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Re: DCC Ammeter
John,
I think you are getting it.? How could voltages be in places you don't expect?? If there is a wiring error.? I can't tell you how many times this has happened to readers.? This especially happens when they make a change to the layout.? The fact that you are not seeing track voltages in places you don't expect is good.? That's what we want. You mention that the RRAmpmeter had prior use.? It could have been damaged during its last use. Now that you have done the check I wanted you to do and a few others, when you get your repaired/replaced RRAmpmeter, you are probably going to be fine. The small voltage reading you did get is because your layout wiring is acting like an antenna and is picking up the AC in your house wiring.? This is common and is okay. Allan |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Allan, You are right that I don't quite get it. I went back to the layout again and checked the power feeds where they would have gone to the RRAmpmeter (now out of the circuit completely) and using the DVM read 12.2V. Then I went to the two dangling leads to the PSX to find no reading. But then I asked myself: How could there be a reading when the feed is disconnected? So I went on and connected the Booster output to the PSX, which then sends its output to three separate areas of the layout. Then I disconnected all three outputs, read the voltage out from the PSX (12.2 VAC on the DVM) and then connected each of the three power districts and checked the remaining two for feedback districts. I did the same for the second PSX and its three districts. After 12 readings, I found no feedback voltage above 0.5VAC on two of them. I'm not sure what causes a voltage like the, but nothing like the input voltage level. Nothing in this would track back to blowing a meter. I should say this meter has been used on at least four layout builds so it is entirely possible it was damaged in a previous outing. If I'm still not getting it, please try me again. Thanks for your patience! John On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:31?PM Allan AE2V via <bigboy=[email protected]> wrote: John, |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
John,
I'm not sure you got it.? Set the RRAmpmeter aside. Don't hook it up.? With the wires that should go to the output of the RRAmpmeter, have them "dangle".? Connect your DVM to these dangling wires.? If you read about 11.8V, then you have something feeding power to them that should not be there.? Without the RRAmpmeter, you should be reading close to 0. Allan |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI hope I understood your directions correctly and I did what you asked. Input showed ?14.7 on the wires into the meter and DVM read 11.82vAC. . On the output side with the RRA connected the output voltage and current showed the same readings to the first place of decimals. At the same time the RRA read 5.22A in both conditions. I will update ASAP and keep checking the wiring loom. Thanks again.Best Regards, John On 10 May 2024, at 14:30, Allan AE2V via groups.io <bigboy@...> wrote:
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Re: DCC Ammeter
John,
While you are waiting to get your RRAmpmeter repaired/replaced, I would check the wires you had hooked up to the output of it.? If you have a digital multimeter, set it on 20V or 200V AC range.? Measure the two wires you had hooked to the input to get a reference.? (Note:? a ordinary digital multimeter will not usually read the 14.2V you saw with the RRampmeter.)? Then measure the wires you had hooked to the output of the RRampmeter.? If you get a voltage there, then you know what smoked your RRampmeter.? Find out why and fix the problem before reattaching a new RRampmeter. Allan |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Thanks for the advice Allan, and I did as you suggested. And unfortunately I got 14.2V and 5.22A when completely disconnected on the output side. So I believe your diagnosis of a damaged meter would appear to be correct. Thanks to everyone for your inputs and advice! It¡¯s much appreciated as always. Now I¡¯ll give TTE another try and see if it can be salvaged!
Best wishes, John |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Hi John,
I've not had a bad RRAmmeter.? Anything is possible, but it is more likely that at some point, it was wired into your layout incorrectly.?? For any electronic or electrical device, do not hook up any power source, like track power, to any output. In any event, at this point, you need to determine if your RRAmmeter is bad.? Do this: Disconnect all wires from the outputs of the RRAmmeter.? Just to be certain, the outputs are on the right side of the RRAmmeter.? Then connect the inputs (on the left side) directly to your booster.? You then should read a voltage on the RRAmmeter around 14V.? The amp reading should be zero.? If you are reading anything other than zero, like the 5+ amps you had mentioned in a previous message, then your RRAmmeter is probably defective. If it is defective, you will need to contact Tony's Trains and see if they are servicing them and then possibly return it for repair. Allan Gartner Wiring for DCC |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks Allen. I¡¯d love to have a second (let alone four), as I could swap one out and see if I am the problem or is the meter the problem. So I¡¯m wondering if you have ever seen a RRAmmeter fail?Best Regards, John On 6 May 2024, at 15:31, Allan AE2V via groups.io <bigboy@...> wrote:
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Re: DCC Ammeter
For those that have never used this meter, check out the online instructions for the RRAmmeter on Tony's Trains website.
