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Definitely agree Tony.? As someone who has always enjoyed and preferred to design my own sounds, I've definitely had my moments where I come across a killer patch that inspired me to immediately produce a song around it, let alone create my own patch variations. Not to mention some times using a preset that doesn't necessarily "sound" great, but is doing something "functionally" within the sound that you can backwards engineer to figure out how to use it in your own context.

I can also say from experience that the (unexciting) results of what we hear in some products is simply a matter of it being rushed, lack of product management, or simply no budget to hire good programmers. None of which reflects on the product, how someone uses the product, or whether or not someone can be "inspired by a preset"...?

Music is not a "business", the "business" side of music is the result of artistic expression through music, which last I checked, unless you're just churning out jingles for $$ (which is totally fine if that's your thing), music comes from feeling, creativity, and the desire to express an idea.?

Sometimes that desire comes from experimenting deep in the editing pages of a synth, twiddling knobs randomly (or intentionally) on a vintage analog synth, and other times, it comes from dialing across a really cool preset that inspires you to want to create music.?

Bringing this back to the original topic, I too find the Xpander factory patches pretty "tame", and have always programmed my Xpander specific to what I use it for (warm or buzzy bass, arp, and seq type patches). For me the Xpander has always been about the multi-mode filters, especially the 1-pole LP, BP, and Notch modes. That combined with the voice panning, and the unique but subtle timbral changes that occur when you stack a few (not all) voices through Unison mode, is what makes the Xpander what it is.?

-o

On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:39 PM, Tony Cappellini cappy2112@... [xpantastic] <xpantastic@...> wrote:

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>> Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same sounds ?

Tthere is a lot to be said from hearing other people's patches. I get ideas that never occurred to me, fr0m hearing someone else's patches.

I've had people send me their patch banks from their Xpanders just after buying or before selling their Xpander/M12.

I found many refreshing ideas listening to other's patches.

I think it's fair enough to say that we all get locked into narrow ways of thinking (patching). I tend to always use the LPF in the Xpander patches, wasting the 14 other filter modes. When I had heard so many interesting patches that didn't use the LPF, it help to xpand my thinking a little.

In all fairness, I think many synth designs in the 80s and 90s were rushed to market, for various reasons. The people chosen to create the factory patches probably didn't have enough time to get deep inside the synht, in order to create more interesting factory patches.

That doesn't seem to be the case in the last 10-20 years though. (I haven't bought anything newer than a Nord Modular G2, and that was in the early 2000's).

There definitely are some snoozer factory patches out there. Beware!

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 5:16 PM PeWe ha-pewe@... [xpantastic] <xpantastic@...> wrote:

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Best factory patches or not,- at the end of the day,- all matter of taste, isn?t it ?

Methinks, Tony is more or less right !

There were the times, factory patches just only demo?ed the functionality of a machine and were not done for "usage out of the box".
You?ll recognize investigating in? p.ex. Xpander/ M12 factory patches which lack assignment of sustain pedal and other global MIDI controllers p.ex..
At that time, a manufacturer expected a customer buying a user-programmable machine will exactly do that,-
Programming the machine for whatever purpose in mind.

I?m sayin? even I own a Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 and a Kurzweil PC361,- which surpasses a Kurz K2x00 series feature- and sound-wise, except lack of sampling.
Now guess how many factory sounds I?ve ever used from Wavestation SR, M1Rex, D-550 or even the PC361 ...
Almost NONE !

And on my Oberheim Xpander, I never used any patch the way it came when I bought it new as 1st owner,- as also not the patches from factory volume #2 or the M12 factory stuff.
They were always some stuff being ideal for reverse engineering, edit to taste or create something new from,- but I never ever used ?em like they were.
Who wants everyone owning the same machine(s) using the same sounds ?
Is that creativity,- or does that make a hit ?
Nope !

"... love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches..." is the same BS to me like blues guitarists tell me "all comes from feelin?".

In music (business), nothing comes from love or feeling ...
It all comes from hard work and (resulting) knowledge.

Good music comes from good composition and arrangement, tweaking the sounds to fit the tune.
Never ever was a piece of gear or a sound the most important part of a commercial successful tune/song.
There?s some recognition value existing related to some "signature" sounds,- but that?s all.
The success of a composition/arrangement never depended on a synth?s patch,- vintage synth or not.
It?s all replacable,- except the idea, composition and arrangement.

P.


Am 04.02.2019 um 21:56 schrieb Omar Torres holografique@... [xpantastic]:

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Definitely NOT always the case. A few I can think of off the top of my head that had (some, not all) great patches:

Korg Wavestation AD/SR

Korg M1

Korg Prophecy / Z1

Roland JD-990

Roland D-50

Roland D-70

Roland XV-5080

Roland V-Synth

Kurzweil K2x00

Mind you, my list is based on a love for ethereal/pad/soundscape type patches. So YMMV...

And god knows the countless software synths that have had some incredible preset design work over the past decade or so.

-o

On Feb 4, 2019, at 2:53 PM, Tony Cappellini cappy2112@... [xpantastic] <xpantastic@...> wrote:

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>> ?The Xpander/M-12 factory patches have to be some of the worst ever and are pretty embarrassing given the power of the synths.?

Isn't that always the case? Are there any synths that you've owned that have very good factory patches?