Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
I've gotten pretty good "snappy" results when using values of 0/0/1/0/0 (DADSR) on any of the five EGs when routed to filter cutoff. Part of the trick is in which filter mode you use. In my experience, 4-pole LP with resonance at max (self-oscillation) used for the main tone of the "percussion", cutoff at 0, and EG modulation assigned to cutoff (nothing else) dialed in to taste gets the best results. The above example is for a classic "lazer blip" percussion sound.?
It ain't as snappy as say my Voyager RME, Minibrute or System-100m EGs, but it still "pops" in the right way. And yes I spelled laser with a Z :)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 5, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Tony Cappellini cappy2112@... [xpantastic] < xpantastic@...> wrote:
?
>>
Bringing this back to the original topic, I too find the Xpander factory patches pretty "tame",
This is an old topic, but I'm goign to revive it. Someone posted the audio files of VERY percussive Xpander patches, a few years ago. These are amazingly percussive & snappy, given the X's software envelopes. You'd think that is was another synth. Sadly, they didn't post the patches along with the audio files. These would have been great to learn from.
Hmm, if I could only write a tool that would convert audio file to an Xpander patch ;-)
?
Definitely agree Tony.? As someone who has always enjoyed and preferred to design my own sounds, I've definitely had my moments where I come across a killer patch that inspired me to immediately produce a song around it, let alone create my own patch variations. Not to mention some times using a preset that doesn't necessarily "sound" great, but is doing something "functionally" within the sound that you can backwards engineer to figure out how to use it in your own context.
I can also say from experience that the (unexciting) results of what we hear in some products is simply a matter of it being rushed, lack of product management, or simply no budget to hire good programmers.. None of which reflects on the product, how someone uses the product, or whether or not someone can be "inspired by a preset"...?
Music is not a "business", the "business" side of music is the result of artistic expression through music, which last I checked, unless you're just churning out jingles for $$ (which is totally fine if that's your thing), music comes from feeling, creativity, and the desire to express an idea.? Sometimes that desire comes from experimenting deep in the editing pages of a synth, twiddling knobs randomly (or intentionally) on a vintage analog synth, and other times, it comes from dialing across a really cool preset that inspires you to want to create music.?
Bringing this back to the original topic, I too find the Xpander factory patches pretty "tame", and have always programmed my Xpander specific to what I use it for (warm or buzzy bass, arp, and seq type patches). For me the Xpander has always been about the multi-mode filters, especially the 1-pole LP, BP, and Notch modes. That combined with the voice panning, and the unique but subtle timbral changes that occur when you stack a few (not all) voices through Unison mode, is what makes the Xpander what it is.?
-o
?
>>
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same sounds ?Tthere is a lot to be said from hearing other people's patches. I get ideas that never occurred to me, fr0m hearing someone else's patches. I've had people send me their patch banks from their Xpanders just after buying or before selling their Xpander/M12. I found many refreshing ideas listening to other's patches.
I think it's fair enough to say that we all get locked into narrow ways of thinking (patching). I tend to always use the LPF in the Xpander patches, wasting the 14 other filter modes. When I had heard so many interesting patches that didn't use the LPF, it help to xpand my thinking a little.
In all fairness, I think many synth designs in the 80s and 90s were rushed to market, for various reasons. The people chosen to create the factory patches probably didn't have enough time to get deep inside the synht, in order to create more interesting factory patches.
That doesn't seem to be the case in the last 10-20 years though. (I haven't bought anything newer than a Nord Modular G2, and that was in the early 2000's).
There definitely are some snoozer factory patches out there. Beware!
?
Best factory patches or not,- at the
end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?
Methinks, Tony is more or less right !
There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the
functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the
box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory
patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global
MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a
user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.
I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a
Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and
sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation
SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !
And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came
when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from
factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering,
edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used
?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same
sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !
"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same
BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".
In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.
Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking
the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part
of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some
"signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a
synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and
arrangement.
P.
Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@...
