|
Dave W1HKJ, All,
Running multiple instances of fldigi version 4.2.06.20 on Win 11
very successfully, however when an instance is run for a long
period of time I infrequently see some distortion creep in to the
WF on one (sometimes 2) instances. When this happens, decode
becomes degraded or stops only on the instance where I see the
pattern like trace below:
From a concurrent iteration, that same signal looks like this:
Obviously it is not the rig or the OS audio system. It has
happened for several versions back. It happens with fldigi using
many different modems. Frustrating, because I have never been at
the operating position when it does happen. It is always resolved
by exiting the iterations that show the problem and restarting
them. Everything seems to run fine for quite some time afterward.
1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Any clue what might be happening?
Thanks and 73,
--
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
|
I have only seen that once on Windows 11 Jack, but not when I was running multiple instances.? It occurred when the web browser was on line with media interface operating.? How many instances of fldigi and what other applications that might be using the audio stream?
David
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 7:35?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via <kd4iz= [email protected]> wrote:
Dave W1HKJ, All,
Running multiple instances of fldigi version 4.2.06.20 on Win 11
very successfully, however when an instance is run for a long
period of time I infrequently see some distortion creep in to the
WF on one (sometimes 2) instances. When this happens, decode
becomes degraded or stops only on the instance where I see the
pattern like trace below:
From a concurrent iteration, that same signal looks like this:
Obviously it is not the rig or the OS audio system. It has
happened for several versions back. It happens with fldigi using
many different modems. Frustrating, because I have never been at
the operating position when it does happen. It is always resolved
by exiting the iterations that show the problem and restarting
them. Everything seems to run fine for quite some time afterward.
1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Any clue what might be happening?
Thanks and 73,
--
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
|
The fuzzy phase spreading could be ionospheric "multipath". If you have a stable LO frequency reference (GPSDO) you can watch WWV shift phase (frequency is the integral of phase shift w.r.t. time) shortly after sunrise and sunset as the path length changes. The maximum deviation I have measured was 2 hz (10 mhz WWV) but there are papers in the IRE Proceedings that show graphs of up to 5 hz short term peak deviation. As I had used 10 Mhz WWV as my frequency reference to set my AIL, IFR, Cushman, and Agilent test sets (1960's to 2013) it was a bit jarring to think about the potential "error" simply because I was too "cheap" to invest in a WWVB 60 khz receiver. . .
?
FSQ-2 is related to WSQ. On the WSQ page you will find the following note:
?
Don't even think about using the software on HF. There is far too much Doppler shift (except on ground wave) for the receiver to work reliably. Even 160m will be a challenge at night.
?
Interesting comment. . .? Seems so true about all of HF radio. Sometimes the ionosphere helps and sometimes it doesn't.
?
JIm/VEZ
|
Hi Dave,
Thanks for responding on this issue.
I am running 3 instances of fldigi but have seen it with 2 or one
in the past. I can't say that other audio apps were not running
before.
I was not running a web browser or other audio stream app when I
took those screen shots.?
Happened again last evening, this time all 3 instances showed the
same effect. Re started the instances today and all has been fine.
Just now went back to make sure the webcam and conferencing apps
and such were all unloaded. There should not be anything accessing
the audio subsystem other than fldigi.
In response to the suggestion by James, WA9VEZ - no it was
definitely not ionospheric multipath. All fldigi instances revert
to clear trace immediately on a restart of each.
As a former electronics guy (ETN/crypto) Coastie, I had to deal
with multipath and selective fade on fleet broadcast and ship to
shore HF circuits all the time. I am familiar with what happens
(including the doppler effect on timing) and love having the
specrum scope features on the new generations of SDR based rigs.
All amateurs should learn to use them properly and interpret thee
pattern. IMO there would be much less QRM-ing going on as a
result.
Thanks again and 73!
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 6:56 AM, Dave via groups.io
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have only seen that once on Windows 11 Jack, but not when
I was running multiple instances.? It occurred when the web
browser was on line with media interface operating.? How many
instances of fldigi and what other applications that might be
using the audio stream?
David
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at
7:35?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via
<kd4iz= [email protected]>
wrote:
Dave W1HKJ, All,
Running multiple instances of fldigi version 4.2.06.20 on
Win 11 very successfully, however when an instance is run
for a long period of time I infrequently see some
distortion creep in to the WF on one (sometimes 2)
instances. When this happens, decode becomes degraded or
stops only on the instance where I see the pattern like
trace below:
From a concurrent iteration, that same signal looks like
this:
Obviously it is not the rig or the OS audio system. It has
happened for several versions back. It happens with fldigi
using many different modems. Frustrating, because I have
never been at the operating position when it does happen.