It is a combination DCC voltmeter and amp meter.? It has two displays and when installed in line with your track bus from your booster, it will read both simultaneously.? It draws its power from the track bus, so it needs the two inputs tied to your track bus. If all you want to do is read voltage, you only need to have the two inputs connected to the track bus.? For around the layout diagnostics, you can carry it with you and touch the inputs to the track for a voltage reading. It has two outputs that you will use to read amperage.? I suspect there is nothing magical about it having two inputs.? The amp meter is probably is series with one of the outputs.? The other output is probably just the return from your layout and provides a convenient connection to do that with.? I suppose you could bypass the second output terminal, but one way or another, you need the return from your track. I have three of these meters.? Each one is connected directly to the output of my boosters.? The two output terminals go to the track bus for that portion of the layout. I also have one I keep in my tool box for measuring track voltage. Allan Gartner Wiring for DCC |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Sorry for the lack of clarity, so I'll try to be more specific. I'm using a RRAmpmeter which has pairs of contacts on the left hand side and the right when looking at the digital readout. Connecting either pair of contacts to the rails directly gives a Voltage reading. In order to measure current, the meter needs to be inline, if I'm reading the feedback (and re-reading the instructions) correctly.? Don, to answer your question, no, there was no sign of short circuits on either layout PowerCab and PowerPro, as I responded to Wouter, so it's another puzzling aspect to this meter.? As per the instruction sheet, Figure 1, I connect the output from the Booster to the left hand pair of contacts on the meter, and track feed pair out to the PSXs, from the RH pair of? contacts. (Hence my expression "two wires in, two wires out). Even disconnecting from the track, the booster output still shows full voltage AND 5.2Amps. Am I looking at a duff meter? Thanks for your help! John On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 12:32?PM Don Weigt via <dweigt47=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Same as Wouter, I don't understand your meter or its connections.... An additional thought: if you've been measuring short circuit current, then the DCC system should have been giving a short circuit indication or warning. You didn't say whether that was happening. Was it? Don W -- Don Weigt Connecticut |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
John, The "two wires in, two wires out" description is beyond anything I can imagine a meter would be like, so I'm afraid I'm going to ave to leave it to those who understand your setup and/or meter. Sorry! Wouter On Sun, 5 May 2024 at 15:14, John Cahill via <johncahill25=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: DCC Ammeter
John,
Are you using a DCC Specialties RR Ammeter?? If so, it is indeed two wires in and two wires out.? Consult their documentation for clear diagrams on how to hook it up. As others here have mentioned, the RR Ammeter needs to be in series with the load.? I'm wondering if your layout has another wire in place that shorts things out when you attempt to use your RR Ammeter since you appear to be reading the full booster output. Try a simple set up.? Put a loco on a test track that is completely separate from your layout to rule out any wiring surprises.? Then connect your test track to your booster through the RR Ammeter.? All you should read should be a fraction of an amp for that one loco. Allan Gartner Wiring for DCC |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Wouter/Don, Your responses are similar so in my layout, I do the voltage across the rails, as indicated, but for current, I was putting the meter in line with the bus wires, i.e. two wires in and two out, which is different to how your diagram, Wouter,? shows it. So for confirmation, I feed one wire in and through the meter and the second power wire by-passes the meter? In which case, does it matter which terminals on the meter (top in/out or bottom in/out) are used? Thanks for your responses, Guys! John On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 1:57?PM whmvd via <vandoornw=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Sounds to me like you are shorting the Power Pro with the amp meter. For voltage, the meter must be across the track, for current it must be in one of the power leads. Voltage: ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |??? track???? | Power Pro --------------------------x????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? x------------------ X ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? |?????????????????? meter ??????????????????????????????????? x------------- | ----------------- X ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | Power Pro ------------------------- | -------------x ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |??? track???? | Power Pro --------X meter X---------x????