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Track leading into a reversing loop

William Waithe All Messages By This Member #14236 Would a second track leading into a reversing loop interfere with the function of a reverser (e.g. Digitrax AR-1)? Is special wiring needed?
Tom O'Hara All Messages By This Member #14237 That sounds like a problem that needs a specific scenario. Then it could possibly be figured out, but I am not sure that there is a general answer. ...Tom toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:51?PM William Waithe <wwsd40@...> wrote: Would a second track leading into a reversing loop interfere with the function of a reverser (e.g. Digitrax AR-1)? Is special wiring needed?
D B All Messages By This Member #14239 If the “other” track is physically isolated from the rest of the layout, e.g., a siding, there shouldn’t be any issues. But I assume that is not the primary concern. If the “other” track is not physically isolated from the rest of the layout AND is not electrically isolated, then problems are likely, and certain, if the “other” track is electrically connected to the non-AR segment of track from which the subject AR segment is isolated. If the “other” track is not physically isolated from the rest of the layout but is electrically isolated, then you might not have issues, depending on operations. The key point is that the “other” track has become a part of the AR segment to which it is connected. This presents three limitations. First the “other” track cannot itself be an AR segment. It must be electrically isolated from any contiguous AR track. Second, there should be a non-AR length of track (separating the far or reverse end of the “other” track from any AR track), at least as long as the train you run with steel wheels that will trigger the operation of an AR device. Third, you cannot have more than one AR triggering train crossing either of the isolating rail gaps at the same time. Otherwise the AR device will be fighting with itself until — who knows? It fries itself? Blue smoke; not good. Waiting for the real experts (or comics) to weigh in. Bill D N&W Steam Only
Jim Betz All Messages By This Member #14240 William, ? The biggest problem/issue would be "what happens if two trains/locomotives are crossing the reversing section at the same time?".? This situation is likely to confuse the reverser to the point where it can't reach any decision about what to do - or even where it continously changes the polarity of the reversing section back and forth. ? Even if the reverser simply sees the situation as a short ("I tried the other way and it did not resolve the short - so I'll just set a short") it's a problem.?? ? The point of an auto-reverser is to fix a possible short (reverse the polarity of the reversing section) and allow the train to continue ... and to do so so quickly that you, the human observer, don't really notice (just care?). ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- hope this helps ... Jim in the PNW
William Waithe All Messages By This Member #14241 Bill, that other track which enters the reversing loop is electrically isolated from the AR segment by a gap between the turnout and a stub - ended lead into a classification yard. The lead?is powered by the command station bus. The other end of the loop? (electrically?isolated) leads to a track to the rest of the layout . A short circuit occurs when a locomotive crosses the gap at either end of the reversing section and I?did notice that the AR unit "clicks" twice (at both gaps of the AR section) when traversing the loop, which is most likely a sign of conflict.
Tim All Messages By This Member #14242 The thing to watch out for with multiple entrances is having trains entering/leaving at two different entrances at the same time. If they call for different polarities it can make things not happy. Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC
D B All Messages By This Member #14243 Jim Betz, My third point exactly. One cannot have more than one train crossing the isolating rail gaps at the same time. Bill D N&W Steam Only
D B All Messages By This Member #14244 William, Sounds like you’ve taken the steps to isolate the other track such that there is no conflict if only a single train is entering the AR segment from either entrance at one time. If the train continues to move, the double click you hear is probably not the sign of a conflict. If the AR wasn’t working as designed (and desired), the train would probably stall and hopefully your Circuit Breaker would pop. Certainly a lot more than “double clicking” would be anticipated from the AR. Bill D N&W Steam Only
whmvd All Messages By This Member #14245 "Second, there should be a non-AR length of track (separating the far or reverse end of the “other” track from any AR track), at least as long as the train you run with steel wheels that will trigger the operation of an AR device." Unless I read incorrectly what you are saying (a drawing would help), that is way, way overdone. They should not be directly adjacent, but even an isolated bit fed with normal track bus power as short as one truck will do the job. Wouter the non-comic toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 at 17:06, D B <1932mgj2@...> wrote: If the “other” track is physically isolated from the rest of the layout, e.g., a siding,? there shouldn’t be any issues.? But I assume that is not the primary concern.? If the “other” track is not physically isolated from the rest of the layout AND is not electrically isolated, then problems are likely, and certain, if the “other” track is electrically connected to the non-AR segment of track from which the subject AR segment is isolated. If the “other” track is not physically isolated from the rest of the layout but is electrically isolated, then you might not have issues, depending on operations.? The key point is that the “other” track has become a part of the AR segment to which it is connected.? This presents three limitations.? First the “other” track cannot itself be an AR segment.? It must be electrically isolated from any contiguous AR track.? ? Second, there should be a non-AR length of track (separating the far or reverse end of the “other” track from any AR track), at least as long as the train you run with steel wheels that will trigger the operation of an AR device.? Third, you cannot have more than one AR triggering train crossing either of the isolating rail gaps at the same time.? Otherwise the AR device will be fighting with itself until — who knows?? It fries itself?? Blue smoke; not good. Waiting for the real experts (or comics) to weigh in. Bill D N&W Steam Only
William Waithe All Messages By This Member #14246 Here is the plan. It is rather simple. the green section is the AR sector.
D B All Messages By This Member #14247 开云体育 Wouter is likely correct. ?No. 2 is probably overkill. ? Told you I was waiting for the comments of the experts or comic. ?? Bill D N&W Steam Only toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Jul 21, 2023, at 4:45 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote: ? "Second, there should be a non-AR length of track (separating the far or reverse end of the “other” track from any AR track), at least as long as the train you run with steel wheels that will trigger the operation of an AR device." Unless I read incorrectly what you are saying (a drawing would help), that is way, way overdone. They should not be directly adjacent, but even an isolated bit fed with normal track bus power as short as one truck will do the job. Wouter the non-comic On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 at 17:06, D B <1932mgj2@...> wrote: If the “other” track is physically isolated from the rest of the layout, e.g., a siding,? there shouldn’t be any issues.? But I assume that is not the primary concern.? If the “other” track is not physically isolated from the rest of the layout AND is not electrically isolated, then problems are likely, and certain, if the “other” track is electrically connected to the non-AR segment of track from which the subject AR segment is isolated. If the “other” track is not physically isolated from the rest of the layout but is electrically isolated, then you might not have issues, depending on operations.? The key point is that the “other” track has become a part of the AR segment to which it is connected.? This presents three limitations.? First the “other” track cannot itself be an AR segment.? It must be electrically isolated from any contiguous AR track.? ? Second, there should be a non-AR length of track (separating the far or reverse end of the “other” track from any AR track), at least as long as the train you run with steel wheels that will trigger the operation of an AR device.? Third, you cannot have more than one AR triggering train crossing either of the isolating rail gaps at the same time.? Otherwise the AR device will be fighting with itself until — who knows?? It fries itself?? Blue smoke; not good. Waiting for the real experts (or comics) to weigh in. Bill D N&W Steam Only

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