Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Went looking for Kerry's photo album, it's #12 on 1st page 'Kerrins saw modification", and see there are also drawings for everything in the files section (messages dated 08/17/20) - jv?
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Then I'm pretty sure that the countersunk holes in the table are not square to the blade.? They're?so close together compared to the width of the table that they don't have to be out much to twist it.? When you remake the table, cut the sawblade?line in from the back so there is no gap in front?of the blade and only 0.020" gap behind the blade - you'll?find it much easier to work with. I have no idea why the factories?used such a wide slot in all their tables, it's dangerous! I use a piece of melamine-faced MDF for?its slippery hard surface (see pic - 1st one lasted me for 15yrs, am only on second one now), but one day I'll get around to making Kerry Galvins setup (see photos section) which would be better for you, since you can change the blade without demounting the table like I have to.? If you hardly ever change?blades, then mine is simpler - jv ?
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 9:47 AM tonydi_499 < tonydi@...> wrote: As best as I can measure, it's about 2 3/4" from the edge of the casting to the blade so that's pretty close to your 72-73mm number.?
  
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
I'll take some measurements tomorrow and include more pics.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Another thought The throat width on an old (115 or 4 1/2") saw is a about 72-73mm. If your throat width is more than that, then the blade is not twisted as much as a normal if it is about that then the table is not aligned like a normal table,? Maybe the screw holes are not in the same place in either the table, or the guide bracket, as a normal saw??
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, 5:57 pm tonydi_499, < tonydi@...> wrote: I've used the recommendation that the bearings should touch the blade but still be able to rotate by hand.?
Another thing I've read says most of these saws have one eccentric and one straight shank bolt.? This saw has two eccentric bolts on the top set of bearings and only one on the bottom.
I think if I mill off any more material from the guide and twist it more that I'll run out of adjustment on the eccentrics and will end up heavily loading the inside bearings.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
I've used the recommendation that the bearings should touch the blade but still be able to rotate by hand.?
Another thing I've read says most of these saws have one eccentric and one straight shank bolt.? This saw has two eccentric bolts on the top set of bearings and only one on the bottom.
I think if I mill off any more material from the guide and twist it more that I'll run out of adjustment on the eccentrics and will end up heavily loading the inside bearings.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Uh oh. Sorry, didn't look at the photo and assumed something other than what you were asking.? Looks like the blade is swivelled too much! I've never seen that before. Sometimes swivelling too little but never too much.? Assuming it is assembled properly with guide bars in the seated in their slots and you've already shaved some off that should be enough adjustment. I'm at a loss to explain why it doesn't work. Continuing to mill off the tongue is about the only thing? thing to do.? There's something not right there though. The only way the blade can be at that angle to two screw holes in the top of the 'guide bracket' (that hold the table) is if the gap between the side guide rollers is too large. The mnfr say the gap should be zero to 0.001" while JP recommends ~0.007", you sure you haven't misread and set it at more than that? Come back to us with what you find - jv
Tony 99% of table to blade squareness issues are because the guide bar slots in the saw frame have warped out of parallel with the blade travel. Because they are at 40 degrees (for a 115) or 45 deg (128) to the run of the blade, they tip the table on top of the guide assembly at an angle to both the front and sides of the blade Easy fix. Loosen the lower guide handwheel and push the top of the guide assembly out.? If the squareness gets better then you find the right amount of shim to get the table surface square to side of the blade.? If it gets worse, tip the bottom of the guide bar out at the bottom and you'll find squareness gets better and the shim goes in the bottom.? Stick the pieces to the back of the slot with glue or double sided tape (tape is normally about 3thou thick so take that into account).? Since you don't move that guide shim can be cut from? any material? even plastic from packaging.? Measure from the machined top of the lower guide assembly with the table removed, because flimsy sheet metal table often don't bolt flat or are bent when installed.? Rgds - jv
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, 2:49 am tonydi_499, < tonydi@...> wrote: I've got an old Continental 4x6 that I converted to strictly vertical usage.? The problem I'm having is that I can't adjust the blade to be square to the table.? I've checked everything in Mr Pitkin's great PDF to the best of my ability and it all checks out. The blade rides perfectly on the two wheels. After I took the picture below I even removed the upper and lower bearing guides and milled them to give me the ability to rotate them more than they could before.? I'm now probably about half as far off as the picture but removing even more from the guides just seems like a bad idea, like I'm having to resort to extreme measures to correct something that could be fixed in a more conventional adjustment.? What could I be missing here?
