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Hi - I have two PSX Circuit Breakers, I’ll call them PSX1 and PSX2. I have an inner loop of track and an outer loop of track. If I have a loco running on a loop, and I intentionally short out the other loop, the locomotive will stop momentarily, then run for 3 or 4 seconds, then stop again, so on and so forth. I thought with the PSX circuit breakers, a short on one would have no effect whatsoever on the other??
So then I thought maybe my two loops were not totally electrically isolated, so I checked that by disconnecting one of the buses to one of the PSX’s, and I didn’t have any track power on that loop, so I know it was not electrically connected to the other loop.
I’m running a Digitrax system, N scale. I’ve installed the “digitrax” jumper on the PSX’s. My isolation sections between the two loops are 3/4 inch or more apart per the PSX directions.?
Any ideas or is the stop and go of the loco on the non shorted loop normal? ?Thanks.
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If you take two power wires from dcs to one psx and jumper it to the other psx ?via the terminal board on one end of the psxs and then send two wires from each psx (terminal board on other end) to each loop the two power sources should be independent
I isolate loops with plastic insulators evenly
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On Aug 6, 2021, at 5:20 PM, Robert Wilson <rwwilson112@...> wrote:
? Hi - I have two PSX Circuit Breakers, I’ll call them PSX1 and PSX2. I have an inner loop of track and an outer loop of track. If I have a loco running on a loop, and I intentionally short out the other loop, the locomotive will stop momentarily, then run for 3 or 4 seconds, then stop again, so on and so forth. I thought with the PSX circuit breakers, a short on one would have no effect whatsoever on the other??
So then I thought maybe my two loops were not totally electrically isolated, so I checked that by disconnecting one of the buses to one of the PSX’s, and I didn’t have any track power on that loop, so I know it was not electrically connected to the other loop.
I’m running a Digitrax system, N scale. I’ve installed the “digitrax” jumper on the PSX’s. My isolation sections between the two loops are 3/4 inch or more apart per the PSX directions.?
Any ideas or is the stop and go of the loco on the non shorted loop normal? ?Thanks.
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That’s how I have it wired. Is it possible that the shorted psx is momentarily cutting power to my booster as it tries to reset thereby causing the loco on the other one to intermittently stop and go?
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On Aug 7, 2021, at 8:38 AM, AD <bklyns_baseball_club@...> wrote:
? If you take two power wires from dcs to one psx and jumper it to the other psx ?via the terminal board on one end of the psxs and then send two wires from each psx (terminal board on other end) to each loop the two power sources should be independent
I isolate loops with plastic insulators evenly
Tony On Aug 6, 2021, at 5:20 PM, Robert Wilson <rwwilson112@...> wrote:
? Hi - I have two PSX Circuit Breakers, I’ll call them PSX1 and PSX2. I have an inner loop of track and an outer loop of track. If I have a loco running on a loop, and I intentionally short out the other loop, the locomotive will stop momentarily, then run for 3 or 4 seconds, then stop again, so on and so forth. I thought with the PSX circuit breakers, a short on one would have no effect whatsoever on the other??
So then I thought maybe my two loops were not totally electrically isolated, so I checked that by disconnecting one of the buses to one of the PSX’s, and I didn’t have any track power on that loop, so I know it was not electrically connected to the other loop.
I’m running a Digitrax system, N scale. I’ve installed the “digitrax” jumper on the PSX’s. My isolation sections between the two loops are 3/4 inch or more apart per the PSX directions.?
Any ideas or is the stop and go of the loco on the non shorted loop normal? ?Thanks.
|
Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
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Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
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On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
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On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote: Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
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On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Whoops, I see you said DCS210, not DCS210+.? The DCS210 manual is much better wrt op switches.? Manual:
But my question remains.
Blair
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On 2021-08-07 10:39, Blair wrote: What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify.? It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Sorry for the cross mailing.
Verify all of these points again:
DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective.? I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
Blair
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Show quoted text
On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote: It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally 5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
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On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?Sorry for the cross mailing.
Verify all of these points again:
DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective. I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Robert,
To just clarify what you mean by daisy chain. You have the power from the barrier strip in to the first PSX. Then on that same side of the PSX you run a wire to the next PSX? ?
