Re: power district gaps and other questions.
**Hi Allan -
**Reading your fine book again....? I have about 170 feet of double track main line, NCE SB3 and two DB5s...
NCE likes the cases on these grounded together, I take that as meaning close to each other.
?That makes my power bus wires longer to the two outlying zones.... THX Bill*-*
On Saturday, February 1, 2025 at 02:15:40 PM EST, Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
John,
?
You should mount your boosters central to the district they power.? Ideally, you want the distance from the endpoint of each track bus to the booster to be 30 feet or less.? Mounting your second booster next to the first, uses up 25 of those 30 feet.
?
Allan
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Re: power district gaps and other questions.
John,
?
You should mount your boosters central to the district they power.? Ideally, you want the distance from the endpoint of each track bus to the booster to be 30 feet or less.? Mounting your second booster next to the first, uses up 25 of those 30 feet.
?
Allan
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Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Jon,
?
I thought steel was the better connector. Guy argued with me that you need extra feeders for steel because it was a poor conductor. So thanks.
?
I prefer steel.? It has better adhesion. Nickle silver is slippery.? Fortunately, I live is So Cal, where humidity is not a problem.? Also there is more wheel rail contact in O scale, so while the rail needs to be kept clean, its not as fussy.
?
John
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Re: power district gaps and other questions.
My layout is an oval about 4X7. Part of the oval is a staging area. Mine is developed so that 2-3 people can operate. One as the staging person and 1-2 doing operations. Since there will be more than one person operating, I elected to sub-divide my layout into 4 zone. The booster feeds a PM-42 to power the 4 zones. This is to keep from one operator accidentally shorting the track and shutting down the entire layout. Each zone has a run of 14 gauge wire running the entire length of the layout. Track in each zone is connected with 22 gauge wire via snap-on connectors.
On Friday, January 31, 2025 at 03:56:49 PM CST, Mark Wescott via groups.io <markwescott1829@...> wrote:
How does one determine the ¡°length¡± of a layout when it is a oval? Total run of track (doubled for a 2 track main); or total linear distance from one end to the other?
Are the terms ¡°small layout,¡± ¡°medium layout,¡± and ¡°large layout¡± defined?
I am asking because I have a Power Cab and would like to know if I need a booster or two.?
Mark Wescott?
Hi John,
?
If you have two booster outputs tied together, definitely stop that immediately.
?
If you layout is 75 feet long (I do not know what you mean by "current point."), I would break it into two districts and locate a booster at the middle of each one.? Do not stagger your gaps by 6".? I've never staggered gaps between booster districts.
?
Connect the cases of your boosters together with at least a 16 gauge wire.? It's hard to get a heavy gauge wire under the screw of a case, so I have a terminal strip next to my boosters.? I run a short (about 8") 18 gauge wire and then run 14 gauge wires between the boosters terminal strips.
?
Since your distance from your boosters to the end of each booster district is only about 19 feet, you probably don't need snubbers, but if you do find you need them or want them, they would go at the end of each booster district.
?
Nickel silver track is a steel allow.? It does not contain silver and I don't think it has any nickel either.? It gets its name from the color of the metal.? Place track feeders about every 6 feet.
?
For more on layouts, see my book, "DCC and Model Railroading" (available from Trains.com or Amazon, Walthers, or Ron's Books) and my website, .
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Mark Westcott,
?
? There is another measure of the size of a layout - that's the number of
operators running at the same time.? Your PowerCab is fine for a one or
possibly even 2 or 3 operators - but more and you would need to get an
SB5 or go to a 5amp command station such as the PowerPro.? For either
of these you can still use your PowerCab as a throttle on the 'main layout'.
Also - every simultaneous operator needs their own throttle ... your
PowerCab will support 2 or 3 total (the PowerCab counts as the first one).
Most guys using a PowerCab are "it's just me".
?
? Set up for a separate programming track using DecoderPro - now.?
Use a totally separate piece of track (3' - 6' on a board) with its own?