It is always resolved by exiting the iterations that show
the problem and restarting them. Everything seems to run
fine for quite some time afterward.
1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Any clue what might be happening?
Thanks and 73,
--
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
|
The next time it happens please start recording the audio on the bad and good instance.? Two minutes of audio should be fine.? Send the audio files to me.
Thanks.
Dave
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 5:43?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via <kd4iz= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dave,
Thanks for responding on this issue.
I am running 3 instances of fldigi but have seen it with 2 or one
in the past. I can't say that other audio apps were not running
before.
I was not running a web browser or other audio stream app when I
took those screen shots.?
Happened again last evening, this time all 3 instances showed the
same effect. Re started the instances today and all has been fine.
Just now went back to make sure the webcam and conferencing apps
and such were all unloaded. There should not be anything accessing
the audio subsystem other than fldigi.
In response to the suggestion by James, WA9VEZ - no it was
definitely not ionospheric multipath. All fldigi instances revert
to clear trace immediately on a restart of each.
As a former electronics guy (ETN/crypto) Coastie, I had to deal
with multipath and selective fade on fleet broadcast and ship to
shore HF circuits all the time. I am familiar with what happens
(including the doppler effect on timing) and love having the
specrum scope features on the new generations of SDR based rigs.
All amateurs should learn to use them properly and interpret thee
pattern. IMO there would be much less QRM-ing going on as a
result.
Thanks again and 73!
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 6:56 AM, Dave via
wrote:
I have only seen that once on Windows 11 Jack, but not when
I was running multiple instances.? It occurred when the web
browser was on line with media interface operating.? How many
instances of fldigi and what other applications that might be
using the audio stream?
David
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at
7:35?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via
<kd4iz= [email protected]>
wrote:
Dave W1HKJ, All,
Running multiple instances of fldigi version 4.2.06.20 on
Win 11 very successfully, however when an instance is run
for a long period of time I infrequently see some
distortion creep in to the WF on one (sometimes 2)
instances. When this happens, decode becomes degraded or
stops only on the instance where I see the pattern like
trace below:
From a concurrent iteration, that same signal looks like
this:
Obviously it is not the rig or the OS audio system. It has
happened for several versions back. It happens with fldigi
using many different modems. Frustrating, because I have
never been at the operating position when it does happen.
It is always resolved by exiting the iterations that show
the problem and restarting them. Everything seems to run
fine for quite some time afterward.
1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Any clue what might be happening?
Thanks and 73,
--
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
|
Will do! Thanks Dave.
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 7:49 PM, Dave via groups.io
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The next time it happens please start recording the audio
on the bad and good instance.? Two minutes of audio should be
fine.? Send the audio files to me.
Thanks.
Dave
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 5:43?PM
Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via <kd4iz= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Dave,
Thanks for responding on this issue.
I am running 3 instances of fldigi but have seen it with 2
or one in the past. I can't say that other audio apps were
not running before.
I was not running a web browser or other audio stream app
when I took those screen shots.?
Happened again last evening, this time all 3 instances
showed the same effect. Re started the instances today and
all has been fine.
Just now went back to make sure the webcam and
conferencing apps and such were all unloaded. There should
not be anything accessing the audio subsystem other than
fldigi.
In response to the suggestion by James, WA9VEZ - no it was
definitely not ionospheric multipath. All fldigi instances
revert to clear trace immediately on a restart of each.
As a former electronics guy (ETN/crypto) Coastie, I had to
deal with multipath and selective fade on fleet broadcast
and ship to shore HF circuits all the time. I am familiar
with what happens (including the doppler effect on timing)
and love having the specrum scope features on the new
generations of SDR based rigs. All amateurs should learn
to use them properly and interpret thee pattern. IMO there
would be much less QRM-ing going on as a result.
Thanks again and 73!
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 6:56 AM, Dave via wrote:
I have only seen that once on Windows 11 Jack, but
not when I was running multiple instances.? It
occurred when the web browser was on line with media
interface operating.? How many instances of fldigi and
what other applications that might be using the audio
stream?
David
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025
at 7:35?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via <kd4iz= [email protected]>
wrote:
Dave W1HKJ, All,
Running multiple instances of fldigi version
4.2.06.20 on Win 11 very successfully, however
when an instance is run for a long period of time
I infrequently see some distortion creep in to the
WF on one (sometimes 2) instances. When this
happens, decode becomes degraded or stops only on
the instance where I see the pattern like trace
below:
From a concurrent iteration, that same signal
looks like this:
Obviously it is not the rig or the OS audio
system. It has happened for several versions back.