You are not saying from the first PSX and then from the track side you wire to the 2nd PSX right?
Curious if you already have a barrier strip why yiu don’t go from that to both PSX’s straight away?
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Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that
feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally
5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>
> ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
>
> Verify all of these points again:
>
> DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
>
> One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
>
> Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
>
> Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input
to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
>
> If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective.? I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the
unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
>
> It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
>
> Blair
>
>
>
>> On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>> It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring
me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
>>
>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the
short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
>>>
>>> In case you don't have a manual handy,
>>>
>>> That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>> Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current
trip.
>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
>>>>> ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
>>>>> Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify.? It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
>>>>>
>>>>> DonV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted.? If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
That leads to a different diagnosis.? The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary.? However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+).? If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
Blair
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On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote: Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally 5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?Sorry for the cross mailing.
Verify all of these points again:
DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective. I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Correct. Power to first PSX, then on same side of PSX, I daisy chain to the next PSX input. I think I didn’t go directly from strip to both PSX’s because I was following the PSX diagram, but I realize now that was unnecessary. This is my first layout, so learning a lot.
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Show quoted text
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:48 AM, David Klemm <davidklemm7511@...> wrote:
?
Robert,
To just clarify what you mean by daisy chain. You have the power from the barrier strip in to the first PSX. Then on that same side of the PSX you run a wire to the next PSX? ?
You are not saying from the first PSX and then from the track side you wire to the 2nd PSX right?
Curious if you already have a barrier strip why yiu don’t go from that to both PSX’s straight away?
Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that
feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally
5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>
> ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
>
> Verify all of these points again:
>
> DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
>
> One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
>
> Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
>
> Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input
to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
>
> If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective.? I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the
unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
>
> It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
>
> Blair
>
>
>
>> On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>> It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring
me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
>>
>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the
short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
>>>
>>> In case you don't have a manual handy,
>>>
>>> That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>> Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current
trip.
>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
>>>>> ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
>>>>> Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify.? It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
>>>>>
>>>>> DonV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Thank you. Maybe the issue is that I slowed down the PSX’s so that they would play nice with the frog juicers because the juicers are slower than the PSX’s. So I might have to scrap the juicers and use tortoises to change frog polarity or switch to the Tam Valley circuit breakers which will play nice with the juicers.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted. If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
That leads to a different diagnosis. The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary. However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+). If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote:
Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally 5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
Verify all of these points again:
DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective. I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Ahh.? That does help point at the problem.? This is not unusual - it would be nice if the industry had standardized on a three or four step response time for these various levels of detection.? As I don't use frog juicers, I'll have to step aside, but perhaps others can help you still.
Blair
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2021-08-07 12:12, Robert Wilson wrote: Thank you. Maybe the issue is that I slowed down the PSX’s so that they would play nice with the frog juicers because the juicers are slower than the PSX’s. So I might have to scrap the juicers and use tortoises to change frog polarity or switch to the Tam Valley circuit breakers which will play nice with the juicers.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted. If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
That leads to a different diagnosis. The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary. However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+). If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote:
Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally 5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
Verify all of these points again:
DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective. I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
|
Robert,
Our club uses many, I mean May PSX ARs and frog juicers in our 5000 sq ft layout. They will place nice together.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thank you. Maybe the issue is that I slowed down the PSX’s so that they would play nice with the frog juicers because the juicers are slower than the PSX’s. So I might have to scrap the juicers and use tortoises to change frog polarity
or switch to the Tam Valley circuit breakers which will play nice with the juicers.
> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>
> ?Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted.? If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
>
> That leads to a different diagnosis.? The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary.? However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond
faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
>
> So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+).? If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
>
> Blair
>
>
>> On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote:
>> Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
>>
>> Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that
feeds the second bus for the other loop.