PCP (PowerCab Panel).
? Personally, I do not recommend just a PowerCab for even a one person
layout that is longer than about 15 feet, end to end.? You will end up with
a long cable between the PowerCab and the PCP.?
?
? Have fun - this is all about what you want to do with your trains.? The
advice I have provided is in the interest of making your layout more fun
by just doing a few small things that will make life easier.
?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim in the PNW
?
? ? ?
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Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Thanks Alan,
?
By "current point" I mean I am planning to extend the track, at both ends of the point to point.? (The delay is putting up and debugging? perfecting the overhead trolley wire.)
?
The approximate midpoint of the planned second power district is about 25 feet from where the booster for the first district (ie, where the smart booster currently running the whose layout is).?
?
Should I move the other booster to the that location (the middle of the second district), connecting the boosters with a 25 foot long wire, or can I mount the second booster next to the first, which is most convenient, and then run a 25 foot feeder to the midpoint of the second power district?
?
I conventionally use 12 gauge speaker (stranded) wire for all power wires, except for feeders to the rail.??
?
As for feeders, I have a feeder soldered to each physical piece of rail.?
?
Thanks again,
?
John
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Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Allan,
Since the SB-5 is a smart booster (with? command station inside), I cannot imagine the need for more than one.
Wouter
Hi Mark,
?
There is no hard and fast definition for a small, medium or large layout.? I did give some guidelines for these in my book, ¡°DCC and Model Railroading.¡±
?
Answering the length question is a little easier.? It¡¯s the distance from your booster to the furthest point.? Ideally, you want this distance to be less than 30 feet.? In my website, I show come creative ways of covering a lot of track and keeping this distance down.? Go to:
Scroll down several paragraphs until you get to the drawing of a booster and a run going 30 ft in opposite directions for a total of 60 feet.? What follows are some other diagrams that can give you some ideas.
?
If you have a large layout that makes it difficult to keep track bus runs less than 30 feet, you may need some NCE SB-5¡¯s.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Hi Mark,
?
There is no hard and fast definition for a small, medium or large layout.? I did give some guidelines for these in my book, ¡°DCC and Model Railroading.¡±
?
Answering the length question is a little easier.? It¡¯s the distance from your booster to the furthest point.? Ideally, you want this distance to be less than 30 feet.? In my website, I show come creative ways of covering a lot of track and keeping this distance down.? Go to:
Scroll down several paragraphs until you get to the drawing of a booster and a run going 30 ft in opposite directions for a total of 60 feet.? What follows are some other diagrams that can give you some ideas.
?
If you have a large layout that makes it difficult to keep track bus runs less than 30 feet, you may need some NCE SB-5¡¯s.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
Re: power district gaps and other questions.
How does one determine the ¡°length¡± of a layout when it is a oval? Total run of track (doubled for a 2 track main); or total linear distance from one end to the other?
Are the terms ¡°small layout,¡± ¡°medium layout,¡± and ¡°large layout¡± defined?
I am asking because I have a Power Cab and would like to know if I need a booster or two.?
Mark Wescott?
Hi John,
?
If you have two booster outputs tied together, definitely stop that immediately.
?
If you layout is 75 feet long (I do not know what you mean by "current point."), I would break it into two districts and locate a booster at the middle of each one.? Do not stagger your gaps by 6".? I've never staggered gaps between booster districts.
?
Connect the cases of your boosters together with at least a 16 gauge wire.? It's hard to get a heavy gauge wire under the screw of a case, so I have a terminal strip next to my boosters.? I run a short (about 8") 18 gauge wire and then run 14 gauge wires between the boosters terminal strips.
?
Since your distance from your boosters to the end of each booster district is only about 19 feet, you probably don't need snubbers, but if you do find you need them or want them, they would go at the end of each booster district.
?
Nickel silver track is a steel allow.? It does not contain silver and I don't think it has any nickel either.? It gets its name from the color of the metal.? Place track feeders about every 6 feet.