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Tony 99% of table to blade squareness issues are because the guide bar slots in the saw frame have warped out of parallel with the blade travel. Because they are at 40 degrees (for a 115) or 45 deg (128) to the run of the blade, they tip the table on top of the guide assembly at an angle to both the front and sides of the blade Easy fix. Loosen the lower guide handwheel and push the top of the guide assembly out.? If the squareness gets better then you find the right amount of shim to get the table surface square to side of the blade.? If it gets worse, tip the bottom of the guide bar out at the bottom and you'll find squareness gets better and the shim goes in the bottom.? Stick the pieces to the back of the slot with glue or double sided tape (tape is normally about 3thou thick so take that into account).? Since you don't move that guide shim can be cut from? any material? even plastic from packaging.? Measure from the machined top of the lower guide assembly with the table removed, because flimsy sheet metal table often don't bolt flat or are bent when installed.? Rgds - jv
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, 2:49 am tonydi_499, < tonydi@...> wrote: I've got an old Continental 4x6 that I converted to strictly vertical usage.? The problem I'm having is that I can't adjust the blade to be square to the table.? I've checked everything in Mr Pitkin's great PDF to the best of my ability and it all checks out. The blade rides perfectly on the two wheels. After I took the picture below I even removed the upper and lower bearing guides and milled them to give me the ability to rotate them more than they could before.? I'm now probably about half as far off as the picture but removing even more from the guides just seems like a bad idea, like I'm having to resort to extreme measures to correct something that could be fixed in a more conventional adjustment.? What could I be missing here?
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
On 4/13/2021 4:51 PM, Bill Armstrong wrote: What may be wrong, is the two holes in the blade guide, for which the table is bolted to, are not ‘square’ to the blade.
On my grizzly 5 x 6, they are not. They are close, but not quite.
No matter to me, as I seldom use mine in the vertical position with the table I made, and when I do, it’s just for some small parts that I cut freehand anyway.
Other Bill
Mill the surface the table bolts to square with the shank of the blade guide . -- Snag In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns. We shot them.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
What may be wrong, is the two holes in the blade guide, for which the table is bolted to, are not ‘square’ to the blade.?
On my grizzly 5 x 6, they are not. They are close, but not quite.?
No matter to me, as I seldom use mine in the vertical position with the table I made, and when I do, it’s just for some small parts that I cut freehand anyway.?
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On Apr 13, 2021, at 2:43 PM, tonydi_499 <tonydi@...> wrote:
?Don't raise the bridge, lower the river? ;-)
I have, actually, but I keep getting stuck on the idea that something is wrong and I should correct it the "proper" way.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
The easy answer is to simply square the table to the blade, however have you tried to stagger the blade rollers by adding a washer or other suitable spacer on one side so they ride lower on the blade?
Good Luck,
NXr
On Tuesday, April 13, 2021, 04:44:01 PM CDT, tonydi_499 <tonydi@...> wrote:
Don't raise the bridge, lower the river? ;-)
I have, actually, but I keep getting stuck on the idea that something is wrong and I should correct it the "proper" way.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Don't raise the bridge, lower the river? ;-)
I have, actually, but I keep getting stuck on the idea that something is wrong and I should correct it the "proper" way.
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I never got that far on HF blades, the joint just broke when tensioned. Bought them on sale long before I needed them. On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 21:23:40 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Seiter" <d.seiter@...> had a flock of green cheek conures squawk out: So about a month ago, the blade in my saw broke while doing a long cut (2" thick/7" long), probably needed lube!? When I got that blade (HF) it also behaved oddly, but settled and cut really straight.? The new blade (also HF) cuts at about a 7-8 degree angle, which is highly annoying to say the least.? I swapped out the guide bearings, just in case, and although one was toast, it didn't make a difference while cutting.? Are some HF blades bad from the git-go??
-Dave
-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
Have you considered moving the table?
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On Apr 13, 2021, at 7:49 AM, tonydi_499 <tonydi@...> wrote:
?I've got an old Continental 4x6 that I converted to strictly vertical usage.? The problem I'm having is that I can't adjust the blade to be square to the table.? I've checked everything in Mr Pitkin's great PDF to the best of my ability and
it all checks out. The blade rides perfectly on the two wheels. After I took the picture below I even removed the upper and lower bearing guides and milled them to give me the ability to rotate them more than they could before.? I'm now probably about half
as far off as the picture but removing even more from the guides just seems like a bad idea, like I'm having to resort to extreme measures to correct something that could be fixed in a more conventional adjustment.? What could I be missing here?
