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Aaron,

You have some reading to do!
The standards page:


Start with the electrical spec:


Then read the packet format:



To greatly simplify, DCC is a square wave that has 2 distinct time periods,
58uS and 116uS. If the square wave is 58uS in period, it indicates a '1' and
if it is 116uS (or longer) it indicates a '0'. The amplitude of the waveform
is typically 12V-18V depending on the scale of railroad, and how much motor
voltage you want present on the rails. Because it is a square wave, you can
use a simple bridge rectifier to obtain DC power from the track without
large capacitors. This is important because there isn't room inside a loco
for large capacitors. With this DC power extracted from the rails, you can
power your decoder CPU, and let it watch the waveform to determine the bits,
and packets. If you are controlling a motor, such as a loco, you would then
use this DC power extracted from the rails and use PWM to speed control the
loco motor.

There are more details, but I hope that description helps get your head
around the concept.

Bob Scheffler
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.pricom.com

Dear Bob,

The device you introduce to me is very interesting, but I am looking
for something that can show me the waveform from the rails.

I have the thought to build the device as part of my project, so was
wondering if you know how to separate the frequencies from the rails.

The picture I have in mind is something like a 'microfilter (for the
telephone line)' where the output will be to a oscillator to view
the waveforms.

I havn't buy my own set of tracks yet, therefore I would like to
know if whether there are standard voltage, current and frequency
from the rails, or is it up to individual product in the market.

All contributions are welcome

Aaron


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Robert Scheffler" <bob@p...>
wrote:

Aaron,

If you are looking to decode the packets, then try this:

www.dcctester.com

which will read and decode all the packets. You can display the

packets on a

built-in LCD, on a PC using Hyper Terminal, or using Stefan

Trachsler's

LocoChecker here:


Hope this helps!

Bob Scheffler

Aaron,

If you are looking to decode the packets, then try this: www.dcctester.com
which will read and decode all the packets. You can display the packets on a
built-in LCD, on a PC using Hyper Terminal, or using Stefan Trachsler's
LocoChecker here:


Hope this helps!

Bob Scheffler

I am currently doing some research on DCC and would be starting to
build a DCC receiver according to NMRA stardards in due time.

At the very moment, I would like to extract the signal waveforms from
the tracks. Any ideas how I should go about doing that.

Is there a standard voltage, current and frequency from the control
station?

Aaron

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@m...>
wrote:

DCC requires good solid electrical connections and contacts. The

mechanism that selects which rails will be energized is likely to be a
puny sliding contact switch or only points of the moving rails. This
might be adequate for DC but with DCC a short circuit on switch rails
and the power available from a good DCC booster in combination of the
relatively poor electrical contact at can cause havoc. Electrical
resistance of that contact may limit current such that the booster
does not trip off but can cause the sliding contact to get hot enough
to melt plastic parts of the turnout.

DonV

Thank you for your reply.What kind of switches will be best for HO=DCC
use?I'm presently using Fleischmann-Profi with motor and ballast.Are
switches,which have all rails energized better? Thanks again.

DCC requires good solid electrical connections and contacts. The mechanism that selects which rails will be energized is likely to be a puny sliding contact switch or only points of the moving rails. This might be adequate for DC but with DCC a short circuit on switch rails and the power available from a good DCC booster in combination of the relatively poor electrical contact at can cause havoc. Electrical resistance of that contact may limit current such that the booster does not trip off but can cause the sliding contact to get hot enough to melt plastic parts of the turnout.

DonV

To convert to DCC,what do I have to look out for when using so called
Thinking Switches,in other words,rails being energized only in
direction set.Does any different application apply for operations in
DCC?