[xpantastic]:
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off
the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR
Korg M1
Korg Prophecy / Z1
Roland JD-990
Roland D-50
Roland D-70
Roland XV-5080
Roland V-Synth
Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for
ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have
had some incredible preset design work over the past
decade or so.
?
>>
?The
Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of
the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given
the power of the synths.?
Isn't
that always the case? Are there any synths
that you've owned that have very good factory
patches?
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
>>
Bringing this back to the original topic, I too find the Xpander factory patches pretty "tame",
This is an old topic, but I'm goign to revive it. Someone posted the audio files of VERY percussive Xpander patches, a few years ago. These are amazingly percussive & snappy, given the X's software envelopes. You'd think that is was another synth. Sadly, they didn't post the patches along with the audio files. These would have been great to learn from.
Hmm, if I could only write a tool that would convert audio file to an Xpander patch ;-)
?
Definitely agree Tony.? As someone who has always enjoyed and preferred to design my own sounds, I've definitely had my moments where I come across a killer patch that inspired me to immediately produce a song around it, let alone create my own patch variations. Not to mention some times using a preset that doesn't necessarily "sound" great, but is doing something "functionally" within the sound that you can backwards engineer to figure out how to use it in your own context.
I can also say from experience that the (unexciting) results of what we hear in some products is simply a matter of it being rushed, lack of product management, or simply no budget to hire good programmers. None of which reflects on the product, how someone uses the product, or whether or not someone can be "inspired by a preset"...?
Music is not a "business", the "business" side of music is the result of artistic expression through music, which last I checked, unless you're just churning out jingles for $$ (which is totally fine if that's your thing), music comes from feeling, creativity, and the desire to express an idea.? Sometimes that desire comes from experimenting deep in the editing pages of a synth, twiddling knobs randomly (or intentionally) on a vintage analog synth, and other times, it comes from dialing across a really cool preset that inspires you to want to create music.?
Bringing this back to the original topic, I too find the Xpander factory patches pretty "tame", and have always programmed my Xpander specific to what I use it for (warm or buzzy bass, arp, and seq type patches). For me the Xpander has always been about the multi-mode filters, especially the 1-pole LP, BP, and Notch modes. That combined with the voice panning, and the unique but subtle timbral changes that occur when you stack a few (not all) voices through Unison mode, is what makes the Xpander what it is.?
-o
?
>>
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same sounds ?Tthere is a lot to be said from hearing other people's patches. I get ideas that never occurred to me, fr0m hearing someone else's patches. I've had people send me their patch banks from their Xpanders just after buying or before selling their Xpander/M12. I found many refreshing ideas listening to other's patches.
I think it's fair enough to say that we all get locked into narrow ways of thinking (patching). I tend to always use the LPF in the Xpander patches, wasting the 14 other filter modes. When I had heard so many interesting patches that didn't use the LPF, it help to xpand my thinking a little.
In all fairness, I think many synth designs in the 80s and 90s were rushed to market, for various reasons. The people chosen to create the factory patches probably didn't have enough time to get deep inside the synht, in order to create more interesting factory patches.
That doesn't seem to be the case in the last 10-20 years though. (I haven't bought anything newer than a Nord Modular G2, and that was in the early 2000's).
There definitely are some snoozer factory patches out there. Beware!
?
Best factory patches or not,- at the
end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?
Methinks, Tony is more or less right !
There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the
functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the
box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory
patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global
MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a
user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.
I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a
Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and
sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation
SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !
And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came
when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from
factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering,
edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used
?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same
sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !
"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same
BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".
In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.
Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking
the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part
of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some
"signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a
synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and
arrangement.
P.
Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@...
[xpantastic]:
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off
the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR
Korg M1
Korg Prophecy / Z1
Roland JD-990
Roland D-50
Roland D-70
Roland XV-5080
Roland V-Synth
Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for
ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have
had some incredible preset design work over the past
decade or so.
?
>>
?The
Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of
the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given
the power of the synths.?
Isn't
that always the case? Are there any synths
that you've owned that have very good factory
patches?