<20210406_163013.jpg>
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Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
I've got an old Continental 4x6 that I converted to strictly vertical usage.? The problem I'm having is that I can't adjust the blade to be square to the table.? I've checked everything in Mr Pitkin's great PDF to the best of my ability and it all checks out. The blade rides perfectly on the two wheels. After I took the picture below I even removed the upper and lower bearing guides and milled them to give me the ability to rotate them more than they could before.? I'm now probably about half as far off as the picture but removing even more from the guides just seems like a bad idea, like I'm having to resort to extreme measures to correct something that could be fixed in a more conventional adjustment.? What could I be missing here? 
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FWIW I buy my metal cutting bandsaw blades from for my JET 5x6? HVBS-56M
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Q? 601 Series - Qsaw? M42 Bimetal
??0.5 x 10-14 (0.025) ??@ 5' 4 1/2 "
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To minimize the shipping cost per-blade I order them in batches of five and that will last me 3 to 6 years depending on how much I use the saw. I do not use any lubricant regardless of what I am cutting or how thick the material is. I find if I try to dribble even a small amount of oil of any kind onto the blade as it enters the cut then chips tend to stick to the blade and cause problems entering the cut after the blade has gone around both wheels. I know purists will rig up tooth brushes to clean the blade after it comes out of the cut, that's far too much OCD for me.
I work mostly with structural steel (flat, square, angle, channel, sq and rect tubing, pipe) and various alloys such as 8620, 4140, and? tool steels I buy as round stock for turning on my lathe. I have successfully sawn steel rounds up to 6" diameter. Occasionally I will need to cut aluminum and I will use the same blade.
Thin stock is what destroys the blade breaking teeth off it. If I need to cut thin material I try to lay it flat. If that isn't practical I hold the head and lower it manually very gently through the cut. Gang cutting several pieces of thin flat bar does not help unless the bundle is firmly clamped close to the cut on both sides of the blade.
I recently had a problem in which the saw had started cutting an angle to one side. After checking blade alignment and inspecting the blade I found some teeth missing so I put on a new blade. Voila! Cutting perfectly square again.
Raymond
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I buy a bunch of Harbor Freight (or Fright) tools.? So, I'm not a HF "basher".? But I've had problems with their blades.? Saw blades and bandsaw blades.? A couple of the bandsaw blades broke at the weld.? In one case had been overground and was out of line so it "clunked" every time it touched the backing bearing.? I've also found that when cutting rounds or circles that the set in the blades drops off overly quickly.??
A blade cutting at an angle suggests the set is not symmetric and favors one side more than the other.?
Bruce
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The HF bi-metals are the only ones I've ever used (at least until now!).? They've always worked great for me, even after abuse and teeth loss.??
-Dave
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021, 05:55:25 PM PDT, WHEELER GREEN <sparco505@...> wrote:
Has anyone used the bi-metal blade for the 4x6 bandsaw? How did it work out? Packaging says made in USA. Cost is $29.99. I'm currently using a Lennox.
Wheeler
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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I've used Lenox and Bosch in my saw.? I've cut railroad track using the?Bosch blades.? I think the Lenox are marginally?better but I have to order them and Bosch can be picked up at Lowes.
James
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 7:55 PM WHEELER GREEN < sparco505@...> wrote: Has anyone used the bi-metal blade for the 4x6 bandsaw? How did it work out? Packaging says made in USA. Cost is $29.99. I'm currently using a Lennox.
Wheeler
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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All I have used for the last 10 years or more is bi-metal. Lenox, and back when Enco was still around, Irwin’s, as they were 2 for the price of 1 Lenox.
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The Irwin doesn’t hold up as well as the Lenox, but it was a darn good substitute when the price was half what a Lenox was.
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Other Bill
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From: 4x6bandsaw@groups.io [mailto:4x6bandsaw@groups.io]
On Behalf Of WHEELER GREEN
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 5:55 PM
To: 4x6bandsaw@groups.io
Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] sawblade?
?
Has anyone used the bi-metal blade for the 4x6 bandsaw? How did it work out? Packaging says made in USA. Cost is $29.99. I'm currently using a Lennox.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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John Vreede
Stephen Castello
James Rice