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | Power Pro ------------------------- | -------------x ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | ??????????????????????????????????? |????????????? | Wouter On Sat, 4 May 2024 at 22:06, John Cahill via <johncahill25=[email protected]> wrote: Hi! I¡¯m looking for help with my DCC Ammeter. I have had it for number of years and used it as a voltmeter only while building a large layout to test for power, shorts, reversed wiring in hand-held mobile mode. I¡¯m using NCE Power Pro¡¯s to control the layout which is divided into three power districts each with a PSX for short circuit protection. The layout is built and has some glitches and I need to be able to measure current. My specific question is: why am I seeing a reading of 5.24 Amps regardless of where I place the meter. I plug it in line in the different busses and at the booster output, and always get the same current reading.Voltage is 14.2, Current reads 5.22A. I have also tried it on my Power Cab test layout which I use for programming and testing decoders and locos. Voltage 11.8-12.1, Current 5.2A. This suggests a problem with the meter or that I¡¯m using it incorrectly. I¡¯ve tried contacting TTE¡¯s tech support but haven¡¯t heard anything back so I¡¯m hoping someone on here can help me with this problem! Thanks in advance. John |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
John, It does seem you might be reading the short circuit current limit, which would happen if you connected across the rails, same as if you were reading track voltage. You need to open a connection in one lead (wire or rail) and insert the meter across it, in current mode, to read normal operating circuit Amperes, not short circuit current. Don W -- Don Weigt Connecticut |
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Re: DCC Ammeter
Think of a garden hose. Amps would be the equivalent of how fast the water is flowing. Generally speaking that would be the same speed throughout the system until you reach a "branch" where each new branch would have its own speed. Speed cannot be faster in one part of the system than the other unless you create a damn of sorts. But then the speed (amps) of each section should still be relatively constant.? Remember, an amp meter typically has to be online, meaning you have to break the wire somewhere and let the meter become "part of the wire". That being said, 5 amps does sound pretty high, you may have a real problem or perhaps you are not connecting the meter properly On Sat, May 4, 2024, 5:06?PM John Cahill via <johncahill25=[email protected]> wrote: Hi! I¡¯m looking for help with my DCC Ammeter. I have had it for number of years and used it as a voltmeter only while building a large layout to test for power, shorts, reversed wiring in hand-held mobile mode. I¡¯m using NCE Power Pro¡¯s to control the layout which is divided into three power districts each with a PSX for short circuit protection. The layout is built and has some glitches and I need to be able to measure current. My specific question is: why am I seeing a reading of 5.24 Amps regardless of where I place the meter. I plug it in line in the different busses and at the booster output, and always get the same current reading.Voltage is 14.2, Current reads 5.22A. I have also tried it on my Power Cab test layout which I use for programming and testing decoders and locos. Voltage 11.8-12.1, Current 5.2A. This suggests a problem with the meter or that I¡¯m using it incorrectly. I¡¯ve tried contacting TTE¡¯s tech support but haven¡¯t heard anything back so I¡¯m hoping someone on here can help me with this problem! Thanks in advance. John |
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DCC Ammeter
Hi! I¡¯m looking for help with my DCC Ammeter. I have had it for number of years and used it as a voltmeter only while building a large layout to test for power, shorts, reversed wiring in hand-held mobile mode. I¡¯m using NCE Power Pro¡¯s to control the layout which is divided into three power districts each with a PSX for short circuit protection. The layout is built and has some glitches and I need to be able to measure current. My specific question is: why am I seeing a reading of 5.24 Amps regardless of where I place the meter. I plug it in line in the different busses and at the booster output, and always get the same current reading.Voltage is 14.2, Current reads 5.22A. I have also tried it on my Power Cab test layout which I use for programming and testing decoders and locos. Voltage 11.8-12.1, Current 5.2A. This suggests a problem with the meter or that I¡¯m using it incorrectly. I¡¯ve tried contacting TTE¡¯s tech support but haven¡¯t heard anything back so I¡¯m hoping someone on here can help me with this problem! Thanks in advance. John
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Myron Lind
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