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Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

[email protected]
 

Thanks Paolo.? The thing didn't come with any instructions so that's a good start - jv
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

 

How about repurposing a microwave transformer instead of making your own.? There is a ton of information on the wed about cutting the secondary windings off a salvaged microwave transformer for home brew EDM machines, spot welders, arc welders, etc.? Seems like a no brainer to do the same for a blade welder.? Some designers are even using several transformers together for increased power.

A simple google search turned up hundreds of pages about repurposing and rewinding the secondary of microwave transformers.

James



On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 9:08 AM ac9459427@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
?

I have been attempting to repair broken blades using silver solder and a torch. Results have been somewhat uneven. Some blades held up pretty well while others broke again at the joint. I did some net research on blade welders but found they are outside my price range. I did find some used ones on eBay but still rather pricey. While searching I came upon the website below which describes a homemade blade welder. It looks to be a rather challenging project but doable. Has anyone built one of these and if so, what was the result? The author wound his own transformer for the power supply. I doubt a transformer like this is available and winding your own is probably the only alternative. I've rewound transformers in the past but nothing of this type. I find this intriguing but before I forge ahead I thought I'd solicit opinions from the group. I await your response!
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

 

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My suggestion for mastering the annealing is to try it in dim light and get a feel of how long and how frequently you need to push the button to get the blade to start to turn dark red: when you get the weld at that temperature, you start decreasing the time/frequency of your pushing the anneal button for at least twice the time you feel is necessary.

Start with a chunk of an old blade (even if it is not circular, it does not matter, unless in real life you're trying to weld 20-30" long blades - i.e. even shorter than what is used by a portaband): anneal a portion and try to bend it. If it doesn't break, bingo! Try to remember what you did and repeat it.

Paolo

On 5/10/2019 03:55, vreededesign@... [4x6bandsaw] wrote:

I think the plans are from a Popular Mechanics book my father had 60 yrs ago, so it's pretty old technology.

Recently I got given a relatively new stand alone band saw blade welder that had some faults and got it fixed by electricians at a welder-service shop, but, alas, haven't had much luck in getting good welds, mostly from my inability to control the annealing.? I am assured the welder is as its maker intended. It's not the first instance of blade butt welders being difficult to get good results from, that?I've heard of.
My point is that you're maybe going to build an old design welder that will be difficult to get all the right pieces for, and then probably just as difficult to get working properly.??
I think you'd be better off spending a bit more time jigging the blade for brazing, and then using the right braze (I'd be using 630*C melting point silver solder). There are some neat grinding jigs on YouTube to get the scarf right - jv
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

[email protected]
 

I think the plans are from a Popular Mechanics book my father had 60 yrs ago, so it's pretty old technology.
Recently I got given a relatively new stand alone band saw blade welder that had some faults and got it fixed by electricians at a welder-service shop, but, alas, haven't had much luck in getting good welds, mostly from my inability to control the annealing.? I am assured the welder is as its maker intended. It's not the first instance of blade butt welders being difficult to get good results from, that?I've heard of.
My point is that you're maybe going to build an old design welder that will be difficult to get all the right pieces for, and then probably just as difficult to get working properly.??
I think you'd be better off spending a bit more time jigging the blade for brazing, and then using the right braze (I'd be using 630*C melting point silver solder). There are some neat grinding jigs on YouTube to get the scarf right - jv
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

Ralph Hulslander
 

Thanks, luckily I have a friend with a welder and he has been machinest for fifty so knows what he is doing.

Ralph
?

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 9:58 AM Paolo Amedeo machineshop@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
?

Ralph,
The challenge with both welding and brazing blades is that the blade
cools down very quickly, becoming brittle. After some frustration with
brazing, due mostly to mistakes already pointed out by others (e.g.
using a brazing rod instead of a ribbon, not controlling properly the
thickness of the braze, etc.), I cave-in once I found a blade welder for
a decent price.

With that one I indeed learned that my main mistake was that I didn't
anneal the blades properly. After learning how to anneal them properly,
my blades work much better.

Paolo

On 5/8/2019 08:44, Ralph Hulslander rhulslander@... [4x6bandsaw]
wrote:
> Bruce why anneal after? Where does any hardness come from unless you
> are quenching the joint after welding?
>
> I like your method, that is how I will do it when I get around to
> doing it.
>
> You can do the same with brazing rod.
>
> Ralph
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

 

Ralph,
The challenge with both welding and brazing blades is that the blade cools down very quickly, becoming brittle. After some frustration with brazing, due mostly to mistakes already pointed out by others (e.g. using a brazing rod instead of a ribbon, not controlling properly the thickness of the braze, etc.), I cave-in once I found a blade welder for a decent price.

With that one I indeed learned that my main mistake was that I didn't anneal the blades properly. After learning how to anneal them properly, my blades work much better.

