Re: Hydraulic Downfeed Cylinder
Didn't see your message until just a bit ago. Yahoo had it my spam folder. Hope I've fixed that! Looks good, and I hope it works well! Does that replace the spring? Mine is sitting in the back yard waiting for me to have space to bring it in and restore it. Hopefully sometime before the end of the year.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Monday, October 12, 2020, 03:44:17 AM CDT, kerrin.galvin via groups.io <kerrin.galvin@...> wrote:
Hi guys,
?Here¡¯s a picture of the hydraulic downfeed cylinder I¡¯ve just finished.
i saw it on Halligans YouTube channel, I had been thinking about building one for a while. The design is from Machinists Workshop magazine. I got a copy of the mag, volume 28, number 5, & volume 29 number 2 with a follow up article which contains ideas that Halligan included from input from guys who viewed his videos. You could possibly build it with out the magazines but I figured I¡¯d make less stuff ups with something to follow!?
I haven¡¯t used it in anger yet, but after getting, I hope, all the air out it works well!
Cheers Kerrin
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Hydraulic Downfeed Cylinder
Hi guys,
?Here¡¯s a picture of the hydraulic downfeed cylinder I¡¯ve just finished.
i saw it on Halligans YouTube channel, I had been thinking about building one for a while. The design is from Machinists Workshop magazine. I got a copy of the mag, volume 28, number 5, & volume 29 number 2 with a follow up article which contains ideas that Halligan included from input from guys who viewed his videos. You could possibly build it with out the magazines but I figured I¡¯d make less stuff ups with something to follow!?
I haven¡¯t used it in anger yet, but after getting, I hope, all the air out it works well!
Cheers Kerrin
|
Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
Hi Dave I've been out of the loop for a couple days. Yes the wood only gets you so far vertically, but can't do any better horizontally cutting steel. The dynamic movement of the blade means in?the end, the vertical squareness is always 'cut metal?then adjust', but you should be able to get it pretty close with wood. If it changes a lot from wood to metal, then most likely your blade is damaged and if you adjust it to cut square in steel, it will be out-of-square again when you put on a different blade.? Wood bandsaw people have a special name for when they have to angle the work to the blade just to get it to cut straight., they call it 'lead'.? A brand new blade does not 'lead', but since any little thing will damage a wood saw blade they have to cope with it. In a metal bandsaw you should be able to change from one blade to another with no change in squareness (it might change at the very fine level, but should not put it outside the 0.003"/" squareness)? Getting the vice back square to the pivot should not be much of an issue, I use 12" Verniers, and Rick uses a bar clamped to 1-2-3 blocks, but that's no use unless you've?got verniers or 1-2-3 blocks.? Ricks method works just as well if you clamp the bar to a set square (plastic drawing square or engineers), you've just got to be more careful lining things up. Within +/-0.004" over?the width of the fixed jaw is OK.? As you probably found, the pivot bolt in the fixed jaw can be sloppy and the whole lot moves when you tighten it.? I drilled mine out and tapped the base to take a much bigger bolt, with no thread where it pivots, to get a good fit. Pinning the jaw (tapered pin is best but a?steel dowel pin is OK too) is easier than having a threaded adjuster.? This relationship can never change, so no need to adjust.?? But getting the blade square to pivot is an issue when you are just tapping the pivot arm-to-sawframe?joint.? Attached is a picture of a little push-push adjustment screw device I made so that I could micro adjust the joint and then its dead easy,?so long as you push it the right?way - that takes a bit of getting your head around.? It's bent out of 1/8" mild steel strap and fixed with the pulley guard bolt, and sundry tapped holes in the edge of the sawframe?with washers to get the spacing right.? I used M5 so 3/16UNF would do. You slacken the 5/16" clamp bolts then slacken one side and push from the other to make the joint move slightly and retighten the clamp bolts and retest squareness.? Just a small movement here makes for a BIG movement at the point of cutting, 1/4 of a turn on UNF threads make a noticable difference in squareness.? That would be too much if the thread of the push bolt was UNC - jv
Thanks guys so much for the help.? ?I pretty much followed the Wilton manual for alignment of both the vertical (N-S) and horizontal (E-W) alignments.? ??