It happens with fldigi using many different
modems. Frustrating, because I have never been at
the operating position when it does happen. It is
always resolved by exiting the iterations that
show the problem and restarting them. Everything
seems to run fine for quite some time afterward.
1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Any clue what might be happening?
Thanks and 73,
--
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
|
Dave, All,
Bizarre reason but I may have found my issue. The problem was only
occurring with my IC-7300 and apparently only regularly apparent
when I was running 2 (or 3) instances of fldigi; the first
instance was running THOR22.
I tried numerous ways to discover a cause (many have been
described in this thread) and up until just after I got back from
Xenia, I thought I succeeded seeveral times only to be
disappointed after letting the 2 instance configuration run
longer.
Since my last report:
1. Set the sample rate (Soundcard,
Settings, Sample Rate, set to 22050 (value picked by SWAG) because
it is half the Native rate. This by itself, did not work but I
left it that way (by accident) to do the next step:
2. Ran the FSQ instance first, allowing that
instance to start flrig, then start the THOR22
instance that uses the same instance of flrig - this is
reverse of what I was doing when the problem was there and it
seems to be stable.
To rule out #1, I have reverted to Native sample rate and made
sure that the Windows USB Audio CODEC for both the TX and RX of
the IC-7300 was also set to 44100 (CD rate not DVD, DVD
sample rate is 48000). It seems to have stayed stable.
I will leave things running for a few more days to verify my
revised settings work..
Comment: I am not at all sure why this was happening to me when I
started the THOR22 instance first... and not when I start with
FSQ. I have been working with the AB8FJ FSQ 10.1415 MHz
experimental group where FSQ (at +1500 Hz) is being used to
"auto-assemble" a net group rather than using a net call up.
THOR22 (at +2000 Hz) is currently being used to move data - with flamp.
We also have a third chat channel using JS8Call at +1000 Hz. We
will likely move to THOR25 at +2000 Hz when the mode is
incorporated in a regular non-beta release of fldigi.
73
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 8:18 PM, Jack Spitznagel
(KD4IZ) wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Will do! Thanks Dave.
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 7:49 PM, Dave via
groups.io wrote:
The next time it happens please start recording the audio
on the bad and good instance.? Two minutes of audio should
be fine.? Send the audio files to me.
Thanks.
Dave
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at
5:43?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via
<kd4iz= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Dave,
Thanks for responding on this issue.
I am running 3 instances of fldigi but have seen it with
2 or one in the past. I can't say that other audio apps
were not running before.
I was not running a web browser or other audio stream
app when I took those screen shots.?
Happened again last evening, this time all 3 instances
showed the same effect. Re started the instances today
and all has been fine.
Just now went back to make sure the webcam and
conferencing apps and such were all unloaded. There
should not be anything accessing the audio subsystem
other than fldigi.
In response to the suggestion by James, WA9VEZ - no it
was definitely not ionospheric multipath. All fldigi
instances revert to clear trace immediately on a restart
of each.
As a former electronics guy (ETN/crypto) Coastie, I had
to deal with multipath and selective fade on fleet
broadcast and ship to shore HF circuits all the time. I
am familiar with what happens (including the doppler
effect on timing) and love having the specrum scope
features on the new generations of SDR based rigs. All
amateurs should learn to use them properly and interpret
thee pattern. IMO there would be much less QRM-ing going
on as a result.
Thanks again and 73!
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
On 2/3/2025 6:56 AM, Dave via wrote:
I have only seen that once on Windows 11 Jack,
but not when I was running multiple instances.? It
occurred when the web browser was on line with media
interface operating.? How many instances of fldigi
and what other applications that might be using the
audio stream?
David
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025
at 7:35?PM Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ) via <kd4iz= [email protected]>
wrote:
Dave W1HKJ, All,
Running multiple instances of fldigi version
4.2.06.20 on Win 11 very successfully, however
when an instance is run for a long period of
time I infrequently see some distortion creep in
to the WF on one (sometimes 2) instances. When
this happens, decode becomes degraded or stops
only on the instance where I see the pattern
like trace below:
From a concurrent iteration, that same signal
looks like this:
Obviously it is not the rig or the OS audio
system. It has happened for several versions
back. It happens with fldigi using many
different modems. Frustrating, because I have
never been at the operating position when it
does happen. It is always resolved by exiting
the iterations that show the problem and
restarting them. Everything seems to run fine
for quite some time afterward.
1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Any clue what might be happening?
Thanks and 73,
--
Jack Spitznagel
KD4IZ FM19oo
Parkton, MD
|
Jack Spitznagel (KD4IZ)
Dave
James Redding WA9VEZ