>>
>> However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally
5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
>>
>> I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
>>
>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
>>>
>>> Verify all of these points again:
>>>
>>> DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
>>>
>>> One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
>>>
>>> Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
>>>
>>> Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input
to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
>>>
>>> If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective.? I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of
the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
>>>
>>> It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>> It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring
me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>>> ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses
the short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
>>>>>
>>>>> In case you don't have a manual handy,
>>>>>
>>>>> That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current
trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
>>>>>>> Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify.? It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DonV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Well both the Tam Valley website and Tony’s Trains (DCC Specialties) indicate that the new PSX’s are much faster than the juicers. Tony’s Trains actually recommends not using them at all with PSX’s. Larry Puckett on his DCC Guy Youtube channel also discussed this problem between the two.?
I’ve reset the PSX’s to factory default, but the DCS still seems to be tripping faster. I’ve emailed DCC Specialties to see if they’ve encountered this issue. I’ll see what they say. I may need to just try a different circuit breaker.?
Thanks for everyone’s help!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 7, 2021, at 12:32 PM, David Klemm <davidklemm7511@...> wrote:
?
Robert,
Our club uses many, I mean May PSX ARs and frog juicers in our 5000 sq ft layout. They will place nice together.?
Thank you. Maybe the issue is that I slowed down the PSX’s so that they would play nice with the frog juicers because the juicers are slower than the PSX’s. So I might have to scrap the juicers and use tortoises to change frog polarity
or switch to the Tam Valley circuit breakers which will play nice with the juicers.
> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>
> ?Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted.? If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
>
> That leads to a different diagnosis.? The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary.? However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond
faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
>
> So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+).? If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
>
> Blair
>
>
>> On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote:
>> Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
>>
>> Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that
feeds the second bus for the other loop.
>>
>> However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally
5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
>>
>> I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
>>
>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
>>>
>>> Verify all of these points again:
>>>
>>> DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
>>>
>>> One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
>>>
>>> Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
>>>
>>> Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input
to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
>>>
>>> If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective.? I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of
the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
>>>
>>> It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>> It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring
me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>>> ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses
the short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
>>>>>
>>>>> In case you don't have a manual handy,
>>>>>
>>>>> That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current
trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
>>>>>>> Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify.? It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DonV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Robert,
I verified with our wiring guru. What we have done is max out the current setting on the PSX prior to the juicers. That corrected any issues. We did not go the route of the timing as the above worked.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Robert,
Our club uses many, I mean May PSX ARs and frog juicers in our 5000 sq ft layout. They will place nice together.?
Thank you. Maybe the issue is that I slowed down the PSX’s so that they would play nice with the frog juicers because the juicers are slower than the PSX’s. So I might have to scrap the juicers and use tortoises to change frog polarity
or switch to the Tam Valley circuit breakers which will play nice with the juicers.
> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>
> ?Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted.? If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
>
> That leads to a different diagnosis.? The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary.? However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond
faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
>
> So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+).? If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
>
> Blair
>
>
>> On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote:
>> Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
>>
>> Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that
feeds the second bus for the other loop.
>>
>> However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally
5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
>>
>> I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
>>
>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
>>>
>>> Verify all of these points again:
>>>
>>> DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
>>>
>>> One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
>>>
>>> Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
>>>
>>> Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input
to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
>>>
>>> If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective.? I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of
the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
>>>
>>> It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>> It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring
me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
>>>>> ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector?? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses
the short.? What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
>>>>>
>>>>> In case you don't have a manual handy,
>>>>>
>>>>> That manual is woefully quiet on option switches.? More info here:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current
trip.
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>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
>>>>>>> Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify.? It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
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Robert,
? This sounds more like two cabs on the same address ... Jim
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Just a thought
Have you tried unhooking all wires except the dcs to the PSX to the 2 loops.
Return all devices to their default settings. Do your shorting of a loop and test all devices voltages.
The beauty of the PSX is that it’s designed to trip faster than any DIGITRAX device.
If it didn’t it would be useless.
Tony
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On Aug 7, 2021, at 12:20 PM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
?Ahh. That does help point at the problem. This is not unusual - it would be nice if the industry had standardized on a three or four step response time for these various levels of detection. As I don't use frog juicers, I'll have to step aside, but perhaps others can help you still.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 12:12, Robert Wilson wrote:
Thank you. Maybe the issue is that I slowed down the PSX’s so that they would play nice with the frog juicers because the juicers are slower than the PSX’s. So I might have to scrap the juicers and use tortoises to change frog polarity or switch to the Tam Valley circuit breakers which will play nice with the juicers.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?Okay, you're on the right track, but I think you've misinterpreted. If the lights on the DCS don't go out when you short the track, you've not lost your DC input, the DCS is trying to protect itself from the short by shutting down it's outputs.