Hi I am new to this group so halo to you all
I have a question concerning the peco scissors crossings and DCC I was
told that you could use a reversing unit and not use the peco switch
but I was a bit concerned. I phoned peco and was told this was not a
very good idea now I am totally confuse how should I wire them as
there will be two on my new layout. I will be using a ZTC511 wich I
have just purchased but the paper work they sent me did not help is
there someone out there who has any experience of this

Thank you

Brian

The solderless quick splice terminals can be found prety cheaply at
All Electronics (www.allelectronics.com)for about a dime a piece.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry Goodwin"
<jerrygoodwin@y...> wrote:

Thanks, this is what I was looking for. I really was hoping for a
solution that didn't involve a utility-knife step, but oh well, if
that's the way everyone does it then I can deal with it too. I've
heard of the solderless connectors that cut through the insulation,
too, but I thought they were pretty expensive (like a buck each).

Thanks.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@m...>
wrote:

You missed the rather pointed question...
How do you strip off the insulation on a solid bus wire without

cutting it in two? All the fancy wire strippers I've seen are meant
to work well only at the end of a wire, particularly with

thermo-plastic.

I use the one-handed type stripper twice, facing in alternate

directions to isolate a 3/4 - 1 inch section of insulation then use a
sharp utility knife to slit the insulation and pull it off. Wrap the
track feeder drop wires several turns around the bare bus wire. Then
solder.

The trick of soldering is to use a clean hot iron with a relatively

large tip so as to have plenty of instant heat to transfer to the wire
wrapped around the bus. (A soldering 'gun' doesn't work well as it
has little heat reservoir.) Tin the iron with a little extra solder
for good heat transfer. Let it dwell on the joint for 2-3 seconds to
heat it up, then touch the wrapped wire with rosin core solder. It
should flow right into the joint. There is no need to add so much
solder that it drips...But don't do this over your face either. Wear
safety glasses and a heavy shirt just in case.

I added a slanting upright back rest to an auto mechanics creeper

that works great for fiddling under the layout.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 7:28 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: attaching feeder wires to bus


1. I use wire strippers to pull the bus wire insulation apart,wrap

the

feeder wire tightly around the bus wire, and solder.
2. Don't us the old type wire strippers that require you to hold one
wire with one hand and pull the insulation away with the wire
strippers. Newer strippers that are really not costly at all --

$5 to

15 or so -- do a perfect job. Look for the wire strippers that allow
basically one handed operation. You just put the stripper over the
wire and squeeze. One side grips the insulation and hold, the other
side cuts automatically to the size of the wire (doesn't even nick

the

wire) and pulls the insulation back about 1/2" to 1" or so. If you
need more than that space just reposition and squeeze again. It's
soooo simple to do this way. They work perfectly on twisted wires as
well. These strippers are available at most hardware and supply

stores

like Menard's, Lowe's, etc. If you need more info let me know.
Ken
--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry Goodwin"
<jerrygoodwin@y...> wrote:

How do you connect the feeder wire to the bus?

If you solder it, how do you strip the insulation from the bus

in the

middle of a stretch of wire without cutting the wire?

And how do you avoid dripping hot solder on your face?

Thanks, this is what I was looking for. I really was hoping for a
solution that didn't involve a utility-knife step, but oh well, if
that's the way everyone does it then I can deal with it too. I've
heard of the solderless connectors that cut through the insulation,
too, but I thought they were pretty expensive (like a buck each).

Thanks.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@m...>
wrote:

You missed the rather pointed question...
How do you strip off the insulation on a solid bus wire without

cutting it in two? All the fancy wire strippers I've seen are meant
to work well only at the end of a wire, particularly with thermo-plastic.

I use the one-handed type stripper twice, facing in alternate

directions to isolate a 3/4 - 1 inch section of insulation then use a
sharp utility knife to slit the insulation and pull it off. Wrap the
track feeder drop wires several turns around the bare bus wire. Then
solder.

The trick of soldering is to use a clean hot iron with a relatively

large tip so as to have plenty of instant heat to transfer to the wire
wrapped around the bus. (A soldering 'gun' doesn't work well as it
has little heat reservoir.) Tin the iron with a little extra solder
for good heat transfer. Let it dwell on the joint for 2-3 seconds to
heat it up, then touch the wrapped wire with rosin core solder. It
should flow right into the joint. There is no need to add so much
solder that it drips...But don't do this over your face either. Wear
safety glasses and a heavy shirt just in case.