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
Definitely agree Tony. ?As someone who has always enjoyed and preferred to design my own sounds, I've definitely had my moments where I come across a killer patch that inspired me to immediately produce a song around it, let alone create my own patch variations. Not to mention some times using a preset that doesn't necessarily "sound" great, but is doing something "functionally" within the sound that you can backwards engineer to figure out how to use it in your own context.
I can also say from experience that the (unexciting) results of what we hear in some products is simply a matter of it being rushed, lack of product management, or simply no budget to hire good programmers. None of which reflects on the product, how someone uses the product, or whether or not someone can be "inspired by a preset"...?
Music is not a "business", the "business" side of music is the result of artistic expression through music, which last I checked, unless you're just churning out jingles for $$ (which is totally fine if that's your thing), music comes from feeling, creativity, and the desire to express an idea.? Sometimes that desire comes from experimenting deep in the editing pages of a synth, twiddling knobs randomly (or intentionally) on a vintage analog synth, and other times, it comes from dialing across a really cool preset that inspires you to want to create music.?
Bringing this back to the original topic, I too find the Xpander factory patches pretty "tame", and have always programmed my Xpander specific to what I use it for (warm or buzzy bass, arp, and seq type patches). For me the Xpander has always been about the multi-mode filters, especially the 1-pole LP, BP, and Notch modes. That combined with the voice panning, and the unique but subtle timbral changes that occur when you stack a few (not all) voices through Unison mode, is what makes the Xpander what it is.?
-o
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:39 PM, Tony Cappellini cappy2112@... [xpantastic] < xpantastic@...> wrote:
?
>>
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same sounds ?Tthere is a lot to be said from hearing other people's patches. I get ideas that never occurred to me, fr0m hearing someone else's patches. I've had people send me their patch banks from their Xpanders just after buying or before selling their Xpander/M12. I found many refreshing ideas listening to other's patches.
I think it's fair enough to say that we all get locked into narrow ways of thinking (patching). I tend to always use the LPF in the Xpander patches, wasting the 14 other filter modes. When I had heard so many interesting patches that didn't use the LPF, it help to xpand my thinking a little.
In all fairness, I think many synth designs in the 80s and 90s were rushed to market, for various reasons. The people chosen to create the factory patches probably didn't have enough time to get deep inside the synht, in order to create more interesting factory patches.
That doesn't seem to be the case in the last 10-20 years though. (I haven't bought anything newer than a Nord Modular G2, and that was in the early 2000's).
There definitely are some snoozer factory patches out there. Beware!
?
Best factory patches or not,- at the
end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?
Methinks, Tony is more or less right !
There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the
functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the
box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory
patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global
MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a
user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.
I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a
Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and
sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation
SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !
And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came
when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from
factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering,
edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used
?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same
sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !
"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same
BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".
In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.
Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking
the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part
of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some
"signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a
synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and
arrangement.
P.
Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@...
[xpantastic]:
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off
the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR
Korg M1
Korg Prophecy / Z1
Roland JD-990
Roland D-50
Roland D-70
Roland XV-5080
Roland V-Synth
Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for
ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have
had some incredible preset design work over the past
decade or so.
?
>>
?The
Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of
the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given
the power of the synths.?
Isn't
that always the case? Are there any synths
that you've owned that have very good factory
patches?
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
>>
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same sounds ?Tthere is a lot to be said from hearing other people's patches. I get ideas that never occurred to me, fr0m hearing someone else's patches. I've had people send me their patch banks from their Xpanders just after buying or before selling their Xpander/M12. I found many refreshing ideas listening to other's patches.
I think it's fair enough to say that we all get locked into narrow ways of thinking (patching). I tend to always use the LPF in the Xpander patches, wasting the 14 other filter modes. When I had heard so many interesting patches that didn't use the LPF, it help to xpand my thinking a little.
In all fairness, I think many synth designs in the 80s and 90s were rushed to market, for various reasons. The people chosen to create the factory patches probably didn't have enough time to get deep inside the synht, in order to create more interesting factory patches.
That doesn't seem to be the case in the last 10-20 years though. (I haven't bought anything newer than a Nord Modular G2, and that was in the early 2000's).
