Re: Early CS-80 - Pitch Shift Issue
Here is a link to the missing CS-80 bulletins.??
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Re: Early CS-80 - Pitch Shift Issue
Great info!
My CS80, serial number 1449, had this problem. I had it serviced by my tech in 2006 who had a hard time finding the cause. He didn't have access to SB 096 so he had to find out himself, and he did.
I bought this CS80 from a professional musician and I never understood how he could even have played on this instrument. This bug made it impossible to play on it, imo.
My other CS80, SN 1589, seems to have had the same problem according the SB, but I guess someone has taken action in the past.
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
That’s perfect, I can call you then. I am in Houston
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On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:34 AM, Stan Valiulis <scvaliulis@...> wrote:
? Alex,? How about tomorrow afternoon about 1:00???? What city are you in?? ? Stanley Valiulis Co-Founder ?Operations 815-608-0884
<image001.png> ? ? ? ? ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Alexander488 <alexander488@...>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, April 24, 2020 at 9:21 AM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [yamahaCS80fans] CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels? Hi Stan, that would be great! I am in Central Time. Thanks
? Maybe I can hook up my CS80 to my Kronos and we can talk through this on the phone this weekend.? What time zone are you in??? Hi Stan, I was the one asking about the midi. Here is my original plea for help: I recently had a Kenton Midi Kit installed into a CS80. It looks like something was not done correctly during the installation, since the mod and pitch wheels are not working. I have tried 2 different controllers; notes are being triggered, aftertouch and program changes work, but the wheels do not... It does not matter if the toggle switch is up or down.. I have tried to reset the midi mode, which returns everything to the default settings, but no success. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Also I am not sure if the red button is working properly. I spoke with Harry at Kenton, and when you enter midi program mode (by hitting the button 2 times in succession) there should be no sound being triggered in the CS80 when you play different keys on the controller, to assign different midi settings. But when I am in the midi program mode, the CS is still playing notes from the controller. The transpose mode does seem to be working. Harry was not 100% sure there should be no sound, since he did not have a CS80 in the shop. Can anyone tell me if I should here notes triggered from the CS while its in midi program mode?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Best regards,
Alex I appreciate hearing all this information. ?My CS-80 needs some work? Mike Borish does it for me.? Both the square and sign wave are on all the time on the top channel.? I also have a voice that is intermittent.? I can still enjoy playing it.? I was going to check my MIDI for a member and lost his name.? If you are still in the group I can check it this weekend.?? I live in Chicago.? Take Care all.? Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help? Thank a lot for the replies so far,
?
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Alex,? How about tomorrow afternoon about 1:00???? What city are you in?? ? Stanley Valiulis Co-Founder ?Operations 815-608-0884
? ? ? ? ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Alexander488 <alexander488@...>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, April 24, 2020 at 9:21 AM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [yamahaCS80fans] CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels? Hi Stan, that would be great! I am in Central Time.
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? Maybe I can hook up my CS80 to my Kronos and we can talk through this on the phone this weekend.? What time zone are you in??? Hi Stan, I was the one asking about the midi. Here is my original plea for help: I recently had a Kenton Midi Kit installed into a CS80. It looks like something was not done correctly during the installation, since the mod and pitch wheels are not working. I have tried 2 different controllers; notes are being triggered, aftertouch and program changes work, but the wheels do not... It does not matter if the toggle switch is up or down.. I have tried to reset the midi mode, which returns everything to the default settings, but no success. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Also I am not sure if the red button is working properly. I spoke with Harry at Kenton, and when you enter midi program mode (by hitting the button 2 times in succession) there should be no sound being triggered in the CS80 when you play different keys on the controller, to assign different midi settings. But when I am in the midi program mode, the CS is still playing notes from the controller. The transpose mode does seem to be working. Harry was not 100% sure there should be no sound, since he did not have a CS80 in the shop. Can anyone tell me if I should here notes triggered from the CS while its in midi program mode?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Best regards,
Alex I appreciate hearing all this information. ?My CS-80 needs some work? Mike Borish does it for me.? Both the square and sign wave are on all the time on the top channel.? I also have a voice that is intermittent.? I can still enjoy playing it.? I was going to check my MIDI for a member and lost his name.? If you are still in the group I can check it this weekend.?? I live in Chicago.? Take Care all.? Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help? Thank a lot for the replies so far,
?
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hi Stan, that would be great! I am in Central Time.