I added a slanting upright back rest to an auto mechanics creeper

that works great for fiddling under the layout.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 7:28 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: attaching feeder wires to bus


1. I use wire strippers to pull the bus wire insulation apart,wrap the
feeder wire tightly around the bus wire, and solder.
2. Don't us the old type wire strippers that require you to hold one
wire with one hand and pull the insulation away with the wire
strippers. Newer strippers that are really not costly at all -- $5 to
15 or so -- do a perfect job. Look for the wire strippers that allow
basically one handed operation. You just put the stripper over the
wire and squeeze. One side grips the insulation and hold, the other
side cuts automatically to the size of the wire (doesn't even nick the
wire) and pulls the insulation back about 1/2" to 1" or so. If you
need more than that space just reposition and squeeze again. It's
soooo simple to do this way. They work perfectly on twisted wires as
well. These strippers are available at most hardware and supply stores
like Menard's, Lowe's, etc. If you need more info let me know.
Ken
--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry Goodwin"
<jerrygoodwin@y...> wrote:

How do you connect the feeder wire to the bus?

If you solder it, how do you strip the insulation from the bus in the
middle of a stretch of wire without cutting the wire?

And how do you avoid dripping hot solder on your face?

Ah, heck, I might as well put in my two cents.

For stripping wires, I like the fancy stripper that clamps on the wire
in two places and spreads the insulation. I admit it doesn't work
perfectly, but it works well enough.

As far as not dripping solder on yourself, the basic question is why
do you have so much solder on a joint that it drips on you? For many
people, the reason is that they are applying so much solder to get
enough flux on the wire to get the wire to adhere. If you are solid
home wiring, that wire has a coating on the wire that makes it hard
for solder to adhere. Regular rosin core solder doesn't do a great
job cutting through this coating. So people keep applying heat in
hopes of getting things to work. I find liquid flux does such a great
job, that you see the wire start shining right away.

H&N Electronics sells a liquid flux that I am very happy with. YOu
can get to them through my webpage at:


I suggest the "gel" they sell for soldering to rail. I use
the "liquid" for soldering feeders to buses. Just be sure that if you
use liquid flux, you do NOT use a rosin core solder. You use solid
solder. Using liquid flux is an extra step, but this stuff will
impress you. Once you try it, you will be glad to perform the extra
step.

Now that we have solved the problem of getting solder to adhere, you
should find that you drip less of it on the floor - or your face.

BTW: Take a tip from the '70's, NEVER wear double-knit polyester
pants. THe solder melts right through the stuff and burns your skin.

Allan

Gene,

You're the first person who has wanted to unjoin. As moderator, I'm
sure I can delete you. But before you go, are you aware you have a
choice of how you get messages including not having them sent to you?

I'm a member of several of these groups. I'm with you. I would go
nuts if all those groups sent me emails all the time. Some groups, I
have myself set not to receive at all. I only get those messages if I
sign on. A few groups send me daily digests - which is a compilation
of all the days messages in one big message. The Wiring For DCC is
the only one I allow to send me individual messages.

Go to management on the left side of your screen. Change your
preferences or delete yourself. If that doesn't work, let me know and
I'll find a way to delete you.

Allan

The issue of power-routing frogs is twofold.

1) Insulated dead frogs of any kind (steel or plastic) leave dead spots in the track. Some locos will stall on them if wheel pick-up is marginal and you attempt to roll through the switch at slow speed. (Atlas and Peco Insulfrog) Powering the frog will help avoid that problem....But it must be at the correct polarity to avoid short circuits as a loco runs through the switch. Hense power routed frogs.

2) Some track switches have all metal frog points that are not insulated from the adjoining frog and/or point rails. (original Shinohara/Walthers for example). These switches MUST have power routing of the whole frog section as it is much too long to be dead track. They may or may not have a good built-in mechanism to perform polarity corrected power routing right out of the box. (Walthers do, Pilz don't) In either case, these switches require insulated rail joiners (or built-in rail gaps) to isolate the frog rails from other track.