I also took after the table with a new bastard file.? ?The table was actually pretty far out of flat - I think it was well over 0.006".? ?After filing, I got it within my smallest feeler gage (0.0015") across the whole table.? ?I had to do a gross file across the table to take care of the gross high spots and then I could focus on the few remaining high spot.? ?Luckily, my table was sunken and the edges were high.? I think it is easier to maintain some sort of planarity with the pivot of the motor/blade assembly.??
I also took my blade guides off and cleaned them up (along with the bearings).? ?Luckily, all of my bearings are fine.? I had to take a file after the blade guide castings to get them to fit correctly for adjustment of the bandsaw.? ?When doing the gross blade guide alignment, it is very important to get the blade support bearings reasonably matched.? ?This is a lot easier if you file the guides so they move in a smooth manner.
I tried the wood technique and gave up after a while.? ?I think wood is fine to get you in the ball park, but one needs to cut steel if they want to get close.??
At the end, adjusting the vise jaws to be perpendicular with the blade took me the longest.? ?I am going to put a stop on the static jaw vise so I can easily adjust the vise jaw in the future.? ?It is hard not to overshoot if you are using a small brass hammer to help you align.? ?A threaded rod would be so much better.? ?I ended up cutting a 1 1/2" steel bar and measuring the thickness uniformity of 6 points on sample bar edge.? ?I think I am hitting nominal +/-0.002" per inch diameter on the coupons.
Now, I want to install a bunch of brushes to keep the blade and wheels clean, make the vise jaw stop, make the vise bolt? and install then a hydraulic down feed.
I have to get out in the shop and clean up my mess.
Thanks again folks.? I have a ton of reading to do with Rick's and John's material.
Dave
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Re: My mods - blade brush wheel / blade brushes / pulley brushes / chip pan
You¡¯re welcome, Dave. I think you will like the brushes. They really do keep the saw and blade clean. You got a fantastic deal at $20! Enjoy.
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Re: My mods - blade brush wheel / blade brushes / pulley brushes / chip pan
Thanks so much for the part links!? ? I really like all of the brushes and the magnet is perfect for this application.? ?Your saw is *incredibly* clean!? Very nice.? ?
I just bought my first saw, a used one, for $20 (built in 1983, I believe).? ?It is much rougher looking than your saw, but I got it cutting really true tonight. I will blatantly copy your blade brush and? wheel brush ideas.? I may use a hard felt adhered to the little vertical table in place of your two plastic brushes.
Very clean design and excellent work.? Thanks for sharing!
Dave
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
Thanks guys so much for the help.? ?I pretty much followed the Wilton manual for alignment of both the vertical (N-S) and horizontal (E-W) alignments.? ??
I also took after the table with a new bastard file.? ?The table was actually pretty far out of flat - I think it was well over 0.006".? ?After filing, I got it within my smallest feeler gage (0.0015") across the whole table.? ?I had to do a gross file across the table to take care of the gross high spots and then I could focus on the few remaining high spot.? ?Luckily, my table was sunken and the edges were high.? I think it is easier to maintain some sort of planarity with the pivot of the motor/blade assembly.??
I also took my blade guides off and cleaned them up (along with the bearings).? ?Luckily, all of my bearings are fine.? I had to take a file after the blade guide castings to get them to fit correctly for adjustment of the bandsaw.? ?When doing the gross blade guide alignment, it is very important to get the blade support bearings reasonably matched.? ?This is a lot easier if you file the guides so they move in a smooth manner.
I tried the wood technique and gave up after a while.? ?I think wood is fine to get you in the ball park, but one needs to cut steel if they want to get close.??
At the end, adjusting the vise jaws to be perpendicular with the blade took me the longest.? ?I am going to put a stop on the static jaw vise so I can easily adjust the vise jaw in the future.? ?It is hard not to overshoot if you are using a small brass hammer to help you align.? ?A threaded rod would be so much better.? ?I ended up cutting a 1 1/2" steel bar and measuring the thickness uniformity of 6 points on sample bar edge.? ?I think I am hitting nominal +/-0.002" per inch diameter on the coupons.