There definitely are some snoozer factory patches out there. Beware!
?
Best factory patches or not,- at the
end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?
Methinks, Tony is more or less right !
There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the
functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the
box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory
patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global
MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a
user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.
I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a
Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and
sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation
SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !
And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came
when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from
factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering,
edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used
?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same
sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !
"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same
BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".
In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.
Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking
the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part
of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some
"signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a
synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and
arrangement.
P.
Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@...
[xpantastic]:
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off
the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR
Korg M1
Korg Prophecy / Z1
Roland JD-990
Roland D-50
Roland D-70
Roland XV-5080
Roland V-Synth
Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for
ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have
had some incredible preset design work over the past
decade or so.
?
>>
?The
Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of
the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given
the power of the synths.?
Isn't
that always the case? Are there any synths
that you've owned that have very good factory
patches?
|
|
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
? fantastic job taking a simple post sharing some thoughts about old synths that have some cool presets completely out of context....You win!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 4, 2019, at 8:17 PM, PeWe ha-pewe@... [xpantastic] < xpantastic@...> wrote:
?
Best factory patches or not,- at the
end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?
Methinks, Tony is more or less right !
There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the
functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the
box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory
patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global
MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a
user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.
I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a
Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and
sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation
SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !
And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came
when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from
factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering,
edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used
?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same
sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !
"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same
BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".
In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.
Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking
the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part
of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some
"signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a
synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and
arrangement.
P.
Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@...
[xpantastic]:
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off
the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR
Korg M1
Korg Prophecy / Z1
Roland JD-990
Roland D-50
Roland D-70
Roland XV-5080
Roland V-Synth
Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for
ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have
had some incredible preset design work over the past
decade or so.
?
>>
?The
Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of
the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given
the power of the synths.?
Isn't
that always the case? Are there any synths
that you've owned that have very good factory
patches?
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
Best factory patches or not,- at the
end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?
Methinks, Tony is more or less right !
There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the
functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the
box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory
patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global
MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a
user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.
I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a
Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and
sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation
SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !
And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came
when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from
factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering,
edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used
?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same
sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !
"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same
BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".
In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.
Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking
the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part
of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some
"signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a
synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and
arrangement.
P.
Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@...
[xpantastic]:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off
the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR
Korg M1
Korg Prophecy / Z1
Roland JD-990
Roland D-50
Roland D-70
Roland XV-5080
Roland V-Synth
Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for
ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have
had some incredible preset design work over the past
decade or so.
?
>>
?The
Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of
the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given
the power of the synths.?
Isn't
that always the case? Are there any synths
that you've owned that have very good factory
patches?
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Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
I think synth makers have taken preset design a lot more seriously in recent years (the virus patches are amazing) They understand the importance of how they help sell the synth. The great programmers of the classic synths came up in a different time, before the internet, before the ease of file sharing so Im sure the best patches are sitting buried in private studios all over the world.?
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On 5 Feb 2019, at 7:56 am, Omar Torres holografique@... [xpantastic] < xpantastic@...> wrote:
?
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR Korg M1 Korg Prophecy / Z1 Roland JD-990 Roland D-50 Roland D-70 Roland XV-5080 Roland V-Synth Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have had some incredible preset design work over the past decade or so.
?
>>
?The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.?Isn't that always the case? Are there any synths that you've owned that have very good factory patches?
?
Agreed. The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.
There really isn't much out there in terms of downloadable patches that I've seen, but I recently came across a site with five different custom banks and I loaded them all. Among those five hundred sounds or so, there were really only 3 or 4 really interesting patches that warranted saving. I guess the bottom line is that if you want decent patches for these machines, you have to program your own!
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Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:
Korg Wavestation AD/SR Korg M1 Korg Prophecy / Z1 Roland JD-990 Roland D-50 Roland D-70 Roland XV-5080 Roland V-Synth Kurzweil K2x00
Mind you, my list is based on a love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...
And god knows the countless software synths that have had some incredible preset design work over the past decade or so.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 4, 2019, at 2:53 PM, Tony Cappellini cappy2112@... [xpantastic] < xpantastic@...> wrote:
?