The term "Power Routing" also refers to switching the polarity and/or powering the track rails leading away from the switch frog. For DC systems this was a convenient way of removing power from siding track for non-used loco storage. This is not necessarily desired when using DCC. In most cases the built-in method for selecting frog polarity does not form a robust trouble-free electrical connection. With DCC an accidental short ciucuit through the frog or rail points can actually damage the built-in switch. Adding a separate micro-switch to firmly connect the proper polarity can be tricky as it must switch connections when any built-in mechanism is open circuit.

DonV

I have been reading the Wiring for DCC site regarding turnouts and I
think I may be overlooking or just not understanding something about
power routing, frog power routing and wiring for turnouts in general.
let me explain my circumstances:

I am constructing a new layout (16' x 40') and I am in advanced
benchwork phase (L Girder with risers and cleats and 3/4 plywood sub-
roadbed). I have laid 100 feet of Atlas code 100 flex track and have
another 300 feet in a box I also have about 30 or so PECO Code 100
Insulfrog Turnouts of various sizes, sm med larg, curved etc...

Should I use these Peco Turnouts which according to the "wiring
turnouts" sections says this type of turnout is DCC Friendly as is.
The Peco Insulfrog turnouts also appear to require the least amount of
work to wire and use.

I don't understand the concept of power routing the frogs of switches,
I see on the site it says this Peco turnout does not allowe a power
routed frog (presumably because this is not a live frog) What impact
will this have for me? Why would I want to power route the frog? What
does that allowe me to do that the dead frog doesn't allowe?

I plan on using these specific Peco turnouts in a double ended yard and
if they are DCC friendly and easy to istall, should I use them, or
based on what I have read about the new Walthers DCC Friendly Code 83
turnouts, Should I scrap the Peco and Code 100 and invest in and switch
to code 83 DCC Friendly in the yard, since the only track I have laid
so far is about 100 feet of main line and I can easily transition to
code 83 in the yards.

I also don't quite get the advantages of the Walthers Code 83 DCC
Friendly turnouts over the PECO Insulfrog code 100 turnouts, with all
the extra soldering I would need to do on the underside of the
walthers. And I don't understand the concept of power routing the frogs
on the walthers, DO I have to power route the Walthers DCC Friendly
frogs? My Intention would also to be to use them in the yards and
won't my yards be wired anyway?

Just in case this has a bearing let me decribe my Loco fleet: My fleet
is state of the art, since I have had the luxury of getting rid of all
old Locos and over the past two years have purchased 20 or so new
Broadway Limited Steam engines and a few of their diesels, all with
sound etc and another 10 or so of the latest Atlas and Proto 2000 locos
with DCC and sound. These locos don't seem to have problems picking up
current from the track, an in my old DC test tracks they make it over
the peco frogs with no problems or sparks. And This new layout is going
to be DCC as soon as I figure out which radio controlled DCC system I
want or need to purchase, I figure I will be in Benchwork, track, and
scenery for another 12 months so I am not exactly in a hurry to buy the
DCC system any time soon as the technology keeps getting better and the
prices seem to be stabilizing and even getting mildly lower, I borrow
my brothers digitrax system(2 yr old system) for testing dcc now and
then.
What am I missing in general or detailed terms about power routing
frogs?

Don't I just wire the main line to my bus ( I solder the underside of
all track to leads attached to a bus and also solder radius rail
joiners) and wire the yard on the same bus and if the Peco Turnouts
don't need insulated joiners, what is the point of routing power to the
sidings? they will already be wired and powered. I Planned on using
simple ground throws to operate the yard switches since they will be
easily accessed near the edge of the layout and there will be 20
switches in the yard and the thought of wiring up 20 totoises for a
single yard gives me heartburn.

Any Light that someone can shed for me on the above matters would be
greatly appreciated.

You missed the rather pointed question...
How do you strip off the insulation on a solid bus wire without cutting it in two? All the fancy wire strippers I've seen are meant to work well only at the end of a wire, particularly with thermo-plastic.
I use the one-handed type stripper twice, facing in alternate directions to isolate a 3/4 - 1 inch section of insulation then use a sharp utility knife to slit the insulation and pull it off. Wrap the track feeder drop wires several turns around the bare bus wire. Then solder.