Now, I want to install a bunch of brushes to keep the blade and wheels clean, make the vise jaw stop, make the vise bolt? and install then a hydraulic down feed.
I have to get out in the shop and clean up my mess.
Thanks again folks.? I have a ton of reading to do with Rick's and John's material.
Dave
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Re: My mods - blade brush wheel / blade brushes / pulley brushes / chip pan
Hi,
The pillow block bearing is from Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MYCB0A6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The "shaft" is actually a 1/4" x 1" shoulder screw:
https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/shoulder-screws/alloy-steel-shoulder-screws-9/shoulder-diameter~1-4/shoulder-length~1/
The wire brushes are from Ebay:
Magnets are also from Amazon:
The white spacer is what I turned on my mini lathe.? Hope this helps.
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
Ah yes, I did enjoy this meeting of the minds with John. It is always great when people view a problem from different vantage points.?
As is common with these bandsaws, I too have added a few mods and attachments:?
Rick
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
For adjusting the blade guides?here's some thoughts to bear in mind: 1. I mentioned in the 'Buying a 4x6' guide that to cut both horizontally?(your East/West?) and vertically (N/S?) square at the same time, the workpiece needs to be parallel to the pivot shaft
in both Plan View and Elevation
AND the sawblade needs to be square to the pivot shaft in both Plan View and Elevation. When Rick Sparber and I were trying to come to agreement over adjustment procedures, it came out that the above wasn't the easiest way to look at it. Now I think it is easier to separate the two types of squareness (since they can be adjusted separately): Horizontal squareness is achieved when the back of workpiece is parallel to the pivot shaft and the run of the sawblade is square to the pivot shaft when looking in Plan View (looking down from above the vice table) Vertical squareness is achieved when the bottom of the workpiece is parallel to the pivot shaft and the body of the sawblade?is square to the pivot shaft in Front Elevation? (looking across the vice table from the front)
2. You can always adjust any saw to cut horizontally square without difficulty, as it's only affected by the angles between the work, the sawblade and the pivot-shaft, the 'geometry' of the bits if you like.? However vertical squareness is more of a problem, because, although the saw can be adjusted to move geometrically as though it was going to cut vertically square, the blade can be thrown off line by what happens when
the teeth start to move, think of them as 'dynamic' effects.? Horizontal squareness is only about the geometry Vertical squareness is about both geometry and dynamics
3.Adjusting Horizontal squareness: a) Back of the workpiece parallel to the pivot shaft = Fixed vice jaw indicated parallel to the pivot shaft per the article as you noted b) To get the run of the?sawblade square to the pivot shaft, you shift the joint between the sawframe?and the pivot arm (LH rear of the sawframe?when it's horizontal) in the right direction until the test piece?you cut is parallel (per test on pg4&5 of the buying article)
4.Adjusting vertical squareness (You need to do them in the following order) a) Preparation:?
Adjust the side-guideroller-to-blade clearance with the eccentric on the bearing outside of the loop of the blade, until there is 0.000" to 0.001" clearance, i.e.?touching but not overtight, since this is what keeps the blade upright when cutting (The squareness of the blade body to the vice table changes when the roller-to-blade gap changes so its got to be adjusted first)? b) Blade body square to the pivot in front elevation =? blade body pretty much square to the vice table.? You judge and adjust this per the method on pg 14 in the Wilton 4x6 manual which is available in the files section as m _3130.pdf? ?( /g/4x6bandsaw/files/m_3130.pdf). This is probably the best manual of any 4x6 and you should print yourself a copy.? b) Bottom of workpiece parallel to the pivot shaft = vice table parallel to the pivot shaft.? As you've found out this is built into the saw at manufacture and can warp out of flat as the base casting ages.? That you've had to file yours, probably means it will not be parallel to the pivot, you'll find out just how much out it is by doing the test in the article. If it's?out by more than a few thou it is really annoying. If you've adjusted the blade back?square as in a) above then any vice table out of parallel will show up as taper in the test piece.? It can be temporarily fixed by packing up the low side of the infeed table with a strip of steel shim+double-sided sticky tape, until the test piece comes out parallel. A permanent fix?for this is probably the most difficult thing you can do to a 4x6.