Paolo

On 5/8/2019 08:44, Ralph Hulslander rhulslander@... [4x6bandsaw] wrote:
Bruce why anneal after? Where does any hardness come from unless you are quenching the joint after welding?

I like your method, that is how I will do it when I get around to doing it.

You can do the same with brazing rod.

Ralph
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

Ralph Hulslander
 

Bruce why anneal after? Where does any hardness come from unless you are quenching the joint after welding?

I like your method, that is how I will do it when I get around to doing it.

You can do the same with brazing rod.

Ralph

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:36 AM Bruce Rogers brogers9941@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
?

I have found that a tapered (scarf) joint of about 3/16" long and silver solder is stronger than the original weld.? I take either a ribbon of 55% silver solder or a round piece hammered flat and I place it between the two pieces of blade (held under a little tension) in a home made fixture along with SS flux between the clean blade surfaces.? Then I heat it up with a propane torch until I just see it melt.? Then I remove the heat.? I get much better results than if I try to add silver solder to the joint.? When I added silver solder to the joint, the flux sometimes burned and interfered with the SS.? After, I anneal the blade with a propane torch.??
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

 

I have found that a tapered (scarf) joint of about 3/16" long and silver solder is stronger than the original weld.? I take either a ribbon of 55% silver solder or a round piece hammered flat and I place it between the two pieces of blade (held under a little tension) in a home made fixture along with SS flux between the clean blade surfaces.? Then I heat it up with a propane torch until I just see it melt.? Then I remove the heat.? I get much better results than if I try to add silver solder to the joint.? When I added silver solder to the joint, the flux sometimes burned and interfered with the SS.? After, I anneal the blade with a propane torch.??
Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

 

They also can be used to make awesome electro magnets for mag-chucks. YouTube has many how to vids showing the various uses of old microwaves. Beware the magnetron!

Best regards and God bless,
Darren McCarley
817-793-8241
On May 7, 2019, at 3:26 PM, "Malcolm Parker-Lisberg mparkerlisberg@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:

?

An old microwave will provide a transformer that is easy to rewind.. The primary an secondary are separated. The core is rated to at least 600W You remove the fine wired secondary winding, cut through the wire, punch the remainder out from the laminations and add a new secondary winding using welding cable.
Make sure you discharge the high voltage capacitor with an insulated screwdriver, as it can still hold several kilovolts.

The transformers also make good spot welders.

Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/7/19, ac9459427@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:

Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder
To: 4x6bandsaw@...
Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 2:55 PM


?










I have been attempting to
repair broken blades using silver solder and a torch.
Results have been somewhat uneven. Some blades held up
pretty well while others broke again at the joint. I did
some net research on blade welders but found they are
outside my price range. I did find some used ones on eBay
but still rather pricey. While searching I came upon the
website below which describes a homemade blade welder. It
looks to be a rather challenging project but doable. Has
anyone built one of these and if so, what was the result?
The author wound his own transformer for the power supply. I
doubt a transformer like this is available and winding your
own is probably the only alternative. I've rewound
transformers in the past but nothing of this type. I find
this intriguing but before I forge ahead I thought I'd
solicit opinions from the group. I await your
response!
http://www.packratworkshop.com/pdf/BandsawBladeWelder2.pdf












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Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
 

An old microwave will provide a transformer that is easy to rewind. The primary an secondary are separated. The core is rated to at least 600W You remove the fine wired secondary winding, cut through the wire, punch the remainder out from the laminations and add a new secondary winding using welding cable.
Make sure you discharge the high voltage capacitor with an insulated screwdriver, as it can still hold several kilovolts.

The transformers also make good spot welders.

Malcolm



I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5/7/19, ac9459427@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:

Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder
To: 4x6bandsaw@...
Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 2:55 PM


?










I have been attempting to
repair broken blades using silver solder and a torch.
Results have been somewhat uneven. Some blades held up
pretty well while others broke again at the joint. I did
some net research on blade welders but found they are
outside my price range. I did find some used ones on eBay
but still rather pricey. While searching I came upon the
website below which describes a homemade blade welder. It
looks to be a rather challenging project but doable. Has
anyone built one of these and if so, what was the result?
The author wound his own transformer for the power supply. I
doubt a transformer like this is available and winding your
own is probably the only alternative. I've rewound
transformers in the past but nothing of this type. I find
this intriguing but before I forge ahead I thought I'd
solicit opinions from the group. I await your
response!













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Re: Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

Ralph Hulslander
 

ac9459427, where are you located? Someone in the neighborhood might have a welder.


Ralph

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 10:08 AM ac9459427@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
?