>>
?The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.?Isn't that always the case? Are there any synths that you've owned that have very good factory patches?
?
Agreed. The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.
There really isn't much out there in terms of downloadable patches that I've seen, but I recently came across a site with five different custom banks and I loaded them all. Among those five hundred sounds or so, there were really only 3 or 4 really interesting patches that warranted saving. I guess the bottom line is that if you want decent patches for these machines, you have to program your own!
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
>>
?The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.?Isn't that always the case? Are there any synths that you've owned that have very good factory patches?
?
Agreed. The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.
There really isn't much out there in terms of downloadable patches that I've seen, but I recently came across a site with five different custom banks and I loaded them all. Among those five hundred sounds or so, there were really only 3 or 4 really interesting patches that warranted saving. I guess the bottom line is that if you want decent patches for these machines, you have to program your own!
|
Re: loading patches via sysex - Heeellllppppp!
I've been checking out the patches on this group, as a contribution I uploaded the patches that I found on my Matrix 12 in the files area.
Regarding importing and exporting patches I first had problems, and it looks like I'm not the only one, so here some additional infos on the import / export procedure: - Exporting / Importing all patches using SysEx Librarian works fine
- After looking at all the patches around I would like to have the 100 favorite patches in my Matrix 12, so I made a favorites folder on my Mac and copied all the single patches here.
- Next step: import these patches, which first does not work
- Trying to export one patch with SysEx Librarian --> "Record One" myself and import it back: does not work.
- Using SysEx Librarian you have to select "Record Many" when exporting a patch. You'll get 2 messages instead of one. If you play these messages, it works.
- Now you'd like to import this patch to some specific number:
- you'll have to define this number while exporting: SEND --> DESTINATION PATCH
- This is going to be the patch number when importing.
What I learned: - some patch-banks of other users contain single patches, but I'm not able to import them, as they contain only 1 message instead of the required 2 messages
- procedure to create your favorite patch-collection:
- import full patch-banks
- then export favorite patches and define the future patch-number during export by setting DESTINATION PATCH.
- In SysEx Librarian always "Record Many" to import the patches, so you'll get the 2 messages that are needed.
- When you are happy with your collection, import all the prepared single patches
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New file uploaded to xpantastic
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the xpantastic
group.
File : /Patch Banks/gwaldisp.syx.zip
Uploaded by : gwaldispuehl <geri77@...>
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
Regards,
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Hello Karl !
I received your email days ago and replied.
Again,- after some days I got the mailer demon "mail delivery failed ..., permanent error".
Unfortunately youre the only one I cannot send emails and it happens since Yahoo changed something.
In the attachement youll find the note according to mail delivery error.
Maybe youre able to contact your provider and fix it.
I keep it short here cause I dont think its the place discussing our private stuff.
So, take it as some emergency notification via Xpantastic cause I dont see any other way contacting you a.t.m..
thx
PeWe
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Hello David, ????????I've helped quite a few people fix their Xpanders/ matrix 12 over the years ( look in the history of this forum). I have never seen the Poly S/H caps fail.? The caps used ?in the?American made Matrix 12/ Xpanders are military grade and poly caps tend to repair themselves anyway. This is good news because you can't get audio poly caps anymore. ( when analog equalizers?ceased being manufactured the relevant companies stopped making them)? I agree with other posters that the CMOS 4051 chips used to demux the control voltages to the voice circuits can fail. These would be? U706? and U707 for voice?one on the xpander.? A relatively easy fix because all the chips are socketed on these synths. Which brings up another point. Over time chips can come loose in their sockets. If it were me I would ( carefully ) pull all the chips for the voice one circuit and?push them back?in ( re-seat? them) this is also an easy fix.??You can use a chip puller or a small straight edge screwdriver can also be used. You may also try replacing C749 and C747. These are 2.2 uF???(note the decimal point) electrolytic capacitors. While not directly related to the tuning of the synth the are the most common failure by far on this particular synth.