5) Dynamic effects (the blade not cutting vertically down even when the geometry is correct) is mostly due to one of two things a) Too much weight on the teeth when cutting soft materials (like wood, plastic and aluminium) and the gullets of the teeth fill up which then tips the blade to one side?or the other (fix by holding up the sawframe?by hand so it doesn't cut so quick, or increasing the tension in the counterbalance spring (handle on LH front). b) blade worn or damaged on one side so it doesn't cut straight any more. (new blade is only fix)? ?
Rick Sparber explains it a little differently from me and you should look up his article????.? Between the 2 explanations?you should be able to figure it out. Rgds - jv??
Howdy,? Sorry for the late reply.
I bought this band saw for $20 so I'm tickled that it just works.? ?I finally got out in the shop today and started to look a little more at the vise area.? ?The vise and table has surface corrosion and is basically pretty grubby.? ?I took the jaws off, and tried to flatten the machined vise area.? I don't have a milling machine, so I grabbed the flattest object I own and started to sand the exposed metal area.? I initially measured the exposed metal area around the vise and it was not the flattest.? ?I was measuring over 0.005" by using feeler gages and a parallel.? ?I sanded the area until I said I have enough and it's much better, but still not perfect.
I also messed around with the blade guides so that the bearings that limit the up/down movement of the blades were *just* in contact with the blade.? Then I cut my 1" sample and now I have the following:
I just read the article listed above, "Buying a used 4x6 Bandsaw",? and find it very helpful.? ?I actually have a new file so I filed the vise area until it is within 0.002" of flat.? the vises work so much better when that area is flat.? I had a bow in on my saw and I think I took over .003" off with the file on the entire area- which took a bit.? I sanded the area and it polished up OK, but this was more for my ability to determine when the low spots were being filed out.
I'm right in the process for adjusting the blade guides.? ?I'm getting close, but I would like to have a little better.? ?I have hit 0.000 inch delta on the East West dimension and the North-South Dimension, but not at the same time.? ?I'm fiddling with this more.
The article had a great idea for indicating the vise from the pivot bar.? ?That is so much better than trying to run a square from the blade to the vise.
I have been reading about all of the modifications people are doing with this saw.? ?My vise has virtually no play in it now that the table is reasonably flat so I won't have to put a bushing in the pivot point.? I would like to do the following mods:
*? I will probably add a stop when the vise is perpendicular to the blade.
*? I will also turn some bolts for the vises which have knurled handles so I won't have to use a wrench to move and secure them.???
*? I will add a screw to the movable vise jaw so I can cut short pieces
*? I am looking into adding a hydraulic down feed cylinder.? ?I don't think I will make the cylinder.? I want one that will work for years.? I think you can purchase a cylinder from Parker for $50-$60 that is fully tested and works.
*? I have a three shelf metal cart with descent casters.? I was thinking of mounting the saw to the top of the cart and using the other two shelves for my metal storage.
I have seen where people add an extension on the front of their saw so they can clamp small pieces from the front.? ?I don't have a milling machine.? Can someone add a picture of how they made this shelf?
I'll write more later this week after I've had some more time to fiddle with the settings on the blade guides.? ?I am thinking it will be challenging to get the 0.002" E-W and N-S differences.
Thanks for your help.
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Re: My mods - blade brush wheel / blade brushes / pulley brushes / chip pan
I like it!?
Can you tell me where you got the parts for this?? ?I am particularly interested in the pillow block bearing and the round wire brush.? ?I assume you turned the shaft on your lathe.
Also, where did you source the rare earth magnets.? ?I am thinking of using these for a couple of projects.? This is a great application for rare earth magnets.
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
Howdy,? Sorry for the late reply.