I have been attempting to repair broken blades using silver solder and a torch. Results have been somewhat uneven. Some blades held up pretty well while others broke again at the joint. I did some net research on blade welders but found they are outside my price range. I did find some used ones on eBay but still rather pricey. While searching I came upon the website below which describes a homemade blade welder. It looks to be a rather challenging project but doable. Has anyone built one of these and if so, what was the result? The author wound his own transformer for the power supply. I doubt a transformer like this is available and winding your own is probably the only alternative. I've rewound transformers in the past but nothing of this type. I find this intriguing but before I forge ahead I thought I'd solicit opinions from the group. I await your response!
Homemade Bandsaw Blade Welder

 

I have been attempting to repair broken blades using silver solder and a torch. Results have been somewhat uneven. Some blades held up pretty well while others broke again at the joint. I did some net research on blade welders but found they are outside my price range. I did find some used ones on eBay but still rather pricey. While searching I came upon the website below which describes a homemade blade welder. It looks to be a rather challenging project but doable. Has anyone built one of these and if so, what was the result? The author wound his own transformer for the power supply. I doubt a transformer like this is available and winding your own is probably the only alternative. I've rewound transformers in the past but nothing of this type. I find this intriguing but before I forge ahead I thought I'd solicit opinions from the group. I await your response!


http://www.packratworkshop.com/pdf/BandsawBladeWelder2.pdf
New file uploaded to 4x6bandsaw

[email protected]
 

Hello,

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File : /KingCanadaKc128CbS4UsersManual.pdf
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Re: 0.35 blade?

[email protected]
 

Bill's right on the money.
Slower to cut by about 25-30% (removing .035/.025X material), more tension to get it to cut properly, more load on bearings, crack more readily (doesn't like the smaller radius), though that's all pretty small beer.
Biggest drawback I'd say is having to reset the blade-to-guideroller gap each time to get it to cut square vertically down.??
I can't think where a wider kerf will be that valuable, better to have different TPI blade in .025, than an extra in .035
If you really think its worth it, I certainly wouldn't get it in Bimetal, Flexback would do as well in most metals and be more flexible as well, reducing those loads etc? - jv
Re: 0.35 blade?

David Frantz
 

I wouldn’t suggest it. You may get away with the thicker blade but it will likely fatigue much faster
Re: 0.35 blade?

 

开云体育

Well….a .035 blade will work, but is not ideal on a small saw.

Thicker blade does not bend as easily. The worst is the twist required to turn 90 degrees from the blade guide to the drive wheel. It’s a short distance on a 4” x 6”. Same problem exists from the idler to the upper blade guide, but not as dramatic.

Just the diameter of the drive & idlers is also a problem.

So….yeah….assuming there is enough adjustment in the blade guide adjustment to fit the .035” blade, (I don’t know that there is…) ?it will work, but it will be tougher on ALL the bearings. Drive & idler wheels, and the guides.

May also be hard to tension, and the blade may tend to walk off the drive wheel, because of the increased force it has from the twist, compared to a .025” blade.

?

Also, switching back & forth, will require adjusting every time you do.

I use Irwin 10-14 blades, 99.9% of the time. The thickness is consistent, and I don’t have to adjust the blade guide bearings for a blade change.

A .001” or more on the thickness, will affect the tracking of the cut, and I know this from using different blades from different manufacturers. .025” is nominal.

?

And, I would guess it will cut slower. Wider kerf….more to cut.

Also a bit more material waste. Not a biggie by any means….but exists.

?

Bill

?

?

From: 4x6bandsaw@... [mailto:4x6bandsaw@...]
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2019 9:43 AM
To: 4x6bandsaw@...
Subject: [4x6bandsaw] 0.35 blade?

?

?

Hello all.? I ordered blades for my Jet 4x6 on sawblade.com and the selector showed .25 & .35 thickness compatibility.? I should looked at the manual first as it shows it is specified for only .25.? I would like the use of a thicker blade from time to time if possible, so any thoughts on how to modify it to get it to work?? I would think just a slight smaller set of roller bearings is all that is needed.? Thanks for your help and all the great info here!?

?

KRS

?
0.35 blade?

 

Hello all.? I ordered blades for my Jet 4x6 on sawblade.com and the selector showed .25 & .35 thickness compatibility.? I should looked at the manual first as it shows it is specified for only .25.? I would like the use of a thicker blade from time to time if possible, so any thoughts on how to modify it to get it to work?? I would think just a slight smaller set of roller bearings is all that is needed.? Thanks for your help and all the great info here!?