?
For more on layouts, see my book, "DCC and Model Railroading" (available from Trains.com or Amazon, Walthers, or Ron's Books) and my website, .
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Just to add to the discussion.. ? Yes,?nickel silver contains nickel, but it does not contain silver.?Nickel silver is an alloy of copper, nickel, and zinc.? The usual formulation is 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc.?Nickel silver does not contain the element silver. It is named for its silvery appearance, which can make it attractive as a cheaper and more durable substitute. It is also well suited for being plated with silver. ? Nickel Silver rail has greater electrical resistance than steel, however, it is very corrosion resistant, a more desirable feature on model railroads than electrical resistance, hence the need for many feeder points. ? Jon ___________________________ ?
|
Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Hi John,
?
If you have two booster outputs tied together, definitely stop that immediately.
?
If you layout is 75 feet long (I do not know what you mean by "current point."), I would break it into two districts and locate a booster at the middle of each one.? Do not stagger your gaps by 6".? I've never staggered gaps between booster districts.
?
Connect the cases of your boosters together with at least a 16 gauge wire.? It's hard to get a heavy gauge wire under the screw of a case, so I have a terminal strip next to my boosters.? I run a short (about 8") 18 gauge wire and then run 14 gauge wires between the boosters terminal strips.
?
Since your distance from your boosters to the end of each booster district is only about 19 feet, you probably don't need snubbers, but if you do find you need them or want them, they would go at the end of each booster district.
?
Nickel silver track is a steel allow.? It does not contain silver and I don't think it has any nickel either.? It gets its name from the color of the metal.? Place track feeders about every 6 feet.
?
For more on layouts, see my book, "DCC and Model Railroading" (available from Trains.com or Amazon, Walthers, or Ron's Books) and my website, www.WiringForDCC.com.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
power district gaps and other questions.
Hi group,
?
I have a point to point O Scale layout, currently around 40+ feet long, partially converted to DCC.? ?I use a NCE Power Cab, Currently, I have a single power district fed by two 5 amp NCE boosters.? I have learned it would be better to have two power districts, each powered by one of the boosters.??
?
Questions:
?
1.? From pre-DCC days, I have a logical power district ending with staggered rail gaps about 6" apart. Is that a problem? Do the gaps in the rail have to line up?
?
2.? ?Currently,? my single power district, ends with a homemade snubber, at the current end of point to? point.? ? Do I need a snubber at the end of each power district?? In other words, do I need to add over at the the border between to the two power districts?
?
3.? ?Also, the layout is set up to run either with 2-rail or from an overhead trolley wire. When using the overhead, both rails are the return.? I know I will have to gap the wire at the? power district border.? The overhead wire, phospher bronze, no doubt has greater resistance than the rail (.100 steel). So is a 30 foot long power district for the overhead OK?? So far, I have had no problems running from the overhead using the single district.?
?
4. Finally, to settle a dispute, is nickel silver or steel rail the better conductor, have the least electrical resistance?
?
Thanks for any advice,
?
John Bishop
|
See? . You'll need to solder the LEDs at some point with pretty much any solution I'm aware of.?
Craig Zeni
Cary, NC
Despatched from my infernal Android
Thanks Robert. Looking for something less permanent, and definitely without resistors. Something that would allow me to add and remove LEDs as needed.
?
James McNab
|
Thanks Robert. Looking for something less permanent, and definitely without resistors. Something that would allow me to add and remove LEDs as needed.
?
James McNab
thehillsline.com
|
Try here¡
Robert Heroux
ACCU-LITES, Inc.
12172 RT47
Suite 130
Huntley, IL 60142
Phone: 847.224.7914
NMRA Member # 143811
http://www.acculites.com
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On Jan 29, 2025, at 07:25, James McNab via groups.io <jfmcnab@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any recommendations for wiring harnesses/connectors for individual 8mm LEDs? I'd like to avoid soldering feeders directly to the leads to provide the opportunity to swap the LEDs out at a later time.