I bought this band saw for $20 so I'm tickled that it just works.? ?I finally got out in the shop today and started to look a little more at the vise area.? ?The vise and table has surface corrosion and is basically pretty grubby.? ?I took the jaws off, and tried to flatten the machined vise area.? I don't have a milling machine, so I grabbed the flattest object I own and started to sand the exposed metal area.? I initially measured the exposed metal area around the vise and it was not the flattest.? ?I was measuring over 0.005" by using feeler gages and a parallel.? ?I sanded the area until I said I have enough and it's much better, but still not perfect.
I also messed around with the blade guides so that the bearings that limit the up/down movement of the blades were *just* in contact with the blade.? Then I cut my 1" sample and now I have the following:
I just read the article listed above, "Buying a used 4x6 Bandsaw",? and find it very helpful.? ?I actually have a new file so I filed the vise area until it is within 0.002" of flat.? the vises work so much better when that area is flat.? I had a bow in on my saw and I think I took over .003" off with the file on the entire area- which took a bit.? I sanded the area and it polished up OK, but this was more for my ability to determine when the low spots were being filed out.
I'm right in the process for adjusting the blade guides.? ?I'm getting close, but I would like to have a little better.? ?I have hit 0.000 inch delta on the East West dimension and the North-South Dimension, but not at the same time.? ?I'm fiddling with this more.
The article had a great idea for indicating the vise from the pivot bar.? ?That is so much better than trying to run a square from the blade to the vise.
I have been reading about all of the modifications people are doing with this saw.? ?My vise has virtually no play in it now that the table is reasonably flat so I won't have to put a bushing in the pivot point.? I would like to do the following mods:
*? I will probably add a stop when the vise is perpendicular to the blade.
*? I will also turn some bolts for the vises which have knurled handles so I won't have to use a wrench to move and secure them.???
*? I will add a screw to the movable vise jaw so I can cut short pieces
*? I am looking into adding a hydraulic down feed cylinder.? ?I don't think I will make the cylinder.? I want one that will work for years.? I think you can purchase a cylinder from Parker for $50-$60 that is fully tested and works.
*? I have a three shelf metal cart with descent casters.? I was thinking of mounting the saw to the top of the cart and using the other two shelves for my metal storage.
I have seen where people add an extension on the front of their saw so they can clamp small pieces from the front.? ?I don't have a milling machine.? Can someone add a picture of how they made this shelf?
I'll write more later this week after I've had some more time to fiddle with the settings on the blade guides.? ?I am thinking it will be challenging to get the 0.002" E-W and N-S differences.
Thanks for your help.
|
Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Thanks for the information John, I'll take another look at the
arm and try a packing shim to see how that works for me. Probably
be next week before I get a chance to look at it properly.
Thanks again and have a wonderful day all.
Steve
On 23/09/20 4:45 pm, John Vreede wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Arghhh..... Wrong way round!.
Sorry Steve I got up this morning early to write the previous post
before going on my regular Wednesday walking group and marked up
the sawframe casting to photograph it for you and got it
backwards.
I will be putting the setscrews in at the bottom of the casting
(where the circle with the dot is in that photo), where you should need to
put the grub-screws in at the top, not me.
I moved the bottom of my guide arm out <1mm, I suggest you
trial adding about 1.5mm of shim between the arm and the casting
at the back of the slot as shown in the photo attached.
If that squares up your table then you can drill & tap
Sorry for the confusion - jv
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Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
Hi, Ralph:
I guess you prefer the design as below photos, the table clamped by vise, simple and fast.right??
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Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Arghhh..... Wrong way round!.
Sorry Steve I got up this morning early to write the previous post before going on my regular Wednesday walking group and marked up the sawframe casting to photograph it for you and got it backwards.
I will be putting the setscrews in at the bottom of the casting (where the circle with the dot is in that photo), where you should need to put the grub-screws in at the top, not me.
I moved the bottom of my guide arm out <1mm, I suggest you trial adding about 1.5mm of shim between the arm and the casting at the back of the slot as shown in the photo attached.
If that squares up your table then you can drill & tap
Sorry for the confusion - jv
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Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Hi Steve
You're right there is only one plane you can move the table with a screw into the back of the slot - and thats the right plane!