KRS
Re: How to remove slop from arm pivot

[email protected]
 

Hi Glen
Just been pondering your reply to removing the slop.
You shouldn't have to use a clamp to get the pivot arm snug against the base pivot ears.? At least not so much that there is any bending/tension in the pivot arm. Cast iron doesn't like tension or bending, though its great in compression.
You can check whether it is by releasing the 5/16" bolts that fix the pivot arm the the sawframe casting and see what happens.? Use a scriber to mark across the joint so you can see which way it moves when you release the bolts. There is quite a bit of slop in that joint, as its the primary adjustment to get the bandsaw blade to run at 90 degrees to the pivot shaft.
1. If it just slips inward along the slots (which is what I'd expect if you've pulled the bottom of the pivot arm across with a clamp) then you will (most likely) have restored the original setting.? Use? an engineers square in the vice to line up the blade as square to the vice back (which should be parallel to the pivot shaft before you start) and re-tighten the bolts. That will make it cut squarer vertically down in metal, though you may need to tweak the angle of the guide brackets to make the blade square to the vice table in front elevation to get it exactly right.?
2. If the joint springs apart or doesn't move, there's not much you need do.? It just means the pivot shaft hole on the sawframe ear is not quite aligned with the one in the pivot arm.? Just re-tighten the bolts while using the engineers square to maintain alignment, but at least you'll know that its in the best position - jv?
Re: How to remove slop from arm pivot

[email protected]
 

Hi moto?
Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, I've been out of the country.
I take it you're talking about the blade-to-guideroller clearance. There are 2 different schools of thought on? this, the manufacturers and the users. The only thing they do agree on is that you should NOT run the bearings tight on the blade (i.e.steel bits are bending to let the blade pass).? This causes the bearings to fail and cracks the blade by acting like an english-wheel.?
Manufacturers say set the clearance at zero to 2thou" max. and that its the most important setting on the saw. Users say the guide roller bearing fail too quickly when set like that so recommend 7 thou" +/- 2thou" as you saw in the article Carl sent you.? There arguments to support both. I believe the right setting lies in combining the best of both.
The arguments go like this:
The blade cuts in the direction its pointing.? Once the blade is set up to cut square, the more rigidly its is guided the better and longer it will cut square, which is why industrial bandsaws use carbide slipper guides set with next to no clearance.?
Why should a 4x6 be different? Because the roller guides can roll swarf chips through the nip between the blade back and the guide rollers, especially the ones? just after the cut. When there is no clearance, if a chip goes through, it will send a shock load through the balls and races of the bearing, the force spike is enough to damage it.? This reduces the life of the bearing enormously.? User experience shows that set with zero-2thou" clearance the side guide bearings fail regularly and often, hence John Pitkin's recommendation to run ~7thou" clearance.? It is many times worse if you use cutting fluid (as you must do when cutting aluminium and should do on high grade steels) since lots of chips stick to the side of the wet blade and roll through the nip. On the other hand if you only cut mild steel, which falls away from the teeth, swarf hardly ever gets to be rolled through the nip and zero-2thou" setting is easiest to set and maintain and is OK to use.
Since I cut a lot of aluminium and brush on kerosene, up until now I've always used 5 thou" clearance. Its not that easy to get a consistent 5 thou clearance and the angle of the blade changes as the clearance changes, so this is much harder to set up to cut square.
But I found when cutting multiple pieces of aluminium that, even when set to cut square initially, I'd slowly loose vertical squareness of cut.? Thin plates of squished aluminium swarf were building up on the sides of the blade and on the surface of the guide rollers.? When the buildup was scraped off (needed a chisel to do it!) it cut square again.?
The reason it cuts out-of-square is as follows.? When you run wider clearance, the blade is slanting across the gap between the 2 rollers, The angle of slant gets less as the swarf builds up on the blade and rollers. The blade will then point away from the vice (the only direction it is free to move), and so it cuts away from the vice.??
This angle change is less if the rollers are set with zero - 2 thou clearance, but the buildup still occurs and you english-wheel the blade and the bearings run tight on the blade, destroying them.?
I believe the best way is to set the blade with 0-2thou" clearance? for best support and easiest setting, and make sure no swarf can get to the nip between the blade and guide rollers by putting a blade scraper in front of the bottom guide roller.? If you check out the document called 'Liquid Coolant Lube on a 4x6 Bandsaw.pdf' in the Files section of the site you'll see the 2 different types I've made.
Hope that helps - jv
?
?
Re: How to remove slop from arm pivot

 

开云体育

Glen, take a look at the attached document.
?
CarlH
?

From: moto52000@... [4x6bandsaw]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 10:07 AM
To: 4x6bandsaw@...
Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Re: How to remove slop from arm pivot
?
?

Thanks JV,? I used a clamp to help push the pivot in all the way before tightening the setscrew and that seemed to resolve the issue.? Several test cuts and all seems good now.??

?
I still have to fine tune the blade guide bearing but it's cutting acceptable for now.? How much pressure on the blade is recommended? I've seen recommendations anywhere from light as in you should be able to rotate the bearings by hand to as tight as possible.???
?
Glen
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