates I sold 15 plate in less that 5 minutes. This was terrible considering I only had 10 in stock! This was a web store setting, I screwed up. Anyway...? I do think these saws are made in batches and I'd say each batch has similar defects based on how the futures were set up and maybe some of the defects carry over between batches. Heck, there might be a million saws with the same defect! You never know.?

In looking at the pictures is it possible that the eye bolts

and the rods that hold the saw to the stand could be warping
the saw base slightly?

?