Its kinda counterintuitive and I was really unsure that it would work before I tried it
In the picture below it shows where I'm putting the two socket headed M5 grubscrews, one 12mm on either side of the middle line of the guide arm.? I chose the 2 screws over one bigger central one because I can bury them both below the face of the casting and so they don't foul the clamping screws, though the casting is thick enough for one short M8 grubscrew. Find the centreline by eye with a 6" rule against the clamping screw hole and scribe a line on the casting.? Don't be more than 12mm from that with M5 screws or they might not be in the 32mm slot.? I think 1/2" from the centre with 3/16" setscrews will be too wide and there's a chance they''ll come out in the wall of the slot
I've drawn a circle with a dot in the centre for where you would put a single grubscrew, since your table tilts the other way from mine.
Just be careful how tight you make the clamping screws, as, with a set screw pushing the guide am away from the back of the slot,? the clamping pressure is bending the cast iron arm.? No problem with a hand tightened clamping screw but since I never adjust the lower guide and want maximum rigidity, I replaced my clamp screws with M12 and they can snap the cast iron easily.? Now I know it works I think I'll? put in a few extra screws on either side of where the clamp bolts sit.
Same goes for the upper guide arm where I will put in a series of setscrews down each side close enough to take the clamping load without damaging the guide arm. set the position of the guide arm to travel parallel to the blade back with the most distant screw, then clamp lightly and screw all the others into contact to form a flat plane with the tips of the screws.? I'll use dome points, not cone or sharp pointed screws - jv
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Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Here is how I move the upper blade guide forward and back:??
Rick
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Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Great pictures John, THANK YOU!
Ralph
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 7:52 AM steve nicholson < steve@...> wrote:
Hi John,
Would you post a photo of where you put the set screw to adjust
the guide arm slot please? My guide arms fit nice and snug in the
slot in the casting, it can only be pushed out away from the
casting and I don't think this will help. I understand what you
are saying about fitting a screw to move the alignment, I'm just
not sure if I'm imaging the plane you are moving the guide arm on
your machine.
Thanks.
Steve
On 22/09/20 2:19 pm, John Vreede wrote:
Hi Steve
My 1987 UC115
has a similar problem to your saw, except I have to pack up
the other side of the table!
I've always
thought "Ah .. I just need to face off the top of the lower
guide assembly in the lathe, I'll get around to it one day"?
In response to
your question, today was that day.?
I put the?whole
guide assembly into the 3jaw chuck of the lathe, holding by
its sliding arm, and all of a sudden got a rude shock.? The
top of the guide assembly WAS square to the arm of the guide
assembly and the lathe tool was?taking it evenly off both
sides of the blade (a very slight (<0.3mm) tip down at the
back). but certainly?not the 1-2deg tip down on the LHS that
my table shows.??
I've always
known the?guide assemblies on my machine don't move parallel
to the back of the blade (you can see that when you raise and
lower them, that the gap to the back of the blade changes) but
since I have the lower one locked in place permanently I
thought the bottom one didn't matter.? Unfortunately it does!
It's the guide
slot in the casting that is not machined parallel to the?blade
run, or not square to the gearbox output shaft (or both).
Oh Darn, That
means the table will still not be squareto the blade on my new
milled-square guide assemblies (see pic). How do I compensate
for that??
An 'Oh Shit'
moment is being had!.- jv
P.S. It's?now a
couple hours later.
I had the idea
of using a set screw through the back of the casting into the
top or bottom of the guide arm slot, to force the blade to run
parallel to the blade back.? Might that cure the table slant
too??
IT DOES! (see
pic)
I had to move
the bottom?of the guide arm out to get my table square?
Since yours is
the opposite way to mine, Steve, if this fix really does work
you should need to?pack out the top of the arm? Try
it with a bit of shim between the arm and the top edge of the
casting to see that it works first.? Then use, say, 2 M5
setscrews, one either side, or, if the bottom of your guide
arm is square, then maybe one M8 in the middle of the top of
the guide slot.
Let us know if
it works - jv
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:55
AM steve nicholson < steve@...>
wrote:
The
recent messages on vertical cutting tables reminded me I need
to fix
mine to be able to use it properly. Hopefully the attached
photos come
through with this message.