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Hi Alex, ? Maybe I can hook up my CS80 to my Kronos and we can talk through this on the phone this weekend.? What time zone are you in??? ? Stanley Valiulis? Co-Founder ?Operations 815-608-0884
<image001.png> ? ? ? ? ? Hi Stan, I was the one asking about the midi. Here is my original plea for help: I recently had a Kenton Midi Kit installed into a CS80. It looks like something was not done correctly during the installation, since the mod and pitch wheels are not working. I have tried 2 different controllers; notes are being triggered, aftertouch and program changes work, but the wheels do not... It does not matter if the toggle switch is up or down.. I have tried to reset the midi mode, which returns everything to the default settings, but no success. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Also I am not sure if the red button is working properly. I spoke with Harry at Kenton, and when you enter midi program mode (by hitting the button 2 times in succession) there should be no sound being triggered in the CS80 when you play different keys on the controller, to assign different midi settings. But when I am in the midi program mode, the CS is still playing notes from the controller. The transpose mode does seem to be working. Harry was not 100% sure there should be no sound, since he did not have a CS80 in the shop. Can anyone tell me if I should here notes triggered from the CS while its in midi program mode?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Best regards,
Alex
? I appreciate hearing all this information. ?My CS-80 needs some work? Mike Borish does it for me.? Both the square and sign wave are on all the time on the top channel.? I also have a voice that is intermittent.? I can still enjoy playing it.? I was going to check my MIDI for a member and lost his name.? If you are still in the group I can check it this weekend.?? I live in Chicago.? Take Care all.? Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help? Thank a lot for the replies so far,
?
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hello
Why don't you take a look at the service manual ?
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Thanks Scott, I'll go out and get me an FC7 pedal today and report back! Best, M
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Thanks Scott, I'll go out and get me an FC7 pedal today and report back! Best, M
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Re: my afternoon with dave eggar
Just came across this lil' tidbit while searching the forum on boring information about expression pedals a good eleven years after the fact and damn, glad you shared that! Good reminder that the music-making itself is why we all strived (and maybe paid top dollar) to get our hands on one of these beasts. Best, Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
There really isn't a good way to test that circuit other than an expression pedal, but a standard Yamaha FC7 pedal will work if you have one, that is, it doesn't have to be the original light-activated pedal,?
Don't use a Roland pedal however.
Hi everyone,
?
Thanks Scott, for the suggestion! I don't have the expression pedal I'm afraid, but when moving the volume know both L+R volumes change similarly and the offset remains the same. Is there any other way of testing whether or not the issue could be with the expression pedal circuit, beyond operating it?
?
Best, Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hi everyone,
?
Thanks Scott, for the suggestion! I don't have the expression pedal I'm afraid, but when moving the volume know both L+R volumes change similarly and the offset remains the same. Is there any other way of testing whether or not the issue could be with the expression pedal circuit, beyond operating it?
?
Best, Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hi Alex, ? Maybe I can hook up my CS80 to my Kronos and we can talk through this on the phone this weekend.? What time zone are you in?? ? Stanley Valiulis Co-Founder ?Operations 815-608-0884
? ? ? ? ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Alexander488 <alexander488@...>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:58 PM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [yamahaCS80fans] CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels? Hi Stan, I was the one asking about the midi. Here is my original plea for help: I recently had a Kenton Midi Kit installed into a CS80. It looks like something was not done correctly during the installation, since the mod and pitch wheels are not working. I have tried 2 different controllers; notes are being triggered, aftertouch and program changes work, but the wheels do not... It does not matter if the toggle switch is up or down.. I have tried to reset the midi mode, which returns everything to the default settings, but no success. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Also I am not sure if the red button is working properly. I spoke with Harry at Kenton, and when you enter midi program mode (by hitting the button 2 times in succession) there should be no sound being triggered in the CS80 when you play different keys on the controller, to assign different midi settings. But when I am in the midi program mode, the CS is still playing notes from the controller. The transpose mode does seem to be working. Harry was not 100% sure there should be no sound, since he did not have a CS80 in the shop. Can anyone tell me if I should here notes triggered from the CS while its in midi program mode?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Best regards,
Alex
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Show quoted text
? I appreciate hearing all this information. ?My CS-80 needs some work? Mike Borish does it for me.? Both the square and sign wave are on all the time on the top channel.? I also have a voice that is intermittent.? I can still enjoy playing it.? I was going to check my MIDI for a member and lost his name.? If you are still in the group I can check it this weekend.?? I live in Chicago.? Take Care all.? Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help? Thank a lot for the replies so far,
?
|
Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hi Stan, I was the one asking about the midi. Here is my original plea for help:
I recently had a Kenton Midi Kit installed into a CS80. It looks like something was not done correctly during the installation, since the mod and pitch wheels are not working. I have tried 2 different controllers; notes are being triggered, aftertouch and program changes work, but the wheels do not... It does not matter if the toggle switch is up or down.. I have tried to reset the midi mode, which returns everything to the default settings, but no success. Has anyone else had a similar experience?Also I am not sure if the red button is working properly. I spoke with Harry at Kenton, and when you enter midi program mode (by hitting the button 2 times in succession) there should be no sound being triggered in the CS80 when you play different keys on the controller, to assign different midi settings. But when I am in the midi program mode, the CS is still playing notes from the controller. The transpose mode does seem to be working. Harry was not 100% sure there should be no sound, since he did not have a CS80 in the shop. Can anyone tell me if I should here notes triggered from the CS while its in midi program mode?Any help would be greatly appreciated!Best regards,Alex
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Hi Everyone, I appreciate hearing all this information. ?My CS-80 needs some work? Mike Borish does it for me.? Both the square and sign wave are on all the time on the top channel.? I also have a voice that is intermittent.? I can still enjoy playing it.? ? I was going to check my MIDI for a member and lost his name.? If you are still in the group I can check it this weekend.?? ? I live in Chicago.? Take Care all.? ? ? ? ? Stanley Valiulis? Co-Founder ?Operations 815-608-0884
<image001.png> ? ? ? ? ? Hello everyone, ? Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help? ? Thank a lot for the replies so far, Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
If you want to try a couple of diagnostics...