That leads to a different diagnosis. The DCS is, I believe, reacting faster than the PSX, and therefore extending the DCS response by changing op sw 18 is necessary. However, I don't know if it will be sufficient, as I don't know if the PSX can respond faster than the delayed DCS - but I would expect so, or we'd hear far more people having this problem.
So, try changing the state of Op Sw 18 (verify using the tech doc I linked to earlier for the DCS 210+). If that doesn't solve the problem, then either something else in your additional loads is interfering, or you've got to speed up the PSX units.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 11:40, Robert Wilson wrote:
Thank you for your help! So this is a brand new starter set, so it is the 210+. My wiring is as follows:
Track A from DCS to one terminal strip. Track B from DCS to different terminal strip. Then, off those two terminal strips, I run a black and red to one PSX, then that PSX feeds a bus run for one loop. I daisy chained the second PSX from the first, and that feeds the second bus for the other loop.
However, my two terminal strips connected to the DCS do have a few other wires connected. I have a pair going to the Tam Valley 5amp booster to power my DS64’s. I also have three pairs running off the terminal strips to three Hex Frog juicers. The Tam Vally 5amp booster has it’s own power supply but it hooks up to the DCS track power too per the directions. So basically my DCS track power is connected to the PSX’s, the Tam Valley accessory booster, and three Hex Juicers, all through the terminal strips.
I don’t think I can specifically isolate the voltage to the PS615 because it has the plug connector. I put my meter across the track A and B terminals on the DCS, and when there is a short, those terminals lose voltage.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?Sorry for the cross mailing.
Verify all of these points again:
DCS output is wired to the two PSX units, and nothing else. (i.e. no other track segment, etc.)
One PSX is wired to one portion of the layout, no load
Second PSX is wired to second portion of layout, no load
Short one of the two sections above, and verify that the PS615 is shutting down; you should lose all indications on the front panel of the DCS; your meter should also show a loss of input voltage (not sure how you measured it, as the power supply plug input to the DCS doesn't facilitate probing).
If so, the power supply is shutting down faster than either the short detection in the PSX, or in the DCS, and messing with the delay times of either will be ineffective. I think it's the PS615, and Digitrax should help you out; depending on the age of the unit, "help" could be just a recommendation for a new supply.
It would be ideal if you had an alternate PS615 supply available, (maybe a friend has one?), to demonstrate a different behavior with your PS615 removed from the test.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 10:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
It’s plugged in with the PS615 into the front port. The PSX’s are currently factory default at 3.81 amps. Should I change the trip setting to less amps on those? The DCS is factory default as well. I emailed Digitrax, they weren’t very helpful, deferring me to DCC Specialties, although they did say that I could try closing option switch 18 to put in a delay.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 10:39 AM, Blair <smithbr@...> wrote: ?What is the DC supply to the DCS210+? The original PS615 from Digitrax, plugged into the front barrel jack, or another supply wired via the 7-pin connector? Clearly, the PS is shutting down(overcurrent sensing) before the DCS210+, or the PSX, senses the short. What are the delay times set to for both the PSX units and the DCS?
In case you don't have a manual handy,
That manual is woefully quiet on option switches. More info here:
Though the descriptions are about as cryptic as one could want.
Blair
On 2021-08-07 9:52, Robert Wilson wrote:
Okay, that’s the issue. The volts to my command station dropped to zero when a track was shorted. It’s a Digitrax DCS210. 5amp capacity. How can I fix this issue? I’m new to the hobby. My instruction manual doesn’t mention in CV’s for adjusting current trip.
On Aug 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote: ?Sounds like the main DCC power source is cutting in and out… not the PSX breakers. What is it? And what is the ampere capacity? Is there an adjustable trip point?
Put an AC voltmeter on the main DCC source to verify. It should remain ON when a PSX breaker cuts out due to a short downstream.
DonV
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Jim Betz