The top of the blade guide holder that the table screws to is
not square
to the blade, therefore the table isn't square and is
frustrating to
use. I have to muck round packing one side to get it square
and can't be
bothered using it.
My main question: is this a manufacturing fault or is there
something
out of adjustment that I'm missing.
I know my options to solve this, if it is a manufacturing
fault, are:
- making a table with the correct packer welded in place.
- making a table frame that locks into the saw work clamp.
I just wanted to check before I attack the project that the
problem has
other solutions I hadn't considered.
Thanks and have a wonderful day.
Steve
|
Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Hi John,
Would you post a photo of where you put the set screw to adjust
the guide arm slot please? My guide arms fit nice and snug in the
slot in the casting, it can only be pushed out away from the
casting and I don't think this will help. I understand what you
are saying about fitting a screw to move the alignment, I'm just
not sure if I'm imaging the plane you are moving the guide arm on
your machine.
Thanks.
Steve
On 22/09/20 2:19 pm, John Vreede wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Steve
My 1987 UC115
has a similar problem to your saw, except I have to pack up
the other side of the table!
I've always
thought "Ah .. I just need to face off the top of the lower
guide assembly in the lathe, I'll get around to it one day"?
In response to
your question, today was that day.?
I put the?whole
guide assembly into the 3jaw chuck of the lathe, holding by
its sliding arm, and all of a sudden got a rude shock.? The
top of the guide assembly WAS square to the arm of the guide
assembly and the lathe tool was?taking it evenly off both
sides of the blade (a very slight (<0.3mm) tip down at the
back). but certainly?not the 1-2deg tip down on the LHS that
my table shows.??
I've always
known the?guide assemblies on my machine don't move parallel
to the back of the blade (you can see that when you raise and
lower them, that the gap to the back of the blade changes) but
since I have the lower one locked in place permanently I
thought the bottom one didn't matter.? Unfortunately it does!
It's the guide
slot in the casting that is not machined parallel to the?blade
run, or not square to the gearbox output shaft (or both).
Oh Darn, That
means the table will still not be squareto the blade on my new
milled-square guide assemblies (see pic). How do I compensate
for that??
An 'Oh Shit'
moment is being had!.- jv
P.S. It's?now a
couple hours later.
I had the idea
of using a set screw through the back of the casting into the
top or bottom of the guide arm slot, to force the blade to run
parallel to the blade back.? Might that cure the table slant
too??
IT DOES! (see
pic)
I had to move
the bottom?of the guide arm out to get my table square?
Since yours is
the opposite way to mine, Steve, if this fix really does work
you should need to?pack out the top of the arm? Try
it with a bit of shim between the arm and the top edge of the
casting to see that it works first.? Then use, say, 2 M5
setscrews, one either side, or, if the bottom of your guide
arm is square, then maybe one M8 in the middle of the top of
the guide slot.
Let us know if
it works - jv
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:55
AM steve nicholson < steve@...>
wrote:
The
recent messages on vertical cutting tables reminded me I need
to fix
mine to be able to use it properly. Hopefully the attached
photos come
through with this message.
The top of the blade guide holder that the table screws to is
not square
to the blade, therefore the table isn't square and is
frustrating to
use. I have to muck round packing one side to get it square
and can't be
bothered using it.
My main question: is this a manufacturing fault or is there
something
out of adjustment that I'm missing.
I know my options to solve this, if it is a manufacturing
fault, are:
- making a table with the correct packer welded in place.
- making a table frame that locks into the saw work clamp.
I just wanted to check before I attack the project that the
problem has
other solutions I hadn't considered.
Thanks and have a wonderful day.
Steve
|
Re: how to square vertical cutting table?