Does the relative offset between channels stay the same when rotating the volume knob? Does the relative offset between channels stay the same when operating the?expression pedal?
These are two separate systems. Check if the volume for both channels moves up and down together with either system. If not, you probably found which system is the problem.?
If they both work as expected and the offset between channels remains constant when moving the volume knob or the pedal, the problem is upstream of the expression pedal circuit.
Hello everyone,
?
Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help?
?
Thank a lot for the replies so far,
Mathias
|
Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hi Everyone, I appreciate hearing all this information. ?My CS-80 needs some work? Mike Borish does it for me.? Both the square and sign wave are on all the time on the top channel.? I also have a voice that is intermittent.? I can still enjoy playing it. ? I was going to check my MIDI for a member and lost his name.? If you are still in the group I can check it this weekend.? ? I live in Chicago.? Take Care all. ? ? ? ? Stanley Valiulis Co-Founder ?Operations 815-608-0884
? ? ? ? ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Mathias Tjonn <mathiastjoenn@...>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:19 AM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [yamahaCS80fans] CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels? Hello everyone, ? Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help? ? Thank a lot for the replies so far, Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hello everyone,
?
Thank you for the input! Joachim Milson, I have a voltmeter and can do basic diagnostics, but as reboot paris points out, I might be better to leave it to a professional. Though my tech lives in England and I'm in Norway (and I'm not dealing with international shipping again for such a small issue), so would likely have to do the work myself with his guidance. Will think about whether or not I'm the right guy for the job and if not, how I can prepare/train to get better.
Mert, thank you for the response. I think I did get your reply, about trying to toggle the high/low output switch on the back? I tried that, no success so far. Would using deoxit perhaps be of help?
?
Thank a lot for the replies so far,
Mathias
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Re: Early CS-80 - Pitch Shift Issue
Great stuff Scott! ? Ground loops can be a huge problem in any analog circuits and especially bad with mixed analog and digital! ?You could easily earn a PhD learning the details of this subject.
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Hello all. At David R.'s suggestion, I thought to join in the group to discuss all things CS-80. ----------------------------- Please find attached a paper I pulled together to discuss the problem with some early serial numbers of the CS-80 that had a problem with pitch shifting when holding low notes and then playing high notes..
The issue was discussed in Yamaha Service Bulletin 096, but the modification I propose addresses the root cause which the mods in SB 096, while worthy, do not. The CS-80 Yamaha Service Bulletins, including 096, can be found at the Borish Electronics web page under his Articles tab. Thanks - Scott in Ohio
<Yamaha CS-80 - Pitch Shift Paper.pdf>
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Early CS-80 - Pitch Shift Issue
Hello all. At David R.'s suggestion, I thought to join in the group to discuss all things CS-80.
-----------------------------
Please find attached a paper I pulled together to discuss the problem with some early serial numbers of the CS-80 that had a problem with pitch shifting when holding low notes and then playing high notes..
The issue was discussed in Yamaha Service Bulletin 096, but the modification I propose addresses the root cause which the mods in SB 096, while worthy, do not.
The CS-80 Yamaha Service Bulletins, including 096, can be found at the Borish Electronics web page under his Articles tab.
Thanks -
Scott in Ohio
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
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[Edited Message Follows]
Greetings good people,
Hope this message finds everyone well. I've gotten my CS-80 back from servicing recently, beyond excited. She's never functioned properly as long as I've owned her so I can't be certain, but the stereo L/R output seems unusually imbalanced (there's a 8-12dB difference between the two). My tech is occupied at the moment and not currently available for a follow-up, so I thought I would check with the community here. For those of you who have fully working CS-80s, what's does the proper/normal stereo balance look and sound like?
Best,
Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hello
You should wait your tech it's certainly a problem on a board ,the pra maybe .
If you don't know the synth never open it .
Just blend the 2 signals .
As i remember it's a "Fake" stéréo.
Hope it helps .
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Hello again,
?
Than you slammah2006 and Mert for your input! The volume discrepancy between L and R channels is the same with or without the chorus engaged, approx 20dB according to my DAW channel meter (attached screen grab below). Tried toggling the high/low output selector
switch as well + swapping cables and cleaning the outputs with deoxit. No change as yet.
Further suggestions if anyone has ideas, would be greatly appreciated!
Mathias
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Re: CS-80: What's the normal stereo output balance between L-R channels?
Hi Mathias,
Since the chorus does not have an effect on your issue, chances are that the source of the problem is after the chorus.
If you look at the overall diagram, you'll notice that the audio signal leaving the chorus goes through two circuits, both located on the PRA board, before reaching the output.
The first is dedicated to the EXP effect and the second to the preamplifier. There are 5 variable resistors located there VR11, VR12, VR6, VR7, and VR8. You could check them.
Have a look at page 29 of the adjustment procedure guide.
Joachim
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Mathias Tjonn