The trick of soldering is to use a clean hot iron with a relatively large tip so as to have plenty of instant heat to transfer to the wire wrapped around the bus. (A soldering 'gun' doesn't work well as it has little heat reservoir.) Tin the iron with a little extra solder for good heat transfer. Let it dwell on the joint for 2-3 seconds to heat it up, then touch the wrapped wire with rosin core solder. It should flow right into the joint. There is no need to add so much solder that it drips...But don't do this over your face either. Wear safety glasses and a heavy shirt just in case.

I added a slanting upright back rest to an auto mechanics creeper that works great for fiddling under the layout.

DonV

I used 8 postition barrier strips centrally located
near groups of feeder wires. bus wire comes to one
side of strip which has 14 gauge wire wrapped from one
post to the other all the way down on that side and
next bus wire leading off either side which allows be
to put up to 14 feeders of each one using lugs. I use
one strip for each polairity and NO soldering at bus
wires involved. Hasn't seemed to detract from the
performance at all. But don't go beyond the 30' limit
for main bus lines. Biggest hassle here is making
sure you have the right feeder wire for the particular
side of the bus. I color coded one feeder wire with
red nail polish and hooked it up to red bus line. My
bus lines are all 14 gauge wire...red and green. It's
a tad more expensive but it's a lot easier to undo a
screw if you make a mistake than trying to unsolder a
bunch of wires looking for the right one. You can
also buy terminal joiners for the barrier strips that
do the same thing as wrapping all the screws on one
side with wire but they cost almost as much as the
barrier strip..safety wise i would think barrier
strips would be the safest way to do it as you don't
have bare hot wires where you can get zapped....just
an idea...hope it helps....if you need more detail
email me at zekda99@...

mt
--- Ken <kenkal@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Forgot to answer this part:
The trick is to NOT put your face under the solder
connection. Or
legs. or arms. or fingers. or whatever. Just keep
your self off to
the side a little bit and your arms near parallel with
the connection
to be soldered so that if solder does drop, it falls
to the floor.
Ken

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry Goodwin"
<jerrygoodwin@y...> wrote:

.> And how do you avoid dripping hot solder on your

face?

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Forgot to answer this part:
The trick is to NOT put your face under the solder connection. Or
legs. or arms. or fingers. or whatever. Just keep your self off to
the side a little bit and your arms near parallel with the connection
to be soldered so that if solder does drop, it falls to the floor.
Ken

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry Goodwin"
<jerrygoodwin@y...> wrote:

.> And how do you avoid dripping hot solder on your face?

I would like to stop getting email messages that there is a message on
the message board. I would like to unjoin. The link that is available
is not an active link. Please advise me how I can do it.
Thanks,
Gene

1. I use wire strippers to pull the bus wire insulation apart,wrap the
feeder wire tightly around the bus wire, and solder.
2. Don't us the old type wire strippers that require you to hold one
wire with one hand and pull the insulation away with the wire
strippers. Newer strippers that are really not costly at all -- $5 to
15 or so -- do a perfect job. Look for the wire strippers that allow
basically one handed operation. You just put the stripper over the
wire and squeeze. One side grips the insulation and hold, the other
side cuts automatically to the size of the wire (doesn't even nick the
wire) and pulls the insulation back about 1/2" to 1" or so. If you
need more than that space just reposition and squeeze again. It's
soooo simple to do this way. They work perfectly on twisted wires as
well. These strippers are available at most hardware and supply stores
like Menard's, Lowe's, etc. If you need more info let me know.
Ken
--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry Goodwin"
<jerrygoodwin@y...> wrote:

How do you connect the feeder wire to the bus?

If you solder it, how do you strip the insulation from the bus in the
middle of a stretch of wire without cutting the wire?

And how do you avoid dripping hot solder on your face?

Hi
I have used scotchlok blocks a form of insulation displcement connector.
No soldering,no stripping just a pair of pliers. You can also get them with
a spade receptical such that you can break the connection if you wish. These
are available from express models. Have a look on their
website.......
t.html

Regards.....john