Hi Steve My 1987 UC115 has a similar problem to your saw, except I have to pack up the other side of the table! I've always thought "Ah .. I just need to face off the top of the lower guide assembly in the lathe, I'll get around to it one day"? In response to your question, today was that day.? I put the?whole guide assembly into the 3jaw chuck of the lathe, holding by its sliding arm, and all of a sudden got a rude shock.? The top of the guide assembly WAS square to the arm of the guide assembly and the lathe tool was?taking it evenly off both sides of the blade (a very slight (<0.3mm) tip down at the back). but certainly?not the 1-2deg tip down on the LHS that my table shows.?? I've always known the?guide assemblies on my machine don't move parallel to the back of the blade (you can see that when you raise and lower them, that the gap to the back of the blade changes) but since I have the lower one locked in place permanently I thought the bottom one didn't matter.? Unfortunately it does! It's the guide slot in the casting that is not machined parallel to the?blade run, or not square to the gearbox output shaft (or both). Oh Darn, That means the table will still not be squareto the blade on my new milled-square guide assemblies (see pic). How do I compensate for that?? An 'Oh Shit' moment is being had!.- jv
P.S. It's?now a couple hours later. I had the idea of using a set screw through the back of the casting into the top or bottom of the guide arm slot, to force the blade to run parallel to the blade back.? Might that cure the table slant too?? IT DOES! (see pic) I had to move the bottom?of the guide arm out to get my table square? Since yours is the opposite way to mine, Steve, if this fix really does work you should need to?pack out the top of the arm? Try it with a bit of shim between the arm and the top edge of the casting to see that it works first.? Then use, say, 2 M5 setscrews, one either side, or, if the bottom of your guide arm is square, then maybe one M8 in the middle of the top of the guide slot. Let us know if it works - jv
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:55 AM steve nicholson < steve@...> wrote: The recent messages on vertical cutting tables reminded me I need to fix
mine to be able to use it properly. Hopefully the attached photos come
through with this message.
The top of the blade guide holder that the table screws to is not square
to the blade, therefore the table isn't square and is frustrating to
use. I have to muck round packing one side to get it square and can't be
bothered using it.
My main question: is this a manufacturing fault or is there something
out of adjustment that I'm missing.
I know my options to solve this, if it is a manufacturing fault, are:
- making a table with the correct packer welded in place.
- making a table frame that locks into the saw work clamp.
I just wanted to check before I attack the project that the problem has
other solutions I hadn't considered.
Thanks and have a wonderful day.
Steve
|
Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
Hi Henry I love that the table is now put in from?the front, so there is no slot on the front side of the blade, like my old saws, but the HUGE gap at the sides of the blade is actually dangerous, as the offcuts of the small pieces I generally cut on the vertical table disappear?down that hole and try to drag my fingers with it! I use a piece of 5/8" thick melamine coated MDF as the table screwed to the lower guide assembly in place of the OEM table and the saw slot is cut in with the blade itself, so has minimum clearance at front and sides.? The MDF doesn't last that well before it starts to wear around the blade but its WAY better than OEM and lasts me 10yrs before I'm forced to make a new one (maybe next time I'll use some of that phenolic coated plywood in the picture?) I like it wide enough to the LHS of the blade to clamp a guide to and long enough in front and behind the blade?to support my work (rule in picture for scale - I like a bigger table than the old OEM). I don't like cutting steel sheetmetal?on the vertical table (unless its a curve, when I have no choice), because I've ripped the teeth out of the blade too often, so use at sub-table mounted on top of the vice jaws, where I can cut through at a good angle (see pic)? Likewise a mitre guide slot in the table is not much use to me, as the sub-table is easy to get any angle clamped right and sawn. Rgds - jv ?
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 6:44 PM Henry < rongfu@...> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
As the subject says, we are small bandsaw maker from Taiwan and just wondering what will be the best size and purpose for all of you to use the vertical cutting table? Below is the current design for our product RF-128, it is not so perfect for normal users like you guys, some of customer even says it is too soft, just a thin plate looks like funny thing...
Size is about 24x24cm, a black color of thin plate install on the roller guide
Support unit is underneath
A bit curved if slight push it or have any small loading
We would like to know what is your ideal dimension for this table?? and what tasks you often to do with this vertical table? Share with us your comments here!! Appreciate~~
#vertical table
#RF-128 Vertical cutting
#Vertical cutting table
#4x6 vertical cutting
|
Bill in OKC too
John Vreede
Henry