?
James McNab
thehillsline.com
|
Does anyone have any recommendations for wiring harnesses/connectors for individual 8mm LEDs? I'd like to avoid soldering feeders directly to the leads to provide the opportunity to swap the LEDs out at a later time.
?
James McNab
thehillsline.com
|
Re: Auto Reverse Help/Suggestions
Jim, what has this discussion have to do with the use of auto-reversers on this layout.? They are used for switching rail "polarity" so that you don't end up with a short where the track doubles back on itself.
John Moonan
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Re: Auto Reverse Help/Suggestions
Thanks Jim.
I have a fairly limited 5¡¯x9¡¯ layout. ?Figure 8 with two reverse loops (with DCC AR protection). ?Gives me ability to reverse trains in two directions. ?
My layout is mid-50s N&W steam only, modeling Appalachian/W.Va. coal country. ?Only two developed areas: my steam loco service area with turntable and roundhouse, water tower, coal tower, sidings, etc.; and a coal mining area on a plateau nestled within the C-shaped curve of my mountain range covering one end of the layout. ?One of the mines is reached via a siding from the main layout. ?There isn¡¯t room to reach the second mine from the main track, so ?double track dummy siding (goes to nowhere through a portal in the mountain) comes to the mine. Originally this segment was going to be unpowered. ?
Then I found the Bachmann Shay through a club dispersal event. ?Really neat little loco. ?Fixing gear issues. ?Upgrading to DCC sound. ?Shay will run to service the second mine. ?
I figure having it move back and forth on a two-foot long siding would be too much a challenge on a small layout! ?I¡¯ll have my hands full running my N&W J-powered 8-car passenger consist and my N&W A-powered mixed freight. ?Too much to hope to be able to also pay attention to the Shay with my controller!
I¡¯ve ordered the DCC board from Great Britain recommended in an earlier post to allow the Shay to move instead of being a black lump on the rails. ?Not prototypical as you note? ?Likely. ?Better than a static display of a neat little loco? ?Priceless. ?
Thanks for your comments. ?Just wanted you to be aware of extenuating circumstances which I think warrant my choice. ?
Besides, ¡°It¡¯s my railroad . . .? Oh, excuse me, that doesn¡¯t apply to your constructive comments at all! ??
Bill D
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On Jan 27, 2025, at 11:08?AM, Allan AE2V via groups.io <bigboy@...> wrote:
? Rob,
?
You have balloon tracks in modules 16 and 17.? Everything after the turnouts in module 15 should be part of a reversing section.
?
For more on reversing, see my book, "DCC & Model Railroading", available on Amazon, Trains.com, Ron's books, and Walther's com.? Also see the reversing section in my website,
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
Re: Auto Reverse Help/Suggestions
Rob,
?
You have balloon tracks in modules 16 and 17.? Everything after the turnouts in module 15 should be part of a reversing section.
?
For more on reversing, see my book, "DCC & Model Railroading", available on Amazon, Trains.com, Ron's books, and Walther's com.? Also see the reversing section in my website,
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
|
Re: Auto Reverse Help/Suggestions
Hi,
? Although auto-reverse is fun ... most of the methods for doing it using
DCC are, to my eye at least, unsatisfactory because the train doesn't
make a nice -gentle- slow to a stop, pause a long time, and then accelerate
-slowly- off in the opposite direction.? It -is- possible to this "right" but
you need to start off with that as part of your goal/must haves.
? Personally, I'd rather not have a 'semi-static display' like this (where
the train/motorcar/whatever goes back and forth 'all on its own' but
it's YOUR layout and you should do what you want.? I guess I'm just
a grumpy old man today.? Sorry.
?
? An important thing that hasn't been said yet - if you decide to do
this as an "isolated DC piece of track" make super-certain that all
trains on either type of track can NOT derail and cross the streams of
the DCC and DC.? Really bad/expensive things happen!
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim in the PNW
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Jim Betz
Craig Zeni
James McNab