Best Luck Karl Schmeer?
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 5:22 PM, "David Cumming david.cumming@... [xpantastic]" wrote:
?
Hi,
My Xpander reliably passes all tuning functions but voice 1 goes out of tune (flat) within a few minutes afterwards while the rest stay in tune. I've tried swapping voice chips but don't know where to go from there. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance, David
|
PS. Please, you need to login, because non-members are not allowed to post messages!
Cheers, Tiitu
|
klosmon, I've overlooked your advice, but I fully aggre from my experience with XPander Voice board.
|
I 'd change not only all capacitors, but the whole XPander and
move to another neighborhood - just to make sure.
Change all capacitors, is not a good advice to a laymen. It can
do more much more damage than the defect currently observed.
My advice would be to put more effort into locating the defect
first, than just start some tedious solder work. IMHO the
capacitor swapping thing is very fashy but often to no avail.
Capacitors may break indeed, but no as often as indicated in these
nice forums here. In fact, in the way over hundred of 80ies synths
I had to repair, the capacitors only rarely had a problem.
I've seen lots of broken CMOS (40XX- and 45XX-type), OP-Amps
(TL-type) and even resistors and ceramic capacitors (I've never
read in a thread to change resistors or ceramic capacitors, but,
yes the tend to break, in particular in California made Synths ;-)
I also note that electrolytics of that era are of much better
quality as the material sold today.? Why would you swap a
electronic element, known to last more than 50 years, for a new
part calculated be clever engineers to last ten years at most.
There are weak points in the Xpander VoiceBoard though:
the CMOS ICs and
the Styroflex S/H-charge capacitors.
Those components weren't build so well those days and tend to
break quite often, that is, to become short, open or some? state
of random switching in between (funny).
Soldering of Styroflex caps is difficult and requires some
experience. The must not get hot! There is no need to use
Styroflex type again. You may use modern cap types here.
With you tunig problem, I'd first try to locate the tuning
circuit in the schematics? (or ask s.o. here) and then
change/swap? only t the parts for that functional instance. I'd
start swapping the CMOS, then checking the S/H caps there, then
the OP-Amps involved, then the electrolytics there.?
Soldering of Styroflex caps is difficult and requires some
experience. The must not get hot! There is no need to use
Styroflex type again. You may use modern cap types here.
GOOD LUCK
|
I would just change all of them for that channel.?
James
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On Nov 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, David Cumming david.cumming@... [xpantastic] < xpantastic@...> wrote:
?
Yeah I guess so. My soldering skills could stretch to replacing a few capacitors but I’m not exactly sure how to decide which.
I use a multimeter to find ones near the CEM 3374 that don’t hold charge compared to ones on a working voice board??
?
Sag from an electrolytic going out on that voice?
James
?
Hi,
My Xpander reliably passes all tuning functions but voice 1 goes out of tune (flat) within a few minutes afterwards while the rest stay in tune. I've tried swapping voice chips but don't know where to go from there. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance, David
|
I'd check the poly timing cap for that voice;
after that, there are 4051 CV demultiplexers associated with each
voice which should be checked. The CVs from those go to opamp
buffers across smoothing caps to ground -- all should be checked
out with a scope (comparing them to the signals from a working
voice).
sounds
like a cap problem... did you change op amp chips around
too?
Hi,
My Xpander reliably passes all tuning
functions but voice 1 goes out of tune (flat)
within a few minutes afterwards while the rest
stay in tune. I've tried swapping voice chips
but don't know where to go from there. Any
ideas?
Thanks in advance, David
|
|
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
|
sounds like a cap problem...? did you change op amp chips around too?
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From: xpantastic@... on behalf of David Cumming david.cumming@... [xpantastic]
Sent: 29 November 2018 12:01 AM
To: xpantastic@...
Subject: [xpantastic] Xpander tuning issue
?
?
Hi,
My Xpander reliably passes all tuning functions but voice 1 goes out of tune (flat) within a few minutes afterwards while the rest stay in tune. I've tried swapping voice chips but don't know where to go from there. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance, David
|
Mondovermona